New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Dgallo]

View attachment 663847

What’s giving it that lovely orange juice colour? I find a lot of my hazies are more on the yellow side. I usually just use Golden Promise & Oats but my latest brew i used some Vienna as well and was happier with the colour, but It’s still something I’m trying to work on.

Edit: Here is my latest brew for comparison. I do like the way it looks but it still doesn’t have that amazing orange juice aesthetic like yours.

Your’s looks good to man. For my more orange Lookinh NEIPAs i use honey malt but you could technically use any grain that’s in the 20-30L range at around 3-5%. Sometimes I use CaraMunich

 

[Frieds]

Your’s looks good to man. For my more orange Lookinh NEIPAs i use honey malt but you could technically use any grain that’s in the 20-30L range at around 3-5%. Sometimes I use CaraMunich

That one was definitely my “orangest” looking hazy to date and I think the Vienna malt played a huge part in that, but I’ve read before to try and avoid crystal malts in these types of beers. My LHBS doesn’t have Honey Malt so I haven’t used it before but I think I’ll try and source it from another shop. Thanks!

 

[jturman35]

Your’s looks good to man. For my more orange Lookinh NEIPAs i use honey malt but you could technically use any grain that’s in the 20-30L range at around 3-5%. Sometimes I use CaraMunich

Dgallo's looks pretty dang tasty at 10%! Looking at the pics our's look pretty close. I find myself going higher on the flaked oats / flaked wheat in the future. I may sub white wheat on the next batch.

7lbs MO
6lbs Golden Promise
1lb flaked wheat
1lb flaked oats
8 oz Honey malt


Frieds with all that said yours looks like a glass of "Ghost in the Machine" sitting there. I would be happy with that color!

 

[beervoid]

View attachment 663847

What’s giving it that lovely orange juice colour? I find a lot of my hazies are more on the yellow side. I usually just use Golden Promise & Oats but my latest brew i used some Vienna as well and was happier with the colour, but It’s still something I’m trying to work on.

Edit: Here is my latest brew for comparison. I do like the way it looks but it still doesn’t have that amazing orange juice aesthetic like yours.

Try putting it in a more slim glass in the right light it will get more glowing.

 

[Frieds]

Does anyone have any experience with using Kohatu hops in a Hazy IPA? I’ve got 250g that I want to use in my next Hazy but not sure how to optimise their use.

 

[beervoid]

8% citra riwaka neipa.

 

[WIexile]

Love seeing all the recent attempts. Here is mine just tapped 2 days ago.

Single hop Citra, large dose of oat malt, and s-33. One of the best so far.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Love seeing all the recent attempts. Here is mine just tapped 2 days ago.

Single hop Citra, large dose of oat malt, and s-33. One of the best so far.


View attachment 663929

Large dose? What % of grain bill was that?

 

[exit8]

Love seeing all the recent attempts. Here is mine just tapped 2 days ago.

Single hop Citra, large dose of oat malt, and s-33. One of the best so far.

What temp are you fermenting at with S-33?

 

[WIexile]

Large dose? What % of grain bill was that?

23%

What temp are you fermenting at with S-33?

Started at 61 and let it rise naturally with fermentation up to 64 and then back to 61 to finish out.

 

[Dgallo]

Dgallo's looks pretty dang tasty at 10%!

Thanks man! This was the best picture I got of my beer so far

 

[schmurf]

Thanks man! This was the best picture I got of my beer so far View attachment 663932

Close to the edge, living dangerously!

 

[Andre3000]

He didn't spund improperly. His fermenter had a leak and his beer was oxidized before he even dry hopped and added the spunding valve. The massive headspace his fermenter had definitely exasperated the issue. In this situation he don't even need to spund since fermentation is done and there's no activity to manage but maybe he wanted to just see a precise psi number. If you have a properly sealing keg you can dry hop, purge and pressurize it. I've done it many times in the past without major oxidation issues. I do it a little differently now to minimize O2 even more but I never had whole batches go bad doing it the previous way.

Ah yes I see what you're saying and I agree. Once you have a pure CO2 environment that works.

