New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

HomeBrewTalk.com - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Community.

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

secretlevel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2019
Messages
188
Reaction score
100
Location
Chicago, IL
After years of lurking here, I am finally posting after being tormented by my attempts at this recipe. I have brewed this recipe twice now and each time I find that I end up with a beer that is a hop bomb, possibly citra, but not in a good way. It is very green and never really conditions to a proper level even after 2 months of refrigerated bottle conditioning.

My setup/process is fairly simple compared to many here and some steps just won't work for me such as cold crashing or controlled ferm temps as I don't have the room for the equipment. I do BIAB, my "whirlpool" is done with a paddle and hop spider which then goes into a Spiedel fermenter. That stays in my basement which is around 62-64 these days. Dry hopping is done with loose hop pellets at 48 hours after pitching and bottled on day 12. I bottle, not keg but I have had good results with no/low oxidation simply by priming direct to the bottle and leaving no headspace.

Curious I don't think I am confusing vegetal/grassy off flavors with what I am experiencing, but perhaps I am? Or maybe the recipe is over hopped? One thing is for sure, what I brewed has a long way to go before it is even close to the Treehouse IPA's in my beer fridge.
It sounds like you have a good process despite the lack of equipment. The original recipe in this thread is slightly outdated, most of the folks in this thread throw their hops in during the last couple of points or post-fermentation. This yields some seriously good results. I'd try that next time, maybe 1.5-2oz/gal.

Hopping mid-fermentation can lead to some grassy flavors and some serious hop burn.

Citra should be fine if it's from YVH/Yakima Chief. I'd also try to warm up your fermenter to 68-72F after the initial 24 hours, that should help your yeast.
 

AugustWest

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2021
Messages
12
Reaction score
11
It sounds like you have a good process despite the lack of equipment. The original recipe in this thread is slightly outdated, most of the folks in this thread throw their hops in during the last couple of points or post-fermentation. This yields some seriously good results. I'd try that next time, maybe 1.5-2oz/gal.

Hopping mid-fermentation can lead to some grassy flavors and some serious hop burn.

Citra should be fine if it's from YVH/Yakima Chief. I'd also try to warm up your fermenter to 68-72F after the initial 24 hours, that should help your yeast.
Thank you! I recently read the Janish article that someone sent a link for about dry hopping contact time being nearly complete in like 24 hours or so and it made me say, "hmmmmm".

As for my ferm temps, I forgot to mention that after the yeast took off I actually did bring the fermenter upstairs because it was getting too close to the low limits of the 1318 yeast. The downside is my house is warmer in the day than the evening so there are regular fluctuations that have the beer rise and fall from as the thermostat cycles over a 24 hour period. Does that stress the yeast too much or contribute to esters? Note the graph from my Tilt hydrometer. And yes, I missed the OG target by a long shot on this batch so it is a session IPA. User error!
 

Attachments

secretlevel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2019
Messages
188
Reaction score
100
Location
Chicago, IL
Thank you! I recently read the Janish article that someone sent a link for about dry hopping contact time being nearly complete in like 24 hours or so and it made me say, "hmmmmm".

As for my ferm temps, I forgot to mention that after the yeast took off I actually did bring the fermenter upstairs because it was getting too close to the low limits of the 1318 yeast. The downside is my house is warmer in the day than the evening so there are regular fluctuations that have the beer rise and fall from as the thermostat cycles over a 24 hour period. Does that stress the yeast too much or contribute to esters? Note the graph from my Tilt hydrometer. And yes, I missed the OG target by a long shot on this batch so it is a session IPA. User error!
If it tastes ok then you're good, 2 degree fluctuation isn't terrible. Some esters are fine, it's to style. Maybe find a more stable area or insulate the fermenter with some towels or a sleeping bag once it's upstairs.
 

TheToE

Active Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2013
Messages
30
Reaction score
4
@BrewingAround @Beerdrinker85
Here’s my results with some strata and Bru-1

50% Pilsner
20% GP
25% malted oats
5% malted wheat

Hotside: Strata, Bru-1, mosaic

DH: Strata, Citra, Strata, Bru-1

All hops used a full 2oz package, 14oz total.

Verdant IPA at 70. 1.058 - 1.011

Aroma is punchy sweet mango, pineapple and a little cream. Taste is big time pineapple, citrus and just a touch grassy.

My buddy couldn’t believe there wasn’t pineapple juice added to the keg. I really love it.

This was 8oz of dry hop all in primary which is a 10 gallon keg with a Janish filter and the dip tube cut to leave 3L of dead space, which I find perfect for a 8-10oz dry hop. I’ve never had a clog and I’ve even transferred out of this without a good cold crash. @HopsAreGood

Edit : hop details in screenshot
That looks amazing. Thank you for sharing man! Going to try it today! After my last disaster I'm looking forward to filling some kegs! Question for you guys: I'm doing a 10g batch. How much whirlpool hops would you recommend? I'm thinking 8oz WP and 10oz for DH'ing. Thoughts?
 
Last edited:

secretlevel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2019
Messages
188
Reaction score
100
Location
Chicago, IL
That looks amazing. Thank you for sharing man! Going to try it today! After my last disaster I'm looking forward to filling some kegs! Question for you guys: I'm doing a 10g batch. How much whirlpool hops would you recommend? I'm thinking 8oz WP and 10oz for DH'ing. Thoughts?
I'd go 6oz/12oz, or even 16oz on the dry hop, depending on OG. I haven't noticed too much impact from increased hopping in WP.
 

