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out of curiosity, i'll ask....being that i can now....

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bracconiere

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so, i just taped my last "brown ale"....although it doesn't taste "bad"....it strangley tastes more like a strawberry cider...lol

don't worry i know i did everything wrong, i pitch the same yeast i've been using for over a year, it started out as nottingham...i pitched at 85f....fermented at about the same...

what i threw together was 20lb's pale malt, 1 lb crystal 40L, and 8oz's chocolate malt.....got an OG of 1.073 for a 10 gallon batch....(i was impressed with that!) FG was 1.000


and no i'm not just joking around, i'm curious why sometimes i get fruity beers? i do everything the same batch to batch, but sometimes i get a fruit bomb...i'm thinking the yeast are past their prime and time to pitch fresh....

(yeah i know i could use the search function, but i'm making small talk)
 

Jtvann

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Not sure what your question is since you say you already know you did everything wrong.

are you saying you got strawberry when aiming for brown? Are you reusing the exact same yeast for a year, or are you buying fresh yeast, just the same brand for a year? Do you trust your numbers with OG and FG? That’s both awfully high and low on both ends. The beer would be way high and In ABV for a typical brown ale, and overly dry. I doubt your FG was that low without use of an enzyme. Fermentation temp was high as well. That could throw esters, but you probably know that.

We can give you a hand nailing down problems, but you’ll need to know specific information and keep detailed notes. You need to know a recipe that you’re aiming for. You’ll need to know target gravity for both OG and FG. You’ll need a specific mash temp, as well as knowing your system efficiencies. You should probably get fresh yeast, and be able to control fermentation temps.

I know this is a lot, but without knowing your experience level and base knowledge, I don’t want to either throw too much out there or talk under what you already know.

edit ... Bracconiere. Missed your name when responding to this. You’ve been around here for a very long time. You already know everything I posted.
 

Dgallo

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Why are you pitching yeast and fermenting so hot? Especially time and time again? Lol

sounds like acetaldehyde and oxidation. Will give you sweet and cider like flavors.

I promise I’m not trying to be rude when I say this but you really should revert back to some basic brewing references and actually try to make a beer following general brewing technique and practice. Otherwise, why invest the time

***just read @Jtvann edit and shame on you @bracconiere for trolling lol
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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i appreciate the reply....i'm a lazy brewer, just trying to see if there would be something easy i could change to not get the fruityness.....personally i think it tastes fine, just with this batch i was actually hoping for roasty.....


the reason my OG was that high is that i recently got the tip that i could boil my mash malt and all to do my typical two step 150->162...when i did it with drawing off the first runnings and boiling it only boosted me from 83%, to 90%....but now that i'm not terified of tannins, i just scoop out some of the mash from the MT, and bring that to a boil, knock me up to 95%....and yes i do add gluco to all my beers, being that i'm a calorie counter, gotta make every calorie count!

as a further question, what if i chill the wort down to say 60f in my other fridge overnight, then let it coast back up to 85f, for a still quick fermentation?
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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oxidation. Will give you sweet and cider like flavors.
damn, i didn't mention my fermenters got a leaky seal, and didn't even bubble the whole time....oxidation, will make a fruit bomb too? i've been meaning to get a new fermenter, but someone showed me the sierra nevada open ferment thing, and i've been putting it off.....


and as far as why invest the time? i don't get along with drug dealers......

edit: it really irk's me when they try and get me to call them god, and tell me what to think....so naturally i drink A LOT of homebrew! ;) and yes....that's why this is the only place i've been able to sorta find friends.....
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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let me be clear, i've been brewing 10 gallon batches once a week for 16 years....but i know i suck at fermenting! so i posted this question in begginer's.....

i've always been trying to make the "cheapest" beer posible....i achieved that few years back....and just to keep the sport interesting, i'm trying to actually see how good i can make it "easily"....it's already good enough for me, but hell why not better! as long as it's still cheap and easy!