There was also some talk of requiring a certain pressure to seal the keg. My thought is that unless you use a ton of CO2, it would be very hard to get that pressure on the system with pure CO2 before fermentation starts. This is also exasperated with a larger head space (and definitely was a problem for me before I changed my process).

 

[popquizkid]

Does anyone have any experience with using Kohatu hops in a Hazy IPA? I’ve got 250g that I want to use in my next Hazy but not sure how to optimise their use.

I made a pale ale with mostly Kohatu and a little Mosaic to complement. Not sure if it was the batch from YVH this year or this hop in general, but it is definitely not super pungent. A real nice "fruity pebbles" type aroma. I am not getting a lot of pine as the descriptor says. It made a really nice, pleasant, fruity pale ale. Not sure how it would working in a higher abv beer. I think it needs another hop to add complexity personally.

 

[jturman35]

Has anyone tried the Juicy Bits method of slowing adding multiple small portions of hops at FWH and throughout the whirlpool? I know Pliny and 90/60 mins IPA do this but I’m thinking of trying this on my next batch and using 1lb of hops in a 5 gal batch!

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Has anyone tried the Juicy Bits method of slowing adding multiple small portions of hops at FWH and throughout the whirlpool? I know Pliny and 90/60 mins IPA do this but I’m thinking of trying this on my next batch and using 1lb of hops in a 5 gal batch!

I have not. I have only added 0.5oz FWH with Warrior then added one drop of 3oz total at 5min left in boil and then another 3oz in 30minute whirlpool. But I really like the idea of staggering or layering the additions in the whirlpool (similar to multiple dry hops). Interesting that the hop schedule adds up to only 9.15oz of hops total for the 5 gallon batch that is posted here: https://beerandbrewing.com/weldwerks-brewing-co-juicy-bits-new-england-style-ipa/

My first two brews both used 12.5oz total (6.5 hot side, 6 in dry hopping). For my own "research" I might just take my normal hot side additions (6oz) and layer them in a whirlpool as well. But will stick with FWH at 0.5oz I think.

EDIT: I didn't watch the full u-tube link on this, but the beer and brewing website doesn't specify whirlpool temps. Is this a free fall from flameout for 40 minutes then immediately chill to pitching temps?

 

[jturman35]

I wondering the exact same thing myself about the whirlpool temps. Never had Juicy bits but I like a more aggressive beer so I would likely add at least 12oz of hops. My next beer I’m going for a full pound and see what happens!

 

[flintoid]

various white papers have stated that hop oils become unstable above 180F and "flash off" into the void, your wort not retaining them. So adding hops at Flame Out or in Whilrpools above this temperature risk hop oil loss.

Also- the isomerization of hop alpha acids (making your wort more bitter) slows at this temperature... exponentially.

https://alchemyoverlord.wordpress.com/2016/03/06/an-analysis-of-sub-boiling-hop-utilization/

So FO additions vs whirlpool all depends on what you want, and how you cool your wort between whirlpool and your Flame Out. I tried the "flame out" addition without thinking this out a few times, and always ended up with higher IBUs than I intended. It's all about temperature and time. Simple.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

various white papers have stated that hop oils become unstable above 180F and "flash off" into the void, your wort not retaining them. So adding hops at Flame Out or in Whilrpools above this temperature risk hop oil loss.

Also- the isomerization of hop alpha acids (making your wort more bitter) slows at this temperature... exponentially.

https://alchemyoverlord.wordpress.com/2016/03/06/an-analysis-of-sub-boiling-hop-utilization/

So FO additions vs whirlpool all depends on what you want, and how you cool your wort between whirlpool and your Flame Out. I tried the "flame out" addition without thinking this out a few times, and always ended up with higher IBUs than I intended. It's all about temperature and time. Simple.

Thanks for the link! Yeah for my first two brews I stayed at or under 175 for my hop steep/whirlpool. First brew right at 175 for 30minutes: second brew? I way overshot my target temp of 160 using immersion chiller as it chilled so fast! Ended up starting whirlpool at 140, chucked the hops in, and increased temperature to 170 by the end of whirlpool, so time spent at 165-170 was minimal. So it was a backwards whirlpool haha. In the end, the hydrometer sample of beer going into the fermenter was awesome! Happy little accidents. But next brew I will try using my same quantity of whirlpool hops but layer them in stages to see how this would affect overall flavor/aroma/complexity of the finished beer.

