New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[MrPowers]

gotcha. i think i'll go ahead and try it out with the cbc/f2 and dextrose. did you just use a regular priming calculator like for bottling?

I calculate it based on sugar weight by volume. You get about .51 volumes of Co2 per additional gravity point. I can't find my reference to that off the top of me head, but it was something from The Beerery/Low Oxygen Brewing website.

There are two tricks. One is figuring out how much Co2 is remaining in solution after fermentation/dry hopping. If dry hopping post soft crashing, I usually assume zero Co2 left, because dry hops dislodge a lot of Co2 from solution due to the additional nucleation points.

The second is figuring out how much additional attenuation you will get from hop creep. This is very hard to predict and varies based on hop variety/quantity/dry hop length/hop freshness/etc...

Assuming zero residual Co2 from fermentation, that means you need 5 gravity points to get to 2.55 vol Co2. You get some unknown amount of additional fermentation from hop creep (if dry hopping post soft crash). I assume 2 points, but it usually ends up being more than that. I usually shoot to add enough sugar to raise the gravity by 3 points. That equates to about 3/4lb of dextrose per 12 gallon batch. If I overshoot, I just serve the beer based using head pressure and no external Co2 until the carb level comes into line.

 

[R.A.I.D]

Which NEIPA hops are dank and which are fruit forward?

 

[secretlevel]

Simcoe dry hopped Bell's Hopslam IPA clone. Only one honey bear was hurt in making this baby. Not really a NEIPA but it turns out if you dry hop at over 2oz per gallon, this is what your beer will look like.

This is the first time I dry hopped loose, and the results are day and night. From a medium haze (that my usual NEIPA has) to full on orange juice, even though this beer doesn't have any oats or wheat. This is where my question comes in, does anyone else use muslin bags to a good degree? Loose hops seem to clog everything when I transfer...

Grist: 2-row, Vienna, C40, honey. Full disclosure, I accidentally forgot to drop in whirlfloc.

Which NEIPA hops are dank and which are fruit forward?

Most breweries use fruit forward hops like your Citra's, Galaxy, Mosaic, Nelson, etc.
A few dank ones I've used and have seen breweries that are fruity, dank, and work in NEIPA: Idaho 7, Amarillo, Simcoe (probably more fruity though), Centennial, and Motueka is a bit of an inbetween.

 

[nick sekerak]

What’s temp are you guys soft crashing to when using A24 dry hop. I lost my notes on it. I was thinking 50 but just wanted to double check.

this is for the 24-36 hr soft crash before Before dry hopping

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Ive soft crashed to 57, 55, and 50. with my limited experience, as long as I can visualize the beer "clearing" nicely due to remaining yeast dropping out thats all that matters. I've been sticking with 55 degrees lately and holding it for about 20-24hrs.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

So Im going to give the CItra/Nelson/Galaxy another try. Before I used warrior for bittering only. Also before, I went with equal ratios for Citra/Nelson/Galaxy throughout and perceived that the galaxy drowned out the citra/nelson a little bit so this is my attempt at "backing" off of the galaxy a little to get more of an equal expression of Citra/Nelson/Galaxy. Open to suggestions on this hop schedule. Ive been enjoying Columbus a lot lately too which is why I brought it into the fold beyond the bittering charge. The beer is a low double NEIPA with an OG of 1.072 and estimated to finish at 1.015 ~7.6%ABV. WP temp is 150 throughout. DH times represent # of days prior to cold crashing. Using A24 yeast on this one.

Any/All thoughts on hop schedule (all measurements in ounces) are definitely appreciated! Be kind or cruel - I got thick skin lol. Open to suggestions

 

[couchsending]

In my opinion you’d be much better off moving some of those WP hops into the dry hop. Most commercial examples of this style are hitting what translates to 12oz of DH at a minimum for a double IPA of this style. I’d add 4oz all at once for your WP and add the rest to the DH plus more. The amount of hop character that makes it into the final beer is more efficiently achieved with dry hopping vs WP.

