Oh HELL No! - Nightmare Brewing Session Last Night

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

SatanPrinceOfDarkness

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
118
Reaction score
23
Location
Philadelphia
Given my username, you might think I'm happy about all this. It all sucked a little bit, some of it could have been avoided, and all of it is a learning lesson.

I was brewing an all-grain kit that purports to be a Bell's Two-Hearted clone. Unfortunately I won't be able to do a real comparison, since this session went all wahoonie shaped. The recipe is on the Great Fermentations web site.

This was our first all-grain full-size brew. We have done a few mini/partial mashes and a micro all-grain batch. All of those went well, and our process was getting 60-70% efficiency for sugar extraction (cue ominous foreshadowing), using essentially a BIAB style infusion mash with no sparging.

I wanted to move to all-grain with minimal investment in equipment. We've been doing a ridiculous partial boil process utilizing two pots (combined 5 gallons volume) for maybe a 3.5 gallon boil. That actually works quite well for the boil.

I figured out I have a 6.5 gallon cooler sitting in the basement. It's about the size of my grain bag. Cool. I use the green bay mashers Can I Rack It calculator and determine I should be able to get 3.9 gallons of wort and 13lbs of grain in my cooler at the 5 gallon mark. If you're keeping track, that's a ratio of 1.2 qts per pound.

Used a calculator to determine my strike water temp. Grain at room temp - 75, desired temp 150, 13 lbs grain, strike water should be 168. (Later I used another calculator that told me 164.8). Poured my water over the grain bag, stirred constantly, and read the thermometer - 160. Wicked Tyrannical Fart-harpies!

:tank:

Let it cool for 15 minutes to 150, shut the cooler lid, stuck it in the oven, and got everything ready for the next 45 minutes.

We didn't want to do a full sparge. We couldn't really given our equipment. Here is where I start trying to change the actual course of events last night. I don't want to tell you about how I dunked a grain bag into a half gallon of water and said water bounced off the ceiling. I don't want to tell you that this wasn't the only major spill to occur in the next 10 minutes, and I don't want to tell you that our efficiency was only about 41%.

We ended up putting the bag back in the cooler (after moving the wort to our kettles), heating the water to about 190, and then backfilling over the grain to mash-out. Pulled the bag out into a colander, left to drain, moved mash back to kettles, and set out to boil.

Boil went okay, hops on schedule, no boil-overs, new dog didn't eat any hops, and I didn't forget to add the flame-out hops (like I did last time). :mug:Decided to try something new and added Irish Moss 10 minutes before flameout. 1 tsp for 5 gallons. We used 1 tsp for our ~3 gallons since we would be increasing to 5 gallons in fermenter.

Cool down went okay, took about 20 minutes in an ice bath.

Decided to whirlpool for the first time. Whirlpooled for about 5 minutes, left to sit for another 20.

Proceeded to siphon. Wort was straight up chunky. I'm not sure what the Irish Moss was supposed to do, but we ended up having thick soup wort from top to bottom after sitting for all that time. Maybe it will help later when moving to secondary. For now, it just clogged our siphon from the start.

So, here comes our most grievous mistake. We've been straining our wort into the fermenter lately. Usually I put my large funnel into fermenter, lay my grain bag in the funnel, and strain through that. It works pretty well. My brewing partner wanted to repeat that, but we hadn't sanitized the funnel, and we were ready to siphon. He manned the bottom end, and I handled the wand. So, we put the bag in the neck of the fermenter and started siphoning. It very quickly became apparent that we were getting MUCH MORE SOLIDS than we were used to. Presumably this was due to the Irish Moss. What also quickly became apparent was that we had created a butt plug shaped mass of wort solids INSIDE THE FERMENTER. I wish I had a picture. It ultimately was the size of a children's soccer ball. We're talking a 7" wide bag of **** inside a 1" opening. The stuff of nightmares, seriously.

We pulled, we yanked, we squeezed, we prayed. That bag was not coming out. I was reminded of the episode of South Park with the world's largest poops. :off:

We brought the carboy outside because things were getting messy. Somehow that plug kept squeezing out liquid, mostly down, but sometimes up and out when we really tugged. A teaspoon was too wide to fit into the carboy neck. Eventually, we had to use a spoon HANDLE to scoop the **** (and it really looked like nothing so much as goose poop). 20 minutes later we had about 2 gallons of low gravity wort, a bit of a mess, and it was already 12:30AM. BTW, the final plug we pull out absolutely had the shape and texture of a human turd. We used this knowledge to amuse ourselves. It was the symbol of our suffering and of our salvation.

Ultimately we ended up adding the little DME I had sitting around. Wheat DME. Not to recipe. We topped up the fermenter and had all of 1.041 OG. It was supposed be be a minimum of 1.06, possibly up to 1.07.

Oh, and one more thing. 12 hours in and no fermentation activity (smack pack).

:smack:

Anyone care for a, uhh, very sessionable wheat IPA?
 
