New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Dgallo]

It may be less that they can only be used once, and more that more will make it to the finished product if you aren’t losing it to the walls of the FV and BK.

Gotcha. I’ll see what I can find today. What I remember reading about LTP1 is that they are smaller branch chain proteins that help in foam formation and the proteinase produced by the yeast during fermentation will degrade. Once it’s degraded it forms positive attractions to larger protein chains and as the molecular weight increases, they will be pulled out of suspension. Because of this phenomenon, it’s very important to leave the most trub out of the fermenter as possible. Also, would suggest the importance of using whirlfloc (or similar).

 

[marc1]

Do you have literature to support this? I’ve done quite a bit of research on head retention over the years and cant say I’ve ever heard that.

I remember Bamforth talking about it on the Brewing Network a couple few years ago. Don't remember what show, probably the Session or Brew Strong. Or both.

 

[Dgallo]

I remember Bamforth talking about it on the Brewing Network a couple few years ago. Don't remember what show, probably the Session or Brew Strong. Or both.

Thank you. I’ll do some searching. If anyone is going to know the specific reaction with malt compounds it will certainly be Bamforth

 

[aaronm13]

The Malt Miller in the UK (no affiliation other than as customer) seem to lead the way on retail versions of these kinds of thing - they had Incognito at the last in-person Brewcon nearly 2 years ago. And eg they have stuff like Brewtan, and Nectaron (except currently out of stock, presumably will have some once the new harvest arrives). They are typically a bit more expensive than GEB but eg have HBC472 in Incognito which GEB don't, and their pack sizes on Spectrum are a more wallet-friendly 15ml not 50ml.

GEB charging €32 for a 50ml vial is nuts. Any idea how many grams in T90 pellets is to 50ml of Spectrum?

 

[Dgallo]

GEB charging €32 for a 50ml vial is nuts. Any idea how many grams in T90 pellets is to 50ml of Spectrum?

IIRC, it is roughly 8-10 oz of t90 per 1 oz of spectrum. So if you use 9 as an average, 50 ml would be about 15 oz of hops.

**edit**
it’s actual 5-8 oz of t90 to 1 oz of spectrum so it’s roughly 10.5oz of t90 to 50 ml of spectrum.

here’s a spec sheet

 

[aaronm13]

IIRC, it is roughly 8-10 oz of t90 per 1 oz of spectrum. So if you use 9 as an average, 50 ml would be about 15 oz of hops.

**edit**
it’s actual 5-8 oz of t90 to 1 oz of spectrum so it’s roughly 10.5oz of t90 to 50 ml of spectrum.

here’s a spec sheet View attachment 740318

Thanks for that data sheet. So from the same supplier GEB in Ireland 10.5oz of citra is €25 and the 50ml of Citra Spectrum is €32 so not as bad as I first thought considering you'll get more beer at the end. Might have to try it sometime.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

From memory when Malt Miller first started doing Incognito they were pricing it as a 20-25% premium to the equivalent hops, I worked it out on this thread back when it came out, presumably a bit before Brewcon 2019 which ISTR was their "official" launch of it although it had been on the website for a few weeks before then.

 

[Fergal]

Do you reckon spectrum & incognito would make any difference at the home brew level? Most of these things seem to be designed just for yield or do you think there would be an improvement over pellets?

 

[nick sekerak]

I have a new CF5 and am trying to dial in my process using a conical. Especially how the best way to handle soft crashing post ferment then DH. I am struggling with dumping all the yeast out, concerned about the hops sinking and how much rousting with co2 I need to do.

Would anyone be willing to PM me that is a spike conical user that is using these same neipa methods we all use in the thread. I would just like to here about how your process goes using these conicals to make NEIPA’s.

 

[skleice]

My 2020 CTZ is just awful. Any reports of this being due to smoke?

 

[R.A.I.D]

I have a new CF5 and am trying to dial in my process using a conical. Especially how the best way to handle soft crashing post ferment then DH. I am struggling with dumping all the yeast out, concerned about the hops sinking and how much rousting with co2 I need to do.

Would anyone be willing to PM me that is a spike conical user that is using these same neipa methods we all use in the thread. I would just like to here about how your process goes using these conicals to make NEIPA’s.

