Omega OYL-405 Helio Gazer

[Apmarand]

From what I understand, the type of hop you use for mash hopping (for any of these thiolized yeasts) doesn't matter as they don't really impart any discernable characteristics. So unless you're trying to save your cascade specifically, it should be just as good as other proven high-thiol-precursor hops (saaz, hallertau, etc.).

100% agree. I’ve gotten absolutely no flavor/aroma from the mash hop (at the suggested hops rates)

 

[Apmarand]

I made a pale ale this morning (SG 1.054) pitching this yeast with Cascade in the mash (0.5 oz/gal), Cascade and CTZ in the boil (last 10 min, 0.25 oz/gal), and CTZ and Mosaic in the whirlpool (0.5 oz/gal). I will be foregoing dry hops. Really excited for this one given my last experience with OYL-405.

 

[FugacityBrews]

I just kegged a lunar crush IPL (cascade mash hopped, Galaxy/Sabro late & WP hop, Cashmere dry hop). I leaned heavily on the thiol flavors, as the WP and dry hopping were kept to a minimum. It DEFINITELY has the sav blanc wine characteristic.

From what I understand, the type of hop you use for mash hopping (for any of these thiolized yeasts) doesn't matter as they don't really impart any discernable characteristics. So unless you're trying to save your cascade specifically, it should be just as good as other proven high-thiol-precursor hops (saaz, hallertau, etc.).

This is really nice to know. That was my understanding but it helps to hear it again. I'm planning on using hallertau anyhow because I've got a decent amount I don't need and this is a way to get rid of it. I was concerned the flavors would be present in the end product but I'll no longer worry myself with that.

How much did you dry hop with Cashmere, and do you think the thiol aroma came through fairly well in the end after dry hopping?

 

[cactusgarrett]

How much did you dry hop with Cashmere, and do you think the thiol aroma came through fairly well in the end after dry hopping?

It was about 1.5 oz for 5.5gal in the fermenter for 36 hours at 50°F. Lunar Crush is a thiol bomb, so I can't imagine that (relatively) low dry hopping will have affected it at all. When I kegged, the whole room smelled like the beer, so it definitely has the aroma it should.

 

[Apmarand]

No mash hops. Just going to see what the malt and yeast do. I did use mash hops with Cosmic punch in the past.

Any update on this recipe? I am debating whether to add a small dry hop charge this weekend to a pale ale fermented with this yeast.

 

[TBA]

Any update on this recipe? I am debating whether to add a small dry hop charge this weekend to a pale ale fermented with this yeast.

Kegged it yesterday, forced carved and just tapped. Not sure I am a fan of plain thiols… not at all what I expected. Smells and tastes like an armpit. I guess that makes sense based on where they got the gene.

 

[Apmarand]

Don’t dump it yet - this yeast needs time for the flavors to settle in.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

would be interested in seeing omega do a belgian thiolized strain of sorts. Wondering if that's in the works?

 

[jnecessary]

Kegged it yesterday, forced carved and just tapped. Not sure I am a fan of plain thiols… not at all what I expected. Smells and tastes like an armpit. I guess that makes sense based on where they got the gene.

I did an IPA with Star Party, same here, not a fan of the thiol thing. I made a great pale ale the same day (used WLP001 on that batch)...it's sulphury and bad. I'm not in a hurry to waste it, but the smell is kind of repulsive at 3 weeks. It can sit and wait. I may also try the copper trick to see if it kills the sulphur.

 

[TBA]

Don’t dump it yet - this yeast needs time for the flavors to settle in.

Not sure what to do. I figured if it was bland I could keg hop but this crazy strong. Maybe adding kettle or whirlpool hops is a good idea to reduce some of the thiols. Right now I will let the keg sit and hopefully mellow out.

 

[Apmarand]

Not sure what to do. I figured if it was bland I could keg hop but this crazy strong. Maybe adding kettle or whirlpool hops is a good idea to reduce some of the thiols. Right now I will let the keg sit and hopefully mellow out.

The lack of specificity of B-lyase isn’t ideal… Considering thiols are volatile, you could potentially blow it off by purging the head space repeatedly. Keg hop would work great too.

 

[osagher]

Any update on this recipe? I am debating whether to add a small dry hop charge this weekend to a pale ale fermented with this yeast.

I am also interested in hearing about the effect of no dry hop in these thiolized NEIPA recipes. Have a version of Scott Janish's Locksmith currently fermenting, and am debating skipping the dry hop charge.

 

[daygobrewer]

I am also interested in hearing about the effect of no dry hop in these thiolized NEIPA recipes. Have a version of Scott Janish's Locksmith currently fermenting, and am debating skipping the dry hop charge.

Did you wind up skipping the dry hop charge?

 

[sweetcell]

a few occasionally-related thoughts on my experience with HG, and my future plans...