 

[SRJHops]

Has anyone tried the Juicy Bits method of slowing adding multiple small portions of hops at FWH and throughout the whirlpool? I know Pliny and 90/60 mins IPA do this but I’m thinking of trying this on my next batch and using 1lb of hops in a 5 gal batch!

I currently use about a pound of hops, though I have to bag the dry hops (for my process), so I need to be on the high end for quantities. I go back and forth for the total quantities, though. On the one hand, there are brewers on this forum who make really good beer (I've had some) that use more like 12 ounces total (and even less).

On the other hand, I keep seeing homebrew recipes shared by top breweries that have 20+ ounces of hops for a 5 gallon batch. On the other other hand, I believe the research that suggests that dry hop extraction maxes out around 1.5 ounces per gallon or so. I have not really seen the same research for hot side, but it IS the case that most folks are putting more hops into the cold side than hot for this style...

As for hot side, there are certainly a lot of brewers and breweries that skip the boil completely and just add hops at flameout or a few minutes after -- and that is all. There is also research that suggests that some good citrus flavors can be extracted around 200. But of course, at those temps you also get more bitterness and lose some hop oils, so it doesn't make a ton of sense to me to add everything at those high temps, unless you are not adding much hops to the wp. But some people really aren't adding that much, and putting a ton into the cold side, which I do think is compelling.

Personally, currently, I think it makes sense to do a small bittering charge (.5 ounces) at 15 mins (or do a FWH), then another at 200, and then do a nice whirlpool at 175 for 30 minutes or so. I am not sure about doing one below that; I currently do add a small charge at 160, just to hedge my bets. At the end of the day, I feel like the whirlpool is very important for both flavor and aroma, but I am still not sure what that means for ratios of hot side to cold side. 25-75? 40-60? I've been closer to 50-50 lately, but I plan to go 40-60 for my next beer.

For cold side, I currently believe in doing a small dry hop charge (almost always Citra) toward the end of fermentation (at about 1.030, which is usually Day 3.5). Then doing a big one 48 hours before bottling. I think Janish's recent article in favor of cold and short is compelling, so I did my most recent final DH at 58 degrees for 48 hours.

My goal, of course, is maximum aroma/flavor and minimum hop burn. My latest is just one week old, but already drinking a lot better than my previous ones. So I think the short and cold final dry hop strategy seems to be a winner in my book...

 

[Noob_Brewer]

I currently use about a pound of hops, though I have to bag the dry hops (for my process), so I need to be on the high end for quantities. I go back and forth for the total quantities, though. On the one hand, there are brewers on this forum who make really good beer (I've had some) that use more like 12 ounces total (and even less).

On the other hand, I keep seeing homebrew recipes shared by top breweries that have 20+ ounces of hops for a 5 gallon batch. On the other other hand, I believe the research that suggests that dry hop extraction maxes out around 1.5 ounces per gallon or so. I have not really seen the same research for hot side, but it IS the case that most folks are putting more hops into the cold side than hot for this style...

As for hot side, there are certainly a lot of brewers and breweries that skip the boil completely and just add hops at flameout or a few minutes after -- and that is all. There is also research that suggests that some good citrus flavors can be extracted around 200. But of course, at those temps you also get more bitterness and lose some hop oils, so it doesn't make a ton of sense to me to add everything at those high temps, unless you are not adding much hops to the wp. But some people really aren't adding that much, and putting a ton into the cold side, which I do think is compelling.

Personally, currently, I think it makes sense to do a small bittering charge (.5 ounces) at 15 mins (or do a FWH), then another at 200, and then do a nice whirlpool at 175 for 30 minutes or so. I am not sure about doing one below that; I currently do add a small charge at 160, just to hedge my bets. At the end of the day, I feel like the whirlpool is very important for both flavor and aroma, but I am still not sure what that means for ratios of hot side to cold side. 25-75? 40-60? I'm currently going with 40-60.

