New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

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I just recently watched a video where they interviewed the owner of weldworks. They were talking about dry hopping and how many times they dry hop juicy bits and I wrote it all down at work so I don't have it in front of me but it was 2 or 3 times they dry hop that one. Never had juicy bits myself but it's gotten a lot of good reviews
Lawson's Finest crashes and then dry hops. Triple Crossing which a lot of people here haven't heard of but is one of the best hazy makers in Richmond does it twice. I think Monkish said they dry hop after fermentation. Janish said he does it twice. Aslin which I was critical of in this thread does it after fermentation. Pinthouse Pizza said they experiment with it both ways.
 
I just paired Riwaka, Nelson, Citra, and Columbus (3.5:1.5:1:1 ratio)in a TIPA and Riwaka is really unique. It’s like like sweet and zesty citrus with a hint of pine but there’s this huge punch like profile to it. It’s got that nz hop thing but def brings more dimensions. I think you’ll like it

Have you used Riwaka on its own? I’m curious if it stands up to a single hop beer.
 
Have you used Riwaka on its own? I’m curious if it stands up to a single hop beer.
I have not but I’ve had Hill Farmstead Double Riwaka twice and it did. That’s why I chose to pair it in an ipa not make a single hop pale with it.
 
I have not but I’ve had Hill Farmstead Double Riwaka twice and it did. That’s why I chose to pair it in an ipa not make a single hop pale with it.
Yeah I had the Riwaka Pale Ale there. Frankly (this is my favorite brewery) it wasn't that expressive. At the time I was enthralled with Mary on draft....so that could have been clouding my judgment. Thanks for replying...just curious what another brewers experience was with it....considering their usage and process.
 
Yeah I had the Riwaka Pale Ale there. Frankly (this is my favorite brewery) it wasn't that expressive. At the time I was enthralled with Mary on draft....so that could have been clouding my judgment. Thanks for replying...just curious what another brewers experience was with it....considering their usage and process.
I’d still say single hop if or just do a small bittering charge of magnum and then riwaka from there on out. It has a very high oil content for being such a low alpha. My batch was 5.1 alpha only. Used 7 ounces of it in the triple
 
I just paired Riwaka, Nelson, Citra, and Columbus (3.5:1.5:1:1 ratio)in a TIPA and Riwaka is really unique. It’s like like sweet and zesty citrus with a hint of pine but there’s this huge punch like profile to it. It’s got that nz hop thing but def brings more dimensions. I think you’ll like it
That sounds AMAZING. Dank-bomb? Love dank brews.
 
Good to hear!

Do you perform the soft crashing at all?
Do you spund these NEIPAs at all?

Here's my take on spunding.

This may be obvious to some, but you have to be very deliberate about how you do it. Janish posted something here:
http://scottjanish.com/headspace-hazy-ipa-oxidation/

He kind of alludes to it. I think the problem here was that he pressurized with air inside. If you do this or you pressurize right at yeast pitch, by the time the yeast start producing enough CO2 to overcome the pressure of the air/CO2 mix, you will have already oxidized. The effect is magnified with increasing headspace.

My first two NEIPAs in my 10 gal kegmenter seen here:

IMG_20190912_183252.jpg

with hop cannon were like his. Super oxidized. So I've changed my process. Now I let the beer almost go to completion under atmospheric, then spund, and lo and behold, no oxidation.

The message here is, be sure when you pressurize, there is absolutely no air left in the system, or all you will be doing is forcing O2 into your beer. This can be tricky if you aren't careful about yeast activity and how you're dry hopping.

Because of this, I would also present the argument that improper spunding like mentioned above is actually worse than not closed transferring, depending on the method used (keg purge, etc).
 
Update:

I tried my first attempt at soft crashing down to 58 for 2 days then raised the temp around 64deg for a very short 36 hr dry hop. (3Motueka/2Simcoe/1Sabro)Aroma is very muted but I’m enjoying the flavor. I’m wondering if the Simcoe/Sabro being from 2018 has anything to do with the aroma. They didn’t seem to pop out of the package. Hard to explain, but has a beer aroma that I have never experienced in a NEIPA. I am picking up on the hop oils which is nice. Bitterness is tame and seems balanced but the aroma just isn’t there. Maybe it’s still green at day 14 in the keg.

I have a Citra only beer that’s two months old and it has quite a bit more aroma. Could just be my hop combo is clashing. This is still a good beer, but im looking for that unicorn! I may rebrew and on the next batch use (3Simcoe/2Motueka/1.5 Bravo) i want more coconut. I am also thinking of layering the whirlpool hops just like the Juicy Bits clone.



