Octoberfest Kit, no bubbling after 72 hours

[gdrescher]

I've made many Ale kits, on my first lager kit.
Directions said to pitch yeast directly into ferm bucket.
then put into 52-60 degrees controlled area.
I have a chest freezer set up to 56 degrees.

No bubbles after 3 days.

keep waiting?
raise the temp to get things started?
put in more yeast?

by the way it smells great when I peeked in.

 

[Kaz]

Was this liquid or dry yeast? There are no bubbles, what about krausen or foam on top of the wort? I would give it more time, if you didn't make a starter and/or the wort was low on nutrients/oxygen, it can take longer to get started.

 

[Revvy]

Bubblling or lack of means nothing, take a gravity reading. If you want to know what's going on with your beer, then that's what you use. The only way to truly know what is going on in your fermenter is with your hydrometer. Like I said here in my blog, which I encourage you to read, Think evaluation before action you sure as HELL wouldn't want a doctor to start cutting on you unless he used the proper diagnostic instuments like x-rays first, right? You wouldn't want him to just take a look in your eyes briefly and say "I'm cutting into your chest first thing in the morning." You would want them to use the right diagnostic tools before the slice and dice, right? You'd cry malpractice, I would hope, if they didn't say they were sending you for an MRI and other things before going in....

You don't just throw more yeast at the situation, you don't even know if oyu have a problem.

Thinking about "doing anything" like repitching, or bottling, or racking, without first taking a hydrometer reading is tantamount to the doctor deciding to cut you open without running any diagnostic tests....Taking one look at you and saying, "Yeah I'm going in." You would really want the doctor to use all means to properly diagnose what's going on?

 

[Stauffbier]

My Oktoberfest that I fermented with WLP810 San Francisco Lager yeast hardly ever bubbled for the month it was in primary, but it fermented out just fine. I'm learning to ignore bubbles (or a lack there-of) in my air lock...

 

[gdrescher]

Good advice. Medical analogies are entirely appropriate when it comes to brewing beer.
Both are incredibly important and make life better.

Like I said, first lager.
Every ale done to date bubbles like crazy. I don't take a reading until it has stopped.

it was dry yeast directly into the wort and stirred.

 

[gstrawn]

Bubblling or lack of means nothing, take a gravity reading. If you want to know what's going on with your beer, then that's what you use. The only way to truly know what is going on in your fermenter is with your hydrometer. Like I said here in my blog, which I encourage you to read, Think evaluation before action you sure as HELL wouldn't want a doctor to start cutting on you unless he used the proper diagnostic instuments like x-rays first, right? You wouldn't want him to just take a look in your eyes briefly and say "I'm cutting into your chest first thing in the morning." You would want them to use the right diagnostic tools before the slice and dice, right? You'd cry malpractice, I would hope, if they didn't say they were sending you for an MRI and other things before going in....

You don't just throw more yeast at the situation, you don't even know if oyu have a problem.

Thinking about "doing anything" like repitching, or bottling, or racking, without first taking a hydrometer reading is tantamount to the doctor deciding to cut you open without running any diagnostic tests....Taking one look at you and saying, "Yeah I'm going in." You would really want the doctor to use all means to properly diagnose what's going on?

I seem to recall seeing a very similar post to this before...........

 

[Stauffbier]

I seem to recall seeing a very similar post to this before...........

I think I have read about 15 posts by Revvy where he says pretty much the exact same thing....

 

[EllisTX]

I think in this instance Revvy's post is actually pretty helpful. When someone with 4 posts asks a question the standard Revvy answer is the right way to go.

 

[Piratwolf]

To the OP.. I feel your pain. I think all of us go through that uncertainty when we switch to something new. I've just begun all grain & am constantly wondering what I've messed up in my beloved BEvERage by not knowing enough. I hope you'll post what comes out of this so I know what to look for when I get around to lagering!

I seem to recall seeing a very similar post to this before...........

It's funny to me that I've seen a number of posts jumping on Revvy recently, but nobody ever says that about the "No bubbles in my fermenter" posts.

My eyes glaze over after I read the first few lines of Revvy's standard post, too, but that's not because he's wrong... it's because I've read it a hundred times because... wait for it.. there are about 30 "No bubbles in my airlock" posts a week.

[/rant]

 

[rjsnau]

Did you make a starter? Typically lagers will need at least 4 packs of liquid yeast without a starter or a 4 quart starter approx. If you only pitched the one pack then you may have a really slow fermentation. And Lagers ferment slow to begin with. The Oktoberfest I did I pitched a gallon starter and it still barley had any airlock activity until day 4 and then it was maybe a bubble every 15 seconds or so compared to one every second with most my ales.

Edit: Just saw you used dry yeast. I believe you are still supposed to use two packs so it make be a bit under pitched.

+1 for getting a hydrometer. It is the only way to know if it is fermenting or not. Other than that lagers will test every ounce of patience you have.

 

[gdrescher]

Update: 1st I appreciate the Revvy response. That is why I am on this site.
I'm also good with "newbie don't know nothin" statements. I agree I don't know a thing about lagering.


I did take a hydrometer reading at the outset. 1.050, 4 days later it is still 1.050.

It looks just like it did, smells great, nothing floating around on the top.

The kit came with one packet of yeast. I followed the directions which said put it right in, dry and stir it into the wort.

