New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Clyde McCoy]

just racked an ipa using Riwaka. wow, very pungent hop. i dry hopped 4 oz for 3 days and 4 oz for 2 days, all at 50F. It is a very fruity green pepper character. similar to ekuanot with more fruit. i like it. seems like a hop some people would like a lot and some not so much, ha ha.

next batch I have coming is Columbus/Riwaka

 

[couchsending]

Riwaka is interesting for sure. It has tons of depth to it. To me the NZ “machine oil, diesel fuel” notes are stronger in Riwaka than any of the other NZ hops. For such a low alpha it packs an incredible punch.

I’ve had quite a few HF beers that feature Riwaka (got some Susan in the fridge now) as well as Cellarmaker’s beers that highlight it and a few Monkish. That machine oil/diesel note is easy to identify in all those beers. I feel like With Nelson the best lots of Nelson don’t have it but Shaun Hill probably gets the best Riwaka in the US since he’s part owner in Freestyle and his Riwaka beers all have it. Been fortunate to score some Freestyle Riwaka and have used it a bunch over the last 3-4 years. It’s really cool and really polarizing. Maybe the easiest hop to pick out.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

next batch I have coming is Columbus/Riwaka

Love dual hop combos with columbus! Ive done columbus/galaxy. Mostly columbus on hot side and a dash of galaxy in the whirlpool and flip-flop them on dry hop favoring galaxy. Turned out great. How'd you run the columbus / riwaka combo?

 

[Clyde McCoy]

Love dual hop combos with columbus! Ive done columbus/galaxy. Mostly columbus on hot side and a dash of galaxy in the whirlpool and flip-flop them on dry hop favoring galaxy. Turned out great. How'd you run the columbus / riwaka combo?

kettle - co2 extract
flameout - columbus
dry hop - riwaka (possibly w/ columbus)

leaning towards only riwaka in dry hop to get a clear sense of its profile

 

[beervoid]

not to be a downer but that yeast has a really really bad reputation. Maybe they’ve improved it but Imperial, The Yeast Bay, Omega, Gigayeast are all much better sources for that strain.. or were (might be better now??)

What bad rep has it got according to you?
I brewed with it a couple of times, the only downside I experienced is that it tends to end up clearer then 1318, but that seems universal with all conan related strains.
I really like the distinct stonefruit esters it throws.

 

[nebulabrewing]

What bad rep has it got according to you?
I brewed with it a couple of times, the only downside I experienced is that it tends to end up clearer then 1318, but that seems universal with all conan related strains.
I really like the distinct stonefruit esters it throws.

Interesting. The clearing up was not my experience. This was five weeks in the keg for me. Makes sense tho consideringso many variablescan influence it.

 

[beervoid]

Interesting. The clearing up was not my experience. This was five weeks in the keg for me. Makes sense tho consideringso many variablescan influence it.View attachment 709501

Yes I believe its mostly in later generations when it also becomes more attenuative. My theory is that it munches up the desirables that contribute to haze. Lots of factors at play.

 

[cheesebach]

What bad rep has it got according to you?
I brewed with it a couple of times, the only downside I experienced is that it tends to end up clearer then 1318, but that seems universal with all conan related strains.
I really like the distinct stonefruit esters it throws.

This is my experience with this yeast as well. The 3 NEIPAs I've made with WLP095 have all turned out great, but they do have a tendency to clear after 1-2 months in the keg, whereas LA3 won't ever clear (at least as far as I can tell).

 

[Northern_Brewer]

good to know... heard nothing but terrible things about the WL version. Never used it myself.

I wouldn't have said I've heard terrible things about it, it's just a bit bland compared to more recent selections of Conan - and since that character is what you're buying it for, it makes sense to get one of the more interesting versions.

 

[hopfenstopfen]

I wouldn't have said I've heard terrible things about it, it's just a bit bland compared to more recent selections of Conan - and since that character is what you're buying it for, it makes sense to get one of the more interesting versions.

I would like to read opinions on the widely available Conan strains from those on this thread with lots of experience.