IMG_8751.JPG
 
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Update:

I tried my first attempt at soft crashing down to 58 for 2 days then raised the temp around 64deg for a very short 36 hr dry hop. (3Motueka/2Simcoe/1Sabro)Aroma is very muted but I’m enjoying the flavor. I’m wandering if the Simcoe/Sabro being from 2018 has anything to do with it. They didn’t seem to pop out of the package. Hard to explain, but has a beer aroma that I have never experienced in a NEIPA. I am picking up on the hop oils which is nice. Bitterness is tame and seems balance but the aroma just isn’t there.Maybe it’s still green at day 14 in the keg.

I have a Citra only beer that’s two months old and it has quite a bit more aroma. Could be my hop combo is clashing.



View attachment 663613
What did it look like during dryhoping. I feel like that’s s large amount all at ounce for only a day and a half of contact time. Where they bagged? If not did you aggregate.

I do a dbl dry hop one for 72, the other for 48 and have 3-4 oz in each and aggregate that seems to give me the best result.
 
What did it look like during dryhoping. I feel like that’s s large amount all at ounce for only a day and a half of contact time. Where they bagged? If not did you aggregate.

I do a dbl dry hop one for 72, the other for 48 and have 3-4 oz in each and aggregate that seems to give me the best result.

Dgallo, i threw them in loose and they floated straight to the bottom of the conical, I could see them in the site glass. The all Citra beer i did 2oz of citra (day 3) day12 and 2oz in the keg. This turned out very good! I will probably go back to DDH and a small keg charge.
 
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Dgallo, i threw them in loose and they floated straight to the bottom of the conical, I could see them in the site glass. The all Citra beer i did 2oz of citra (day 3) day12 and 2oz in the keg. This turned out very good! I will probably go back to DDH and a small keg charge.
Were you able to drop trub and yeast prior to dryhoping?
 
Here's my take on spunding.

This may be obvious to some, but you have to be very deliberate about how you do it. Janish posted something here:
http://scottjanish.com/headspace-hazy-ipa-oxidation/

He kind of alludes to it. I think the problem here was that he pressurized with air inside. If you do this or you pressurize right at yeast pitch, by the time the yeast start producing enough CO2 to overcome the pressure of the air/CO2 mix, you will have already oxidized. The effect is magnified with increasing headspace.

My first two NEIPAs in my 10 gal kegmenter seen here:

View attachment 663600

with hop cannon were like his. Super oxidized. So I've changed my process. Now I let the beer almost go to completion under atmospheric, then spund, and lo and behold, no oxidation.

The message here is, be sure when you pressurize, there is absolutely no air left in the system, or all you will be doing is forcing O2 into your beer. This can be tricky if you aren't careful about yeast activity and how you're dry hopping.

Because of this, I would also present the argument that improper spunding like mentioned above is actually worse than not closed transferring, depending on the method used (keg purge, etc).
He didn't spund improperly. His fermenter had a leak and his beer was oxidized before he even dry hopped and added the spunding valve. The massive headspace his fermenter had definitely exasperated the issue. In this situation he don't even need to spund since fermentation is done and there's no activity to manage but maybe he wanted to just see a precise psi number. If you have a properly sealing keg you can dry hop, purge and pressurize it. I've done it many times in the past without major oxidation issues. I do it a little differently now to minimize O2 even more but I never had whole batches go bad doing it the previous way.
 
86270E6C-1912-45A1-B35B-34B1EFDB11B9.jpeg
This is my most recent NEIPA. It’s a triple at 10.5% abv. Riwaka, Nelson, Citra, and Columbus. 2 row, white wheat, flaked oats, and honey malt. Finish 1.018. View attachment 663771

What’s giving it that lovely orange juice colour? I find a lot of my hazies are more on the yellow side. I usually just use Golden Promise & Oats but my latest brew i used some Vienna as well and was happier with the colour, but It’s still something I’m trying to work on.

Edit: Here is my latest brew for comparison. I do like the way it looks but it still doesn’t have that amazing orange juice aesthetic like yours.
 
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View attachment 663847

What’s giving it that lovely orange juice colour? I find a lot of my hazies are more on the yellow side. I usually just use Golden Promise & Oats but my latest brew i used some Vienna as well and was happier with the colour, but It’s still something I’m trying to work on.