I guess my question is the same... how long do I wait? If I get no change in hydrometer by day 7?
I do understand that the lager method is a slower process.

I've made Ales, Cider, Appleweizen, (to lazy to look up the spelling) and most recently several wine kits and have never had a fermet issue, so I guess it is about time I had an issue.

thanks for the feedback.
I look forward to the continued learning and beverage tasting.

 

[gdrescher]

Update...
After 7 days no movement according to gravity readings at 4 days then at 7, I took the bucket out of my super nifty freezer/fridge set at 56 degrees to lager and set in my basement at 68 degrees.
12 hours later, bubbling starts.
I left at 68 for 12 hours and placed back in the lager fridge at 58 degrees.

I take a gravity in 4 or 5 days and let you know.

Am a I making a mistake?
Have I cured my issue?

Any thoughts on why I had no fermentation at 56 degrees, the temp at which directions the kit gave me?

 

[das]

gdrescher,

I'm a Noob as well. My 1st extract was an Octoberfest. Same problem as you. I also listened to Revvy, and all the others here. After 72 hours of 1.054 OG, I repitched 2 packs of rehydrated Saflager S23. Beer came out great for my 1st batch. I had a bit of starch haze but still very tasty.

I also no longer pitch dry. I rehydrate and/or wash and repitch yeast with great results. (I was a bit pissed off after paying $6.99 EA for the Saflager S23) Get that Wort fermenting! Cheers.

 

[gdrescher]

Thanks Das

I'm hoping the temp change got things started and it will ferment.

You would think that a kit would give a few "what if's"

I've been doing kits since 1997 and this is the first ferment issue I've had.
It is my first lager.

 

[Stauffbier]

My Oktoberfest moved really slow once initial fermentation started.. I was lucky if the gravity dropped .001 every 24 hours. It sat in primary for a month before it finally hit FG. I've had it lagering at 42F for a little over 1.5 weeks now. I'm going to lager this one until the end of January more or less. It's also my first lager, and it has been totally different than my ales in every way. It's a learning experience for sure. Check that gravity of yours soon, because if you need to re-pitch it might be getting a little late in the game!

 

[gdrescher]

thanks Stauffbier

That's pretty much been my question.
7 days... no movement on gravity.
What should I do?

Not getting any clear direction other than take gravity reading...

I put in 68 degree temp for 12 hours and by golly ferment started.
Then after 12 more hours (now day 8) I put back in Lager temp, 58.

I will check gravity in a couple of days to see any change.

It certainly is a different experience this lagering thing....

I do appreciate the feedback.

 

[das]

I work with a guy who's been an "All Grainer" for 30+ years. He said, his guess would be that I shocked the yeast dormant after pitching. (I pitched and placed in fridge.) I've also read that here a few times.

I think what I remember reading is that for a Lager, temp drops need to be very slow & gradual down to proper fermentation temps. And I do agree... kit instructions probably need to be more specific at times.

I also believe if they made drinkable beer 10K years ago; (without any of the technology we have today...) by following basic procedures, all is good.

 

[Stauffbier]

thanks Stauffbier

That's pretty much been my question.
7 days... no movement on gravity.
What should I do?

Not getting any clear direction other than take gravity reading...

I put in 68 degree temp for 12 hours and by golly ferment started.
Then after 12 more hours (now day 8) I put back in Lager temp, 58.

I will check gravity in a couple of days to see any change.

It certainly is a different experience this lagering thing....

I do appreciate the feedback.

I'm not the authority on homebrewing, but if I was in your shoes i would;
1) Check gravity sooner than later now that you've seen what you think might be active fermentation. It would be good to see where it stands at this point. I'd probably do it tonight if it were me. If you've had any decent amount of drop in gravity then just let it ride and be patient with it. If not, then the next step would depend on what the reading actually is. If no movement at all, you need to re-pitch asap IMO..
2) Read up on your yeast and maybe push the temp to the high end of the ideal ferm temps it calls for. If I remember, you said 60F was the high point. So, maybe bump it up a bit just in case your initial few days of fermentation were too cold. The first day or two on a lager should start at the high end on temps, then you can slowly drop to a lower temp.

Again, I'm still pretty new at this, too. With that said, these recommendations are based on what I would do. That doesn't mean I'm right. I think the best thing you can do is relax and realize that this is your first lager and you need to leave room for error on this batch. It might end up great, and it might not. Either way it will be a learning experience. Next time you do a lager use liquid yeast and also use Mrmalty to calculate your pitching rate....

 

[gdrescher]

Update...
Based on this experience, starting a lager at the high end of fermentation temp. probably was a good idea.
I'm still bubbling away.

Hope it is completed by this weekend for a rack into the secondary.

 

[das]

Just checking on ya; and to see if you "saved it."

 

[solbes]

I'm about to brew my first lager this weekend (Munich 2308), so I've been reading up. Hope your batch turns out great.

Biggest change I'm making is to get a solid 4 quart starter ready. It's at 1.5 qts right now, and will add another 2.5 qts tonight. Hope to let it ferment out, drop the yeast, decant starter beer, and warm to ~ 50 before pitching it on Sunday.

 

[gdrescher]

The move to warmer tempt proved the key... Fermentation took off, hit the gravity goal and it is now in lager mode for the next 2-3 weeks.

I'll post pics bottling day.