 

[couchsending]

I would like to read opinions on the widely available Conan strains from those on this thread with lots of experience.

Big fan of the Yeast Bay strain. Seems to be more reliable and flocc better.

Imperial or Omega are also good options.

I’ve heard of some professionals doing a 70/30 blend of Conan and LA3.

 

[stickyfinger]

My wife says the Riwaka IPA smells like fresh curry leaves. I haven't smelled them in a while, but i could see that.

Riwaka is interesting for sure. It has tons of depth to it. To me the NZ “machine oil, diesel fuel” notes are stronger in Riwaka than any of the other NZ hops. For such a low alpha it packs an incredible punch.

I’ve had quite a few HF beers that feature Riwaka (got some Susan in the fridge now) as well as Cellarmaker’s beers that highlight it and a few Monkish. That machine oil/diesel note is easy to identify in all those beers. I feel like With Nelson the best lots of Nelson don’t have it but Shaun Hill probably gets the best Riwaka in the US since he’s part owner in Freestyle and his Riwaka beers all have it. Been fortunate to score some Freestyle Riwaka and have used it a bunch over the last 3-4 years. It’s really cool and really polarizing. Maybe the easiest hop to pick out.

 

[drewmuni8]

We just got a shipment of EQ in CA, and i tried a 6.8% Citra/Mosaic IPA (forgot the name). I don't typically buy things with the "generic" Citra, Mosaic, Galaxy combos unless its special but I'm really glad I did, it was very, very good.

 

[JoeMamasIPA]

Someone asked me the other day why do a soft crash before DH vs. doing a full cold crash before DH and I didn't have a good answer. So why is the soft crash better? Given the ability to maintain positive CO2 pressure wouldn't it be more effective in dropping out yeast to go down to temps in the 30's for a couple days and then DH? It seems like the soft crash might just be for convenience sake of avoiding cooling and warming the liquid as much. Perhaps there is something inherently bad about large temp swings but I might give a full cold crash a try on my next beer.

 

[HopsAreGood]

Someone asked me the other day why do a soft crash before DH vs. doing a full cold crash before DH and I didn't have a good answer. So why is the soft crash better? Given the ability to maintain positive CO2 pressure wouldn't it be more effective in dropping out yeast to go down to temps in the 30's for a couple days and then DH? It seems like the soft crash might just be for convenience sake of avoiding cooling and warming the liquid as much. Perhaps there is something inherently bad about large temp swings but I might give a full cold crash a try on my next beer.

It’s a good question and I think you hit on the main concerns of oxygen ingress and large temp swings. For whatever it’s worth there is a pretty well respected local brewery that provides cards for each table at the brewery, that basically describes the brewing process. For the most part it’s pretty generic but they do say that they crash their beer down to 33 degrees Fahrenheit prior to dry hopping, in order to drop out the yeast.

 

[JoeMamasIPA]

It’s a good question and I think you hit on the main concerns of oxygen ingress and large temp swings. For whatever it’s worth there is a pretty well respected local brewery that provides cards for each table at the brewery, that basically describes the brewing process. For the most part it’s pretty generic but they do say that they crash their beer down to 33 degrees Fahrenheit prior to dry hopping, in order to drop out the yeast.

Thanks. I just wasn't sure if there was some voodoo with proteins/VDK/yeast or some other organic chemistry nightmare I would walk into. Those cards sound like fun and probably prevent the staff from being asked a million questions.

 

[Adam Zerwick]

Thanks. I just wasn't sure if there was some voodoo with proteins/VDK/yeast or some other organic chemistry nightmare I would walk into. Those cards sound like fun and probably prevent the staff from being asked a million questions.

For my next batch I'm gonna try a variation of this... Unfortunately with the Flex+ I don't have the ability to dump trub/yeast. Anyways here's my plan:
- At terminal and VDK passing cold crash to 38F for a couple days
- Dry hop for 2 days at 38F
- Rack into serving keg

My only concern is the hops dropping straight to the bottom of the fermenter. Gonna test this out with a clear bowl and beer from a can (degassed and not) to see for my own eyes.