Edit: Here is my latest brew for comparison. I do like the way it looks but it still doesn’t have that amazing orange juice aesthetic like yours.
Your’s looks good to man. For my more orange Lookinh NEIPAs i use honey malt but you could technically use any grain that’s in the 20-30L range at around 3-5%. Sometimes I use CaraMunich
 
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Your’s looks good to man. For my more orange Lookinh NEIPAs i use honey malt but you could technically use any grain that’s in the 20-30L range at around 3-5%. Sometimes I use CaraMunich

That one was definitely my “orangest” looking hazy to date and I think the Vienna malt played a huge part in that, but I’ve read before to try and avoid crystal malts in these types of beers. My LHBS doesn’t have Honey Malt so I haven’t used it before but I think I’ll try and source it from another shop. Thanks!
 
Your’s looks good to man. For my more orange Lookinh NEIPAs i use honey malt but you could technically use any grain that’s in the 20-30L range at around 3-5%. Sometimes I use CaraMunich

Dgallo's looks pretty dang tasty at 10%! Looking at the pics our's look pretty close. I find myself going higher on the flaked oats / flaked wheat in the future. I may sub white wheat on the next batch.

7lbs MO
6lbs Golden Promise
1lb flaked wheat
1lb flaked oats
8 oz Honey malt


Frieds with all that said yours looks like a glass of "Ghost in the Machine" sitting there. I would be happy with that color!
 
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View attachment 663847

What’s giving it that lovely orange juice colour? I find a lot of my hazies are more on the yellow side. I usually just use Golden Promise & Oats but my latest brew i used some Vienna as well and was happier with the colour, but It’s still something I’m trying to work on.

Edit: Here is my latest brew for comparison. I do like the way it looks but it still doesn’t have that amazing orange juice aesthetic like yours.
Try putting it in a more slim glass in the right light it will get more glowing.
 
Does anyone have any experience with using Kohatu hops in a Hazy IPA? I’ve got 250g that I want to use in my next Hazy but not sure how to optimise their use.
 
He didn't spund improperly. His fermenter had a leak and his beer was oxidized before he even dry hopped and added the spunding valve. The massive headspace his fermenter had definitely exasperated the issue. In this situation he don't even need to spund since fermentation is done and there's no activity to manage but maybe he wanted to just see a precise psi number. If you have a properly sealing keg you can dry hop, purge and pressurize it. I've done it many times in the past without major oxidation issues. I do it a little differently now to minimize O2 even more but I never had whole batches go bad doing it the previous way.
Ah yes I see what you're saying and I agree. Once you have a pure CO2 environment that works.

There was also some talk of requiring a certain pressure to seal the keg. My thought is that unless you use a ton of CO2, it would be very hard to get that pressure on the system with pure CO2 before fermentation starts. This is also exasperated with a larger head space (and definitely was a problem for me before I changed my process).
 
Does anyone have any experience with using Kohatu hops in a Hazy IPA? I’ve got 250g that I want to use in my next Hazy but not sure how to optimise their use.

I made a pale ale with mostly Kohatu and a little Mosaic to complement. Not sure if it was the batch from YVH this year or this hop in general, but it is definitely not super pungent. A real nice "fruity pebbles" type aroma. I am not getting a lot of pine as the descriptor says. It made a really nice, pleasant, fruity pale ale. Not sure how it would working in a higher abv beer. I think it needs another hop to add complexity personally.
 
Has anyone tried the Juicy Bits method of slowing adding multiple small portions of hops at FWH and throughout the whirlpool? I know Pliny and 90/60 mins IPA do this but I’m thinking of trying this on my next batch and using 1lb of hops in a 5 gal batch!
 
Has anyone tried the Juicy Bits method of slowing adding multiple small portions of hops at FWH and throughout the whirlpool? I know Pliny and 90/60 mins IPA do this but I’m thinking of trying this on my next batch and using 1lb of hops in a 5 gal batch!

I have not. I have only added 0.5oz FWH with Warrior then added one drop of 3oz total at 5min left in boil and then another 3oz in 30minute whirlpool. But I really like the idea of staggering or layering the additions in the whirlpool (similar to multiple dry hops). Interesting that the hop schedule adds up to only 9.15oz of hops total for the 5 gallon batch that is posted here: https://beerandbrewing.com/weldwerks-brewing-co-juicy-bits-new-england-style-ipa/

My first two brews both used 12.5oz total (6.5 hot side, 6 in dry hopping). For my own "research" I might just take my normal hot side additions (6oz) and layer them in a whirlpool as well. But will stick with FWH at 0.5oz I think.

EDIT: I didn't watch the full u-tube link on this, but the beer and brewing website doesn't specify whirlpool temps. Is this a free fall from flameout for 40 minutes then immediately chill to pitching temps?
 
