Flavor and aroma loss - I can not figure out why this keeps happening!

[MaltAndMayhem]

I have been brewing about a NEIPA every second month for a year now, trying to dial in different recipes and get them just right but I keep struggling with a recurring loss of flavor or aroma. The flavor is there but it is way muted and the sample I pull from the fermenter is always way fresher than what comes into the glass after kegging. I feel like Ahab and the perfect NEIPA is my white whale. It consumes me to the point where I lie next to my lovely lady sans clothes and still can't think of nothing else than what I am doing wrong with these neipas.

I'm going to give as detailed explanation on my process as humanely possible.

Beer recipe

The beer recipe has been varied but most of the time it is 80% pilsner and 20% flaked oats to an OG of 1.077 and an expected FG of 1.015,(46 liters / 12,15 gallons) I realize oats carries a risk of oxidation. Fermented with Verdant IPA and I usually add no hops in boil, just whirlpool with about a 200g (7 oz) at 75 deg celsius for 60 minutes and add two dry hop charges at day 0(8 oz / 250g when pitching yeast) and 9 oz at day 7.
Hit all my numbers. The hops used were Galaxy(regular), Idaho 7(regular) and Mosaic(Lupomax).
Water adjusted to Ca: 62, Mg: 8, Na: 11, Cl 110, So4: 79, HCO3: 2 1.5:1 cl to sulfite on last batch. Often I do 2:1 instead, but I went down a bit on this one.


Process

I use a SS Brew Tech unitank. I clean it thoroughly before hand. All ports except guage and blow off are removed and washed in dish washer. Then mounted back on. Hot water with PBW are circulated for minimum 30 minutes before rinsing out with HOT water. Then room temperated StarSan is added.

I mash, sparge and boil on a three vessel HERMS setup. After whirlpool I pump all the wort into the empty Unitank. I pitch hops and yeast together.

Fermentation process

The yeast get active pretty early and starts fermenting. I do not pressure the tank and let the fermentor blow off as normal. When fermentation is done(low activity in blow off) after seven days I pressurize the tank through the carb stone to about 8 psi. I use a SodaStream bottle to pressurize. Then I lowered the temperature to 10 deg c(50 fahrenheit). I add a sanitized 3" sight glass on top of the tank(over a 3" butterfly valve) and a lid with ball locks on top of this. I close all clamps and pressurize the sight glass with co2 and purge it 5-6 times. Then I add the hops to the depressurized chamber and purge it three more times with the hops in it. I then open the valve slightly so that the co2 from the tank helps purge the sight glass(I release gas). Then I drop the hops in. I figure this process should eliminate any possibility of getting oxygen into the system?

I let the hops sit on the beer for 5-6 days before cold crashing.


Kegging process

I use a Brewtools inline filter when kegging. I put the filter together and dip it into StarSan(all parts lie in starsan while I assemble). Then I put co2 through the filter and move the filter to the upper valve of the unitank. I press it into and remove it a few times to pressurize and purge the filter and valve tip for air. Then I screw the clamp on securing the filter in place. Then I purge the filter 5-6 more times through the pressure relief valve on the inline filter.

Prior to this I have two kegs filled to the brim with StarSan. I purge them by pushing out all the StarSan using Co2. Then I open them and add 2g of Campden Powder to prevent oxidation. I seal them shut again and pressurize and purge 3-4 times. (Often I leave them over night and repurge them in the morning).

Then I put the kegs onto the inline filter, open the valve and the kegs start filling. I use a spunding valve on the keg and spund them at about 12 psi. I use the SodaStream co2 bottles on the blow off valve of the unitank to push the beer out of the fermenter into the keg. When a keg is full I disconnect it and connect the other.



Aftermath

After the kegs are filled I purge them a few more times and put them in the kegerators. They taste good but there is not much of that "in your face" hop aroma. They look good - nice and yellow even two months later but the taste and aroma is muted. What could this come from? I feel that my process here is pretty solid and that oxygen pickup should be minimal...


Possible culprits

The Soda-Stream bottles
The Soda Stream bottle are a possible culprit. Could they contain miniscule amounts of O2? Even though I use both Ascorbic Acid during mash and Campden Powder during kegging they could still be taking up oxygen?

The Brewtools Filter
Could the Brewtools Inline Filter contain enough oxygen to oxidize the neipa even though it is purged 4-5 times, and even has had running co2 on it while being connected?

Old hops
I've used hops from my local homebrew store. But this last round I used Lupomax Mosaic in it too. Should produce very, very dank tones.