 

[JoeMamasIPA]

I

For my next batch I'm gonna try a variation of this... Unfortunately with the Flex+ I don't have the ability to dump trub/yeast. Anyways here's my plan:
- At terminal and VDK passing cold crash to 38F for a couple days
- Dry hop for 2 days at 38F
- Rack into serving keg

My only concern is the hops dropping straight to the bottom of the fermenter. Gonna test this out with a clear bowl and beer from a can (degassed and not) to see for my own eyes.

I have had mixed results with cold dry hopping. Sometimes the flavor seems way off; I don't like vegetal as a descriptor but I would have to use it here. I soft crash around 50 and then rack from a fermenting keg into a keg (loaded with DH) that was purged using fermentation gases. Then I DH for 2-4 days in the low 60's, crash to serving temps, and serve from the DH keg until tapped. The soft crash gets the yeast cell count low to both avoid hop creep and stripping of hop oils. Your method seems sound except for the cold DH part where you might consider warming it back up, preferably without having to move the fermenter which could rouse the crashed bits. The only part I don't like about my method is exposing the DH hops to fermentation gases/temperature for 3 days. Having said that, when I have opened the DH keg following fermentation purge it typically smells pretty potent like not much was lost.

 

[Adam Zerwick]

I


I have had mixed results with cold dry hopping. Sometimes the flavor seems way off; I don't like vegetal as a descriptor but I would have to use it here. I soft crash around 50 and then rack from a fermenting keg into a keg (loaded with DH) that was purged using fermentation gases. Then I DH for 2-4 days in the low 60's, crash to serving temps, and serve from the DH keg until tapped. The soft crash gets the yeast cell count low to both avoid hop creep and stripping of hop oils. Your method seems sound except for the cold DH part where you might consider warming it back up, preferably without having to move the fermenter which could rouse the crashed bits. The only part I don't like about my method is exposing the DH hops to fermentation gases/temperature for 3 days. Having said that, when I have opened the DH keg following fermentation purge it typically smells pretty potent like not much was lost.

My usual process is to soft crash to 50F then warm back up to about 60-64F and dry hop without agitating the fermenter too much. The goal, like you said, is to not rouse all the stuff you worked on dropping out. This has been working well for me!! I used to ferment in kegs and did exactly what you do with your dry hop keg. It always bothered me having dry hops sitting in a moist environment (starsan solution remnants) while being exposed to the ferm gas and ambient temps. I feel like my beers are better with how I dry hop now but I'm always down to revisit

The primary reason I wanted to try this is 1) I've never tried it, 2) Janish mentioned some research on cold and short dry hopping, and 3) I've heard Denny Conn raving about this method. I appreciate your feedback and experience!!

 

[stickyfinger]

I just tried a soft crash to 50F and dry hop at 50F for the first time. I usually soft/cold crash and then warm up to 65F or so for dry hop. I love the beer, but I have heard people have mixed results with dry hopping below fermentation temps. As was stated a few posts back, some surmise that cold dry hopping can lead to unpleasant flavors if subpar hops are used for the colder dry hopping. I plan to keep doing the 50F crash and dry hop and see how it goes. The hops do largely sink to the bottom but they fluff up and absorb beer and the entire volume of beer after 2-3 days is very hazy. At warmer temps the hops always seem to kind of float in a big pillow on top of the beer (and in it to some extent of course.) Seems like the sinking is somewhat preferable as there is more contact area with the beer! This of course assumes you give the beer a few days at 50F to drop as much yeast as possible before dry hopping.

I think I will prefer the 50F crash and dry hop to raising it back up in temp if the flavor keeps pleasing me in the future. I have had hop creep after raising back up to fermentation temps and dry hopping even after a cold crash.