I used to transfer to a dry hop keg but I am going to try DH in my conical fermenter this time. My plan is to chill the fermented beer to 12C/54F. 36 hours after hitting this temperature I will add 125g/4oc DH through a counter flow of co2. No agitation. Then after 24 h I will add another 125g/4oc DH. Again 48 h later I will start cold crash. And then transferring to fermentation purged serving keg with the last 50g/2oc DH.

 

[nick sekerak]

I used to transfer to a dry hop keg but I am going to try DH in my conical fermenter this time. My plan is to chill the fermented beer to 12C/54F. 36 hours after hitting this temperature I will add 125g/4oc DH through a counter flow of co2. No agitation. Then after 24 h I will add another 125g/4oc DH. Again 48 h later I will start cold crash. And then transferring to fermentation purged serving keg with the last 50g/2oc DH.

That’s pretty close to what I am trying. I soft crash to 50F for 3days dump yeast twice during the soft crash. I feel there is still some in there but two dumps is one gallon so I cannot afford to lose any more.Then I use a hop doser to purge and drop the pellets into the brew for DH #1 still holding temp at 50F. I will let that sit 48hrs. Then dump and add the DH#2 for another 48hrs. I have a sight glass below the cone and it fills up with the hops/yeast completely after about 24hrs.

Question should I try rousing the hops to try any get them back in suspension? I am worried because that will also shoot the yeast back up in suspension too. Wouldn’t that be bad, what’s the best thing to do?

 

[couchsending]

It depends on what yeast you’re using when it comes to soft crashing. Some will take their time, other’s won’t. It’s something you just need to pay attention to and maybe try different times and temperatures.

I’m sure just about everyone is using some sort of 1318 variant. It floccs pretty well. After ferment is done you can just set your temp to 55. Depending on how you’re cooling 24 hours is really all you need. Harvest yeast (reuse it, don’t dump it) and add hops. There’s plenty of info now that says 24 hours is all you need. Extraction happens really fast. Pretty sure the brewery that won alpha king and GABF for hazy double ipa last year removes hops after 24 hours. (Burke Gilman). You can leave for longer if you want or add another dose of hops. Now start crashing and wait maybe 48 and slowly dump again... then leave at 35-38 for a bit to condition then transfer.

The 2” dump valves on the spike fermenters are dumb. 400bbl fermenters only have 1.5” valves. If you can add pressure, there’s zero reason for 2”. I remove everything below the cone and just put a butterfly valve right at the bottom. No elbow, so sight glass, nothing. The whole surface to volume ratio made zero sense to be when there’s a 2” port on a 7g fermenter. Started when I was making lagers in them then just kept doing it for hoppy beers. In both cases you’ll want what’s siting in those 2” valves in contact with your beer.

Anyways there’s no reason to resuspend in my opinion but you want want to try ditching everything below the cone, especially if you’re going sightglass then elbow.

 

[TheMadKing]

It depends on what yeast you’re using when it comes to soft crashing. Some will take their time, other’s won’t. It’s something you just need to pay attention to and maybe try different times and temperatures.

I’m sure just about everyone is using some sort of 1318 variant. It floccs pretty well. After ferment is done you can just set your temp to 55. Depending on how you’re cooling 24 hours is really all you need. Harvest yeast (reuse it, don’t dump it) and add hops. There’s plenty of info now that says 24 hours is all you need. Extraction happens really fast. Pretty sure the brewery that won alpha king and GABF for hazy double ipa last year removes hops after 24 hours. (Burke Gilman). You can leave for longer if you want or add another dose of hops. Now start crashing and wait maybe 48 and slowly dump again... then leave at 35-38 for a bit to condition then transfer.

The 2” dump valves on the spike fermenters are dumb. 400bbl fermenters only have 1.5” valves. If you can add pressure, there’s zero reason for 2”. I remove everything below the cone and just put a butterfly valve right at the bottom. No elbow, so sight glass, nothing. The whole surface to volume ratio made zero sense to be when there’s a 2” port on a 7g fermenter. Started when I was making lagers in them then just kept doing it for hoppy beers. In both cases you’ll want what’s siting in those 2” valves in contact with your beer.

