New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[VirginiaHops1]

I did a hazy IPA recently that was out of this world. I'd post a picture but the keg got completely cleared at a party this weekend. It was supposed to be a pale ale but OG/attenuation left it at about 6.5% so more in IPA territory. My MO for my pale ales where I don't use a 2nd dry hop keg has been to do the dry hop at about 2.5-3 days at the end of fermentation and cap with a spunding valve, in hopes the end of fermentation will help purge the O2.

Anyways, this beer was unreal on hop flavor saturation and aroma. There's a brewery nearby that makes a really good citra session IPA and people thought I had gotten a keg of that although mine had way more aroma. It was my first time using cryo in the dry hop(1 oz of citra cryo) and I'm going to attribute it to that. I've previously used some in whirlpool but didn't get the same intense flavor. Can't wait to experiment more with other varieties of the cryo in the dry hop, if you haven't tried the stuff yet get some.

 

[TBryerton]

Do you have the link to that? Because that is not what was stated by him in his part of Janishs book.

Wondering which one is more recent to know which one he switched to.

The tank log posted on the OH clone thread also indicates they DH post fermentation. I believe the podcast he is referring to is from Feb. - so relatively recent.

 

[popquizkid]

I did a hazy IPA recently that was out of this world. I'd post a picture but the keg got completely cleared at a party this weekend. It was supposed to be a pale ale but OG/attenuation left it at about 6.5% so more in IPA territory. My MO for my pale ales where I don't use a 2nd dry hop keg has been to do the dry hop at about 2.5-3 days at the end of fermentation and cap with a spunding valve, in hopes the end of fermentation will help purge the O2.

Anyways, this beer was unreal on hop flavor saturation and aroma. There's a brewery nearby that makes a really good citra session IPA and people thought I had gotten a keg of that although mine had way more aroma. It was my first time using cryo in the dry hop(1 oz of citra cryo) and I'm going to attribute it to that. I've previously used some in whirlpool but didn't get the same intense flavor. Can't wait to experiment more with other varieties of the cryo in the dry hop, if you haven't tried the stuff yet get some.

Was your dry hop cryo only? Or a mix of cryo and pellets?

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Was your dry hop cryo only? Or a mix of cryo and pellets?

I had some Simcoe and Idaho 7 regular pellets in the whirlpool and dry hop. They may have added some complexity but the flavor was extremely Citra dominant

 

[ttuato]

Still taste great. It was a lactose, passion fruit, Vanilla bean, and Galaxy Dryhopped Sour Double ipa at 7.8% abv. Body is lacking some for sure but if you didn’t have it originally, you wouldn’t think there’s anything off with the body

I am traveling now so I cannot post a pic but I echo these findings. I have two beers on tap at home now - both fermented with A24 (thanks for recommendation @Dgallo), same grain bill w/ malted oats but different hops - both used heavy dryhops (1.75oz/gal) at FG after soft crash, both were super hazy and full bodied. One keg is on the top shelf of my kegerator the other is on the bottom in front of my CO2 tank. The CO2 tank blew around week four for each of these kegs. I had to move the one on bottom a few times to get my CO2 tank changed. Within a week the bottom keg showed noticeable clearing, by two weeks this beer was clear just like shown above while the other that was not moved retains the haze and full body.

 

[aaronm13]

Had a bit of a eureka/oh **** moment yesterday when I was kegging my session IPA. Don't want to side track this thread but it is in relation to my dry hopping process for these neipas.

Since I started kegging I've dry hopped in a keg then close transfer to the serving keg to minimize o2. All the guides I found when starting said to go liquid to liquid post and open the prv on the receiving keg to get the flow going. I've been doing this for a good while now. While kegging yesterday I had a bit of a disaster and the transfer took well over an hour but in this time it finally hit me that with the prv open I'm effectively blowing out all the aroma of me beers.

I've really struggled with poor aroma in my beers and considering the amount of hops I use this should not be an issue. It hit me that I should be connecting gas to gas to on both kegs which would keep the aroma within the kegs. I can't find much information about this online. I've seen a few mentions of doing this with an Ss Brewtec bucket which I use. I did a dry run with water in my bucket and it flowed perfectly into the keg. I don't have a spare keg at the moment to see if this idea will work from keg to keg.

Also am I over complicating things by dry hopping in a keg? Should I had all my hop additions directly into the fermenter? I double dry hop so this would mean opening the fermenter twice. I like the idea of dry hopping in the keg but if I'm blowing out all the aroma it's pretty counter productive and a waste of money.