For cold side, I currently believe in doing a small dry hop charge (almost always Citra) toward the end of fermentation (at about 1.030, which is usually Day 3.5). Then doing a big one 48 hours before bottling. I think Janish's recent article in favor of cold and short is compelling, so I did my most recent final DH at 58 degrees for 48 hours.

My goal, of course, is maximum aroma/flavor and minimum hop burn. My latest is just one week old, but already drinking a lot better than my previous ones. So I think the short and cold final dry hop strategy seems to be a winner in my book...

Good stuff SRJ! Thanks for posting. Just for some context so I know where you are coming from, I have a couple questions. By one "large dose 48hrs before bottling" what is your quantity of the dose and batch size in your fermenter when you add this charge? Also, Im assuming you have dry hopped warmer too (65 degrees?). Just curious on what your own sensory analysis is comparing the warm vs cold dry hop temps. Ive read Janish's book several times now making the case for short cold dry hopping, but others (I think @day_trippr and @jturman35) reported the short cold method being described as more muted flavor/aroma compared to warmer temps. SO curious on what you have perceived as the differences too. Thanks!

EDIT: FYI, I just kegged my first beer I ever brewed, and I double dry hopped warm (3oz at each dry hop @ 68 degrees) after soft crashing to 57 degrees with no active fermentation dry hopping. Additionally, I used 0.5oz FWH and then 6 ounces total (3 @ 5 minutes left in boil and 3oz in whirlpool). So I used 12.5oz total. The 6oz in fermenter had about 5.75gallons of wort in the fermonster so thats about just over 1.0oz per gallon for me. Im at day 3 of keg carbing. Aroma is solid, flavor is solid too. I'll see how this pans out after about another week for the beer to carb and condition and report back.

 

[Loud Brewing]

Lately I have been working to reduce my total dry hop dosages in order to achieve a more refined aroma, reduce bright tank time and build recipes that will be economically viable on a commercial scale.
One thing that I dont see discussed in this thread often is increased utilization via rousing.
My question is, how many of you rouse your dryhop additions, at what frequency and what methods?
I saw that @Dgallo mentioned aggregation a few posts back, is this what you meant?
I have been rousing with c02 but it seems to make my dryhops fall out of suspension very quickly and has produced mixed results.

 

[SRJHops]

Good stuff SRJ! Thanks for posting. Just for some context so I know where you are coming from, I have a couple questions. By one "large dose 48hrs before bottling" what is your quantity of the dose and batch size in your fermenter when you add this charge? Also, Im assuming you have dry hopped warmer too (65 degrees?). Just curious on what your own sensory analysis is comparing the warm vs cold dry hop temps. Ive read Janish's book several times now making the case for short cold dry hopping, but others (I think @day_trippr and @jturman35) reported the short cold method being described as more muted flavor/aroma compared to warmer temps. SO curious on what you have perceived as the differences too. Thanks!

EDIT: FYI, I just kegged my first beer I ever brewed, and I double dry hopped warm (3oz at each dry hop @ 68 degrees) after soft crashing to 57 degrees with no active fermentation dry hopping. Additionally, I used 0.5oz FWH and then 6 ounces total (3 @ 5 minutes left in boil and 3oz in whirlpool). So I used 12.5oz total. The 6oz in fermenter had about 5.75gallons of wort in the fermonster so thats about just over 1.0oz per gallon for me. Im at day 3 of keg carbing. Aroma is solid, flavor is solid too. I'll see how this pans out after about another week for the beer to carb and condition and report back.

Kudos on beer #1! Sounds like it went very well.

I used 15 ounces in my latest. 5 gallons. Here is the entire schedule:

.5 Columbus @ 15 mins
.5 Columbus, 1 oz Citra, 1 oz Mosaic, 1 oz Strata @ 200 for 15 mins
1 oz Citra, 2 oz Strata @ 175 for 30 mins
1 oz Strata @ 160 for 15 mins
1 oz Citra, 1 oz Strata at 1.030 SG (was Day 3.5) @ 68 degrees
1 oz Citra, 1 oz Mosaic, 3 oz Strata @ Day 12 @ 58 degrees (48 hours before bottling)

So, I dry hopped during active, warm, and also after fermentation, cold. I have also dry hopped both times warm. And I have skipped the fermentation addition, which I felt harmed the flavor of the beer, so I went back to that, but later in the fermentation.