Anyways there’s no reason to resuspend in my opinion but you want want to try ditching everything below the cone, especially if you’re going sightglass then elbow.

Thanks this is good advice. I just tried to rouse the dry hops with a sight glass and elbow this morning and it felt fairly pointless because it all just settled right back down.

It's just a pretty emotional thing to remove the sight glass though I love being able to see fermentation in action. I see the benefit of it though.

Edit: another question, maybe I'm being dense, but what's the problem with resuspending a little yeast after harvesting? If it's done fermenting it will just floc right back out and I don't know of any off flavors caused by that unless there's autolyzed yeast in there

 

[ihavenonickname]

Do you think it’s pretty much necessary to have pressure capabilities for this style?

 

[R.A.I.D]

Do you think it’s pretty much necessary to have pressure capabilities for this style?

With pressure capabilities comes closed transfer capabilities.

 

[aaronm13]

Do you think it’s pretty much necessary to have pressure capabilities for this style?

For fermentation, no but for closed transfer you really do need to be able to push about 2psi of pressure into your fermenter.

 

[ihavenonickname]

Yea that’s been my experience too, I was never happy with the seal I could get with my ss brew bucket - cold crash or transfer always seemed to leak. all my o2 problems went away with keg fermenters.

so I guess I don’t understand why anyone would want a conical without pressure capabilities?

 

[aaronm13]

Is it the 7G Ss Brew bucket you use? This is my fermenter but never had o2 issues with it. Have the domed lid for it with tri clamp so can push a few psi of CO2 into it for closed transfer. I use a mylar balloon filled with co2 for cold crash with no issues either.

 

[secretlevel]

I've been getting away with using gravity for transfers since I don't have a pressure-rated fermenter quite yet. Keg posts always end up getting clogged if I ferment in those, even with a filter over my dip tube. Thing is, most pressure-rated fermenters are absolutely gigantic and won't fit into my fermentation fridge (kegerator). Well, except for Dgallo's fermonster setup. Maybe it's time …

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I have a new CF5 and am trying to dial in my process using a conical. Especially how the best way to handle soft crashing post ferment then DH. I am struggling with dumping all the yeast out, concerned about the hops sinking and how much rousting with co2 I need to do.

Would anyone be willing to PM me that is a spike conical user that is using these same neipa methods we all use in the thread. I would just like to here about how your process goes using these conicals to make NEIPA’s.

After fermentation I crash down into the 40s *f for atleast 36 hours. When dumping yeast you will have 2psi co2 running to keep pressure in there for the crash. The most important thing is to go as slow as possible. I do it in a few steps, it helps to have a sight glass, I open my valve one notch at a time and wait several seconds in between each notch until the I see movement in the sight glass. Once it starts to move I leave it at that spot for a while and let it drop out slowly, this avoids having the liquid "punch" through the trub/yeast. It took me numerous times to do a good job of this but as with most brewing processes patience is important. Once the liquid starts coming out to fast I shut the valve, go do something else for 20min to a half hour or longer and dump again with the same process. I dry hop all at one time but may split it into 2, and I dry hop at 50f for 2 days then crash down to 38f for a day or 2 depending on my schedule. Do a quick dump of the dry hops then keg. I also max out my fermenter for this style because I know I am going to take a lot of losses with dumps and whatnot. The spike diptube is a must as well.

 

[nick sekerak]

It depends on what yeast you’re using when it comes to soft crashing. Some will take their time, other’s won’t. It’s something you just need to pay attention to and maybe try different times and temperatures.

I’m sure just about everyone is using some sort of 1318 variant. It floccs pretty well. After ferment is done you can just set your temp to 55. Depending on how you’re cooling 24 hours is really all you need. Harvest yeast (reuse it, don’t dump it) and add hops. There’s plenty of info now that says 24 hours is all you need. Extraction happens really fast. Pretty sure the brewery that won alpha king and GABF for hazy double ipa last year removes hops after 24 hours. (Burke Gilman). You can leave for longer if you want or add another dose of hops. Now start crashing and wait maybe 48 and slowly dump again... then leave at 35-38 for a bit to condition then transfer.

