Other Half Daydream (oat cream IPAs) - all grain clone attempts

[MrPowers]

You definitely don’t need a high FG to get great mouthfeel and a malt backbone. Good brewing process and recipe formulation should be plenty to get you there!

 

[Dgallo]

View attachment 694830
This? It’s from trillium not Sam but I posted it a while back.

That’s the one I was thinking of, could have sworn it was from a other half post. Thanks! I gotta do a better job of who I heard what from

 

[Dgallo]

@Jesse Runowski

Preboil - 1.055 at exactly 8 gallons
Efficiency calculated to 69.8%

 

[TBryerton]

From Janish’s book regarding OH’s lower ABV beers.

“Other Half is lucky to brew with Brooklyn water, which offers a neutral, low mineral profile allowing them to easily add additional minerals based on the style. For example, most of their hazy, hoppy beers favor calcium chloride additions to help enhance body, especially when brewing lower ABV beers. They will often mash these lower ABV beers as high as 160 ° F (71 ° C) to boost the mouthfeel. The lower alcohol beers might also get a higher percentage of protein-rich grains to compensate for the lower alcohol content (again, for mouthfeel).”

 

[Jesse Runowski]

@Jesse Runowski

Preboil - 1.055 at exactly 8 gallons
Efficiency calculated to 69.8%

Nice, Spot on! Good to know you can get close to 70% with that grain bill. I may try your exact recipe to see where I land. I had flaked barley in mine on top of the 44% malted oats. I might need to increase my base malt % a bit. 60% efficiency was such a shock to me, I usually get 75-80% with a less oaty / adjunct grain bill.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[cheesebach]

Nice, Spot on! Good to know you can get close to 70% with that grain bill. I may try your exact recipe to see where I land. I had flaked barley in mine on top of the 44% malted oats. I might need to increase my base malt % a bit. 60% efficiency was such a shock to me, I usually get 75-80% with a less oaty / adjunct grain bill.

Thanks for sharing!

I think the majority of the efficiency issues with malted oats come from the milling and/or using the wrong potential extract in the brewing software. I think Beersmith has something like 1.037 for the extract potential of malted oats, but if you check look up the specs for Fawcett malted oats, it falls somewhere in the range of 1.028-1.032. I saw Brewer's Friend had 1.028, so this is what I plugged into Beersmith. Also, I found that I had to crank down my monster mill to the tightest I could set the gap to get a decent crush on the oats. Doing those 2 things, I got a 73% no-sparge mash efficiency (BIAB) on a 1.084 OG DIPA I made this summer using 30% malted oats, which is right in line with other IPAs I've made in that OG range.

 

[Jesse Runowski]

I think the majority of the efficiency issues with malted oats come from the milling and/or using the wrong potential extract in the brewing software. I think Beersmith has something like 1.037 for the extract potential of malted oats, but if you check look up the specs for Fawcett malted oats, it falls somewhere in the range of 1.028-1.032. I saw Brewer's Friend had 1.028, so this is what I plugged into Beersmith. Also, I found that I had to crank down my monster mill to the tightest I could set the gap to get a decent crush on the oats. Doing those 2 things, I got a 73% no-sparge mash efficiency (BIAB) on a 1.084 OG DIPA I made this summer using 30% malted oats, which is right in line with other IPAs I've made in that OG range.

Good call! I do use beersmith for my recipes. For me beersmith has TF oat malt at 70% yield (1.033). If I adjust the yield to %60 the new potential SG is 1.028. This brought my overall recipe SG down 4 points making my brew day eff 65%! Much better.

I'm definitely going to start double checking this in the future with other fermentables.

Next brew day I'll make sure I to use a smaller mill gap on for my oat malt. Last time I used feeler gauges to measure .035 for the first run then .025 on the second.

Maybe after these adjustments I'll be able to join you guys in the ~70% mash eff club.

Thanks for all of the tips!