Can anyone shed some light on these ideas and what process you use for your dry hopping.

 

[jjw5015]

Had a bit of a eureka/oh fudge moment yesterday when I was kegging my session IPA. Don't want to side track this thread but it is in relation to my dry hopping process for these neipas.

Since I started kegging I've dry hopped in a keg then close transfer to the serving keg to minimize o2. All the guides I found when starting said to go liquid to liquid post and open the prv on the receiving keg to get the flow going. I've been doing this for a good while now. While kegging yesterday I had a bit of a disaster and the transfer took well over an hour but in this time it finally hit me that with the prv open I'm effectively blowing out all the aroma of me beers.

I've really struggled with poor aroma in my beers and considering the amount of hops I use this should not be an issue. It hit me that I should be connecting gas to gas to on both kegs which would keep the aroma within the kegs. I can't find much information about this online. I've seen a few mentions of doing this with an Ss Brewtec bucket which I use. I did a dry run with water in my bucket and it flowed perfectly into the keg. I don't have a spare keg at the moment to see if this idea will work from keg to keg.

Also am I over complicating things by dry hopping in a keg? Should I had all my hop additions directly into the fermenter? I double dry hop so this would mean opening the fermenter twice. I like the idea of dry hopping in the keg but if I'm blowing out all the aroma it's pretty counter productive and a waste of money.

Can anyone shed some light on these ideas and what process you use for your dry hopping.

So connect liquid to liquid and gas to gas to make a loop? How are you going to push the liquid then?

 

[Dgallo]

Had a bit of a eureka/oh fudge moment yesterday when I was kegging my session IPA. Don't want to side track this thread but it is in relation to my dry hopping process for these neipas.

Since I started kegging I've dry hopped in a keg then close transfer to the serving keg to minimize o2. All the guides I found when starting said to go liquid to liquid post and open the prv on the receiving keg to get the flow going. I've been doing this for a good while now. While kegging yesterday I had a bit of a disaster and the transfer took well over an hour but in this time it finally hit me that with the prv open I'm effectively blowing out all the aroma of me beers.

I've really struggled with poor aroma in my beers and considering the amount of hops I use this should not be an issue. It hit me that I should be connecting gas to gas to on both kegs which would keep the aroma within the kegs. I can't find much information about this online. I've seen a few mentions of doing this with an Ss Brewtec bucket which I use. I did a dry run with water in my bucket and it flowed perfectly into the keg. I don't have a spare keg at the moment to see if this idea will work from keg to keg.

Also am I over complicating things by dry hopping in a keg? Should I had all my hop additions directly into the fermenter? I double dry hop so this would mean opening the fermenter twice. I like the idea of dry hopping in the keg but if I'm blowing out all the aroma it's pretty counter productive and a waste of money.

Can anyone shed some light on these ideas and what process you use for your dry hopping.

I’m thinking you made a typo because co2 to co2 would not transfer and if it did transfer you would still need to open the pressure relief valve or you wouldn’t be able to rack to your serving keg anyway.

Aroma issues could be a few issues, serving temperature too cold locking up the compounds, too low of a carb level so the aroma isn’t bursting from the glass, oxidation, beer needs to condition further , and/oxidation. It could also be dryhop quantity and quality. So it’s tough to say. That being said, racking a non carbonated beer to a serving keg with the pressure relief valve open will not be the cause of that. Every beer that ever makes its way to a can, or keg must have this happen.

 

[aaronm13]

How are you going to get the liquid out of the keg by connecting to both gas posts?

If both kegs have say 10 psi of pressure with
equilibrium, pull the prv valve initially to get the flow going then attach the gas to gas hose. Would this be enough to keep the flow going or would you need a splitter on the full keg so you could attach the co2 feed to keep pressure going. As I said I don't have a spare keg to try this out

 

[aaronm13]

I’m thinking you made a typo because co2 to co2 would not transfer and if it did transfer you would still need to open the pressure relief valve or you wouldn’t be able to rack to your serving keg anyway

Ok so. I got the idea wrong. So you just open the prv on your keg when doing a transfer?

 

[Loud Brewing]

Forget keg to keg transfers, its like secondary, completely unneeded imo. Focus on good oxy free etiquette when purging the keg using a FULL keg of star san, push it all out and purge then do your closed transfer.I have done transfers with minimal pulling of the prv, it just depends on how much psi your fermenter can handle.

