Ordering liquid yeast

[Beenym88]

Hey guys I was just wondering how everyone feels about ordering yeast online now that it’s warm out. I love Imperial juice yeast for my NEIPAs but it’s in the 80s now so I’m a little worried it will get ruined. I usually order from northern brewer. My local home brew shop carries it but they aren’t really local it’s a solid 45 minutes with short hours. So do you guys buy online even when it’s warm or sub it out for dry yeast?

 

[logdrum]

I buy online quite a bit & always add the ice pack/order on Monday. Plus, I overbuild my starters in order to bank an extra 100b or so cells.

 

[Golddiggie]

I've ordered with the ice packs as mentioned by logdrum without issue. At least in the warm months (not when it's really hot though). I'm more concerned about ordering yeast in the winter months with the risk of it getting frozen. Even with the insulated packaging.
The HBS I visit is a solid 35-45 minutes from me. I tend to go there for my yeast needs, plus any small items. I picked up some last week for the next couple of batches. I do plan to harvest the yeasts more moving forward (with the conicals coming it will be easier). That should reduce the amount of times I need to purchase yeast to when I'm using something I've not used since doing that. I already have two jars of yeast in the fridge waiting for batches. With the age of those, I'll make a starter to see if they're viable enough, or not.
If you use the same strains often enough, I'd look into saving from batches. Besides not needing to worry about yeast arriving (from shipping) you'll also save $$ per batch. Consider how much you spend per yeast order. Even making starters (I'm using the canned starter wort concentrate these days for less steps to get the starter going) means you'll be spending less AND not need to worry about yeast arriving on time.

 

[Brooothru]

I've ordered with the ice packs as mentioned by logdrum without issue. At least in the warm months (not when it's really hot though). I'm more concerned about ordering yeast in the winter months with the risk of it getting frozen. Even with the insulated packaging.
The HBS I visit is a solid 35-45 minutes from me. I tend to go there for my yeast needs, plus any small items. I picked up some last week for the next couple of batches. I do plan to harvest the yeasts more moving forward (with the conicals coming it will be easier). That should reduce the amount of times I need to purchase yeast to when I'm using something I've not used since doing that. I already have two jars of yeast in the fridge waiting for batches. With the age of those, I'll make a starter to see if they're viable enough, or not.
If you use the same strains often enough, I'd look into saving from batches. Besides not needing to worry about yeast arriving (from shipping) you'll also save $$ per batch. Consider how much you spend per yeast order. Even making starters (I'm using the canned starter wort concentrate these days for less steps to get the starter going) means you'll be spending less AND not need to worry about yeast arriving on time.

Agree with all the above, though buying canned starter gets expensive pretty fast at $3-$4/can. I use Propper when I'm in a pinch and have run out of my home-grown starters. I'll make a couple of gallons of 1.040 wort and pressure can in 600ml Mason/Ball jars it to have on hand. Any leftovers get put in jars in the refrigerator, but must be used in 4-5 days or else unwanted visitors may soon populate the wort.

It's important to note that simple water bath canning does not get the wort hot enough (212F, Sea Level) to kill all spores, but 1 bar pressure canning does at 250F (Sea Level). Water bath process gets most of the common food borne bacterial and some less dangerous spores, but you'll need the higher temps to denature botulism spores which can be deadly.

 

[Golddiggie]

Agree with all the above, though buying canned starter gets expensive pretty fast at $3-$4/can. I use Propper when I'm in a pinch and have run out of my home-grown starters. I'll make a couple of gallons of 1.040 wort and pressure can in 600ml Mason/Ball jars it to have on hand. Any leftovers get put in jars in the refrigerator, but must be used in 4-5 days or else unwanted visitors may soon populate the wort.

It's important to note that simple water bath canning does not get the wort hot enough (212F, Sea Level) to kill all spores, but 1 bar pressure canning does at 250F (Sea Level). Water bath process gets most of the common food borne bacterial and some less dangerous spores, but you'll need the higher temps to denature botulism spores which can be deadly.

IIRC, the LHBS has the Propper Starter cans at about $3.50 each (for me, the time savings is worth the cost). I get them a 4 pack at a time. With the coming harvesting method I'll be using I expect my need for the cans to be greatly reduced. Maybe one can per batch if the yeast has been in the fridge for a while. I also typically do two starter steps so that I use less starter wort total. Plus get either really close to, or just over, my cell count target.

YMMV

 

[Brooothru]

IIRC, the LHBS has the Propper Starter cans at about $3.50 each (for me, the time savings is worth the cost). I get them a 4 pack at a time. With the coming harvesting method I'll be using I expect my need for the cans to be greatly reduced. Maybe one can per batch if the yeast has been in the fridge for a while. I also typically do two starter steps so that I use less starter wort total. Plus get either really close to, or just over, my cell count target.

YMMV

Actually I've found that my need for starters has increased with harvesting and ranching yeast. When you harvest or overbuild a starter, it begins to 'age' just like a fresh commercial pitch from the day it's packaged. After 4~6 months in your refrigerator it has to be revived due to the significant drop-off of viable cells. A sample more than 6 months old will need a vitality starter (200 ml 1.020 wort with about 50-100 ml yeast slurry) to kick start the process, then several step-ups with 1.040 wort to build up the cell count.

I've been rebuilding my yeast bank since the first of March, and I've revived 12 samples so far. I freeze (3) 25ml dense slurry samples of each one and refrigerate the balance of yeast under the wort supernatant for use in 3~4 weeks or re-propagation after 1~2 months. That works out to a minimum of three liters per yeast strain x 12 strains = 36L @ $3.50/Can of Propper = $126.00. A 5 lb. bag of Pilsen Light DME cost about 15 bucks.