Too much hops
This study suggests that there is a saturation window where the added hops (past 7g / liter) is not beneficial and can mute aroma in that the product becomes saturated by the other oils in the hop and therefore does not take in the aroma of the subsequent dry hop charge.

Cold keezer
The keezer has a myriad of beers in it. Pilsner etc that I prefer to keep cold. The keezer holds 2.5 deg c / 36 deg f, and thus the beer is quite cold. A Neipa should be served at no less than 44 deg f / 6.6 deg c. Could this be the culprit? I tried leaving a glass out and allowing it to heat up - the aroma is slightly stronger but not much.

Dirty lines
It's been a while since I cleaned the line this beer is on. Could dirty lines muddle aroma that much? Note: I did use a picnic tap to tap directly from the keg - same muted aroma then.

Pressurizing fermenter and spunding kegs
Could the problem be the fact that I usually ferment under pressure?
On this last batch I pressurized it after it was done fermenting and then added new hops. Could this be the problem? Pressurizing the fermenter will demand that I also spund the kegs when I fill them, and thus more aroma will disappear? I also imagine that when the beer is pressurized and then transferred to a keg - it will foam and splash more during transfer to kegs which will then in turn allow more aroma to disappear?
I read somewhere that several breweries ferment their NEIPAs in unitanks without pressure. However, no pressure during the stay in the Unitank means I risk getting oxygen suck back when cold crashing - so that means that a cold crash is also hard to achieve without oxygen ingress..



What do you think? Any other suggestions?

 

[pvtpublic]

How long after pitching are you drinking? Hazies aren't fresh for very long. You would want to be drinking it in 2 weeks, and consume them rather quickly. As yeast and other particulates drop out of solution, they bring the polyphenols of the hops with them, degrading the hop profile. Cold crashing will speed up this process, try slowly dropping the temp, and do it under pressure so that you dont have any air ingress.

Another thing that might be an issue is purging too much. Pushing all of that co2 out is driving out your aromatics. It smells great when you're blowing off all the pressure, right? Well, that's all of your aromatics leaving your beer. Don't purge before dumping hops in, remember the yeast has already purged your headspace from fermentation. And really, once or twice would be enough.

 

[DBhomebrew]

 

[Bassman2003]

Your are letting oxygen in somewhere in your post fermentation process. Can you actually use the SS Brewtech as a Unitank? That would solve all of your problems. No transfer to introduce oxygen.

One thing that jumped out at me was your keg prep. I would say once you fill with sanitizer and push the sanitizer out of the keg, it should never be opened. Any kind of spurting out of the PRV is not effective compared to the liquid purge. I know it is difficult but that is the oxygen game.

 

[MaltAndMayhem]

Your are letting oxygen in somewhere in your post fermentation process. Can you actually use the SS Brewtech as a Unitank? That would solve all of your problems. No transfer to introduce oxygen.

One thing that jumped out at me was your keg prep. I would say once you fill with sanitizer and push the sanitizer out of the keg, it should never be opened. Any kind of spurting out of the PRV is not effective compared to the liquid purge. I know it is difficult but that is the oxygen game.

I figured the added benefit of the campden powder would outweigh this...

 

[MaltAndMayhem]

How long after pitching are you drinking? Hazies aren't fresh for very long. You would want to be drinking it in 2 weeks, and consume them rather quickly. As yeast and other particulates drop out of solution, they bring the polyphenols of the hops with them, degrading the hop profile. Cold crashing will speed up this process, try slowly dropping the temp, and do it under pressure so that you dont have any air ingress.

Another thing that might be an issue is purging too much. Pushing all of that co2 out is driving out your aromatics. It smells great when you're blowing off all the pressure, right? Well, that's all of your aromatics leaving your beer. Don't purge before dumping hops in, remember the yeast has already purged your headspace from fermentation. And really, once or twice would be enough.

Tbh I never purge the tank directly. Only slightly during the second hop drop...

I however purge/spund the kegs so naturally a lot of aroma disappear there...

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Too much hops
This study suggests that there is a saturation window where the added hops (past 7g / liter) is not beneficial and can mute aroma in that the product becomes saturated by the other oils in the hop and therefore does not take in the aroma of the subsequent dry hop charge.