My usual process is to soft crash to 50F then warm back up to about 60-64F and dry hop without agitating the fermenter too much. The goal, like you said, is to not rouse all the stuff you worked on dropping out. This has been working well for me!! I used to ferment in kegs and did exactly what you do with your dry hop keg. It always bothered me having dry hops sitting in a moist environment (starsan solution remnants) while being exposed to the ferm gas and ambient temps. I feel like my beers are better with how I dry hop now but I'm always down to revisit

The primary reason I wanted to try this is 1) I've never tried it, 2) Janish mentioned some research on cold and short dry hopping, and 3) I've heard Denny Conn raving about this method. I appreciate your feedback and experience!!

 

[Dgallo]

So for those who saw my post a month or so ago about my local brewery Fidens doing a collab with EQ. WELL, both breweries released it today! I picked up from Fidens today and I just ordered the eq release today. Very excited to try it.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I would like to read opinions on the widely available Conan strains from those on this thread with lots of experience.

Not much to add to the above - the White Labs one seems to have less character and floccs pretty badly, Yeast Bay is better, what little I've heard about the others seems to be in the "better" category. Homebrew versions of Conan do seem to vary quite a bit, presumably because each strain has come from a single colony isolated independently from a can, which is a pretty good environment for selecting cruddy yeast, particularly if it's a can of Heady Topper at 8% - in particular it's no surprise that they don't flocculate very well, as the good floccers don't make it into the can. It's not like some other strains which have come from a single colony in a lab (like 34/70).

As an aside, here's a good overview of how flocculation works by Graham Stewart, who used to be head of brewing at Heriot-Watt and so the de facto leader of British brewing academia.

 

[Willum]

I just tried a soft crash to 50F and dry hop at 50F for the first time. I usually soft/cold crash and then warm up to 65F or so for dry hop. I love the beer, but I have heard people have mixed results with dry hopping below fermentation temps. As was stated a few posts back, some surmise that cold dry hopping can lead to unpleasant flavors if subpar hops are used for the colder dry hopping. I plan to keep doing the 50F crash and dry hop and see how it goes. The hops do largely sink to the bottom but they fluff up and absorb beer and the entire volume of beer after 2-3 days is very hazy. At warmer temps the hops always seem to kind of float in a big pillow on top of the beer (and in it to some extent of course.) Seems like the sinking is somewhat preferable as there is more contact area with the beer! This of course assumes you give the beer a few days at 50F to drop as much yeast as possible before dry hopping.

I think I will prefer the 50F crash and dry hop to raising it back up in temp if the flavor keeps pleasing me in the future. I have had hop creep after raising back up to fermentation temps and dry hopping even after a cold crash.

I have been doing the same thing lately. I crash to 50, dry hop for 2 days, cold crash to 33, then keg.

My most recent NEIPA is the best one yet (Citra/Sabro/Galaxy) and I have probably made 50 NEIPAs at this point.

Since I started hopping at 50, I no longer run into hop burn. Also my beers have more hop aroma.

 

[HopsAreGood]

I’ve dry hopped at 50 a few times and really like the results as well. I tend to like my chest freezer a little bit warmer than some others, and keep it at 50. So it’s pretty easy for me to let fermentation complete and then just stick it right into the chest freezer to crash it down to 50. I can then transfer it into the dry hop keg and leave that in the chest freezer also at 50, and then transfer into the serving keg which goes into the chest freezer at 50 as well. It’s pretty convenient since I don’t have to worry too much about dropping and raising temps.

The owner of New Anthem, who puts out some incredible hazy IPAs, has stated that they dry hop at 50 and feels that it results in their beers being ready for consumption faster, and that they just seem to finish a little bit softer without some of the undesirable characteristics you may get at higher temperatures. He did an interview on a podcast and was asked if they needed to increase the hop load to make up for the lower temperature, and he said not at all. They haven’t noticed any difference in terms of needing to use more to get the same type of punch. The whole interview is a really good listen, but if you go to 48 minutes in you can hear him talk about dry hopping at 50. You’ll hear the interviewer ask him about dry hopping in the “50s” but a few minutes before he stated that they dry hop at specifically 50...not “in the 50s.”

https://open.spotify.com/episode/5GZtk0mfY56sNIqnomYlhm?si=xwoCdEfDTYifydXyUMAV6w

 

[aaronm13]

That's very interesting about dry hopping at 50. I've been doing the soft crash to around 50 for a few months now then warming back up to around 60-62 for dry hopping. Seems a lot of temperature fluctuations to me so this is definitely worth a shot. Does the people who dry hop at this temperature find the hops just drop to the bottom? I usually double dry hop, first in the fermenter then second in a dry hopping keg. The keg can easily rouse the hops but don't want to be shaking the fermenter and raising up all the yeast again.