 

[Dgallo]

Going to brew my newest edition of a Double Oat Cream ipa this weekend.

Grains;
49% - Pilsner
38% - Malted oats
10% - White Wheat
3% - Honey malt

Mash: 152*f

Hops:
Citra
Citra LUPOMAX
Strata
Idaho 7

Boil: Citra
WH: Idaho7 & Citra (3:1)
DH: Strata & Citra LUPOMAX (1:2)

Yeast: Imperial juice

I will update with the finished product

Alright so here is the finished product. Def the best version of an oat cream I’ve made. Perfect mouthfeel for this one and really diggin the hop combo

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Alright so here is the finished product. Def the best version of an oat cream I’ve made. Perfect mouthfeel for this one and really diggin the hop combo View attachment 697051

Looks great man! Ive played with this Hop combo a couple of times and still tweaking it. Its great though, Ive never left strata out of the whirlpool all together myself. Couple questions:

Did you use less Citra in the dry hop than usual because its LUPOMAX and supposedly more efficient or did you just roll with your norm dry hop rates? Haven't used LUPOMAX yet myself.

I thought I saw somewhere that you were intending to mash lower at like 150ish, did you stick with 152? Reason why I ask is that Ive done two of these now and generally according to MrPowers step mash schedule with the first ~40min at 149. Both have had absolutely fantastic mouthfeel and were not dry at all given the massive amount of oats in the recipe (I also used white wheat in mine) and both finished at 1.012, 1.013 (~8.0 ABV beers). Im definitely sticking with that mash schedule in for this beer.

Lastly, I haven't tried Imperial Juice yet, but care to comment on similarities/differences with A24 Dry Hop in terms of esters?

Thanks.

 

[Frieds]

Alright so here is the finished product. Def the best version of an oat cream I’ve made. Perfect mouthfeel for this one and really diggin the hop combo View attachment 697051

That looks fantastic!

 

[Dgallo]

Looks great man! Ive played with this Hop combo a couple of times and still tweaking it. Its great though, Ive never left strata out of the whirlpool all together myself. Couple questions:

Did you use less Citra in the dry hop than usual because its LUPOMAX and supposedly more efficient or did you just roll with your norm dry hop rates? Haven't used LUPOMAX yet myself.

I thought I saw somewhere that you were intending to mash lower at like 150ish, did you stick with 152? Reason why I ask is that Ive done two of these now and generally according to MrPowers step mash schedule with the first ~40min at 149. Both have had absolutely fantastic mouthfeel and were not dry at all given the massive amount of oats in the recipe (I also used white wheat in mine) and both finished at 1.012, 1.013 (~8.0 ABV beers). Im definitely sticking with that mash schedule in for this beer.

Lastly, I haven't tried Imperial Juice yet, but care to comment on similarities/differences with A24 Dry Hop in terms of esters?

Thanks.

Thanks brother

1) no, I just rolled with the same hoping rates. 2 oz per gallon Dryhop;
2 oz Citra pellets
4 oz strata
4 oz Citra LUPOMAX
Citra takes lead, it’s a definitive Citra note too, no b.o. or cattyness at all. Then the strata starts coming in on the Backend with some zesty dankness. The Idaho 7 On the hotside was pretty orange forward this time. I really didn’t get any earth/herbal notes that I’ve gotten in the past and because of that, it kinda just blended into the Citra character for a nice citrus/tropical flavor.

2) I did. I ended up mashing at 150* for 60. A quick 5 minute mash out and then done 1.076 - 1.012 - 8.4%. I really think this is a solid mash temp for high adjunct beers. The mouthfeel is full but as you swallow is drys out and finishes slightly crisp and really comes across as pillow soft because of the lite finish

3) slightly similar with a touch of stone fruit. Imperial Juice is London Ale III so it’s as similar to A24 as 1318 is.

 

[Dgallo]

That looks fantastic!

Thanks brother

 

[AngelP092]

Congrats of all of you! That’s an awesome lever of hombrewing! Incredible beers! Here in Chile we are so far away of that lever!