• i brewed with HG once, split my brew into two 5-gallon batches.
• i bought one pack of HG and used a starter to boost the cell count for the 2 batches. dunno if i over-pitched, but it was one of the messiest blow-outs i've had in a while... see photo below
• i did all the thiol-precursor-boosting things: mash hopped Cascade, Phantasm in the whirlpool, generous amount of thiol-rich late hops. result: the jolly rancher/froot loops flavor was way over the top. i mostly enjoyed it, but it was a bit much.
• you know how some folks OD on a certain alcohol once and then can't stand it anymore? (tequila seems to be a popular one for this.) well, i think i might have been similarly traumatized but to a lesser fashion by the distinctive "fake taste" of over-thiolized beer. New Belgium has two new(ish?) beers called Fruit Force and Juice Force and i'm certain that they use a thiolized yeast.
• next time i use HG i'll be dialing down the precursors. or might just use Cosmic Punch instead, given its lower output of thiols.

 

[Apmarand]

a few occasionally-related thoughts on my experience with HG, and my future plans...

• i brewed with HG once, split my brew into two 5-gallon batches.
• i bought one pack of HG and used a starter to boost the cell count for the 2 batches. dunno if i over-pitched, but it was one of the messiest blow-outs i've had in a while... see photo below
• i did all the thiol-precursor-boosting things: mash hopped Cascade, Phantasm in the whirlpool, generous amount of thiol-rich late hops. result: the jolly rancher/froot loops flavor was way over the top. i mostly enjoyed it, but it was a bit much.
• you know how some folks OD on a certain alcohol once and then can't stand it anymore? (tequila seems to be a popular one for this.) well, i think i might have been similarly traumatized but to a lesser fashion by the distinctive "fake taste" of over-thiolized beer. New Belgium has two new(ish?) beers called Fruit Force and Juice Force and i'm certain that they use a thiolized yeast.
• next time i use HG i'll be dialing down the precursors. or might just use Cosmic Punch instead, given its lower output of thiols.

View attachment 820226

I’m don’t bother with mash hopping anymore with this yeast. Personally, the dry hop rate needs to be at least 1 oz/gal, otherwise I find that some of the more egregious thiols present too much in the final beer. Purging the headspace after packaging (kegs) is another way to dial it back. This yeast was the first starter in three years to make its way on to my floor. It’s a beast.

 

[sweetcell]

The Mad Fermentationist has written an excellent article on thiolized yeast - highly recommended reading. interesting thoughts on when and why to use thiolized yeasts.

Are Thiols a Scam? Thiolized Yeast, Phantasm, and the Rise of Designer Beer​

 

[sweetcell]

Personally, the dry hop rate needs to be at least 1 oz/gal, otherwise I find that some of the more egregious thiols present too much in the final beer.

^ THIS. there is some weird internet lore that claims that HG beers shouldn't be dry-hopped. i say eff that noise. a detail i forgot to include above is that the only difference between my two 5-gal batches is one was DH'ed while the other wasn't. the citra DH'ed batch was much tastier IMO. maybe it was because the citra melded with (or hid) the thiols well. regardless, i'll continue DH'ing my thiolized beers.

Purging the headspace after packaging (kegs) is another way to dial it back. This yeast was the first starter in three years to make its way on to my floor. It’s a beast.

i use the "fill to the brim with star san and push out with CO2" method to purge my kegs, then do a closed transfer, so i haven't had a chance to taste the impact of O2 on a thiolized beer. i'm ok with being deprived of this experience

another observation i should have included above: i can confirm that aroma lasted longer than with non-thiolized beers. the aroma changed a little over time (became a little more "thiolized"/jolly rancher/froot loops) but it was still smelling strong after 3 months.

 

[duelerx]

So are Cosmic and Helio derived from London Ale 3?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

So are Cosmic and Helio derived from London Ale 3?

They're derived from Omega's British Ale V (OYL-011), which is their version of London Ale III but as usual if it's not from the exactly the same stock then you can never say that they are identical.

This article gives the story :
https://omegayeast.com/all-about-our-thiolized-yeast-series

 

[duelerx]

They're derived from Omega's British Ale V (OYL-011), which is their version of London Ale III but as usual if it's not from the exactly the same stock then you can never say that they are identical.

This article gives the story :
https://omegayeast.com/all-about-our-thiolized-yeast-series

Cool, not sure if there is a thread but is it confirmed strains that come LAIII family are Omega Cosmic, Verdant, Omega British Ale V and Imperial Juice?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Cool, not sure if there is a thread but is it confirmed strains that come LAIII family are Omega Cosmic, Verdant, Omega British Ale V and Imperial Juice?

It's awkward for companies to admit that they "borrowed" strains from other companies, so normally you can only go on general characteristics. The closest you'll get is that some of the smaller companies will say a strain is "comparable" to one of the big names, but eg Omega has stopped doing that. So eg British Ale V "Compares to WY1318"
http://web.archive.org/web/20170721063550/http://www.omegayeast.com/portfolio/british-ale-v/
Per the link I gave you above, "Using CRISPR/Cas9, we were able to add this activated IRC7 into British V, creating our first Thiolized strain: Cosmic Punch."

And Lallemand/Verdant have been very open about the fact that their yeast originally started as London Ale III but has evolved since.