I would not apply much from a study based on adding Cascade hops to a sub 5% Pale Ale style beer. My goal with NEIPAs is not the super hop saturated versions that are popular with some breweries, and I use a little more hops than your recipe. For 5.5 gals of wort, I have been using 6 oz in the whirlpool and 6 to 8 oz in the dry hop. While I think you should get a solid punch of hop flavors and aromas from the amount used, you could go higher, especially on the dry hop.

How are you adding your dry hops? Are they going in loose? Do you ever dump them out? The trend with dry hopping NEIPAs seems to be moving toward adding them for a day or two at the end of fermentation, often at a lower temperature.

You could potentially add the Campden with your last dry hop charge. I am not 100% sure of the impact. I have played with adding some Campden or Ascorbic Acid with my dry hops. Or just skip adding it.

 

[MaltAndMayhem]

I would not apply much from a study based on adding Cascade hops to a sub 5% Pale Ale style beer. My goal with NEIPAs is not the super hop saturated versions that are popular with some breweries, and I use a little more hops than your recipe. For 5.5 gals of wort, I have been using 6 oz in the whirlpool and 6 to 8 oz in the dry hop. While I think you should get a solid punch of hop flavors and aromas from the amount used, you could go higher, especially on the dry hop.

How are you adding your dry hops? Are they going in loose? Do you ever dump them out? The trend with dry hopping NEIPAs seems to be moving toward adding them for a day or two at the end of fermentation, often at a lower temperature.

You could potentially add the Campden with your last dry hop charge. I am not 100% sure of the impact. I have played with adding some Campden or Ascorbic Acid with my dry hops. Or just skip adding it.

They go in loose. I dump trub/hops before kegging, so as to not clog the valves of the unitank when kegging.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

It's a fact that chlorine or chloramine in your brewing water will mute hop flavor and aroma. I would start there. In my experience, oxidation will darken pale-colored beers, which would be a sure sign it is muting your hops. The other thing to try is whirlpooling, aroma hopping in the boil, and then dry hopping a day or two after pitching your yeast. Lastly, increase the amount of hops used.

 

[MaltAndMayhem]

It's a fact that chlorine or chloramine in your brewing water will mute hop flavor and aroma. I would start there. In my experience, oxidation will darken pale-colored beers, which would be a sure sign it is muting your hops. The other thing to try is whirlpooling, aroma hopping in the boil, and then dry hopping a day or two after pitching your yeast. Lastly, increase the amount of hops used.

How do I check for chlorine?

 

[Bassman2003]

Get ahold of your water report. The campden is best used in your strike water. Aroma is all about oxygen mitigation. Once I focused on limiting oxygen on the hot and cold side, the aroma in my beers went through the roof. For hoppy beers, adding CO2 at fermentation for a pressurized fermentation really amplifies hop aroma and flavor as well.

 

[wdavis2003]

I however purge/spund the kegs so naturally a lot of aroma disappear there..

I'd say this is where a lot of it is being lost. Especially once you pull the beer off the hops you won't get that in your face aroma as you had in the fermenter. I'd also suggest adding ascorbic acid to your process somewhere. Seems to keep my NEIPA's fresher much longer then before.

 

[MaltAndMayhem]

Get ahold of your water report. The campden is best used in your strike water. Aroma is all about oxygen mitigation. Once I focused on limiting oxygen on the hot and cold side, the aroma in my beers went through the roof. For hoppy beers, adding CO2 at fermentation for a pressurized fermentation really amplifies hop aroma and flavor as well.

What type of setup do you use? Do you ferment under pressure all the way?

 

[MaltAndMayhem]

I'd say this is where a lot of it is being lost. Especially once you pull the beer off the hops you won't get that in your face aroma as you had in the fermenter. I'd also suggest adding ascorbic acid to your process somewhere. Seems to keep my NEIPA's fresher much longer then before.

I use it at mash.

So how can I fill kegs without spunding?

 

[Bassman2003]

I ferment in a Kegmenter, spund in the fermenter to carbonate then transfer the beer under pressure to an already purged keg. You can also transfer the beer a little early and spund in the keg. But the important part is that everything stays sealed. I do not brew heavy hopped beers other than WCIPA. When I dry hop I use magnets to hold the hop bag above the fermentation then drop the bag after everything is completed.

I will say - dry hopping and sealed systems is difficult. Keeping oxygen out is way easier when you are not dry hopping.