Im not a big fan of keg hops, I dont like the beer sitting on the hops for the life of the keg. If you really want aroma to pop, make sure you have good fresh hops and dryhop after you drop your yeast. Do a soft cold crash, allow to return to room temp and then dryhop the hell out of it. That way your aroma doenst gas off during fermentation and the yeast doesnt strip the oils.

 

[Genuine]

I think having the PRV open is more so to allow the liquid transfer to happen, otherwise you'll have a hard time with all that CO2 not being displaced by the beer. And, if you do Gas to Gas post, you won't be able to transfer any beer since the gas post is so short.

 

[Dgallo]

Ok so. I got the idea wrong. So you just open the prv on your keg when doing a transfer?

Yes. I updated my last post to you aswell

 

[Loud Brewing]

Ok so. I got the idea wrong. So you just open the prv on your keg when doing a transfer?

Recently I have been using a spunding valve during transfers. This will help minimize any 02 that might want to sneak back in the prv by keeping a set psi in the keg, as well as allowing you to walk away

 

[aaronm13]

Forget keg to keg transfers, its like secondary, completely unneeded imo. Focus on good oxy free etiquette when purging the keg using a FULL keg of star san, push it all out and purge then do your closed transfer.I have done transfers with minimal pulling of the prv, it just depends on how much psi your fermenter can handle.

Im not a big fan of keg hops, I dont like the beer sitting on the hops for the life of the keg. If you really want aroma to pop, make sure you have good fresh hops and dryhop after you drop your yeast. Do a soft cold crash, allow to return to room temp and then dryhop the hell out of it. That way your aroma doenst gas off during fermentation and the yeast doesnt strip the oils.

Thanks for that. So do you so all your hopping in the fermenter? I leaning towards this myself for my next attempt as I know I'm blowing out all my hop aroma. I'm just going through process of elimination and this just seemed so obvious to me yesterday. If I can get away with double dry hopping in the fermenter it will reduce some steps for me. My SS Brewtec bucket can take a couple of psi so should be enough.

 

[aaronm13]

I’m thinking you made a typo because co2 to co2 would not transfer and if it did transfer you would still need to open the pressure relief valve or you wouldn’t be able to rack to your serving keg anyway.

Aroma issues could be a few issues, serving temperature too cold locking up the compounds, too low of a carb level so the aroma isn’t bursting from the glass, oxidation, beer needs to condition further , and/oxidation. It could also be dryhop quantity and quality. So it’s tough to say. That being said, racking a non carbonated beer to a serving keg with the pressure relief valve open will not be the cause of that. Every beer that ever makes its way to a can, or keg must have this happen.

Thanks Dgallo. I've been working my way through those points you list for the last while. Poor hops was definitely an issue for me before but I've started getting hops from Yakima Valley and they're so much better that the rubbish I can buy here.

 

[Loud Brewing]

Thanks for that. So do you so all your hopping in the fermenter? I leaning towards this myself for my next attempt as I know I'm blowing out all my hop aroma. I'm just going through process of elimination and this just seemed so obvious to me yesterday. If I can get away with double dry hopping in the fermenter it will reduce some steps for me. My SS Brewtec bucket can take a couple of psi so should be enough.

For my neipas I typically do both a bio transformation hop (during active ferm, day 2-3) and a post ferm dryhop. But lately I have been combining the dosages and just doing the post ferm dryhop and have noticed an increase in both flavor and aroma. Just be sure to avoid introducing any oxygen since you will have already completed fermentation. This is one reason why I really like the fermzilla, oxy free dryhopping.

 

[Dryyourbeers]

Do you have the link to that? Because that is not what was stated by him in his part of Janishs book.

Wondering which one is more recent to know which one he switched to.

very true - i checked the Janish book before I replied actually because I initially thought that’s where I’d heard that. From rechecking the book Sam/OH doesn’t give any exact hopping timings in it; does he? Certainly not in the summary given by him in the Other Half section in the back of the book. Unless he (Sam) specifies precise hopping detail in the main bulk of the book and I’ve forgotten? Although I’m obsessed with their beers so expect that would be the bit I’d hone in on!