The 2” dump valves on the spike fermenters are dumb. 400bbl fermenters only have 1.5” valves. If you can add pressure, there’s zero reason for 2”. I remove everything below the cone and just put a butterfly valve right at the bottom. No elbow, so sight glass, nothing. The whole surface to volume ratio made zero sense to be when there’s a 2” port on a 7g fermenter. Started when I was making lagers in them then just kept doing it for hoppy beers. In both cases you’ll want what’s siting in those 2” valves in contact with your beer.

Anyways there’s no reason to resuspend in my opinion but you want want to try ditching everything below the cone, especially if you’re going sightglass then elbow.

i have glycol so chilling from ferment temps to the 50’s is like 10 min. The batch I am doing now I held at 50F for 3 days. Sounds like that was not needed. I’ll try 24hrs next batch. I did harvest the yeast thought.

you have a good point on the 2”. I may have to switch. Right now my setup is cone-butterfly-sight glass-elbow-butterfly.

the main reason for this is to keep your hops above your cone, right?

 

[nick sekerak]

After fermentation I crash down into the 40s *f for atleast 36 hours. When dumping yeast you will have 2psi co2 running to keep pressure in there for the crash. The most important thing is to go as slow as possible. I do it in a few steps, it helps to have a sight glass, I open my valve one notch at a time and wait several seconds in between each notch until the I see movement in the sight glass. Once it starts to move I leave it at that spot for a while and let it drop out slowly, this avoids having the liquid "punch" through the trub/yeast. It took me numerous times to do a good job of this but as with most brewing processes patience is important. Once the liquid starts coming out to fast I shut the valve, go do something else for 20min to a half hour or longer and dump again with the same process. I dry hop all at one time but may split it into 2, and I dry hop at 50f for 2 days then crash down to 38f for a day or 2 depending on my schedule. Do a quick dump of the dry hops then keg. I also max out my fermenter for this style because I know I am going to take a lot of losses with dumps and whatnot. The spike diptube is a must as well.

I am doing the same exact thing you are doing. My yeast dumps start off very thick like paste then get to thin slurry but not clear. They turn to cloudy yeasty more beerish semi clear at the end. Just dumped yeast last night from my CF5 and it was 1/2 gallon. Mostly of the slurry mix. I did not do the 20 min break but that is a good idea. That probably would have helped. I feel like the first notch on my butterfly valve doesn’t do much, it gets it moving a bit. The second notch is where is see it start draining but it’s very very sensitive. From the middle to the end of the groove is like night and day. You move it a tad bit too far and it blows out. Is 1/2 gallon loss on a yeast dump normal or is that way too much?

also I am using a 2” TC with 1/2” barb fitting I attach a hose to.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Well I do 15 gallon batches so my volumes are going to be different then yours, I typically do a gallon before dry hop and another half gallon before kegging. I start with 17.5 gallon to get 15 total in the end. That leaves a gallon of trub in the fermenter and I use the diptube to then get what I can. I fill my kegs by weight and last time I think I got 2 full kegs (42lbs) and the third came right up to 41lbs. In my opinion that's good for this style as it is very hard to get good transfers.

 

[eugles]

Going to jump on the cosmic punch train here...received order a day late as fedex goofed up to find the pouch fully inflated. I immediately threw it in the fridge, which stopped it from inflating more or popping, but I'm wondering if it is okie to use in an upcoming brew?

 

[ThatVideoKid]

Going to jump on the cosmic punch train here...received order a day late as fedex goofed up to find the pouch fully inflated. I immediately threw it in the fridge, which stopped it from inflating more or popping, but I'm wondering if it is okie to use in an upcoming brew?

Probably fine, just make a starter.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Going to jump on the cosmic punch train here...received order a day late as fedex goofed up to find the pouch fully inflated. I immediately threw it in the fridge, which stopped it from inflating more or popping, but I'm wondering if it is okie to use in an upcoming brew?