Slightly off topic as I've a Pliny clone just about finished and ready to start dry hopping but would dry hopping at 50 work for this style too or more appropriate to Neipas?

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I have been doing the same thing lately. I crash to 50, dry hop for 2 days, cold crash to 33, then keg.

My most recent NEIPA is the best one yet (Citra/Sabro/Galaxy) and I have probably made 50 NEIPAs at this point.

Since I started hopping at 50, I no longer run into hop burn. Also my beers have more hop aroma.

on my last neipa which i just kegged this past sunday i did almost the exact same thing and same hop combo, it is also my best one to date, thanks mainly to this thread! i have probably 30-40 neipas under my belt and feel like im getting real close to exactly what im looking for. with this dry hopping temp i had no hop burn even when i tasted it after only 36 hours in serving keg.

 

[Willum]

on my last neipa which i just kegged this past sunday i did almost the exact same thing and same hop combo, it is also my best one to date, thanks mainly to this thread! i have probably 30-40 neipas under my belt and feel like im getting real close to exactly what im looking for. with this dry hopping temp i had no hop burn even when i tasted it after only 36 hours in serving keg.

I have been really enjoying Sabro, I have never used it until recently. I would get hop burn when I cold crashed to 50 then let it rise back up to 60+. I am going to stay with this method for all of my NEIPAs. It is great to keg an NEIPA, then be able to drink it as soon as it is force carbed.

 

[Willum]

That's very interesting about dry hopping at 50. I've been doing the soft crash to around 50 for a few months now then warming back up to around 60-62 for dry hopping. Seems a lot of temperature fluctuations to me so this is definitely worth a shot. Does the people who dry hop at this temperature find the hops just drop to the bottom? I usually double dry hop, first in the fermenter then second in a dry hopping keg. The keg can easily rouse the hops but don't want to be shaking the fermenter and raising up all the yeast again.

Slightly off topic as I've a Pliny clone just about finished and ready to start dry hopping but would dry hopping at 50 work for this style too or more appropriate to Neipas?

I ferment in SS buckets. So, cannot see if they are floating. I let the hops warm to room temp before i dry hop. They are floating when I put the lid on. I see a sudden raise in gravity on my tilt then by day two it is sitting back the gravity it was before drying hopping. I would say at least some of them are floating enough to confuse the tilt (which is not hard to do).

On the pliny clone, I don't see why not. I mean I don't think hop creep is something i want in any of my beers. But, until today, the last time I brewed a west coast IPA was 2012. So don't take my advice.

 

[Dgallo]

I do not believe it is necessary to go as cold as 50(some yeast may need the lower temp, @couchsending may have more info on yeast strains as I only typically run 2 or 3 in my NEIPA) If tried 50*f a few times but have landed at 58-60. I do not get hopburn at this temp with LAIII or a24 at a 2 oz/gallon dryhoping rate and I’ve enjoy the expression of the hops better than when I dryhoped at 50

 

[Willum]

I do not believe it is necessary to go as cold as 50. If tried 50*f a few times but have landed at 58-60. I do not get hopburn at this temp with LAIII or a24 at a 2 oz/gallon dryhoping rate and I’ve enjoy the expression of the hops better than when I dryhoped at 50

This might be blasphemy, but I stopped using LAIII and Conan for NEIPAs. I use American Ale 2 (1272). It seems to like to start fermenting again at ~60. So, I guess the result will vary based on yeast strain.