Even with all the work, I really enjoy the yeast harvesting. The $100+ savings is worth it for me.

 

[Golddiggie]

I use one strain of yeast for most of my recipes. With a second being used for a lot of the rest. There are the one-offs that I'll use infrequently enough to not warrant harvesting (maybe once a year). I also have some of that frozen (1882-PC, from 2012) that I revived some of, successfully, last year. I have tubes remaining of that yeast that I could use for the next time I brew that recipe. IF it's not available for purchase that is. After which, I'll probably treat and freeze new tubes of it.

My plan is to use the yeast about once a month, with the more used strain (Wyeast 1335). I also use 1318 for some, and 1084 for one in the past year (or so). Even if I just reserve the 1335 for use again in batches, every 1-2 months (at the longest) I should be good.

I'm also looking to see how the yeast evolves over time with doing this. Be interesting to see what shape that takes and how many batches it takes.

 

[IslandLizard]

If at all possible, I'd buy yeast locally, even if it's a bit of a drive, and stock up for the next 3-6 months of planned brews.
Maybe combine with some other errants in that area, or maybe a brewery/taproom visit.
If they don't have the ones in stock for pickup, maybe have them order those ahead of your visit.

My preferred LHBS is a 30' drive, each way, and it's all worth it.

I had some yeast from WhiteLabs Yeast Vault sent to me around this time of the year, can't get fresher than that, but it was hot along the (southern) route and took about a week. It took me 2 starter steps to get enough for a pitch, and some leftover for a 3rd step to save away.

 

[Golddiggie]

I looked over my recipes, as well as info from Wyeast. I'll be going with just two strains moving forward. I have 'fresh' packages in the fridge for both right now. I'll end up making starters for both for the batches they'll go into. Then harvest the yeast to store. At this point, I'm alternating the strains for batches. 1335 is on deck, followed by 1335. Rinse and repeat. So, at most, I'll go two months between using the yeast.

I'm getting ready to order the fittings I'll need to connect to the large (bottom) outlet/valve on the conicals. I won't be doing any dry hopping in the fermenters until the yeast has been collected. So less stuff to need to remove during the process.

Going to be interesting moving forward.

 

[Craiginthecorn]

I think the main thing is to order from a store that ships from a location near you to minimize the time in transit. Ideally, the store also has an option for shipping on Monday to avoid the chance that it languishes in a hot truck or warehouse over a weekend. And of course, pay for ice packs and insulated packaging.

I feel very fortunate to live in the Midwest, close enough to RiteBrew that a regional shipper called SpeeDee can handle the order. My orders from them nearly always arrive the next morning. And if I plan just a little bit ahead, I use their pre-order option to get super fresh packs. It seems to add one extra week for Wyeast, but can be up to three extra weeks for Omega. I suspect that they simply sell more Wyeast and so they order more frequently. They don't sell other brands of liquid yeast, like Imperial or White Labs. My fermentations have been extremely predictable and stress-free since I started ordering my yeast this way.

 

[IslandLizard]

order from a store that ships from a location near you to minimize the time in transit.

It surely should help, but it highly depends on the supplier and their ordering system and routing.

I've heard about East Coast brewers ordering yeast from MoreBeer's East coast warehouse showing stock, but still getting it shipped from the West Coast, taking a week (or longer) to arrive, instead of the estimated 2-3 days.

It gets better (or worse?)... When contacted about the issue, they reshipped, guess from where?

 

[IslandLizard]

I buy online quite a bit & always add the ice pack/order on Monday. Plus, I overbuild my starters in order to bank an extra 100b or so cells.

Both are excellent practices and advice. Some suppliers won't even ship yeast past Wednesday or Thursday unless $$$ overnight shipping is requested (and paid for).

The ice pack (or 2) will surely help being a temp buffer, but has inherent limitations. A good (bubble wrap) insulation around it may extend its usefulness.
Chances are the ice pack already melted by the time the order leaves the warehouse, certainly during hot seasons, never mind being in transit for an additional 2-3 days to a week.

One more reason to consider buying locally, if at all possible.

 

[Gozie Boy]

Ordered two pouches of Wyeast from NB a couple weeks ago. The online ordering process did not provide an ice pack option (and nothing on their website even mentioned ice packs), so I contacted them. They replied that they only provide ice packs when the weather dictated. I replied that it was 85F at my residence and that the parcel could be on my porch for a while before I got home to get it, and so I expected an ice pack. They responded by saying that they only look at the weather at their facility, not the delivery site, and that it was still cool there. I received the shipment a few days later, it had one small, thin ice bag inside a simple cardboard envelope (no insulation). And yes, it had long melted and the yeast was quite warm.

Other providers have used a much more robust ice pouch/insulated bag solution, and I'll be using them going forward. The insurance is worth an extra dollar. Either that, or wait until I am in Asheville (an hour away), to pick it up directly at White Labs.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Hey guys I was just wondering how everyone feels about ordering yeast online now that it’s warm out. I love Imperial juice yeast for my NEIPAs but it’s in the 80s now so I’m a little worried it will get ruined.

Remember that ale yeast typically grows best at around 30°C (86°F) and won't die until 40+°C (104+°F), although lager yeast is a bit lower than that. We only brew at lower temperatures to reduce off-flavours.

So the danger is not ambient temperatures in the 80s, it's more the risk that temperatures in a delivery truck could be 10°C/20°F ++ above ambient.

But if temperatures are in the 80s and you're sensible about the things you can control, like ordering on a Sunday night or Monday, then you should still have plenty of ale yeast to populate a starter, which is all that really matters. Into the 90°F's I might leave it though.

On the other hand, if Juice is your thing, which is the Imperial equivalent of 1318, then now might be the time to give Lallemand Verdant a go, since that's a dry derivative of 1318.