 

[Broken Crow]

If you open your keg, you let in air...period. It is a complete myth that you can just purge it by compressing and pulling on the PRV... The moment the CO2 blows in, it mixes the air in. (Personally, I rely on CO2 filled bubbles in Star San, pushed in from the lower liquid post to maximize bubbling, just to push that last 10th oz. or so of air under the part of the corny lid that I can't get fully submerged, to the PRV while star san is let to run out the top when filling)
It sounds like you know how to fully purge your lines, so if you haven't done so yet; Elevate your unitank so you can loop your gas-out back up it rather than using gravity rather than a spunding valve and blowing your aroma away.

 

[hottpeper13]

Take a picture of the beer when fresh,then one when it has the muted taste. Is it more brown then pale? If so you have oxidation.
You said that the beer gose thru a filter purged with CO2. All the instructions I've seen state to push deairated sterile water thru. Filters have micro pours that can trap O2.
On another note,What are you filtering for?

 

[scogan]

I am no expert but get the impression that the hop flavours/aromas are so sensitive to oxidation you could quite easily suffer from that without your beer darkening which is a more extreme consequence.I have transferred conditioned beer to another keg containing hops that had been purged by pulling the prv a dozen times or so ,and seen the immense hop flavour fade 3d later .I am currently fermenting and serving in the same keg which is pretty good.I am going to transfer the last gallon to a keg with more hops which was purged by active fermentation which looks the be the ideal way as far as residual co2 charts show, it will be interesting to see what happens .

 

[mac_1103]

It is a complete myth that you can just purge it by compressing and pulling on the PRV...

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but why can't you purge by filling with CO2 and venting? I mean, you have to repeat something like 30 times to get all the oxygen out, but it can be done.

 

[day_trippr]

So much CO2 would be needed to truly purge a keg down to reasonable O2 ppb numbers it's certainly nothing I'd ever recommend...

Cheers!

 

[mac_1103]

So much CO2 would be needed to truly purge a keg down to reasonable O2 ppb numbers it's certainly nothing I'd ever recommend...

Well sure, but that's a bit different than saying it's a complete myth that you can purge a keg with gas. People have posted charts showing O2 ppb after x purging cycles at y psi on this very forum.

 

[Bassman2003]

It is a myth in practice outside of hooking the keg up to your fermentation off-gas. Then plenty of CO2 goes out to properly purge kegs.

You can purge with bottled CO2 and pull the PRV e few times etc... It just will not get all of the oxygen out that one really needs for it not to have an impact on the beer. Advice - Don't resist the oxygen battle! It is a lot more difficult than many want to take part in. Pro breweries measure down to the parts per billion. We are just trying to do the best we can at the home level.

 

[mac_1103]

It just will not get all of the oxygen out that one really needs for it not to have an impact on the beer.

30 cycles at 30 psi will get you down to <1 ppb. I'm not arguing that it isn't clearly cheaper and easier to purge with fermentation gas, only that it's wrong to say that it isn't possible.

 

[Bassman2003]

I am not sure how long your cycles are and how much CO2 gets moved per cycle. But the overall point is that a sanitizer purge with CO2 or a fermentation purge are the best options. It is kind of a quest to get the dogma of pulling the PRV out of the homebrew world. It is just not the best approach and it was taught as the only approach for a long time...

 

[Broken Crow]

This:

So much CO2 would be needed to truly purge a keg down to reasonable O2 ppb numbers it's certainly nothing I'd ever recommend...

..and this:

I am not sure how long your cycles are and how much CO2 gets moved per cycle. But the overall point is that a sanitizer purge with CO2 or a fermentation purge are the best options. It is kind of a quest to get the dogma of pulling the PRV out of the homebrew world. It is just not the best approach and it was taught as the only approach for a long time...

If it were in any way practical, I'd get myself a tank that I could submerge my entire corny in, tall enough that I could turn the lid upside-down and get that last tiny bubble out before clamping the lid down...as it is, I routinely use nearly six gallons of Star San, as I let it run out the top while I submerge as much of the lid as possible and just plain hope the the CO2 filled Star San bubbles I follow it with are enough to get that last bit of air to the PRV.

 

[mac_1103]

I am not sure how long your cycles are and how much CO2 gets moved per cycle.

My understanding is that doesn't matter how long the cycle is. What matters is that you apply 30 PSI and then pull the prv until it stops venting, and then repeat 30 times. Yeah it's more work and it's wasteful of bottled CO2, but do you really think that no one ever finds themselves in need of a keg when they don't happen to have a purged one lying around or an active fermentation in progress?

It is kind of a quest to get the dogma of pulling the PRV out of the homebrew world. It is just not the best approach and it was taught as the only approach for a long time...