 

[Frieds]

Gonna brew this on Friday and also going the no lactose route. I know that technically means it’s not an Oat Cream IPA but my last two imperial oat creams have finished a bit higher than I would have liked.

28% Malted Oats
20% Golden Promise
20% Pale Malt
8% Dextrose
6% Flaked Oats
6% Golden Naked Oats
6% Wheat Malt
5% Acidulated

Boil: Simcoe
Whirlpool: 1:1 Galaxy/Hallertau Blanc
Dry Hop: 4:2:1:1 Galaxy, Simcoe Cryo, Simcoe, Hallertau Blanc

LAIII

8.5% ABV

 

[TravelingLight]

Gonna brew this on Friday and also going the no lactose route. I know that technically means it’s not an Oat Cream IPA but my last two imperial oat creams have finished a bit higher than I would have liked.

28% Malted Oats
20% Golden Promise
20% Pale Malt
8% Dextrose
6% Flaked Oats
6% Golden Naked Oats
6% Wheat Malt
5% Acidulated

Boil: Simcoe
Whirlpool: 1:1 Galaxy/Hallertau Blanc
Dry Hop: 4:2:1:1 Galaxy, Simcoe Cryo, Simcoe, Hallertau Blanc

LAIII

8.5% ABV

What are your thoughts/reasoning on including the GNO? Are you just using that for some additional color? What's the SRM for that grist clock in at?

 

[Frieds]

What are your thoughts/reasoning on including the GNO? Are you just using that for some additional color? What's the SRM for that grist clock in at?

Pretry much. I’ve started with a base grain bill that I’m happy with and then each brew I’ve been adding or subtracting certain grain to see if it improves the beer until I eventually settle on a specific grist. This particular beer will come in at 12 EBC.

 

[TravelingLight]

Pretry much. I’ve started with a base grain bill that I’m happy with and then each brew I’ve been adding or subtracting certain grain to see if it improves the beer until I eventually settle on a specific grist. This particular beer will come in at 12 EBC.

Thanks dude. Looking forward to seeing this one in the glass.

 

[Dgallo]

Gonna brew this on Friday and also going the no lactose route. I know that technically means it’s not an Oat Cream IPA but my last two imperial oat creams have finished a bit higher than I would have liked.

28% Malted Oats
20% Golden Promise
20% Pale Malt
8% Dextrose
6% Flaked Oats
6% Golden Naked Oats
6% Wheat Malt
5% Acidulated

Boil: Simcoe
Whirlpool: 1:1 Galaxy/Hallertau Blanc
Dry Hop: 4:2:1:1 Galaxy, Simcoe Cryo, Simcoe, Hallertau Blanc

LAIII

8.5% ABV

The recipe Seems a tad busy but not bad by any means. My only two suggestions would be to eliminate the dextrose and replace it with grain - fullness is a huge component to this style, and at 8% dextrose will easily add a minimum of a whole percent of pure alcohol from the sugar, possible 1.5%. That will def counteract some of the contribution of your body building grains. Second is regarding the size of the Hallertau Blanc additions. In my experience using it, it takes a good 3-4oz or 30% of the hop bill to have its character to show over other hops. I personally would remover the simcoe pellets in the ratio and and just make it a 2:1:1 Galaxy, cryo simcoe, blanc.

Again, these are just suggestion. Your beer will be fine without making any adjustments but I think they may help the finished product. Keep us posted l!

 

[Frieds]

The recipe Seems a tad busy but not bad by any means. My only two suggestions would be to eliminate the dextrose and replace it with grain - fullness is a huge component to this style, and at 8% dextrose will easily add a minimum of a whole percent of pure alcohol from the sugar, possible 1.5%. That will def counteract some of the contribution of your body building grains. Second is regarding the size of the Hallertau Blanc additions. In my experience using it, it takes a good 3-4oz or 30% of the hop bill to have its character to show over other hops. I personally would remover the simcoe pellets in the ratio and and just make it a 2:1:1 Galaxy, cryo simcoe, blanc.