 

[Clyde McCoy]

In my opinion you’d be much better off moving some of those WP hops into the dry hop. Most commercial examples of this style are hitting what translates to 12oz of DH at a minimum for a double IPA of this style. I’d add 4oz all at once for your WP and add the rest to the DH plus more. The amount of hop character that makes it into the final beer is more efficiently achieved with dry hopping vs WP.

Have you noticed a difference between your beers with 6, 8, 10, 12 oz dry hop?

 

[jturman35]

I'm going to play devils advocate here. I have gotten killer aroma with only 6oz dry hops, 2oz of those were in the keg. However this was an all Citra beer with 6oz WP and 6oz dry hop. Beer was amazing for two months start/finish. Granted Citra is known as one of the Banger hops at 13.3AA!

With this said my next batch i plan on testing this theory using a smaller 4oz WP and 11oz worth of Dry hops. I'm typically around 6-8oz max in the DH. It seems many great recipe's in here use more hops in the dry hop than WP. I will report back in a month!

 

[Clyde McCoy]

I'm going to play devils advocate here. I have gotten killer aroma with only 6oz dry hops, 2oz of those were in the keg. However this was an all Citra beer with 6oz WP and 6oz dry hop. Beer was amazing for two months start/finish.

With that said my next batch i plan on testing this theory using a smaller 4oz WP and 11oz worth of Dry hops. I'm typically around 6-8oz max. It seems many great recipe's in here use more hops in the dry hop than WP. I will report back in a month!

SOP for me for a 5-gallon batch is:

Kettle: CO2 extract
WP: 2 or 3 oz
DH: 6 or 5 oz

8 oz total for WP and DH combined. This is roughly consistent with what JC Tetreault recommended several years ago.

Beers haven't been lacking in aroma/flavor...but I will experiment with more...

 

[Noob_Brewer]

For context: Ive only a handful of home-brews under my belt (n=13 ), but most have been NEIPAs and Im fairly systematic with making changes. For the regular NEIPAs (not doubles) I've systematically experimented with shifting the % of hops between the boil-WP-Dryhop but have kept the total hop magnitude to about 12.5-12.75oz. The one time I shifted some of the WP hops to the dry hop - I found that the beer lost some of its flavor. All the other times, my NEIPAs have had fantastic flavor but lacked a little in the aroma category. The only double Ive brewed (which I kegged today and tasted great!) I upped the hop total to 14.5oz. With that being said, I agree with @couchsending that I should increase the Dryhop amounts which should help in the aroma category. The highest Ive ever gone is 6.75oz total in DH, and will increase to 8oz total which puts it at around 1.33oz/gallon (I have 6gallons in fermenter). From what Ive read in Janish's compilation book, there is little difference in overall sensory scores for hop intensity between 8g/L (~1.07oz/gal) and 16g/L (~2.14oz/gal). So with that, I'll baby step up my dry hop rates until I am satisfied.

I’d add 4oz all at once for your WP

So this is interesting. If Im maintaining the same WP temp for a full hour, Im wondering if Im hurting myself by "layering" the hops. It does make sense to layer if the temps are changing, but my thoughts on layering at the same temp was to help with extraction by adding little doses at a time. But if contact time is a bigger determinant in maximizing hop flavor during WP, it does make sense to add them all at once.

12oz of DH at a minimum for a double IPA

Gosh damn thats a lot of hops! lol. I think I will "baby step" my dry hops upwards and keep re-evaluating.

using a smaller 4oz WP and 11oz worth of Dry hops.

Please let us know in a month how this goes.

12oz of DH at a minimum for a double IPA

The amount of hop character that makes it into the final beer is more efficiently achieved with dry hopping vs WP

This is what doesn't make any sense to me, respectfully of course. If you need 12oz of dry hop to bring out the hop character, I respectfully don't think this is by any means efficient. Point taken though is that I agree I do need to up my dry hop rates - which I think I will do for sure.

Thanks all and cheers!