Anyways. Here’s the link. Gets to the hopping detail from approx 18mins from memory.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/5peKLOJzqcBjsg91Ttuxd1?si=M5KJRp7cRJ-_5k-5_2kmxg

 

[cheesebach]

If both kegs have say 10 psi of pressure with
equilibrium, pull the prv valve initially to get the flow going then attach the gas to gas hose. Would this be enough to keep the flow going or would you need a splitter on the full keg so you could attach the co2 feed to keep pressure going. As I said I don't have a spare keg to try this out

No need for the splitter or to apply CO2 to keep the transfer going after you get it going. As long as you don't have anything in suspension that could clog the poppets/posts during the transfer, you just need to get the siphon going and then connect gas-to-gas like you said. You do need to make sure that your receiving keg is below your fermenting/secondary keg in order for this to work though, since gravity is what keeps it going.

 

[Loud Brewing]

No need for the splitter or to apply CO2 to keep the transfer going after you get it going. As long as you don't have anything in suspension that could clog the poppets/posts during the transfer, you just need to get the siphon going and then connect gas-to-gas like you said. You do need to make sure that your receiving keg is below your fermenting/secondary keg in order for this to work though, since gravity is what keeps it going.

I think what he was trying to say is if he does NOT pull the prv. You will definitely need to pressurize the fermenter if you dont want to pull prv or you can run a spunding valve at a slightly lower psi than the fermenter. This has worked great for me.

 

[Dgallo]

very true - i checked the Janish book before I replied actually because I initially thought that’s where I’d heard that. From rechecking the book Sam/OH doesn’t give any exact hopping timings in it; does he? Certainly not in the summary given by him in the Other Half section in the back of the book. Unless he (Sam) specifies precise hopping detail in the main bulk of the book and I’ve forgotten? Although I’m obsessed with their beers so expect that would be the bit I’d hone in on!

Anyways. Here’s the link. Gets to the hopping detail from approx 18mins from memory.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/5peKLOJzqcBjsg91Ttuxd1?si=M5KJRp7cRJ-_5k-5_2kmxg

Thanks brother. Yeah he only talks about dryhoping, I find it typical that if a dryhop is done during fermentation for bio reason, most brewers will state it. That why I was interested in your post because he never mentioned fermentation dryhoping in Janish’s book, which is a topic Janish has hit on previously. So I just figure it would be mentioned there if it was there preference.

This is on topic but at the same off topic but a interesting story none the less. 3 years ago for our honey moon my wife and I went out to San Fran and the surrounding areas for 5 days before we went to cabo for the remainder of it. The first I’ve ever heard of biotransfermation dryhoping was on that trip at the famous Russian River brewery. We got extremely lucky and Vinny was actually there that night and let me tell you, he is a true gentleman. I introduced myself and told him we came all the way from new your and specifically made our honeymoon so we could stop and try Pliny and blind pig. He ended up taking us on a tour, comping our drinks and meal, like that wasn’t enough, when I mention I was a brand new homebrewer he goes “I’m going to tell you about something new we’re working on... all I can say is, don’t be afraid that dryhoping during fermentation.” He didn’t know me from Adam, and even though I’ve moved away from doing them, Ive always thought it was so cool he was the one that told me about it.

 

[aaronm13]

For my neipas I typically do both a bio transformation hop (during active ferm, day 2-3) and a post ferm dryhop. But lately I have been combining the dosages and just doing the post ferm dryhop and have noticed an increase in both flavor and aroma. Just be sure to avoid introducing any oxygen since you will have already completed fermentation. This is one reason why I really like the fermzilla, oxy free dryhopping.

I love the look of the Fermzilla and very tempted by it, especially the jar at the bottom for adding hops. Only thing holding me back is it wouldn't fit into my under counter fridge. If I came home with a bigger fridge I'm likely to face a divorce.

 

[aaronm13]

No need for the splitter or to apply CO2 to keep the transfer going after you get it going. As long as you don't have anything in suspension that could clog the poppets/posts during the transfer, you just need to get the siphon going and then connect gas-to-gas like you said. You do need to make sure that your receiving keg is below your fermenting/secondary keg in order for this to work though, since gravity is what keeps it going.