Again, these are just suggestion. Your beer will be fine without making any adjustments but I think they may help the finished product. Keep us posted l!

I really appreciate the feedback mate. I understand that the grist may be a bit busy but I’m still experimenting at the moment so I’m not too worried as I’m still very confident that it will create a great beer. I’m only using that much dextrose as I’m using a Grainfather and I’ll struggle to get to the abv I’m targeting with just grain alone. I’ve never used Hallertau Blanc before so im going in blind. Was
Planning on using half of it in the kettle and half of it in the dry hop, but open to moving more into the dry hop if that’s what you as someone who’s used it before would suggest.

 

[Dgallo]

I really appreciate the feedback mate. I understand that the grist may be a bit busy but I’m still experimenting at the moment so I’m not too worried as I’m still very confident that it will create a great beer. I’m only using that much dextrose as I’m using a Grainfather and I’ll struggle to get to the abv I’m targeting with just grain alone. I’ve never used Hallertau Blanc before so im going in blind. Was
Planning on using half of it in the kettle and half of it in the dry hop, but open to moving more into the dry hop if that’s what you as someone who’s used it before would suggest.

Dme is always a possible solution when using the grainfather. There is also a product called “brewers crystalS” that someone mentioned in the this thread a few pages back that has the same fermentability as base malts so It can be substituted exactly the same.

I’ve never used Hallertau blanc hotside so i cant comment on its use there but I would certainly up both your hotside and cold side amounts of it

 

[couchsending]

Gonna brew this on Friday and also going the no lactose route. I know that technically means it’s not an Oat Cream IPA but my last two imperial oat creams have finished a bit higher than I would have liked.

28% Malted Oats
20% Golden Promise
20% Pale Malt
8% Dextrose
6% Flaked Oats
6% Golden Naked Oats
6% Wheat Malt
5% Acidulated

Boil: Simcoe
Whirlpool: 1:1 Galaxy/Hallertau Blanc
Dry Hop: 4:2:1:1 Galaxy, Simcoe Cryo, Simcoe, Hallertau Blanc

LAIII

8.5% ABV

That grain bill seems way too complicated. No way you’d be able to detect what that 6% wheat is doing or even the flaked oats. Have you tried it with just 2row, Malted Oats, and Dextrose? Next round just change one variable, maybe split the malted oats 50/50 with GNO?

Keep it simple.

 

[Frieds]

Dme is always a possible solution when using the grainfather. There is also a product called “brewers crystalS” that someone mentioned in the this thread a few pages back that has the same fermentability as base malts so It can be substituted exactly the same.

I’ve never used Hallertau blanc hotside so i cant comment on its use there but I would certainly up both your hotside and cold side amounts of it

Can you substitute DME for dextrose 1:1? I’ve got some DME & LDME on deck

 

[Frieds]

That grain bill seems way too complicated. No way you’d be able to detect what that 6% wheat is doing or even the flaked oats. Have you tried it with just 2row, Malted Oats, and Dextrose? Next round just change one variable, maybe split the malted oats 50/50 with GNO?

Keep it simple.

I have, and I was very happy with it. I’ve been adding certain malts on the basis of commercial beers I like that use those malts together. But I’ve only been adding malts one at a time between each brew to see if there’s a noticeable difference or not.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

I have, and I was very happy with it. I’ve been adding certain malts on the basis of commercial beers I like that use those malts together. But I’ve only been adding malts one at a time between each brew to see if there’s a noticeable difference or not.

