Not enough power I think

[reese9885]

Soo finally got my E-herms system finally built and I was trying to run it with 110v. So I fired the HLT up for the first time with only 4 gallons of water for a test run. I have 2 elements both 110v 2000w each running from 2 different breakers in the house. so they dont overload and trip.. and ive set it up so I can it manually turn 1 off/on or have it controlled with the thermostat...anyways I fired it up with 1 elements on got it up to 70 degrees Celsius max so fired 2nd element up which brought it up to 90 degrees. Havent been able to it 100 yet to achieve boiling. I did purchase insulation and going design a lid for my keggle. so I think I can hit boiling with the help of those items but thats only a 4 gallon batch. Doubt I could go much bigger and still hit boiling... so any thoughts would be appreciated for those bigger batches. I hit a creative block myself....

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[Brumateur]

Something really wrong with your setup. I was able to bring to boil 10Gal using only one 2000Watt element. Yes it took more than 2 hours. But it was boiling then.
Are you sure your elements 2000watt 110V not a 2000Watt 220V?

 

[reese9885]

Positive.. I didnt wait 2 hours only did it for an hour but didnt seem to be increasing anymore.. yours insulated at all?

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[kenh]

This article I found and book marked a while ago will convince you to design your lid before you try again!
http://www.instructables.com/id/Homebrewing-Brew-Kettle-BTU-Calculations/

 

[reese9885]

Nice article... so basically said its about impossible to do with 2000w elements need something higher...didnt mention multiple elements though... and the higher elements need 240v to run at full capacity. Only problem with that is my 240v outlet is 20ft or so away from the area im brewing... and I dont see 240v extension cords that long... well there are but they are $150 and buying that doesnt appeal to me at all

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[Brumateur]

you can buy 4-10 Ga SOOW cord at Home Depot or from electric supply companies . it costs something around $2.5 per foot.

 

[Brad2287]

I used this cord

http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-25-ft-10-4-Generator-Cord-615-18046AB/100665722

By the time I would have bought the l14-30 male and female plugs and wire it was either the same price or cheaper just to buy the premade cord for me.

On my old setup i was running two 1650 watt elements. I had no problem bringing 6 gallon to a boil in a halfway reasonable time. Are you sure both elements are firing 100% of the time.

 

[LordUlrich]

My system is a 2000 W element in a keg, my batches have about a 8 gallon preboil volume. It does take a while to get to a boil, so I start the element as soon as the element is covered, but it will boil. It is not a extremely active boil but it is enough, and is consistent (which is important). I insulation around the kettle which is basically metal bubble wrap, it cuts down the time quite a bit.

So it is possible, but not real fast.

 

[Brumateur]

Nice article... so basically said its about impossible to do with 2000w elements need something higher..

it's not exactly true. All thaf numbers are for "a steel tank with no insulation". But even basic thermoinsulation changes picture significantly. Once I did measure heat loss for my 13 gallon kettle at 190F. With a cheap ThermoKing insulation loss was about 350 Watt.
"

 

[reese9885]

Well after I get it all insulated and a insulated lid on it ill test run again... if it fails to boil again ill start checking into 240v... but that cord you listed I have 1 issue my dryer outlet is a 4 prong outlet how would you wire that cord ?

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[MercMan]

Nice article... so basically said its about impossible to do with 2000w elements need something higher...didnt mention multiple elements though... and the higher elements need 240v to run at full capacity. Only problem with that is my 240v outlet is 20ft or so away from the area im brewing... and I dont see 240v extension cords that long... well there are but they are $150 and buying that doesnt appeal to me at all

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www

 

[MercMan]

Well after I get it all insulated and a insulated lid on it ill test run again... if it fails to boil again ill start checking into 240v... but that cord you listed I have 1 issue my dryer outlet is a 4 prong outlet how would you wire that cord ?

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Check out eBay, last I looked you could buy 240V 30 Amp extension cords on eBay for a lot less than Home Depot prices.