(and i've seen many a new member get cussed out for asking, "i want something cheap" lol)
 

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I’m brewing 10 gallon batches now and a typical beer rarely ever costs me less than 40 dollars just for ingredients. I’m going to over exaggerate and say it only costs 30 dollars.

30x52x10 Is 40 bucks shy of 25k

my advise is to finally suck it up and spend a few dollars on temp control or quit trolling.
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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quit trolling.

small talk man, small talk......that's all.... i can brew a 10g batch for $8....but people don't like hearing that....and i allready have 3 fridges, one for my kegs, one for food...and another one i just don't like plugging in....

but back on what i was asking, and got new info on, what would be a bigger problem to cause a fruit bomb....hot ferment or oxidation? i could always do more cheap cider's to keep the taps running, and let the wort ferment at 65f in the fridge....the hot fermented cider's taste fine.....


and on a side note, if it was oxidation, would dark malt be more prone to it?
 

Jtvann

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6,650. My original post stands. You’ve been here long enough to know these base questions you’re asking. You know they’re both an issue you’re consciously screwing up 800 some times. Either that or you love exaggerating
 

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I’m more interested in the fact you’ve been using the same Notty for a yesr. How many batches do you think its been through?
I’ve had a few badly oxidized batches. Fruity is not what I would call the taste. Stale cardboard is a better descriptor IMO. Curious to hear other thoughts on this.
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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You’ve been here long enough to know these base questions you’re asking. You know they’re both an issue you’re consciously screwing up 800 some times
i've also been here long enough to know when it's getting slow, i haven't seen one question about a "fruit bomb", in the years i've been posting....

and on the note of screwing up, my batch before this one, was 100% pale....i could tell it was warm fermented, but it's wasn't a fruit bomb..so does warm and or oxidation effect dark grain more?

I’m more interested in the fact you’ve been using the same Notty for a yesr. How many batches do you think its been through?
I’ve had a few badly oxidized batches. Fruity is not what I would call the taste. Stale cardboard is a better descriptor IMO. Curious to hear other thoughts on this.
about 50 batches a year, then it starts getting tired....and back at you did your stale cardboard have any roast malt?
 

Dinadan

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let me be clear, i've been brewing 10 gallon batches once a week for 16 years....but i know i suck at fermenting! so i posted this question in begginer's.....
Somehow I suspect that getting rid of ten gallons of so-so beer might not be as much of a problem for you as for some folks. Sometimes the off flavor grows on me (not literally, usually) and by the time I finish five gallons I am okay with it. Actually, I have wondered if the same thing happened to some of the folks who brew commercial beer...maybe they had a bad batch and had to drink it themselves and by the time they finished the barrel they thought it was good, and so created a new style. My wife bought me a six pack of Sierra Nevada Octoberfest yesterday. That is kind of how I feel about it. Of course I am going to drink it all anyway...I would not want to hurt her feelings!

Oh yes: I do not have a clue why your beer tastes like strawberry cider!
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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Oh yes: I do have a clue why your beer tastes like strawberry cider!

do you think it's oxidation of the 8oz's of chocolate malt? well i'm going to brew, hopefully tomorrow, with wine yeast, they say it's fine up to ~86f......got a 500g brick of the stuff, so i might refresh every 6 months or so, instead of every year or two......

it'd be interesting if wine yeast made FOR fruit, keeps my beer from getting fruity....cuz' ALE yeast ain't doin it.....
 
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bracconiere

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I am way too much of a novice to diagnose your brewing problem.

that's alright....i thought mac & cheese came out of a box, until i was hanging around someone that actually knew how to cook, and tought me about bachemle sauces.....which is why i'm asking about my fruit problem......


and @Jtvann i've actually tried temp controll many years ago, didn't seem to make a difference, so i didn't stick with it....now i'm wondering if maybe oxidation is the real culprit.....
 

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about 50 batches a year, then it starts getting tired
Thats awesome. Thats way more than I would have guessed. I thought by the 10th batch it would be pretty tired.