@Frieds with your grandfather, whats your maximum grain bill size? I have the 10.5g foundry and while Anvil says 16lb limit, I've been able to get over 18lbs in it if I just sparge more water and have a little thicker mash. reason why I bring that up is that Ive done this oat NEIPA twice now and both have been fantastically soft / full mouthfeels (no lactose added). For both, my grain bill was 17.75lbs (not including rice hulls) and I added 0.5lb of dextrose to the boil. So my dextrose was 2.7% of the total grain bill (18.25lbs) and had great results. Based @Dgallo comments about too much dextrose thinning out the grain bill I think thats a valid point. I might try ditching the dextrose for one of these when I brew it next to see if the "fullness" is better without dextrose, but the abv will of course be lower too. However, I do think that the ABV boost does help with fullness of mouthfeel if using dextrose in small amounts. Both of my oat NEIPAs were 8.0 and 8.1% ABV and finished at 1.013 and 1.012 respectively and loved them. Just a thought to consider but again I'm not sure what the grandfather's max grain bill is.

 

[Dgallo]

Can you substitute DME for dextrose 1:1? I’ve got some DME & LDME on deck

So it’s kinda a funny conversion. DME Is 1.044 and dextrose is 1.046 so from an OG stand point they are. However dme is roughly 75-80% fermentable where dextrose is 99%. So in order to get the same fermentability and alcohol conversion you need to use 1.6x’s the amount of DME to be the same as the dextrose. So 1kg of dextrose would need 1.6kg of dme to replace it

 

[Dog House Brew]

I've dropped all dextrose. I've found I like my beers better without it. I could see me using up what I have in something dark. Sometimes you find things that just aren't a fit for yourself. I've also not had great luck using DME in anything other than a starter. That said, I got my butt kicked by a DME IPA once, it scored a 41. Lots of great info in this thread. I've been brewing an IPA for 10 years +. It is crazy how similar it is to these beers. The major difference is "new" O2 and dry hop. Both of these variables from this and a few other threads, spot on. @Dgallo that last pic

 

[AngelP092]

Hey guys! Have you recommendations to replace Citra LUPOMAX, Strata, Idaho 7 and another yeast? Here I can’t find that, it’s very difficult find that stuff in Chile! Recommendations time in fermentator tank after fermentation is finished? Time for cold crash? Before put in bottles... thank you!

 

[MrPowers]

Hey guys! Have you recommendations to replace Citra LUPOMAX, Strata, Idaho 7 and another yeast? Here I can’t find that, it’s very difficult find that stuff in Chile! Recommendations time in fermentator tank after fermentation is finished? Time for cold crash? Before put in bottles... thank you!

What hops are you able to get? Citra, Galaxy, Mosaic, Simcoe, Amarillo, Nelson Sauvin, Riwaka, El Dorado, etc...? Are you able to get the Cryo versions? SO4 dry yeast is a great yeast for the style and is what I used in my recipe a few pages ago.

 

[Dgallo]

Hey guys! Have you recommendations to replace Citra LUPOMAX, Strata, Idaho 7 and another yeast? Here I can’t find that, it’s very difficult find that stuff in Chile! Recommendations time in fermentator tank after fermentation is finished? Time for cold crash? Before put in bottles... thank you!

US-05 or equivalent is fine but if you have access to an ester producing, mid attenuative English yeast that’s ideal. Any new world hops you can use will help for the style (Citra, mosaic, Galaxy, Amarillo, etc)

Soft crash time 36-48 hours. Cold crash 48hrs. Both need to be done with o2 minimizing techniques

 

[Dgallo]

I've dropped all dextrose. I've found I like my beers better without it. I could see me using up what I have in something dark. Sometimes you find things that just aren't a fit for yourself. I've also not had great luck using DME in anything other than a starter. That said, I got my butt kicked by a DME IPA once, it scored a 41. Lots of great info in this thread. I've been brewing an IPA for 10 years +. It is crazy how similar it is to these beers. The major difference is "new" O2 and dry hop. Both of these variables from this and a few other threads, spot on. @Dgallo that last pic

Thanks brother. This beer is pretty spot on. My only complaint is that I have a little more ester profile than I wanted. Will have to up my pitch rate next time.