I certainly get that lots of people used to do it wrong and thought they were doing it right, but it's not hard to find out how to actually do it right. It's all over this forum for example. I could be wrong, but I think you might be fighting a war that was won a long time ago.

 

[Bassman2003]

Since you are still speaking of the process, it is not dead yet. If one is in need of a keg, why is sanitizer purging not an option as opposed to filing the thing over and over with bottled CO2? The time outlay is similar right? Plus you probably need to sanitize it anyway. Back when I was learning about kegging, the thought did not go that deep about gas laws and mixing. It was open the lid, put your beer in and do two to five spurts and you are good to go. The problem about dogma is that it often gets translated incorrectly down the line. So your example of actually filling the keg to 30 PSI and emptying 30 times gets watered down to who knows what for convenience. Then the cycle goes on and on...

The over arching theme here is that the two newer processes create an oxygen free environment where the PRV method tries to evacuate or extract CO2 out of the environment. I just think it is best to leave the old method in the dust.

 

[Spivey24]

This:

..and this:

If it were in any way practical, I'd get myself a tank that I could submerge my entire corny in, tall enough that I could turn the lid upside-down and get that last tiny bubble out before clamping the lid down...as it is, I routinely use nearly six gallons of Star San, as I let it run out the top while I submerge as much of the lid as possible and just plain hope the the CO2 filled Star San bubbles I follow it with are enough to get that last bit of air to the PRV.

I utilize an old spare keg filled with starsan and pressurized that I just keep around. I also have a keg to keg jumper hose (liquid to gas). This could be used to push the last bit of air out of the keg that is being purged through the PRV.

Though I do like your idea of a huge barrel of starsan that you just dunk the keg in and seal. Maybe one of those 50 gallon plastic barrels.

 

[Broken Crow]

I'll say right now that I have believed in a few myths myself and just had one of my own superstitions busted in another thread, but for me, half the point of these discussions is so I can learn better... That said, there was a thread a while ago which I think you were thinking of here;

People have posted charts showing O2 ppb after x purging cycles at y psi on this very forum.

...(I've searched for it but can't find it ) and I think I've been coming down on the side of "Yeah, But" that would be a massive waste of CO2..who would actually do that?!? ... Well, ok, sorry for assuming everyone is going to have the same priorities and of what is practical...if I adopt the 'throw money at the problem' frame of mind, I can see the utility value. My takeway from that long thread and scientifically debated thread was that I can either waste a massive amount of CO2, to the cost of a third of my groceries for a week, or I can fill my keg completely with liquid and purge once.
This part though;

Yeah it's more work and it's wasteful of bottled CO2, but do you really think that no one ever finds themselves in need of a keg when they don't happen to have a purged one lying around or an active fermentation in progress?

..My custom is to leave a kicked keg until I need it. As long as I have been circumspect in my previous cleaning/sanitizing/purging, it can take sitting until needed, and if I discover any contamination when I do open it up to repeat that cycle, then I will have to revist my process... it hasn't happened yet. I personally worry about the aromatics in fermentation gas, so I only purge with bottled CO2.... but then that may be another myth that someone will bust for me.
Apologies though, it was probably wrong of me to call it a Myth. I just personally can't wrap my head around such a waste of bottled CO2.

 

[Broken Crow]

Maybe one of those 50 gallon plastic barrels.

That actually sounds like it could be practical if I were doing 3 cornies at a time...Thanks!..you've got me considering it now.

 

[mac_1103]

It was open the lid, put your beer in and do two to five spurts and you are good to go.

Yeah well I never said that.

I've searched for it but can't find it

Just ask @VikeMan.

Though I do like your idea of a huge barrel of starsan that you just dunk the keg in and seal. Maybe one of those 50 gallon plastic barrels.

I've got several of those that I use as rain barrels. I didn't find them all that easy to reach down into when I was trying to install spigots close to the bottom. If I was going to use one as a keg dunk tank, I'd probably cut it down to just a few inches taller than the kegs.

 

[Bassman2003]

In context - "Back when I was learning about kegging, the thought did not go that deep about gas laws and mixing. It was open the lid, put your beer in and do two to five spurts and you are good to go."

I never said you did say that. Homebrewing has come a long way in the last twenty years.

 

[Broken Crow]

If I was going to use one as a keg dunk tank, I'd probably cut it down to just a few inches taller than the kegs.