....and back at you did your stale cardboard have any roast malt?
Unfortunately I can’t help on this topic as I brew extract. Occasionally mini mash but thats fairly rare. Of the times ai’ve used darker extracts or roasted malts I don’t remember having a particular issue with oxidation save one Red ale I made that had many other factors going on. Turned out somewhat oxidized but really damn drinkable
 

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and @Jtvann i've actually tried temp controll many years ago, didn't seem to make a difference, so i didn't stick with it....now i'm wondering if maybe oxidation is the real culprit.....
I think the only way to be sure is to unleash some science on your problem. It sounds to me like you've got a low level oxidation problem because you're tasting fruity flavors from the red side of the flavor spectrum. To be certain that it really is oxidation, I think you need to rig a cheap aquarium pump to deliver a steady stream of oxygen to your wort throughout the fermentation process. Naturally, you're going to need some kind of diffusion stone, but those are expensive. Use some foam instead. Just stuff it in the tube that comes out of the business end of the pump. Now, that foam is going to make that tube full of air really light, so you're going to have to weigh that puppy down, I think fishing weights will be your friend. Just tie on as many sinkers as you need to get that tube right down on the bottom of your fermenter, then fire that pump up. If that's too fancy, you can always just use a bicycle pump a few times a day. But, believe me, that gets old fast. You'll thank me once you get your aquarium rig rolling.

Okay, so to this point you've been tasting the low frequency wavelength fruits like strawberry, probably some cherry and red apple, too. Now, when you get your oxygenation rig up and blowing, you should notice right away that you start tasting some of the orange spectrum fruits like oranges, and tangerines and peaches. That means it's working. A few days later you'll start picking up some medium wavelength flavors like lemon and banana. Stick with it, you're hurtling toward scientific facts! Toward the end of fermentation you should start to pick up some really energetic fruit wavelengths like limes, blueberries, and wild blue cherry koolaid berries.

Once you start tasting those high-energy blue colored fruits, you can be certain you have an oxygen problem.

I hope you found this helpful.
 
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bracconiere

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sounds like you need to post in the advanced threads....

 

seatazzz

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Bracc, I love your posts and replies...never thought I'd see you here!

I've had the same issue, with a lager yeast (I think it was S23) that apparently didn't want to go past 4 generations of slurry. Technically a good beer, but a strawberry bomb with no fruit added. I finished the keg, but under protest. The "strawberry" flavor/aroma never faded, either.

From a science standpoint, more than likely your yeast mutated (or heaven forbid, a wild yeast got into it) into something different; if you got no other "off" flavors other than that strawberry, it makes sense that your yeast threw that as an ester. I'm not a huge fan of washing yeast (I have better things to do with my time) but that may help. Just my 2 cents.
 
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bracconiere

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Bracc, I love your posts and replies...never thought I'd see you here!

I've had the same issue, with a lager yeast (I think it was S23) that apparently didn't want to go past 4 generations of slurry. Technically a good beer, but a strawberry bomb with no fruit added. I finished the keg, but under protest. The "strawberry" flavor/aroma never faded, either.

From a science standpoint, more than likely your yeast mutated (or heaven forbid, a wild yeast got into it) into something different; if you got no other "off" flavors other than that strawberry, it makes sense that your yeast threw that as an ester. I'm not a huge fan of washing yeast (I have better things to do with my time) but that may help. Just my 2 cents.

i apreciate the serious reply to my serious question!

(unlike that last one about using lead weights to sweeten it, and a bicycle pump... :D)

yeah, i'm thinking yeast maybe, and that comment about oxidation got me thinking, maybe o2, and the chocolate malt...i've only brewed 21 batches this year, been getting lazy and just buying cheap apple juice....so haven't used my recently leaky fermenters with anything dark in the bill.....


and i too have made lagers with very stringent 'temp control' and they were fruit bombs too! :mug:

edit: you remember the recipe? any caramel malts or anything?
 

