"Organic" beer and BMC

[McCall St. Brewer]

Here is an interesting article on growing organic hops:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=623644

I found it interesting for two reasons, the first being that it would be nice if they can succeed in growing organic hops in Wisconsin (or elsewhere in the U.S., for that matter).

Second, though, the parts about the big breweries (A-B in particular) trying to get the government to let them call beer with chemically treated hops in it organic really upset me. It they succeed, it would make a mockery of the term organic when applied to beer. (Some of you are probably wondering what I am worried about-- does Bud Light actually even have hops in it? ). I'm not really that big on looking for organic foods to eat, but I do think if you are going to call something organic it should truly be organic.

 

[Orfy]

How many reasons do you want not to drink BMC?

 

[feedthebear]

A Utah micro-brewpub, Squatters, just started selling an Organic Amber Ale. They say it is certified organic, so I would presume that it uses organic hops.

 

[Evan!]

"Organic" is just a scam wherein companies like Whole Paycheck use upper-middle-class guilt and fear to squeeze more money out of affluent folks. Bah.

 

[DeathBrewer]

i think most beer is pretty "organic" anyway (in regards to pesticides used in crops, etc.)

i like organic foods because they are generally better prepared. more care is taken from start to finish to have a quality product, and a lot of them are made with old-school natural techniques as appose to newer mass-produced crap with too much salt, sugar, or preservatives. like peanut butter. i need that oil on the top of my PB

 

[Evan!]

i think most beer is pretty "organic" anyway (in regards to pesticides used in crops, etc.)

i like organic foods because they are generally better prepared. more care is taken from start to finish to have a quality product, and a lot of them are made with old-school natural techniques as appose to newer mass-produced crap with too much salt, sugar, or preservatives. like peanut butter. i need that oil on the top of my PB

That paragraph comes right out of the Whole Paycheck scam playbook, man! Slapping "organic" on the label doesn't necessarily mean any of those things are true. You believe they are, but not always. Massive ag companies just have to meet certain government benchmarks for their products, and bam, they can slap "organic" on the label and charge twice as much for essentially the same product. Don't get me wrong, there are great "organic" products out there, but it's far from universal, and more often than not, you're getting ripped off...paying $25 for a quart of free-range, cruelty-free organic laundry detergent from Whole Foods.

As for peanut butter, screw the oil. I go to the local healthfood store, where I grind the peanuts myself, and keep it in the fridge so there's never any oil separation. Now that's peanut butter.

 

[fifelee]

I think organic is an okay idea for some vegetables and some meat, but it is dumb for grains. Grain farmers (like my dad) require vast tracks to land. Organic wheat/barley gets about half the yield, so twice the land is needed to get the same amount of flour/malt. This causes much more erosion, cause more expensive food, and breaks up more land. Plus, to control weeds organic farmers have to go back to the old days of plowing a field. This drastically increases land erosion often into river and streams and causes land to dry out creating even lower yields. I heard somewhere that the recent drought was just as bad as the dust bowl of the 1930's. The reason topsoil didn't blow away and the country didn't starve this time was because of newer farming practices, practices that organic farmers can't use. In addition to erosion, plowing a field burns vastly more fossil fuels than the alternative. No need to add any final comments, you get the significance of an organic eater consuming a product that uses vastly more fossil fuels.

 

[DeathBrewer]

That paragraph comes right out of the Whole Paycheck scam playbook, man! Slapping "organic" on the label doesn't necessarily mean any of those things are true. You believe they are, but not always. Massive ag companies just have to meet certain government benchmarks for their products, and bam, they can slap "organic" on the label and charge twice as much for essentially the same product. Don't get me wrong, there are great "organic" products out there, but it's far from universal, and more often than not, you're getting ripped off...paying $25 for a quart of free-range, cruelty-free organic laundry detergent from Whole Foods.

As for peanut butter, screw the oil. I go to the local healthfood store, where I grind the peanuts myself, and keep it in the fridge so there's never any oil separation. Now that's peanut butter.

dude, i'm not an idiot. i said "generally". i didn't say "hey, that says organic, it must be better." i like quality food, organic or no. i also meant "from start to finish" and that includes where you get the foods, grocery or restaurant. specifically the stores that "specialize" in organic foods...trader joes, whole foods, some of local stores around here are amazing. i like walking into a store and seeing mounds of fresh ripe fruit, not spending 30 minutes looking through safeway trying to find a decent orange.

and i don't care about free-range or any of that nonsense. i appreciate quality, that's all there is to it. although i do prefer some eggs over others. what the animal eats and how they are treated does have an effect on how they taste and what they produce doesn't mean they have to be treated WELL. i enjoy some veal every now and again.

another example...don't know if it's organic but it sure is expensive: daddy sam's bbq sauce...i've wasted so much money on that stuff, but damn is it good

 

[Orfy]

Are we getting off topic here?
This always turns into an heated debate!

 

[DeathBrewer]

i'm not debating...just wanted to make sure i was understood. first time posting about the subject on here...should i run a search?

 

[Evan!]

dude, i'm not an idiot. i said "generally". i didn't say "hey, that says organic, it must be better." i like quality food, organic or no. i also meant "from start to finish" and that includes where you get the foods, grocery or restaurant. specifically the stores that "specialize" in organic foods...trader joes, whole foods, some of local stores around here are amazing. i like walking into a store and seeing mounds of fresh ripe fruit, not spending 30 minutes looking through safeway trying to find a decent orange.

and i don't care about free-range or any of that nonsense. i appreciate quality, that's all there is to it. although i do prefer some eggs over others. what the animal eats and how they are treated does have an effect on how they taste and what they produce doesn't mean they have to be treated WELL. i enjoy some veal every now and again.

another example...don't know if it's organic but it sure is expensive: daddy sam's bbq sauce...i've wasted so much money on that stuff, but damn is it good

I agree with you on all that stuff...all I'm saying is, when it comes to "organic", there's a subtle grift going on. People assume that if something is certified organic, it's better, and thus worth the overblown prices.

And I never said you were an idiot. I appreciate well-made food alot. We actually have share in a local Amish/Mennonite produce cooperative. The stuff is all beautiful, and it makes me cringe to buy any produce at Giant or Kroger.

 

[david_42]

If you want to use organically grown hops, they are available. The varieties are limited to ones that are highly resistant to mildews and molds. Freshops carries only three and knowing Dave, he'd have more if he could. Growing barley organically is really tough, because there are molds that once they are in the soil, even burning the field won't get rid of them.

Personally, I haven't enjoyed most of the "organic" beers I've had. I don't know if it is the limited range of ingredients or lack of skill or being focused on 'organic' first and flavor second.

 

[Chris_Dog]

The beers I had at the Orlando Brewery http://www.orlandobrewing.com/index2.php yesterday were "organic" and for the most part good. Yesterday was the first time I have of heard of organic brewing. I grow my vegetables in the garden organically and can't imagine why organic brew would be a bad thing. (Other than the impact to the farmers as stated previously). That said I am not going to pay more $ for organic brew, hops, or grains.

 

[Foreigner]

"Organic" is a crock. The plant could care less where it gets its N-P-K from.

For pesticides though, thats a different story.

I've heard that the "hops" in some big commercial brews are just a really bitter extract in a bottle (which is not yet available for homebrewers). Anyone know if thats true?

I'm reading a book called Beer, the story of the pint, and it has a rhyme about the difficulties of hop farming that goes something like "first the fly and flea on hops, then the crop it molds and rots."

I'll look it up and post verbatum if anyone cares...