I am not 100% firm on the processes, since there are so many variables (kinds of hops, amounts, methods, temps, etc). I WILL say that I have been trying to tamp down the hop burn, which I feel comes from dry hopping excessively during active, as well as dry hopping warm. So that is why I currently believe a small dh during active makes sense, followed by a soft crash and final dh cold.

As noted, there are so many variables and approaches. It makes sense to me that you would get higher extraction at warmer temps, but again, the newer research suggests that extraction happens quite quickly and works at lower temps. So if you are trying to avoid hop burn, it makes sense to me to dh colder.

I would suggest that you see what kind of hop burn/astringency you are getting and work from there... There is a balance somewhere that most of us are seeking, between maximizing hop flavor and minimizing hop burn...

 

[jturman35]

And by muted, I mean no aroma whatsoever. I did 6oz @ 63 deg for about 36 hrs. It has that beer smell if you know what I mean. Almost like a blonde ale beer aroma, hard to pick up any hops. On the other hand the flavor/bitterness is spot on, but aroma is seriously lacking.

I have added hops in the end of boil that came out less bitter than an all whirlpool addition. I assume the type of hops plays a big role in how much bitterness comes out. My latest beer had an ounce of Simcoe at like 20 mins and it’s less bitter than all whirlpool Citra.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

And by muted, I mean no aroma whatsoever. I did 6oz @ 63 deg for about 36 hrs. It has that beer smell if you know what I mean. Almost like a blonde ale beer aroma, hard to pick up any hops. On the other hand the flavor/bitterness is spot on, but aroma is seriously lacking.

I have added hops in the end of boil that came out less bitter than an all whirlpool addition. I assume the type of hops plays a big role in how much bitterness comes out. My latest beer had an ounce of Simcoe at like 20 mins and it’s less bitter than all whirlpool Citra.

Wow I didn’t realize you were in the low 60s still when you did this short 36hr charge. My first beer I dryhopped at 68 and the instant the hops hit the beer they swelled up quickly to form a carpet of hops across the top. Aroma afterwards was good. Amazing how much a 5degree difference makes but I also had beer on the hops for 72hrs so that’s playing into this too. Was thinking of dryhopping lower temp for this next homebrew but now I’m questioning it.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Lately I have been working to reduce my total dry hop dosages in order to achieve a more refined aroma, reduce bright tank time and build recipes that will be economically viable on a commercial scale.
One thing that I dont see discussed in this thread often is increased utilization via rousing.
My question is, how many of you rouse your dryhop additions, at what frequency and what methods?
I saw that @Dgallo mentioned aggregation a few posts back, is this what you meant?
I have been rousing with c02 but it seems to make my dryhops fall out of suspension very quickly and has produced mixed results.

Other than hitting CO2 before, during, and after dryhopping, I didn’t purposefully rouse at dedicated times. However, it was fun watching it be aroused by CO2. I also noticed during second dry hop that hops from first charge were slowly falling out of suspension too but since my temps were warm (68) I think I got good extraction though.

 

[Dgallo]

Lately I have been working to reduce my total dry hop dosages in order to achieve a more refined aroma, reduce bright tank time and build recipes that will be economically viable on a commercial scale.
One thing that I dont see discussed in this thread often is increased utilization via rousing.
My question is, how many of you rouse your dryhop additions, at what frequency and what methods?
I saw that @Dgallo mentioned aggregation a few posts back, is this what you meant?
I have been rousing with c02 but it seems to make my dryhops fall out of suspension very quickly and has produced mixed results.

Yes. That’s What I meant. I do a dbl dryhop so I’ll lightly rock the fermenter when I see too much hop material above the beer. If it’s not touching the beer nothing is getting extracted. Sometimes I have to do it s few times and other tines not st all

 

[aaronm13]

This is my lastest attempt. A Strata and Citra combination. First time doing no dry hops till after fermentation has finished and also added a whirlfloc tablet. So still very hazy. I tried this time with a lower dry hop amount, around 12oz usually go around 16-18oz. To be honest I do notice the difference but wanted to see for myself. Think next time I will go back to my normal volume of hops. In the keg about 2.5 weeks and really starting to pop.