I wondering the exact same thing myself about the whirlpool temps. Never had Juicy bits but I like a more aggressive beer so I would likely add at least 12oz of hops. My next beer I’m going for a full pound and see what happens!
 
various white papers have stated that hop oils become unstable above 180F and "flash off" into the void, your wort not retaining them. So adding hops at Flame Out or in Whilrpools above this temperature risk hop oil loss.

Also- the isomerization of hop alpha acids (making your wort more bitter) slows at this temperature... exponentially.

isoalphaacidconcentraion.jpg


https://alchemyoverlord.wordpress.com/2016/03/06/an-analysis-of-sub-boiling-hop-utilization/

So FO additions vs whirlpool all depends on what you want, and how you cool your wort between whirlpool and your Flame Out. I tried the "flame out" addition without thinking this out a few times, and always ended up with higher IBUs than I intended. It's all about temperature and time. Simple.
 
various white papers have stated that hop oils become unstable above 180F and "flash off" into the void, your wort not retaining them. So adding hops at Flame Out or in Whilrpools above this temperature risk hop oil loss.

Also- the isomerization of hop alpha acids (making your wort more bitter) slows at this temperature... exponentially.

isoalphaacidconcentraion.jpg


https://alchemyoverlord.wordpress.com/2016/03/06/an-analysis-of-sub-boiling-hop-utilization/

So FO additions vs whirlpool all depends on what you want, and how you cool your wort between whirlpool and your Flame Out. I tried the "flame out" addition without thinking this out a few times, and always ended up with higher IBUs than I intended. It's all about temperature and time. Simple.

Thanks for the link! Yeah for my first two brews I stayed at or under 175 for my hop steep/whirlpool. First brew right at 175 for 30minutes: second brew? I way overshot my target temp of 160 using immersion chiller as it chilled so fast! Ended up starting whirlpool at 140, chucked the hops in, and increased temperature to 170 by the end of whirlpool, so time spent at 165-170 was minimal. :) So it was a backwards whirlpool haha. In the end, the hydrometer sample of beer going into the fermenter was awesome! Happy little accidents. :) But next brew I will try using my same quantity of whirlpool hops but layer them in stages to see how this would affect overall flavor/aroma/complexity of the finished beer.
 
Has anyone tried the Juicy Bits method of slowing adding multiple small portions of hops at FWH and throughout the whirlpool? I know Pliny and 90/60 mins IPA do this but I’m thinking of trying this on my next batch and using 1lb of hops in a 5 gal batch!

I currently use about a pound of hops, though I have to bag the dry hops (for my process), so I need to be on the high end for quantities. I go back and forth for the total quantities, though. On the one hand, there are brewers on this forum who make really good beer (I've had some) that use more like 12 ounces total (and even less).

On the other hand, I keep seeing homebrew recipes shared by top breweries that have 20+ ounces of hops for a 5 gallon batch. On the other other hand, I believe the research that suggests that dry hop extraction maxes out around 1.5 ounces per gallon or so. I have not really seen the same research for hot side, but it IS the case that most folks are putting more hops into the cold side than hot for this style...

As for hot side, there are certainly a lot of brewers and breweries that skip the boil completely and just add hops at flameout or a few minutes after -- and that is all. There is also research that suggests that some good citrus flavors can be extracted around 200. But of course, at those temps you also get more bitterness and lose some hop oils, so it doesn't make a ton of sense to me to add everything at those high temps, unless you are not adding much hops to the wp. But some people really aren't adding that much, and putting a ton into the cold side, which I do think is compelling.

Personally, currently, I think it makes sense to do a small bittering charge (.5 ounces) at 15 mins (or do a FWH), then another at 200, and then do a nice whirlpool at 175 for 30 minutes or so. I am not sure about doing one below that; I currently do add a small charge at 160, just to hedge my bets. At the end of the day, I feel like the whirlpool is very important for both flavor and aroma, but I am still not sure what that means for ratios of hot side to cold side. 25-75? 40-60? I've been closer to 50-50 lately, but I plan to go 40-60 for my next beer.

For cold side, I currently believe in doing a small dry hop charge (almost always Citra) toward the end of fermentation (at about 1.030, which is usually Day 3.5). Then doing a big one 48 hours before bottling. I think Janish's recent article in favor of cold and short is compelling, so I did my most recent final DH at 58 degrees for 48 hours.

My goal, of course, is maximum aroma/flavor and minimum hop burn. My latest is just one week old, but already drinking a lot better than my previous ones. So I think the short and cold final dry hop strategy seems to be a winner in my book...
 
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