Beermeister32

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Go buy yourself a digital temp controller to run one of your refrigerators as a fermentation chamber. Pitch a few degrees cooler than the low end of the recommemded temp range for the yeast you are using, and let it rise a few degrees to the lower end of the temp range and hold it there. You are currently fermenting too hot, it is throwing off weird esters.
 

seatazzz

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i apreciate the serious reply to my serious question!

(unlike that last one about using lead weights to sweeten it, and a bicycle pump... :D)

yeah, i'm thinking yeast maybe, and that comment about oxidation got me thinking, maybe o2, and the chocolate malt...i've only brewed 21 batches this year, been getting lazy and just buying cheap apple juice....so haven't used my recently leaky fermenters with anything dark in the bill.....


and i too have made lagers with very stringent 'temp control' and they were fruit bombs too! :mug:

edit: you remember the recipe? any caramel malts or anything?
From what I remember it was just 80/20 pilsner and two row, which is my go-to grain bill for my lager. Hops were cascade and crystal, bittering & late. Didn't have any fresh yeast so I used some S-23 that had already gone three generations with no issues, guess it had just had enough!

*edit* For the record this one was fermented warm (64-66) as almost all my lagers are, with temp control.
 

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i appreciate the reply....i'm a lazy brewer, just trying to see if there would be something easy i could change to not get the fruityness.....personally i think it tastes fine, just with this batch i was actually hoping for roasty.....


the reason my OG was that high is that i recently got the tip that i could boil my mash malt and all to do my typical two step 150->162...when i did it with drawing off the first runnings and boiling it only boosted me from 83%, to 90%....but now that i'm not terified of tannins, i just scoop out some of the mash from the MT, and bring that to a boil, knock me up to 95%....and yes i do add gluco to all my beers, being that i'm a calorie counter, gotta make every calorie count!

as a further question, what if i chill the wort down to say 60f in my other fridge overnight, then let it coast back up to 85f, for a still quick fermentation?
Clean the hell out of your equipment (everything), new yeast, and lower fermentation temperature.
 

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If I'm being lazy and I don't want to worry about fermentation Temps, pitching rates, and want a fast ferment, I would use a clean kveik yeast. That could also deal with cidery flavors which are associated with high Temps and OG.
 
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i apreciate the serious reply to my serious question!
Nothing in my experience confirms your guess about chocolate malt going especially fruity 'cuz of oxygen, compared to pale. My limited experience with high-temp fermentation only tells me that lower temps reduce flavor surprises. But strawberry? I can see why you'd ask.

I'm with Seatazz on yeast (mutated? co-conspirators with some other critters?) as the likeliest source of unexpected fruity flavors. I also enjoy your posts way more than the average here.

I wonder whether your brick of wine yeast might also do something odd and interesting after a year of "lazy brewer" batches.

Science? Seems like your brewing is way more an art form. Cheers!
 

Beermeister32

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I think bracconiere is jerking our chains today:

1. pitch the same yeast i've been using for over a year

2. pitched at 85f

3. Fermented about the same (85F)

4. i just scoop out some of the mash from the MT, and bring that to a boil, knock me up to 95%

5. fermenters got a leaky seal

6. brewing 10 gallon batches once a week for 16 years

7. brew a 10g batch for $8

Very funny!
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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Hops were cascade
hmmm, that's what ive been using recently...haven't really liked them as much as my usual chinook, or Zeus....bravo, or any high AA bittering hops i use as my go to...

Science? Seems like your brewing is way more an art form. Cheers!
kinda like my diet, i'm anolog, food is analog, but i have to run it all through a DAC...

