Oktoberfest/Marzen Grist

[MyQuL]

I would like to make an oktoberfest/marzen style beer. I've seen all kinds of recipes for the grist, everything from just munich malt to a grist of serveral different grain. Because of what I have in stock Im wondering if a grist of 1/3 Pilsner(actually lager malt as that what I have in) , 1/3 Munich and 1/3 Vienna will be appropriate for this beer style?

 

[BigEd]

The mix of 1/3 each Pilsner, Vienna, and Munich will make a very nice Festbier IMO.

 

[RedlegEd]

The mix of 1/3 each Pilsner, Vienna, and Munich will make a very nice Festbier IMO.

+1 ^^^ by another Ed! In addition, if you're doing a single infusion mash, I'd go high (154°-156°F) to accentuate the maltiness. Which yeast will you be using? Ed

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

5# Vienna malt
4.5# german Pilsner 2 lovibond
1# caramunich 56.0 srm

The grist for one I made last year for a party, was enjoyed by most. Yours should be fine!

 

[jmcquesten]

Use Biermunchers OktoberFast ale recipe. It works well as the ale that it's written for, but as a lager with wlp830, it is amazing.

 

[jmcquesten]

BierMuncher Oktoberfest Recipe


.......Lots of malt. Lots of sweet. Little to no hops aroma. Right at 5% ABV.

If I can mash this at around 156-158 and use a lower attenuating ale yeast, I can probably get this beer to finish around 1.017-18 from a 1.051 starting point. After one full week in the primary, I’ll still have 4 weeks to secondary and then a week to chill/carb in the keg.

Wish me luck.

View attachment 2646


Batch Size: 11.25 gal
Boil Size: 13.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.051 SG
Estimated Color: 12.7 SRM
View attachment 2645
Estimated IBU: 20.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 67.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
8.50 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM
5.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM)
4.00 lb Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM)
2.00 lb Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM)
2.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM)
1.00 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM)
2.00 oz Tettnang [3.20%] (60 min)
1.00 oz Tettnang [3.20%] (45 min)
1.00 oz Tettnang [3.20%] (30 min)

Will likely use a dry Safale-04 since it won't ferment as dry and I'm tryin to preserve some malt profile.
[/QUOTE]

 

[brewbama]

The mix of 1/3 each Pilsner, Vienna, and Munich will make a very nice Festbier IMO.

+1. Add a little Caramunich and some noble hops for a nice Classic O'fest.

 

[MyQuL]

+1 ^^^ by another Ed! In addition, if you're doing a single infusion mash, I'd go high (154°-156°F) to accentuate the maltiness. Which yeast will you be using? Ed

As I dont have a brewfridge I'm not going to do this as a proper lager. I'm either going to do it as pseudo lager using notty fermented at 14C using my brew bag. Or over here in the UK we can get a range of yeast from a place called cross my loof. Their real ale yeast is REALLY malty, like super malty but high attenuating (83% attenuation when I last used it). So I might use that fermented at 16C

 

[MyQuL]

+1. Add a little Caramunich and some noble hops for a nice Classic O'fest.

What percentage of the grist would you recommend?

 

[brewbama]

what percentage of the grist would you recommend?

~7-8% imho

 

[specharka]

Would not recommend using Caramunich or any other cara malts for making a "true" Oktoberfest. German festbier is both lighter and drier than the American counterpart, and in my opinion, substantially more balanced in flavor and aroma. You can make an excellent Marzen with the three base malts you've got, some noble hops, and lager yeast. If you're struggling for lack of temperature control, WLP029/WY1007 are excellent substitutes for lager yeast (so long as you keep fermentation temperatures under 64F/18C).

I made a similar beer (Maibock) a few months ago and it turned out fabulous. You could easily change the proportion of Pils/Vienna/Munich and come up with a completely different recipe:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=597672

 

[Steveruch]

You can make a variety of amber lagers using a combination of pilsner, vienna, and munich malts. The majority of munich would make an old style octoberfest, the majority of vienna would make a vienna, the majority being pilsner would make a modern festbeer.

 

[brewbama]

True enough. Though definitely not required, I was using BCS as my source for the 7% caramunich.

 

[BigEd]

You can make a variety of amber lagers using a combination of pilsner, vienna, and munich malts. The majority of munich would make an old style octoberfest, the majority of vienna would make a vienna, the majority being pilsner would make a modern festbeer.

That's a good summation. Re the crystal malt mentioned earlier in the thread, I'm in the don't use or use very little camp. I think the richness and maltiness of the base malts, especially Munich & Vienna, should be at the forefront in this beer. Also as mentioned earlier this beer should finish fairly dry. A big dose of crystal tends to make the beer a bit cloying IMO and adds too much of the wrong kind of sweetness.

