Partial Mash/Steep Question

[ike8228]

So my next brew will be a step towards going grain. I have done plenty of extract brews with and without steeping grains. My next batch I’m planning on doing a Honey Belgian Wit Saison Triple (LoL bunch of miscellaneous stuff left over combine with new additions and Mangrove Belgian yeast). I plan to use 3lbs of 2 row, 1 lb of flakes wheat and 1lb of Vienna. I’ve used Vienna before in a Saison and it was only steep. One of my questions is; can I add them to my mash (I’ve read you aren’t supposed to mash steeping grain) or should I steep them after mashing? Second question is do I mix the grains all together so the wheat doesn’t muck together or is it supposed to be on top of the 2 row to filter? Third question, I’ve read to do a protein rest at 120-122 first then go to 153-154. What would be the reasoning for the protein rest. Fourth question I have a lb of flaked rice, should I throw that in there for extra points (going for higher abv) or is rice a weird thing for a Belgain?

My recipe is looking like
3 lb 2 row
1 lb Flaked wheat
1 lb Vienna
1 lb Flaked Rice?
3 lb Light DME
2 lb Belgian Candi Syrup
1 lb Wildflower honey
2 oz Hallertau 69 & 15,
1 oz Glacier 15
1 oz Cashmere flameout/stand
Mangrove 31 (I think it was) Belgian yeast with a starter.

Brewer’s Friend puts it at about 1.08 and 8%, but there wasn’t a specific option for the honey or syrup so I just put in sugar.

 

[doug293cz]

All the grains should be mixed together for the mash. You should have enough diastatic power to convert all of the starch in your recipe. Go ahead and throw in the flaked rice. It shouldn't affect flavor, but only add fermentable sugar (after mashing.) Honey will not give quite as much an SG boost as pure sugar, since it has some water in it as well as the sugar. Don't bother with the protein rest, it's not really needed with modern malts.

Brew on

 

[ike8228]

So include the Vienna during mash?

 

[VikeMan]

So include the Vienna during mash?

When you are mashing, all malts and grains can go in the mash, assuming the base malt(s) have enough diastatic power (enzymes) to convert the starches from all of the malts/grains into sugars/dextrins. This in not usually an issue. Also, you can always add Vienna to any mash, because it is technically a base malt and has more than enough enzymes to convert itself.

When you are "steeping," only specialty malts/grains whose starches have already been converted to sugars/dextrins/etc. should be steeped. That basically means caramel/crystal malts and deeply roasted malts/grains.

 

[ike8228]

Thanks. I ask because the only time I have used it, it was used as a steeping step. Not saying that kit was correct, just a reference.

 

[Steveruch]

Thanks. I ask because the only time I have used it, it was used as a steeping step. Not saying that kit was correct, just a reference.

How long did you steep? At what temperature?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

So include the Vienna during mash?

Yes.

 

[ike8228]

It’s been awhile but Brewers Best generalized instructions were always 20mins 150-160 degrees

 

[Steveruch]

It’s been awhile but Brewers Best generalized instructions were always 20mins 150-160 degrees

A large part of what a mash does is done in the first 20-30 minutes. So at 150 or more this would qualify as a short mash.

 

[VikeMan]

A large part of what a mash does is done in the first 20-30 minutes. So at 150 or more this would qualify as a short mash.

This is true. But you can also mash at temps below 150 (lest OP infer that you can't).

 

[doug293cz]

A large part of what a mash does is done in the first 20-30 minutes. So at 150 or more this would qualify as a short mash.

Only if the grains being steeped have some diastatic power (enzymes to convert starch to sugar.) Crystal/caramel malts and roasted malts typically don't have any diastatic power.

Brew on

 

[Steveruch]

Only if the grains being steeped have some diastatic power (enzymes to convert starch to sugar.) Crystal/caramel malts and roasted malts typically don't have any diastatic power.

Brew on

I was referring to post #5 where Ike 8228 said the only time he'd previously used vienna malt the instructions he had treated it like a specialty grain that only needed to be steeped.