:mug:

I'm with Seatazz on yeast (mutated? co-conspirators with some other critters?)
very possible....i do use a pyrex (clean, not sanitized) measuring cup to scoop the yeast cake into tuperware, and through that in the fridge till next batch...usually works fine though...but did notice my last few batches the yeast cake was loose....normally it's compacted pretty tight....

well, going along with both you and seatazz, maybe if the wine yeast works....i'll start pitching fresh after only 4 batches with it...that would be about a year and half for a 500g brick that costs $30....
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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I think bracconiere is jerking our chains today:

1. pitch the same yeast i've been using for over a year

2. pitched at 85f

3. Fermented about the same (85F)

4. i just scoop out some of the mash from the MT, and bring that to a boil, knock me up to 95%

5. fermenters got a leaky seal

6. brewing 10 gallon batches once a week for 16 years

7. brew a 10g batch for $8

Very funny!


LOL, i'm glad you find amusement from my life! :) :mug:
 

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I believe wine yeast don't work well with maltose. If your using enzyme I don't know if that would be an issue
 
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bracconiere

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Digital meaning, er, the calorie counting thing (and a digital scale) before eating? or does it get digitized, um, later?

i got a gram scale, a 25lb scale....and 3500 calories is a pound of weight, in my experience it takes about 7 calories more a day to maintain a extra pound of weight, be it fat OR muscle......but you can imagine with numbers that tight the "~" sign comes into play a lot.....
 
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bracconiere

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I believe wine yeast don't work well with maltose. If your using enzyme I don't know if that would be an issue
maltose or maltiose(sp?) sorry if that makes it seem like i'm joking again.....i swear their two different things! :mug: (hmm, and thanks for the tip, and yeah i think the gluco would make a friendly place for the S. baynus...)


edit: i'm brewing pretty much the exact same recipe today. Just only had 14oz's of the 40L though....the only thing i'm doing differently is i'm going to pitch fresh wine yeast, thinking 28g's for a 10 gallon batch should do it.....
 
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bracconiere

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It it has to get digitized, you probably need more fiber and hydration in your diet.

fiber is a tough one, they say you need 38g's a day, but even when i was eating beans lunch and dinner, had a tough time getting even 30.....so i figured good enough and threw a "~" on it....and after the first 4-5 beers of the day my urine is clear, and odorless, so i think i'm good on hydration too!
 
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bracconiere

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This is why session beers were invented..for hydration.

if i'm getting 10% ABV now, so my old 8% would be a session brew now right? ;)


(this is off topic now though.....i need to post a new thread to try and remember who made gravitity points seem so simple....and i stress "seem" because i'm still trying to wrap my head around....but damn it sure did SEEM simple, over sparged trying to figure out how much effec i lost with what wouldn't fit in the pot....)
 
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bracconiere

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Its all gravity points. 6.5 gal at 1.030 pre-boil = 6.5 x 30 = 195 total gravity points in the brew. 195 / 5 gallons suggests this would be 1.039 when boiled down to 5 gallons.
something like that should be a sticky in beginner's forum....i just had to reference it to figure i'll get 1.078 from my 14 gallons at 1.040 at 138f.......boiled down to 10 gallons....
 
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my god i don't even know how that slipped out....


but anyway i did patch up the seal on the fermenter with plumbers putty......if you want pictures to prove it happened, to dis prove @Beermeister32 , i'll hank lid off with no fear of o2, and take a pic! is there a bigger grin then big bgrin i can use an emoji for....win or lose i'm excited for my wine yeast brew! some people take this stuff seriously and win ribbons, i just want to have a good time!


and i swear even though, this "not brown ale" tastes like strawberry, it's making me happy......if i had the right marketeking team, ahh damn, it's bed time, i don't want to go further with this post....might embares myself or something.....
 
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bracconiere

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I believe wine yeast don't work well with maltose. If your using enzyme I don't know if that would be an issue

just to put the debate about wine yeast to rest....judging from the air lock, yeah i patched up the seal with some plumbers putty, wine yeast like maltose A LOT! not as much krausen, but damn, it be bubbling so fast, it'd crash a digital bubble counter! lol

edit: i should post in feedback, that i want to be able to give my own posts a "haha", when i'm soberish in the mornings!
 
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