Never thought about having the receiving keg lower. So if I put the full keg on a counter top and the empty keg on the floor the transfer should happen? I'd need to pull the prv at the start to get things flowing but once it starts I could close it then attach the gas posts

 

[Loud Brewing]

Never thought about having the receiving keg lower. So if I put the full keg on a counter top and the empty keg on the floor the transfer should happen? I'd need to pull the prv at the start to get things flowing but once it starts I could close it then attach the gas posts

As you transfer, pressure will be lower in the receiving keg and siphon will occur, but once pressure increases during filling, the receiving keg will reach equilibrium and pressure will need to be increased in the push keg/fermenter in order to keep the flow going.
That is what's nice about using a spunding valve on the recieving keg. You can adjust it to bleed off before reaching equilibrium

 

[Loud Brewing]

Thanks brother. Yeah he only talks about dryhoping, I find it typical that if a dryhop is done during fermentation for bio reason, most brewers will state it. That why I was interested in your post because he never mentioned fermentation dryhoping in Janish’s book, which is a topic Janish has hit on previously. So I just figure it would be mentioned there if it was there preference.

This is on topic but at the same off topic but a interesting story none the less. 3 years ago for our honey moon my wife and I went out to San Fran and the surrounding areas for 5 days before we went to cabo for the remainder of it. The first I’ve ever heard of biotransfermation dryhoping was on that trip at the famous Russian River brewery. We got extremely lucky and Vinny was actually there that night and let me tell you, he is a true gentleman. I introduced myself and told him we came all the way from new your and specifically made our honeymoon so we could stop and try Pliny and blind pig. He ended up taking us on a tour, comping our drinks and meal, like that wasn’t enough, when I mention I was a brand new homebrewer he goes “I’m going to tell you about something new we’re working on... all I can say is, don’t be afraid that dryhoping during fermentation.” He didn’t know me from Adam, and even though I’ve moved away from doing them, Ive always thought it was so cool he was the one that told me about it.

Wow what a great experience bro. I have read several times about him being very forthcoming with his techniques which is pretty darn cool. It seems like Vinny is one of those guys who loves to share information and do things his own way. I recently heard on a podcast that they still introduce hops by hand at the top of each of their fermenters which really surprised me.

 

[Dgallo]

Wow what a great experience bro. I have read several times about him being very forthcoming with his techniques which is pretty darn cool. It seems like Vinny is one of those guys who loves to share information and do things his own way. I recently heard on a podcast that they still introduce hops by hand at the top of each of their fermenters which really surprised me.

Not a Dinner party with legitimate beer enthusiast goes by without us bringing up the story lol

 

[BeerFst]

Never thought about having the receiving keg lower. So if I put the full keg on a counter top and the empty keg on the floor the transfer should happen? I'd need to pull the prv at the start to get things flowing but once it starts I could close it then attach the gas posts

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/pressurized-closed-loop-corny-keg-fermenting.600563/

Read thru this one, it covers quite a bit of what you are independently discovering.

 

[cheesebach]

As you transfer, pressure will be lower in the receiving keg and siphon will occur, but once pressure increases during filling, the receiving keg will reach equilibrium and pressure will need to be increased in the push keg/fermenter in order to keep the flow going.
That is what's nice about using a spunding valve on the recieving keg. You can adjust it to bleed off before reaching equilibrium

That’s not quite correct though, assuming he’s connecting gas-to-gas after the flow has started (and not allowing the pressure in the receiving keg to rise above that in the sending keg. Initially, you do need a lower pressure in the receiving keg to start the flow of beer from one to the other. And the pressure does equalize between the sending/receiving keg, but the siphon is self-sustaining at that point, and it will continue to flow until it empties the sending keg (or clogs). I’ve been using this method for over a year now thanks to the thread that’s mentioned in a comment above mine.

Again, this uses gravity to maintain the siphon, so you need sending keg above the receiving one. The more height difference between them, usually the faster the speed. I have about a 3-foot height differential where I set up mine.

 

[Loud Brewing]

That’s not quite correct though, assuming he’s connecting gas-to-gas after the flow has started (and not allowing the pressure in the receiving keg to rise above that in the sending keg. Initially, you do need a lower pressure in the receiving keg to start the flow of beer from one to the other. And the pressure does equalize between the sending/receiving keg, but the siphon is self-sustaining at that point, and it will continue to flow until it empties the sending keg (or clogs). I’ve been using this method for over a year now thanks to the thread that’s mentioned in a comment above mine.

Again, this uses gravity to maintain the siphon, so you need sending keg above the receiving one. The more height difference between them, usually the faster the speed. I have about a 3-foot height differential where I set up mine.

You are absolutely correct, my mistake. I missed the part about linking the gas to gas line, as that c02 has to go somewhere! This method will save some gas on transfer too which is always a bonus.

 

[aaronm13]

Thanks for all the advice and tips last night guys, really appreciate it. Definitely food for thought anyway on some of my processes. Can't wait to try them out on my next brew.