 

[couchsending]

Have you noticed a difference between your beers with 6, 8, 10, 12 oz dry hop?

yup

I rarely go above 10 as it’s a huge PITA in the conicals I ferment in. The difference between 6 and 10 is pretty noticeable.

 

[couchsending]

Have you guys had an 8lb/bbl dry hopped beer? Especially made by someone who knows what they’re doing? Personally I would never go that high as I don’t really enjoy it but the hop intensity as rather insane. If done correctly it’s not intense in a bad way either. No burn or astringency just INTENSE. I’ve had a few from Monkish and Cellarmaker that are around that hop load and it’s unique for sure.

Anyone else see the recent Alvarado St beer with the Homebrew recipe on the label? Galaxy, Citra, Denali “unfiltered” WC IPA. 7% beer. 16 plato. 14oz DH. Doesn’t list WP amounts just says Galaxy, Citra, Denali to 40 IBUs in WP. If you don’t know Alvarado or don’t follow them I’d recommend. One of the West Coasts best hoppy beer breweries.

In regards to WP vs DH. There is so much info out there to suggest that WP is a less efficient way to get hop aroma/flavor into the beer. Think about it, those oils/flavor compounds have to survive fermentation. They not only get blown off with Co2 but also dragged down by yeast. If you’re adding hops (and some head pressure) after fermentation the character is much more likely to stay in your beer. You also have alcohol and pH to think about which affect extraction of specific compounds.

Yes I’ve seen and heard the OSU study that says more than 2#/bbl equals diminishing returns. However try it for yourself. The difference in hop intensity at 6oz vs 12oz is dramatically different. Is it twice as intense and aromatic? Maybe not. Is it very noticeable? Yes!

For a vast majority of the good commercial breweries producing what people like to call NEIPA you’re looking at around 4lb/bbl DH rates for a 6.5-7% beer. Plenty of places are going well beyond that for beers over 8%.

 

[kevink]

I have been hopping at a rate of 3 lbs per 10 gallons (~9 lbs per bbl) of finished beer for a few years now. But, that's finished beer. Those 3 lbs go into way more than 10 gallons of liquid. Not sure how breweries calculate their ratios. Do they use finished beer or the amount of liquid the hops go into? I'm guessing finished beer so their ratios look more impressive. Now, my 3 lbs is flameout, whirlpool, and dry hop combined and more always go in the dryhop. In my experience, it seems like hop variety makes a bigger difference than quantity, but I have not conducted any side by side experiments or anything fancy like that (how I would love for two identical fementation setups...).

 

[isomerization]

Can we stop referencing the Shellhammer study for dry hop saturation levels? It only used Cascade (whole cones ground into a hop grist, is that close to what a T90 pellet is?) which is not likely to be representative of any hop used in this thread.

edit: adding link to study
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jib.517

 

[stickyfinger]

I am wondering which hops these days are best to give just a slight dank edge to a fruity IPA? I think I'd like to add a little bit of depth/bite/dank, but not a lot. i tried 1 oz/6G of hallertau blanc in my last IPA to try to get a more complex flavor other than just fruit. we'll see how that turns out. i used to like CTZ, but I haven't been happy with it in the dry hop for several brews in a row and stopped using it. It's just too much onion/garlic these days.

 

[MrPowers]

I am wondering which hops these days are best to give just a slight dank edge to a fruity IPA? I think I'd like to add a little bit of depth/bite/dank, but not a lot. i tried 1 oz/6G of hallertau blanc in my last IPA to try to get a more complex flavor other than just fruit. we'll see how that turns out. i used to like CTZ, but I haven't been happy with it in the dry hop for several brews in a row and stopped using it. It's just too much onion/garlic these days.

Apollo is a good hop to bring in some subtle dank.

 

[isomerization]

I am wondering which hops these days are best to give just a slight dank edge to a fruity IPA? I think I'd like to add a little bit of depth/bite/dank, but not a lot. i tried 1 oz/6G of hallertau blanc in my last IPA to try to get a more complex flavor other than just fruit. we'll see how that turns out. i used to like CTZ, but I haven't been happy with it in the dry hop for several brews in a row and stopped using it. It's just too much onion/garlic these days.

