Packaging 1st Sour

[Ki-ri-n]

So my sour is ready to package. Should I keg it or bottle?

If I keg-
Can it ever be used for a non-sour beer (granted, I would replace all the seals, and use a dedicated cobra style tap and disconnect)? I do have a keg I could spare. It was a Seven-Up keg, so the top is green and easily identifiable from my "regular" kegs. It would be easier to keg & brew the next sour to add to the slurry left behind on the same day. Bottling might have to much going on for me to juggle a brew day at the same time. The con with this is I could see it "disappearing" faster than bottling it. I suppose, I could bottle from the tap, but I never had really good luck with that method.

If I bottle-
Can I carbonate just using "carbonation drops"? I never really ever bottled before (but I do have a large stash of non-returnable bottles)-went straight to kegging. I'm a little weary about bottling and wasting my 1st sour efforts. I figured I'd use the carbing drops to keep O2 to minimum from making a priming solution and avoid contaminating other equipment (not that it's that big a deal).

 

[RPh_Guy]

I'm assuming your beer has live Brett and/or bacteria (not a kettle sour). Sours are scary not only because the "bugs" involved may spoil other batches, but also because of the microbes' ability to form what is called a biofilm. A biofilm is a colony of microbes attached to a surface and it is quite difficult to fully remove and sanitize.

Here's one article for suggested sanitary practices: https://beerandbrewing.com/the-many-faces-of-brett-best-homebrew-practices/
In short, they recommend to use separate plastic pieces and take extra care to clean and sanitize glass and metal.

To my knowledge no data exist determining whether Brett can actually form a biofilm on glass or plastic, so the extra caution for these materials may or may not really be necessary. Personally I would rather err on the side of caution.

Regarding priming sugar, "carbonation drops" should be fine. However, if you plan to make more mixed sours in the future it might be easier to dedicate a bottling bucket early (unless you feel comfortable bottling directly from the fermenter).
IMHO I would lean toward bottling rather than kegging because it is easier to age in bottles... Brett and/or Pedio may continue to develop character over time.

 

[Ayerate]

Here's an option if you want to bottle and don't feel like you have time to brew your next sour the same day as bottling: Brew your new beer and when it's ready to to put into the fermenter, rack your old beer to a clean bucket and put an airlock on it. Put your new wort into the old bucket with the existing cake, and bottle your other beer the next day or whenever else you have time to do it.

 

[ShareBrewing]

That’s a great idea Ayerate. Honestly though, depending how long it takes you sanitize the bottles, bottling a sour beer doesn’t take very long. With a buddy it’s faster than a standard 5 gal batch because there’s only 20-24 bottles to fill. If planned well, you could do it in 2 hours.

But it does require absolute focus on it, so trying to multi-task that into a brewday might be hectic. I’ve personally never used carbonation tablets/drops but I’d be weary in a sour beer. VERY carefully, I measure out just the right amount of priming sugar to get the desired CO2 vol to 2.5-2.8 (but that’s my preferred range of carbonation). There’s probably a way to measure the amount of sugar you’re adding, but there’s probably some room for error. The microbes used will work over time consuming the remaining sugar and dry it out. A tiny amount of sugar can go a long way.

Best of luck!

 

[Ayerate]

Oh yeah, I know it doesn't take THAT long, but I also understand not wanting to overload yourself with too much stuff to do in one day.

I am curious though, why fewer bottles with a sour? Is it because you're using the bigger champagne type bottles?

 

[ShareBrewing]

I normally use the “standard” 25oz (750mL) cork n’ cage Belgian bottles. Champagne bottles also work.

 

[Ki-ri-n]

Didn't really think of using a secondary for the main batch. Suppose I could go that route but it would mean dedicating another carboy for sours. I was trying to keep O2 intake to a minimum.

I only have 12oz bottles so it will still take just as long.

SB- isn't that kind of a high carb level? You must be adding more than 4oz for a 5 gallon batch-right? I was going to aim for something around 2.0-2.2 to avoid potential bottle bombs (3.16 oz table sugar).

 

[Ayerate]

I wasn't really thinking of it as a secondary so much as an extended stay in the bottling bucket that you would have transferred it to anyway.

 

[jrgtr42]

I have a sour aging as we speak. I will probably use my regular bottling bucket when it's time to bottle - I wash and sanitize before and after every batch, so I'm not so worried about cross contamination. I do have tubing dedicated for sours, since you can't really clean those out so well.
I've done a bunch of sours so far and have had no problems with crossing over.
I do primary fermentation as usual in a regular bucket, and the secondary is in a glass carboy. I have a couple of those for extended aging, and I soak in PBW and hot water after each brew, plus rinsing well.

 

[ShareBrewing]

Ki-ri-n,

Would strongly advise against the regular 12oz bottles where only a cap is used. The cork and cage are quite necessary for good carbonation, in my opinion. My first sour (a delicious Flanders red), I tried using regular 12 oz cap-n-go bottles, along with a more moderate carbonation level of 2.1 vol CO2.... never got a bubble of carbonation in any of em. A real shame. Now it’s probably best used as vinegar... don’t let your first be like mine!

The bigger 750mL Belgian bottles and champagne bottles have thicker glass and can handle the building pressure while the various microbes do their work and consume more sugar over time. Same reason for the cork and the cage to hold it down. I made it a point to buy a floor cork-press. Only cost ~$70 but well worth it and couldn’t be happier. Can now cork my meads too! [emoji106]

Given how long it’s probably been aged, your sour beer may have some active microbes but probably not enough to fully carb to the level you want. So you may want to consider adding 1/2 a packet (~2g or 2.5g) of champagne yeast. These wee beasties are used to a more alcoholic and acidic environment. That said, sour beers often have slightly higher carbonation to help cut or elevate the acidic/fruity flavors in the beer.

 

[RPh_Guy]

From what I've been able to gather from reading --- regular bottles start having problems when you reach 4 volumes CO2.
Gravity should be stable before bottling (for 2-3 months room temp for beers with Brett) and carbonation level can be set with priming sugar only (like any other beer).
If going above 3.5 volumes I'd strongly consider thick (champagne-type) bottles but not really lower than that in my opinion.
If you're going to subject them to more extreme temperatures at any time you'd need to be a little more cautious because of thermal expansion.
EDIT: some sources I see are more conservative and recommend only going up to 3 volumes for regular 12oz bottles.

Your bottles NOT carbing is a completely different issue than carbing too much ...and must have been related to some other issue with your batch or process. Not the bottles themselves.

 

[ShareBrewing]

Not gonna lie, my first batch also didn’t carb up because I didn’t add yeast at bottling. Definitely should’ve adding some simple dried champagne yeast.

That was one of my biggest takeaways from my first sour bottling.

But most sours are supposed to be above 3 vol CO2, according to many of the sources I’ve read, which is why I made the switch to the bigger, corked bottles. The bigger bottles are moreso for peace-of-mind, I guess.

But personally I enjoy something in the 2.5-2.8 vol range. My advice is to go with what you enjoy, and make it to your liking.