 

[dlaramie08]

Something is wrong with your elements, or only one is firing. I run two 1500w 120v elements and I achieve a boil on 7 gallons of wort for my 5.5 gallon batches. I was able to do this even before my kettle was insulated. If your two 2000w 120v elements won't work then they have been mislabeled as 240v, or your voltage is way low.

 

[kenh]

Nice article... so basically said its about impossible to do with 2000w elements need something higher...didnt mention multiple elements though... and the higher elements need 240v to run at full capacity. Only problem with that is my 240v outlet is 20ft or so away from the area im brewing... and I dont see 240v extension cords that long... well there are but they are $150 and buying that doesnt appeal to me at all

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It's not my article but when I read it I was surprised at how much heat is lost through evaporation even before I reach boil. After I read the article I started putting a lid on my hot liquor tank and brew pot. I've learned to listen to my brew pot and I can hear when it's close to boil then I remove the lid.

I'm sure I use less power than I used to and my brew day is about 30 minutes shorter than it was!

 

[Brad2287]

The cord I listed is four prong but does not fit a standard dryer outlet. I have the cord running to a 50 amp gfci spa panel that has a l14 -30 receptacle mounted in it. The gfci is essential to electric brewing for saftey and this tends to be one of the cheapest ways to install it for 30-50 amps. From the spa panel I have a 6 ft 4 prong dryer cord that goes to the wall outlet.

So I I guess after it is all said and done this was probably 150-200 dollars and based on your previous post might be a little spendy. I would investigate why your two 2000 watt elements are not able to boil. I suspect more is going on being that many people can get more than 4 gallons to a boil with similar set ups. I was able to get a larger volume to boil with less power and no insulation without a lid. I would find a clamp on ampmeter to see if you are in fact drawing as much amperage as you should be. Also what is the resistance of your elements. You are positive they are 2000 watts?

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[reese9885]

This is the exact element I have running http://m.homedepot.com/p/Camco-2000...Density-Water-Heater-Element-15120/204219916/

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[augiedoggy]

Well after I get it all insulated and a insulated lid on it ill test run again... if it fails to boil again ill start checking into 240v... but that cord you listed I have 1 issue my dryer outlet is a 4 prong outlet how would you wire that cord ?

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4 prong is what you need to install a gfci which you will need to be safe... they are $59 at home depot or you can just swap your panel breaker with a gf I unit but they cost more for some silly reason. The wire is cheap as others mentioned (solid core is like 1 dollar a ft).... you can also find marine application 220 cords with gfci units built in....I wish I only had to go 20 ft.... I had to install a line at the breaker and run it through the walls to a second floor bedroom that I use. Two wires are hot one is a ground and one is neutral and there are countless threads here covering this if you use the search function.

 

[reese9885]

.

 

[dogpoundbrewery]

I used the same 2000 watt element in my HLT and boil kettle just to do leak tests and boil test on my equipment while I was waiting for parts to put together a controller for 2 5500 elements . It took me an hour and 20 minutes to bring 10 gallons from tap to mash temp of 154 and about 2 hours to a full boil . It seems like your elements are heating right

 

[Indian_villager]

I have two 1500w elements bring my ~6.75gal boils to full temp with no issue. Something is up on your end. Are you sure you didnt pick up 240V elements?

 

[augiedoggy]

.

?? you were going to say? please comment to help others out if you found the source of your issue.

 

[sennister]

Ohm's law and a multimeter is great way to find problems.

Measure voltage at outlet.

Measure resistance of element.

http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/ohms_law_calculator.php

If you measure 110v and about 6 ohms resistance you are in the 2000 watt range. My point is that you can verify things with pretty basic tools and a calculator or a web calculator in about 2 minutes.

 

[kal]

This isn't really the case here but some others who come across this thread may find this bit of information useful:

When testing an electric brewing setup using a large volume of water, you won't get to get much of a vigorous boil at all as large volumes of water are difficult to get into a nice rolling boil. Do the same with wort and it'll be churning like crazy.

I get a lot of emails from electric brewers first testing their setups and the questions always the same: I can't get a good vigorous boil with my heating element - why?