I enjoyed a single hop Medusa IPA, had a nice balance of fruity and dank, I’d say 70:30 fruity.

 

[Dgallo]

I am wondering which hops these days are best to give just a slight dank edge to a fruity IPA? I think I'd like to add a little bit of depth/bite/dank, but not a lot. i tried 1 oz/6G of hallertau blanc in my last IPA to try to get a more complex flavor other than just fruit. we'll see how that turns out. i used to like CTZ, but I haven't been happy with it in the dry hop for several brews in a row and stopped using it. It's just too much onion/garlic these days.

Dank/earthy : Columbus, mosaic, Citra (sometimes) Apollo, summit, nugget, comet, Idaho 7
I seem to get more dank on the hot side use

 

[Dgallo]

I enjoyed a single hop Medusa IPA, had a nice balance of fruity and dank, I’d say 70:30 fruity.

I forgot about Medusa. The 3 times I’ve used it I got some dankness too

 

[jturman35]

After reading some comments in this thread and drinking a few beers last night I decided to throw in an extra 2oz of Idaho 7, on top of the 2oz already in there. That leaves me at 5oz Citra/ 4oz Idaho 7 in a 5gal batch. I report back on the dankness level. I seem to struggle with leaving the recipe alone, lol!

Damn I love home brewing.

 

[Loud Brewing]

My typical dryhop for most ipas is 9-12 oz per 6 gal of fermenter volume (5 gal into keg). I have gone bigger but noticed little difference. I have said this before but it bears repeating, my biggest improvement in hop utilization and has come from dropping the yeast post terminal (soft crash) and splitting the dryhop between 2-3 dosages as to maximize hop/beer surface contact. It takes a bit more time and effort, but has dramatically increased my dryhop taste and aroma.

 

[R.A.I.D]

Is it better to soft crash post fermentation and before dry hopping vs cold crash post fermentation and before dry hopping?

 

[rickyrich]

Is it better to soft crash post fermentation and before dry hopping vs cold crash post fermentation and before dry hopping?

I just did a cold crash before dry hopping. I wanted to try that out vs a soft crash. I will report back.

 

[rickyrich]

Hop Help!

So I had a mosaic/cashmere hazy and loved it! I decided to do that. Went cashmere/mosaic in the kettle. I was going to hit it with straight mosaic in the DH but I just realized I have no more mosaic. I have these. Please advise! Thanks.


Idaho 7
Idaho Gem
Sabro
Strata
Zappa
Bru1
Hallertau Blanc
Loral

I also have Citra but I was trying to refrain from Citra/Mosaic combo this round.

https://otherhalfbrewing.com/beer/daydream-layers-mosaicidaho-7cashmere/
Hmmm?!?!

Cashmere and Mosaic in the kettle with Strata/Sabro/Bru1 DH? Sooo many hops!! LOL

Thanks!

 

[Paul_Aris]

I brewed this recipe last night using the orignal posters updated recipe except I used Citra and Simcoe because I already had those on hand. Added them at 160 degrees after the boil. I did no 60 minute additons and only boiled for 30 min. I wll be adding hops to the fermentor tomorrow evening.

 

[Dgallo]

Hop Help!

So I had a mosaic/cashmere hazy and loved it! I decided to do that. Went cashmere/mosaic in the kettle. I was going to hit it with straight mosaic in the DH but I just realized I have no more mosaic. I have these. Please advise! Thanks.


Idaho 7
Idaho Gem
Sabro
Strata
Zappa
Bru1
Hallertau Blanc
Loral

I also have Citra but I was trying to refrain from Citra/Mosaic combo this round.

https://otherhalfbrewing.com/beer/daydream-layers-mosaicidaho-7cashmere/
Hmmm?!?!