I would recommend not pouring your wort through your spent grain bag. That seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

But other than that, I can't see what you did wrong (besides some spills and bad efficiency from lack of experience with the equipment)
 
Came here for pics, got emoticons. I feel gypped.

Bad brew day man, but I think you need to reassess your straining process for sure.
 
Bells Two-Hearted sounds like a lot of hops. Before we used hop bags, we used to strain over the lid of a bucket, and often times, there would be enough trub that THAT would get slowed to a crawl. It sounds like you're going into a carboy - that would be impossible to me on most brews. I guess you did say you whirlpooled, so maybe that helps. I <3 hop bags though.


Now, regardless of whether or not you have your own ideas for improvements to try, you have to go into the AG forum to post the next "Did not hit my OG / what is wrong w/my efficiency" thread and see if you hit the 1,000,000th efficiency post. I think the winner gets confetti, fanfare, and HBT buys them a fully automated electric rig.
 
I LOL'd at the whole filtering through the grain bag thing. I was doing a 2 gallon Pumpkin Ale last year and did the same exact thing. I was going to ferment in a Mr. Beer LBK (which has quite a bit larger opening than a Carboy/Better Bottle); instead of adding the pumpkin to the nylon bag and then into the boil (as I had done successfully in the past), I had the brilliant idea to just dump the pumpkin straight into the kettle and then put the grain bag into the LBK to filter out the solids from the pumpkin + the cold break. The mass of pumpkin + cold break made the bag way too large to pull out - it was a huge mess and I ended up losing like half of the wort, but my gravity ended up higher than expected, so I just topped it off with water and called it a day.

It was not a good beer - drinkable, but not good.
 
Came here for pics, got emoticons. I feel gypped.

Bad brew day man, but I think you need to reassess your straining process for sure.

okay, okay. Here's a pic of a cooler inside an oven. And here's a pic of my brewing partner and his new dog (literally got her yesterday) making out.

IMG_20150520_200520706.jpg


IMG_20150520_214143557.jpg
 
I would recommend not pouring your wort through your spent grain bag. That seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

But other than that, I can't see what you did wrong (besides some spills and bad efficiency from lack of experience with the equipment)

To be clear, it's a reusable bag and it had been cleaned. We've had good luck doing this before. Combining it with the funnel works wonders because you can kind of stir the solids to keep it from clogging.
 
Now, regardless of whether or not you have your own ideas for improvements to try, you have to go into the AG forum to post the next "Did not hit my OG / what is wrong w/my efficiency" thread and see if you hit the 1,000,000th efficiency post. I think the winner gets confetti, fanfare, and HBT buys them a fully automated electric rig.

Ha- ha, for sure! My only question really is what happens as the temperature of the mash changes. That is, when I missed my temperature, did I instantly lose all chance of converting at the right temp, or did conversion continue/accelerate as the temperature decreased. I'm not too worried as I'll dial in my strike water temps later.
 
Ha- ha, for sure! My only question really is what happens as the temperature of the mash changes. That is, when I missed my temperature, did I instantly lose all chance of converting at the right temp, or did conversion continue/accelerate as the temperature decreased. I'm not too worried as I'll dial in my strike water temps later.

I'll implore you to search the other 999,999 efficiency threads for information and knowledge, but will say that mashing in a little high shouldn't really affect your efficiency. If anything, it would lead to a less-fermentable wort as it would be heavy on alpha amylase activity, but since you got it down to 150 in probably a decently short time-frame, probably not too big of a deal there either. Denaturing of enzymes isn't a flash-point, it happens over time and on a gradual slope, ex:

https://missionarybrewer.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/enzyme_activity_one_hour_mash.jpg

Doughing in by pouring your strike water over your bag of grain will give a head start to efficiency challenges, as I would imagine that would result in doughball city.
 
Only lost 1 degree in 45 minutes. Preheat to lowest temp allowed for awhile, turn off, insert cooler.

A cooler is an insulator, I doubt that the oven being on the lowest setting had much effect on how much temp you lost during your 45? min mash.

How did you crush your grains? How much did you stir when you mashed in?

Topping off with low conversion to begin with didn't help any either. You should be sparging to volume if it is a restriction of kettle/mash tun size. Could have done "two" sparges in different vessels if you really needed to.

Definitely some major problems to address, but none of which really pertain to the bulk of your story. A spill here or there won't kill a beer, but 41% efficiency will.

This coming from a guy that used to do BIAB mashes in a 5 gal kettle, sparge to volume and do a split boil to put 5.5 gal in the fermenter.

Lose the strainer too.

What was your pre-boil OG?

Edit: Just saw that 1.041 was after topping up.
 
I don't think it was the Irish Moss that gave you solids in your wort. I use it religiously and have never had any issues at all... Its all about trial and error. First time I did an all grain and used an ice chest as a mash tun I spill crap all over the place because I tried to poor into the brew kettle. Lesson learned install a spigot...
 
A cooler is an insulator, I doubt that the oven being on the lowest setting had much effect on how much temp you lost during your 45? min mash.

How did you crush your grains? How much did you stir when you mashed in?