 

[wepeeler]

Kudos on beer #1! Sounds like it went very well.

I used 15 ounces in my latest. 5 gallons. Here is the entire schedule:

.5 Columbus @ 15 mins
.5 Columbus, 1 oz Citra, 1 oz Mosaic, 1 oz Strata @ 200 for 15 mins
1 oz Citra, 2 oz Strata @ 175 for 30 mins
1 oz Strata @ 160 for 15 mins
1 oz Citra, 1 oz Strata at 1.030 SG (was Day 3.5) @ 68 degrees
1 oz Citra, 1 oz Mosaic, 3 oz Strata @ Day 12 @ 58 degrees (48 hours before bottling)

So, I dry hopped during active, warm, and also after fermentation, cold. I have also dry hopped both times warm. And I have skipped the fermentation addition, which I felt harmed the flavor of the beer, so I went back to that, but later in the fermentation.

I am not 100% firm on the processes, since there are so many variables (kinds of hops, amounts, methods, temps, etc). I WILL say that I have been trying to tamp down the hop burn, which I feel comes from dry hopping excessively during active, as well as dry hopping warm. So that is why I currently believe a small dh during active makes sense, followed by a soft crash and final dh cold.

As noted, there are so many variables and approaches. It makes sense to me that you would get higher extraction at warmer temps, but again, the newer research suggests that extraction happens quite quickly and works at lower temps. So if you are trying to avoid hop burn, it makes sense to me to dh colder.

I would suggest that you see what kind of hop burn/astringency you are getting and work from there... There is a balance somewhere that most of us are seeking, between maximizing hop flavor and minimizing hop burn...

Just some food for thought: I was getting crazy hop burn with most of my neipas. I was adding very little hops during the boil, and added a huge charge at flameout. We would cool as fast as we could, but this was before getting an immersion chiller. Sometimes it would take 30-40 min. Finally got my hands on a Hydra IC, researched and read every article and picked every brewer's brain I could and decided to chill to 160 or so before adding my whirlpool addition. Been adding 5-6 oz at 160, keep the temp steady and whirlpool for 30 min. I'm still an advocate of dry hopping during active fermentation (both for the biotransformation and stable haze properties). I don't cold crash before my second dry hop either. I usually shoot for 24-36 hours of dry hopping at 60, then keg. Absolutely zero hop burn since the change (whirlpool temp and length). Grain to glass in 2 weeks. No hop burn at all. The beer peaks around week 4, but is crushable as soon as it's carbed.

 

[SRJHops]

Just some food for thought: I was getting crazy hop burn with most of my neipas. I was adding very little hops during the boil, and added a huge charge at flameout. We would cool as fast as we could, but this was before getting an immersion chiller. Sometimes it would take 30-40 min. Finally got my hands on a Hydra IC, researched and read every article and picked every brewer's brain I could and decided to chill to 160 or so before adding my whirlpool addition. Been adding 5-6 oz at 160, keep the temp steady and whirlpool for 30 min. I'm still an advocate of dry hopping during active fermentation (both for the biotransformation and stable haze properties). I don't cold crash before my second dry hop either. I usually shoot for 24-36 hours of dry hopping at 60, then keg. Absolutely zero hop burn since the change (whirlpool temp and length). Grain to glass in 2 weeks. No hop burn at all. The beer peaks around week 4, but is crushable as soon as it's carbed.

Seems pretty close to my process, so good to hear. I too have found that cold dry hopping seems to have created a beer that is ready to drink a lot sooner. Of course, the main goal is aroma and flavor, so that is the remaining question for me. When will this cold dry-hopped beer peak? Will it peak at 1 or 2 weeks, compared to my earlier beers (dry-hopped warm) that peaked at 3-4 weeks? And which will taste best overall, or will both the same? Right now I am giving the nod to the cold dry-hopped beer, but it could be other variables -- including that I used Strata for the first time!