Cashmere and Mosaic in the kettle with Strata/Sabro/Bru1 DH? Sooo many hops!! LOL

Thanks!

maybe just the sabro/bru1 and get some coconut and peach notes to pair with the cashmere mosaic. I’d personally rock the Citra too but I know you’re trying to avoid it.

I have an Amarillo, Cashmere, Citra, and Sabro NEIIPA on day 7 run with A24. Can’t wait to dryhop this beer, the aroma from the esters and Citra, Cashmere, and Sabro on the hotside is just beautiful.

 

[aaronm13]

I am wondering which hops these days are best to give just a slight dank edge to a fruity IPA? I think I'd like to add a little bit of depth/bite/dank, but not a lot. i tried 1 oz/6G of hallertau blanc in my last IPA to try to get a more complex flavor other than just fruit. we'll see how that turns out. i used to like CTZ, but I haven't been happy with it in the dry hop for several brews in a row and stopped using it. It's just too much onion/garlic these days.

Strata is very dank to me. Also Medusa too I believe, have a half pound of it to use in my next brew.

 

[couchsending]

I’ll keep saying it. Strata is the jam! It’s a very mixed bag of fruit that’s at times more Australian than American but it has this little bit of dankness that’s kinda clean almost. I believe someone at Sierra Nevada said “wafting joint from around the corner”. I did get a horrible bag of it from YVH that was straight onion/garlic that I threw out but for the most part Strata has been really consistent. I just kegged my fourth Strata focused beer a couple days ago. Two Pale and two IPAs. One of each pairing Strata with Chinook and one of each pairing Strata with Amarillo and Centennial. I’ve loved them all. It brings this new dimension to some classic hop profiles.

Seems like West Coast breweries have jumped on it a little faster than other places. I guess you can’t even contract for it right now if you don’t have one already.

 

[aaronm13]

Fermenting my Other Half "All Together" version now so when thats finished I want to brew straight away. All my banger hops are gone so need to use up what I have before putting in another Yakima order. I'm leaning towards Simcoe, Medusa and Ekuanot. Would love some input on this combination.

Also have around 6oz of Strata so could use that too. Usually go with just 3 types for some reason so would be open to 4. Have a small bit of Amarillo, 10oz Idaho 7 and 8oz of Columbus left if any of these would work better.

 

[stickyfinger]

did a citra-waimea. i like it a lot. the waimea seems to give it this very fresh out of the bag character - i guess more pine-like. i’d experiment with more waimea for sure.

EDIT: now that it's aged it's even better. i think waimea is one of my new favorite hops! i need to try more new zealand hops!

 

[GearHead71]

This is my new favorite beer I've brewed so far.

 

[Frieds]

This is my new favorite beer I've brewed so far.

View attachment 678544

Looks delicious

 

[Noob_Brewer]

This is my new favorite beer I've brewed so far.

View attachment 678544

What’s the general grain bill you used? Hops? Share the deets!

 

[GearHead71]

What’s the general grain bill you used? Hops? Share the deets!

I followed his "2nd update" recipe exactly except hops I did .5oz warrior FWH and then 4oz citra and 2oz Galaxy whirlpool and same thing for dry hop

 

[Clyde McCoy]

Have you guys had an 8lb/bbl dry hopped beer? Especially made by someone who knows what they’re doing? Personally I would never go that high as I don’t really enjoy it but the hop intensity as rather insane. If done correctly it’s not intense in a bad way either. No burn or astringency just INTENSE. I’ve had a few from Monkish and Cellarmaker that are around that hop load and it’s unique for sure.

Anyone else see the recent Alvarado St beer with the Homebrew recipe on the label? Galaxy, Citra, Denali “unfiltered” WC IPA. 7% beer. 16 plato. 14oz DH. Doesn’t list WP amounts just says Galaxy, Citra, Denali to 40 IBUs in WP. If you don’t know Alvarado or don’t follow them I’d recommend. One of the West Coasts best hoppy beer breweries.