I have seen this before as well. About 2 months or so ago, I ordered two different liquid yeast packets from morebeer.com: Imperial Dry Hop and Imperial Juice. Both had their own separate chill packs in separate envelopes but both were packed in the same box with other things. When opening the box, one envelope was "fat" and the other not. After opening envelopes, the Juice was inflated big time but A24 wasn't. Both envelopes had cold packs that were barely cool, but not even room temp. So they traveled in the same environment yet this happened to one pack. So assuming they didn't pack and send me one that was already inflated (quite the possibility), not sure what causes this. Nevertheless, made a starter pretty quick and it worked out great with no issues. Had the same thing happen with my cosmic punch yeast and the starter looked great and fermented the beer with no issues as well.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

So today was keg day for my first NEIPA using cosmic punch. Columbus and cascade only on hot side (3oz cascade also used in the mash hops) and DH with the following schedule:

DH1: 1oz Citra LUPOMAX, 1oz Galaxy, 2oz moutere
DH2: 1oz Citra LUPOMAX, 3oz Nectaron

The hydro sample (tasting just the effect of hot side hops and cosmic punch) was very citrus and tropical. The citrus was more or less grapefruitiness. It also had some nice earthiness but was more complimentary after the citrus/tropical vibe. Assuming that was the Columbus which I love. Pitched at 68 and after 24hrs let it rise to ~71, then after about 3.5 days as it was slowing down I pushed it to 73. Finished by day 5 but let it sit at that temp till the hydro sample at day 7. FG was 1.015 (one of the few times my TILT was deadly accurate compared to hydrometer lol). Started soft crash day 8 to 50 and held for 36 hrs@50 degrees before letting it rise to ~53-54 for dry hopping. This was intended on just being citra, galaxy, moutere and the first DH was planned. All DH1 hops smelled fantastic, especially moutere. 24hrs later for the second dry hop, and the new pack of galaxy just smelled "OK" at best, so I decided to switch course given one of my fav combos thus far was exclusively Moutere and Nectaron. I ONLY had 13oz nectaron left and its out of stock but decided to use some anyways lol. Glad I did!

The pics are the force carbed sample from leftovers after kegging (need better lighting I know), but in general - I am stunned how fruity this is and aroma of force carbed sample is fantastic. Was wanting to make sure I get the passionfruit/tropical vibe for this and this nailed it. Some background earth, but honestly almost thinking need more earthiness to keep the depth of this beer because the passionfruit/tropical vibe is HUGE. For those who haven't used nectaron, its prob my fav hop these days and has awesome peach and tropical vibes with a lower NZ diesel character compared to Nelson or other "edgy" NZ hops. But it still has the NZ character. Its really a refined hop IMO. This beer is ready to drink NOW with zero conditioning needed to enjoy it, although I will take the week to carb it up and allow for some conditioning/aromas to work its magic anyways lol.

I do agree with @secretlevel in that I don't think that cosmic punch changes or gets in the way of the hop profile/flavor but it really seems to amplify the profile in general. In my case - its the passionfruit/tropical vibe. Definitely going to keep experimenting with the cosmic punch. I am a fan.

Poor indoor lighting, but will try to get a proper beer porn pic uploaded in about 7-10days when the keg is tapped.

 

[R.A.I.D]

They break up at the bottom of your fermenter, just as they would on top. For those who have the ability to removed the trub and yeast prior, you can rouse them with co2 or a gentle rocking. The problem is most homebrewers can’t dump their trub(myself included) so you really need to find the coldest temperature that will keep them in suspension for you. For me it’s about 57/58.

Last brew I went a little colder and ran 4 oz of the dryhop through a coffee gribder, very quick/roughly to see if it would help def seemed to help a little. I was worried it might add to cause some oxidation but I haven’t detected any. Next dryhop I’m going to try to do that to about 60% of the dryhop

I am going to try DH on top of the yeast cake this time. Like you used to do, @Dgallo. You have earlier considered coffie grinding a large part of the DH. Can you recommend this practice?
Also do you think the hop flavor is more intense after you switched to racking to a separate dry hop fermenter?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Might be of interest to those with ASBC access, the effect of hop creep on beer flavour (or hop α/β-amylases on esters, higher alcohols, and aldehydes to be more precise)

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/03610470.2021.1937453