Roughly; It would take a little under 3oz. of Star San to fill one of those barrels.... I could justify that expense. There's a wine-making place a few blocks from me, that frequently sells those barrels prety cheap, but it takes me a long time to do anything and I've already got a full list, but that does sound like it would put my O2 worries to rest....
Any chance you might give it a try yourself? I'd love to know how many kegs could be fully submerged at once.
BTW; Thanks for the link to that chart..and a little further down the thread, the link to dougcz's 'epic post'...very good reading! It's still not the very long O2 purging thread I'm looking for, but it does contain all the background information that my damaged brain has a hard time retaining.

 

[Bassman2003]

I don't know how much the barrel would work better than a fill up as you need to tilt the keg to get the trapped air pocket under the lid out. If you just submerged it I do not know if the air under the lid would necessarily come out very easily. Tilting moves it to the post out from under the lid.

 

[Broken Crow]

Damn! I wish I had pictures of my process, but it takes two hands. Even tilted, because of the bale, I can't get the air out from that last maybe 1/4" side of the lid that remains above the mouth of the keg. That's why I would like to have the entire keg submerged deep enough that I can submerse the lid upside down and then flip it and insert into the corny-mouth completely under the Star San. ....Just to cover all the bases: My current process includes having a bare disconnect on the gas post while filling through the liquid post, and letting it squirt out the gas, which I pull off once I've submeged the lid as much as possible and am holding it now in the sealed position, by the bail until it seals and the running star san stops flowing.
With bare disconnects attached to the posts and the PRV turned opened with both sides of the lid completely immersed, it seems to me that would be the best assurance of getting all the air out.

 

[doug293cz]

I'll say right now that I have believed in a few myths myself and just had one of my own superstitions busted in another thread, but for me, half the point of these discussions is so I can learn better...

You are welcome.

Well sure, but that's a bit different than saying it's a complete myth that you can purge a keg with gas. People have posted charts showing O2 ppb after x purging cycles at y psi on this very forum.

...(I've searched for it but can't find it )

Here are the chart and table. I am the source of this analysis. Here's a link to the first time I posted a version of this analysis in Jan '16

Brew on

 

[mac_1103]

Any chance you might give it a try yourself? I'd love to know how many kegs could be fully submerged at once.

I don't own enough kegs to do the experiment. Also, my barrels are tapered which adds another constraint.

 

[mac_1103]

It's still not the very long O2 purging thread I'm looking for, but it does contain all the background information that my damaged brain has a hard time retaining.

ctrl+D

 

[Bassman2003]

Damn! I wish I had pictures of my process, but it takes two hands. Even tilted, because of the bale, I can't get the air out from that last maybe 1/4" side of the lid that remains above the mouth of the keg. That's why I would like to have the entire keg submerged deep enough that I can submerse the lid upside down and then flip it and insert into the corny-mouth completely under the Star San. ....Just to cover all the bases: My current process includes having a bare disconnect on the gas post while filling through the liquid post, and letting it squirt out the gas, which I pull off once I've submeged the lid as much as possible and am holding it now in the sealed position, by the bail until it seals and the running star san stops flowing.
With bare disconnects attached to the posts and the PRV turned opened with both sides of the lid completely immersed, it seems to me that would be the best assurance of getting all the air out.

The way I did it was in reverse - keg sits upright, fill with the lid closed tight but PRV open. Once liquid shoots out the PRV I close it and add a bare disconnect on the gas-out. The liquid then starts to come out the disconnect. While it is coming out I tilt the keg towards the liquid-in post. You will then see the liquid stop coming out for a bit (assuming that is the air pocket). I then take the disconnect off while the liquid is still coming out and it is finished.

 

[Broken Crow]

You are welcome.


Here are the chart and table. I am the source of this analysis.

View attachment 818510View attachment 818511

Brew on

Thank You!! You are my first-call Authority on here for math and electrical matters. I don't want to sound unapprciative or lazy, but; embarassing as this is, the part of my brain that comprhends and processes both the language and abstractions of numbers, volumes, measures, and 3D cognitive modelling, as well as the size of data-sets I can process was quite literally ripped away in 2014. (I can even trust myself to accurately count to 100 now and I used to be a maths ace )... About what percentage of a 5 or 10 lb CO2 cylinder is consumed using the 'pull the PRV x-many times' method that has been stated above?
..Like I said; this is embarassing because I can see it's just simple math, but despite my best efforts, my brain gets swamped trying to calculate it. (and I'm worried I may just be going on assumptions, but I can't be sure because connections to my insular gyrus are ripped up as well )