In regards to WP vs DH. There is so much info out there to suggest that WP is a less efficient way to get hop aroma/flavor into the beer. Think about it, those oils/flavor compounds have to survive fermentation. They not only get blown off with Co2 but also dragged down by yeast. If you’re adding hops (and some head pressure) after fermentation the character is much more likely to stay in your beer. You also have alcohol and pH to think about which affect extraction of specific compounds.

Yes I’ve seen and heard the OSU study that says more than 2#/bbl equals diminishing returns. However try it for yourself. The difference in hop intensity at 6oz vs 12oz is dramatically different. Is it twice as intense and aromatic? Maybe not. Is it very noticeable? Yes!

For a vast majority of the good commercial breweries producing what people like to call NEIPA you’re looking at around 4lb/bbl DH rates for a 6.5-7% beer. Plenty of places are going well beyond that for beers over 8%.

On whirlpool v. dry hop:

"Whirlpool additions produced beers with the highest concentrations of geraniol, linalool, and β-citronellol"

"This research shows that despite the popularity of dry hopping as an aroma hopping method, whirlpool additions can produce more intensely aromatic beers."

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1094/ASBCJ-2017-2144-01
With some major caveats like "Dry-hop treatments were placed in nylon mesh bags and added to fermentation vessels just prior to terminal gravity during the diacetyl rest (hence, in the presence of yeast)" and "hop pellets were dosed at a fixed rate of 1.5 g/L" ( 0.2 oz /gal)

I haven't tested this enough myself to comment.

WP ~1 lbs/bbl and DH 2-4 lbs/bbl seems pretty standard today.

 

[isomerization]

WP ~1 lbs/bbl and DH 2-4 lbs/bbl seems pretty standard today.

I (slightly) disagree, especially considering you posted this in a thread recommending a 50:50 split. Personally, I had been doing the very close to 50:50, probably 40:60, but am trying 33:67 on latest batch (6 oz kettle,12 oz DH in 6 gal DIPA).

 

[Dgallo]

I (slightly) disagree, especially considering you posted this in a thread recommending a 50:50 split. Personally, I had been doing the very close to 50:50, probably 40:60, but am trying 33:67 on latest batch (6 oz kettle,12 oz DH in 6 gal DIPA).

I’m very similar to you. I’m about 12% in boil/fo, 30% whirlpool and 58% dryhop. I’m at a total hoping rate of 4lbs/bbl in single ipas, doubles roughly 5lb/bbl, and the triples roughly 6lb/bbl. Obviously this changes slightly based on the actual og since I calculate my oz/GU so I can keep my hoping rate equivalent to match the bigger gravity. This equates to a 6-7 oz dryhop for singles, 8-9 oz for doubles, and 10-12 oz for triples.

I’ve found if i increase the dryhoping rates too much, I’ll get a hoppy beer, but not one that really hits that bright, varietal specific profile. I still strongly believe more is not always better.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

does anyone else use muslin bags to a good degree? Loose hops seem to clog everything when I transfer...

I don't use bags of any kind to dry hop. I put them in loose and let em do their thing. I think the key here is that to avoid any clogging, you need to get a good cold crash to serving temps prior to transferring. Im using a floating dip tube that exits through a fermonster lid modified with a ball lock connection, so I can't afford for a clog either. But Ive never had a clog in my limited experience. Its been working really well.

 

[jturman35]

You ever brew a beer and wonder wth happened? The color on this beer came out looking off and oxidized. Granted I’m Pretty hard on anything I brew. Been 17 days in the keg and just now starting to mellow out a tad. This is not my best NEIPA as this beer is quite pungent. I tried to get too fancy with the hot side hops and this is just too bitter. Also still scratching my head on the color. Straight cedar/wood with a hint of coconut, picking up a little lime also. It’s starting to grow on me but I wouldn’t brew this again Sabro is quite pungent!

Pils
2lb Malted oats
1lb White wheat
4oz honey malt
6oz sugar

Dry Hop Day 3
1oz Simcoe
1oz Amarillo

Dry Hop day 12
Sabro 4oz
Motueka 3.25oz ran out