Off-Flavor Help

[BigDogJeepin]

First time poster, long time lurker. I wonder if you all can tell me if an infection can make a beer taste sherry-like. I know that it normally means HSA but for my last batch, I made absolutely certain there was no HSA. My LHBS guy described it as "tart, sweet and alcoholic" and diagnosed high ferment temps but my most recent three never got warmer than 65*. This same flavor has ruined my last four batches (I have 20 or so under by belt). I planned to brew today but crap, I hate dumping beer! I'm holding off until I get this diagnosed and fixed.

Dumped batches:
Honey nut brown (two batches)
German Wheat
BM's Ocktoberfast

 

[duboman]

First time poster, long time lurker. I wonder if you all can tell me if an infection can make a beer taste sherry-like. I know that it normally means HSA but for my last batch, I made absolutely certain there was no HSA. My LHBS guy described it as "tart, sweet and alcoholic" and diagnosed high ferment temps but my most recent three never got warmer than 65*. This same flavor has ruined my last four batches (I have 20 or so under by belt). I planned to brew today but crap, I hate dumping beer! I'm holding off until I get this diagnosed and fixed. Dumped batches: Honey nut brown (two batches) German Wheat BM's Ocktoberfast

Sherry like is also oxidation. Hot, sweet, alcoholic could be associated with stressed yeast and under pitching. Are you using liquid yeast and making starters? Also at 65 your beer could actually be 5-8 degrees higher during active fermentation, is 65 your ambient?

 

[BigDogJeepin]

Thanks for the quick reply. No starters, Wyeast packs and the Octoberfast was Safale-04 rehydrated and pitched. I always get bubbles within 24hrs. Temps were monitored with thermometer probe stuck through the lid. Fermentor temps were controlled with an ice bath. I aerate and pitch yeast at 65*.

 

[smizak]

No starters is an issue. My first couple beers were without starters and they had weird yeast characters. I've never been a fan of ice baths, the temp swings could be causing the yeast to stress. HSA is a boogie man, my wort splashes two feet down to the kettle from my mash tun and my beers are clean as a whistle. Get some better temp control and use Mr. Malty to calculate your starter size. Never failed me.

 

[eastoak]

First time poster, long time lurker. I wonder if you all can tell me if an infection can make a beer taste sherry-like. I know that it normally means HSA but for my last batch, I made absolutely certain there was no HSA. My LHBS guy described it as "tart, sweet and alcoholic" and diagnosed high ferment temps but my most recent three never got warmer than 65*. This same flavor has ruined my last four batches (I have 20 or so under by belt). I planned to brew today but crap, I hate dumping beer! I'm holding off until I get this diagnosed and fixed.

Dumped batches:
Honey nut brown (two batches)
German Wheat
BM's Ocktoberfast

yes, an infection can make a beer taste sherry like. schedule a sanitation day for your brewing gear where all you do is wash and sanitize everything you brew with including valves and hoses that carry cooled wort. the next beer you brew pay close attention to the yeast pitch needed and make an appropriate starter or use dry yeast (you could also call your local craft brewery and see if they would give you yeast slurry, mine does). with sanitation, yeast pitch and fermentation temperature controlled you should notice a change in the finished beer.

 

[Yooper]

yes, an infection can make a beer taste sherry like. schedule a sanitation day for your brewing gear where all you do is wash and sanitize everything you brew with including valves and hoses that carry cooled wort. the next beer you brew pay close attention to the yeast pitch needed and make an appropriate starter or use dry yeast (you could also call your local craft brewery and see if they would give you yeast slurry, mine does). with sanitation, yeast pitch and fermentation temperature controlled you should notice a change in the finished beer.

I have never heard that infection can make a beer taste sherry-like. Which bacteria strain could do that? I always think of off flavors caused by infection the flavors caused by common infections like pediococcus, lactobacillus, brettanamyces, etc, and I don't know of a beer infection that would taste like sherry.

"Sherry" is commonly due to oxidation, though, and that sweet brandy-like flavor in big barleywines is the same note I get when a beer has slight to moderate oxidation.

 

[eastoak]

I have never heard that infection can make a beer taste sherry-like. Which bacteria strain could do that? I always think of off flavors caused by infection the flavors caused by common infections like pediococcus, lactobacillus, brettanamyces, etc, and I don't know of a beer infection that would taste like sherry.

"Sherry" is commonly due to oxidation, though, and that sweet brandy-like flavor in big barleywines is the same note I get when a beer has slight to moderate oxidation.

you are right about oxidation and i did not mean to exclude that rather i was including an infection as a possibility. i brew lots of sour beer (maybe 40% of my production) using the dregs of russian river, jolly pumpkin, sante adarius and other commercial sour beers. sherry is one of the flavors i often encounter in my sours and in commercial sour beer too. what specific yeast or bacteria causes this flavor is not known to me.

 

[BigDogJeepin]

Making a starter is easy enough. However, Mr Malty did say one packet of dry was enough for that brew. Any chance my wooden mash spoon that also stirs cooling wort could contribute something causing this flavor? I'm at a loss as to how oxidation could have occurred at all on the last brew.

 

[eastoak]

a mash wooden spoon should not be used to stir cooling wort since it's pretty hard to sanitize wood and there is a chance that the spoon could have some souring bacteria or yeast on it.

 

[duboman]

Making a starter is easy enough. However, Mr Malty did say one packet of dry was enough for that brew. Any chance my wooden mash spoon that also stirs cooling wort could contribute something causing this flavor? I'm at a loss as to how oxidation could have occurred at all on the last brew.

It is nearly impossible to sanitize a wooden spoon so do not use it once the wort has cooled as it can harbor all types of nasties absorbed in the wood, yes it is possible that your issues stem from using an un sanitized wooden spoon to stir your cooled wort

 

[Oddball]

"Sherry" is commonly due to oxidation, though, and that sweet brandy-like flavor in big barleywines is the same note I get when a beer has slight to moderate oxidation.

I am not trying to hijack your thread BigDog but I have had two recent batches that have the same characteristics to what has been described as well. They were very different beers (Cali Commons and oatmeal stout), but have a very similar tartness to them. I have a fermentation chamber so that isn't the issue. However, the one thing that these two batches have in common is that I recently had to cut my siphon hose to use for a blow off. Due to being shortened, it didn't reach the bottom of my bottling bucket. I tried to keep it on the wall but know that there were times that I stepped away from them and it may have splashed a little. Yooper, could this minor aeration really cause off flavors or should I look at other culprits?