Kal

 

[kenh]

This isn't really the case here but some others who come across this thread may find this bit of information useful:

When testing an electric brewing setup using a large volume of water, you won't get to get much of a vigorous boil at all as large volumes of water are difficult to get into a nice rolling boil. Do the same with wort and it'll be churning like crazy.

I get a lot of emails from electric brewers first testing their setups and the questions always the same: I can't get a good vigorous boil with my heating element - why?

Kal

I agree with Kal, you don't need the vigorous boil. I watch friends of mine who brew with propane work to maintain as active a boil as possible without a boil-over. They believe they have to maintain a vigorous boil to get rid of as many suspended proteins as possible. These days as long as I get a rolling boil I'm happy and my beer is every bit as good as their beer is. And I get as much or more trube out of my brew even with a slow rolling boil.

I'm still happy that I switched from stove top brewing to brewing with a 240V element and I would never willingly go back!

 

[kal]

I agree with Kal, you don't need the vigorous boil...

Sorry - but I think you may have mis-understood my post. I was trying to explain that if only using water the boil will not appear vigorous. Replace the water with wort and it will appear much more vigorous.

I do think that a vigorous boil is required when boiling wort to maximize alpha acid extraction from the hops, drive off unwanted volatile compounds, and coagulate unwanted proteins. So I guess we disagree.

Kal

 

[kenh]

Sorry - but I think you may have mis-understood my post. I was trying to explain that if only using water the boil will not appear vigorous. Replace the water with wort and it will appear much more vigorous.

I do think that a vigorous boil is required when boiling wort to maximize alpha acid extraction from the hops, drive off unwanted volatile compounds, and coagulate unwanted proteins. So I guess we disagree.

Kal

Maybe not, how vigorous? I get a good rolling boil off my element it's just not the boil by buddies reach with their propane rigs. I can crank mine up and get as good a boil as they do I just don't because it costs more.

 

[augiedoggy]

I have also read in books and interviews from brewmasters that a vigorous boil is required for the resons Kal stated. I feel I saw a big change going from my stove top top my electric setup because of its ability to create a better boil... many also state a 90 minute boil is better for utilization of the hops but I havent noticed a difference there..

 

[kal]

Maybe not, how vigorous?

I good violent churning/rolling, boil. Like this:

See the video at the bottom of this page (see around the 2:20 mark)

I get a good rolling boil off my element it's just not the boil by buddies reach with their propane rigs. I can crank mine up and get as good a boil as they do I just don't because it costs more.

I run my 5500W element set to 85% to get that nice rolling boil you see in the picture and video above. This is with ~13-14 gallons of wort.

At $0.12/kWh (the average US national rate) it costs 56 cents to boil for one hour at 85% duty cycle.

If I raise this to 100%, it costs me 66 cents.

If I lower it to 50%, it costs me 33 cents.

You may be compromising the quality of your beer to save what amounts to probably 10-30 cents.

Kal

 

[kenh]

I good violent churning/rolling, boil. Like this:

See the video at the bottom of this page (see around the 2:20 mark)



I run my 5500W element set to 85% to get that nice rolling boil you see in the picture and video above. This is with ~13-14 gallons of wort.

At $0.12/kWh (the average US national rate) it costs 56 cents to boil for one hour at 85% duty cycle.

If I raise this to 100%, it costs me 66 cents.

If I lower it to 50%, it costs me 33 cents.

You may be compromising the quality of your beer to save what amounts to probably 10-30 cents.

Kal

OK, so I'm getting the same boil you are, we are just calling it something different. The boil my propane brewer friends try to maintain is huge. They will juggle their propane heat so that their boil stays just under boil-over.

 

[nab911]

For the question of whether 2 x 2000W elements can boil 7 gallons, I did it yesterday. Took about 45 for the pair to get from 60 to 160 and from 150 to boiling was right at 30 minutes so something is definitely wrong.

BTW: Same setup, 2 120v - 2000W elements on seperate 20A gfi breakers.