 

[casualbrewer]

I made a really good octoberfest a while back. Used 4 pounds of 2 row, 4 pounds of vienna, 4 pounds of Munich, and 1/2lb of caramunich. Hopped with magnum to about 25-30 ibu. Came out amazing.

 

[MyQuL]

That's a good summation. Re the crystal malt mentioned earlier in the thread, I'm in the don't use or use very little camp. I think the richness and maltiness of the base malts, especially Munich & Vienna, should be at the forefront in this beer. Also as mentioned earlier this beer should finish fairly dry. A big dose of crystal tends to make the beer a bit cloying IMO and adds too much of the wrong kind of sweetness.

Thanks for this info. I've never even drank a commercial version let alone made one. I was under the impression this style was very malty and not very dry

 

[BigEd]

Thanks for this info. I've never even drank a commercial version let alone made one. I was under the impression this style was very malty and not very dry

The beer isn't dry, the finish is. A clean finish that entices you to have another beer is one of the things that marks a well-made version of this style and other German lager styles for that matter.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Thanks for this info. I've never even drank a commercial version let alone made one. I was under the impression this style was very malty and not very dry

Don't confuse 'malty' with 'sweet'. This is a beer that should be full of malt flavour, but finish dry so that it is still refreshing and very drinkable in large volumes.

What BigEd says is "not dry, but the finish is". This is correct. Munich malt tends to finish with a higher gravity than other base malts, but the remaining gravity points aren't from sugars that taste very sweet to us. You are looking to have these 'not so sweet' sugars left, that lend a maltiness to the beer (from munich, dark munich, etc) but making sure the beer is completely attenuated in terms of sugars that lend sweet/cloying aspects (good oxygenation, healthy ferment, enough yeast, moderate to highly attenuating yeast will ensure this). Using crystal malts will give a more American version of a marzen - they tend to be sweeter and richer than true marzens. Caramunich is a bit less sweet and caramelly (a bit more biscuity) than other crystal malts in the same colour range.

I've brewer both versions (all pils/vienna/munich and pils/vienna with 10% caramunich) and really like both as long as they have that dry finish. I tried one that used S-04 yeast and hated it - the upfront flavour was excellent, but I couldn't drink more than one or two because of the sweetness.

 

[MyQuL]

Don't confuse 'malty' with 'sweet'. This is a beer that should be full of malt flavour, but finish dry so that it is still refreshing and very drinkable in large volumes.

What BigEd says is "not dry, but the finish is". This is correct. Munich malt tends to finish with a higher gravity than other base malts, but the remaining gravity points aren't from sugars that taste very sweet to us. You are looking to have these 'not so sweet' sugars left, that lend a maltiness to the beer (from munich, dark munich, etc) but making sure the beer is completely attenuated in terms of sugars that lend sweet/cloying aspects (good oxygenation, healthy ferment, enough yeast, moderate to highly attenuating yeast will ensure this). Using crystal malts will give a more American version of a marzen - they tend to be sweeter and richer than true marzens. Caramunich is a bit less sweet and caramelly (a bit more biscuity) than other crystal malts in the same colour range.

I've brewer both versions (all pils/vienna/munich and pils/vienna with 10% caramunich) and really like both as long as they have that dry finish. I tried one that used S-04 yeast and hated it - the upfront flavour was excellent, but I couldn't drink more than one or two because of the sweetness.

I think I'll use notty then for my Ale version of the style as I find that has a dry finish

 

[brewbama]

Notti is not a bad choice. K-97 may work well also. MJ has a Cali Common that may do well. Several choices. Cheers!

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I think I'll use notty then for my Ale version of the style as I find that has a dry finish

Notty would be a good choice. W34/70 would also be an option if you could keep the ferment to about the 60F mark. W34/70 will taste more like lager than notty.

 

[kenlenard]

I have spoken with a number of homebrewers in Germany and some have mentioned that a Festbier can be as simple as 50% pilsner and 50% Munich 2 and then one hop addition at the beginning of the boil that gets you to 28 IBUs or so. I have made this beer and it was fantastic in it's simple design. I used Hallertau Mittelfruh for the hops and 2124 for the yeast last year when I made it. This year I'm going to do the same thing although I'm going to use 65% pils and 35% Munich 2 (I was surprised how much color I got from 50% Munich 2) and I'm going to use the Augustiner lager yeast (Omega Bayern lager) instead. Can't wait.

 

[brewbama]

+1

 

[lawdawg]

Agreed on the 34/70 idea. I'm considering doing an O'fest and a Maibock with 34/70 and basically using the Brulosophy "helles" fermentation idea with a mid 60's ferment temp. If I like the results of the helles then I will definitely be trying it on the O'fest and Maibock. I did the Kolsch yeast version of the helles and it turned out nice but now Brulosophy is saying they like the 34/70 version even better.