I did a water test with water and the cooler by itself previously and it lost 7 degrees in an hour. I've also used kettle in the oven before for mashing, and lost about 10 degrees in an hour. The guy at the LHBS recommended the over first. The idea is to increase the ambient temperature.

As for crushing - I ordered them and they came pre-crushed. I don't really have an eye to tell how much they were crushed, but I could see they were cracked open. I stirred plenty I think and didn't feel any lumps.
 
Cooler in the oven... I'm not sure if funny or sad.

Actually, I think it is a rather clever solution. That is, unless it came into contact with a heating element. But assuming not, an hour long sit in a 150 degree oven would not harm the cooler in any way.


A cooler is an insulator, I doubt that the oven being on the lowest setting had much effect on how much temp you lost during your 45? min mash.

This may not necessarily be true, depending upon the quality of his cooler. If it is a high quality cooler, sure it probably does not need to be in the oven. However, when I started all grain, I struggled sometimes in maintaining temps in a cooler. Sometimes, especially in winter, it was necessary for me to wrap the cooler in a blanket or to infuse with hot water before the end of the mash. Having the ambient temperature [in the oven] be the same temperature as your target mash temp negates any shortcomings in a cooler's ability to insulate and pretty much guarantees no temp loss. No cooler is a perfect insulator, however some [probably most] are effective enough that the temp loss during a typical mash is negligible. Cheap and/or poorly sealed coolers on the other hand can lose enough heat to cause concern.

Being that this was his first time, it certainly is not a bad safeguard, in my opinion.
 
I did a water test with water and the cooler by itself previously and it lost 7 degrees in an hour. I've also used kettle in the oven before for mashing, and lost about 10 degrees in an hour. The guy at the LHBS recommended the over first. The idea is to increase the ambient temperature.

As for crushing - I ordered them and they came pre-crushed. I don't really have an eye to tell how much they were crushed, but I could see they were cracked open. I stirred plenty I think and didn't feel any lumps.

Just trying to get to the bottom of your efficiency issue, I can't imagine getting 40% efficiency.

I got 60% on my first batch because I did a terrible job crushing, now I'm up to ~76% mash efficiency with BIAB typically. A lot of us BIABers grind to a coarse/floury consistency, but there are others who use a more standard crush and still get very good efficiency.
 
all of it is a learning lesson

this right here being the absolute top take away from it all. Sometimes the brewgods are not pleased, and there's not a dam thing you can do about it except chalk it all up to 'won't do THAT again'.
I do like the mash tun in the oven idea. I'll try to remember <squirrel> that next winter.
 
Just trying to get to the bottom of your efficiency issue, I can't imagine getting 40% efficiency.

I got 60% on my first batch because I did a terrible job crushing, now I'm up to ~76% mash efficiency with BIAB typically. A lot of us BIABers grind to a coarse/floury consistency, but there are others who use a more standard crush and still get very good efficiency.

I have a few candidates for my lost efficiency:
  • The almost complete lack of sparge.
  • Unknowns concerned with the crush - maybe it wasn't even crushed. I need to look at some pictures. The company said it would be shipped crushed.
  • A low water:grain ratio (1.2 qts/lb).
  • I didn't weigh the damn grain. I ordered it, the bag showed up, I brewed it. I should have weighed the thing. I have another kit from them which I will definitely weigh.
  • And hmm, maybe I should have squeezed my grain bag.
 
Here's some things to try next time:
Look at your grain do see if its crushed properly, there shouldn't be very many un crushed grains.
Get a valve and piece of tubing for the cooler if you don't already have that.
Pre- heat the cooler/mashtun with hot tap water. Dump mashtun preheat water into a bucket and do the dishes with it or wash the dog an/or the floor.
Sorry I'm a cheapscate and don't waste hot water. You could also use the preheat water for the batch sparge, but it will have to go to the brew kettle to heat to the proper temp.
Add strike water before adding the grain. I've used the greenbay rackers calculators many times with no problems.
Use BK to heat water for a batch sparge.
Skip the oven, your cooler will keep the temp just fine.
When mash is done, add 1 gallon or so of boiling water (from another pot) or whatever amount the GB rackers calculator says to use to raise the mash temp for mashout. Drain first runnings to bucket, then add sparge water from BK to cooler. Add first runnings to BK and get on stove to get started getting up to boiling.
I stir in my batch sparge water then let it sit for 10 mins, others just add the sparge water and drain right away.
Drain batch sparge to bucket, then add to BK.
You should be able to hit at least 70% doing it that way.
I let my wort sit overnight (with the lid on) in a washtub with cold water and ice blocks and siphon to the fermentor in the AM. Most of the kettle trub settles out and its easy to transfer the wort without any solid material.
 
Last edited:
If you have small equipment, make small batches.

I can do five gallons but it pushes my equipment to
the limit. Not good.

Doing 2.5 gallon batches, everything just works together
a LOT better. Yeah, 2.5 is almost the same amount of
work as 5 gallons but, use what you have. Plus, I get
to brew more often.

All the Best,
D. White
 

Latest posts

Back
Top