HopsAreGood

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2019
Messages
513
Reaction score
791
Location
New Jersey
I'd go 6oz/12oz, or even 16oz on the dry hop, depending on OG. I haven't noticed too much impact from increased hopping in WP.
Agreed. The last 2 beers I’ve done had a few ounces at 5 minutes left in the boil, zero WP additions, and then a hefty dry hop. I have to say I can’t even tell there was no WP addition. Plus, it makes brew day faster not having to stop the chilling process. Couple ounces at 5, flame off, immediately chill all the way down. Both beers have turned out very good.

One of them had 2 oz Mosaic Lupomax at 5, then 8 oz of enigma in the DH. I let the beer ferment out, then soft crashed to 60 for about a day. Transferred into the fermentation purged DH keg ( with Janish filter on the diptube) with the enigma already in there. The beer went in at 60 and I immediately put it into my chest freezer which is kept at 46. A few hours later I took the keg out and rolled it gently back and forth on the floor. I also turned it upside down a few times trying to get max contact with the loose hops. Did this for a total of about 5-10 minutes. I then put it right back into the chest freezer and transferred it into my liquid purged serving keg exactly 48 hours after transferring it.

I’m not sure if it is process related, the quality of the enigma (YVH 2019) or a combination of both, but the aroma and flavor is incredible. This is the first time I’ve used Enigma and I love it. I’ve had commercial beers with it but none of them even come close to this.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
424
Reaction score
393
Location
duncannon
I brewed up a batch this weekend. did a 60, 10, and wp addition. when i do my wp addition i dont do anything to lower the temp, just let it drop naturally. so typically i let it wp for about 30 minutes while im getting my fermenter put together and sanitized. i do 15gal batches so at this point in time the temp is at about 180 then i run it through my counterflow chiller and into the fermenter. i wouldnt mind moving some of that wp addition to the dry hop so maybe ill give it a go on my next batch and see what i like better.
 

aaronm13

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2017
Messages
240
Reaction score
113
Location
Dublin, Ireland
Agreed. The last 2 beers I’ve done had a few ounces at 5 minutes left in the boil, zero WP additions, and then a hefty dry hop. I have to say I can’t even tell there was no WP addition. Plus, it makes brew day faster not having to stop the chilling process. Couple ounces at 5, flame off, immediately chill all the way down. Both beers have turned out very good.

One of them had 2 oz Mosaic Lupomax at 5, then 8 oz of enigma in the DH. I let the beer ferment out, then soft crashed to 60 for about a day. Transferred into the fermentation purged DH keg ( with Janish filter on the diptube) with the enigma already in there. The beer went in at 60 and I immediately put it into my chest freezer which is kept at 46. A few hours later I took the keg out and rolled it gently back and forth on the floor. I also turned it upside down a few times trying to get max contact with the loose hops. Did this for a total of about 5-10 minutes. I then put it right back into the chest freezer and transferred it into my liquid purged serving keg exactly 48 hours after transferring it.

I’m not sure if it is process related, the quality of the enigma (YVH 2019) or a combination of both, but the aroma and flavor is incredible. This is the first time I’ve used Enigma and I love it. I’ve had commercial beers with it but none of them even come close to this.
Started adding a few oz in the last few minutes of the boil too and found it's really helped my beers. Haven't abandoned the whirlpool yet but might cut down on it for my next brew.

I have that filter too but haven't been hugely impressed with it but I think I need to cut more off the dip tube. I probably only cut around half an inch off it when in reality there's a few inches of hop matter at the bottom of the dry hop keg. Reducing my hop rates should help with this too.

So to confirm your dry hop process. You keep the beer on the hops for 48 hours before transfer and the temperature is 46 degrees in your fridge for the duration? Do you add much psi to your dry hopping keg?
 

HopsAreGood

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2019
Messages
513
Reaction score
791
Location
New Jersey
Started adding a few oz in the last few minutes of the boil too and found it's really helped my beers. Haven't abandoned the whirlpool yet but might cut down on it for my next brew.

I have that filter too but haven't been hugely impressed with it but I think I need to cut more off the dip tube. I probably only cut around half an inch off it when in reality there's a few inches of hop matter at the bottom of the dry hop keg. Reducing my hop rates should help with this too.

So to confirm your dry hop process. You keep the beer on the hops for 48 hours before transfer and the temperature is 46 degrees in your fridge for the duration? Do you add much psi to your dry hopping keg?
I’m always messing around with dry hop techniques but I really like this one. Yes, for this one there was a total of 48 hours contact with the hops before I jumped it into the serving keg. After I transferred it from the fermenter, at 60 degrees, into the DryHop keg, I purged it three times to 20 psi. I then added 10 psi and left it that way for the duration of the 48 hours. The keg probably got down to 46° within 24 hours, so the final 24 hours it was basically sitting still in the chest freezer at 46.

When I took the keg out to roll it and turn it upside down a few times, it was probably somewhere around 52 to 55 but I can’t be exactly sure. It was a few hours after sticking it the chest freezer, And from previous experience I know it goes down about 2 to 3 degrees per hour.

Yes. The chest freezer stays at 46 the whole time because that is the serving temp of my other kegs. The DH keg goes in and stays in the chest freezer for the whole 48 hours, except for the 5-10 minutes that I take it out to agitate.
 

HopsAreGood

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2019
Messages
513
Reaction score
791
Location
New Jersey
Sounds like a great method. Cold, short, and well mixed. Have you tried this but serve it from the dry hop keg? I might try that next.
I have not served from the dry hop keg. I’ve left bagged and suspended hops in the serving keg before but I’d be hesitant to serve from the DH keg with all the loose hops. If you try it out let us know how it goes.
 

aaronm13

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2017
Messages
240
Reaction score
113
Location
Dublin, Ireland
I’m always messing around with dry hop techniques but I really like this one. Yes, for this one there was a total of 48 hours contact with the hops before I jumped it into the serving keg. After I transferred it from the fermenter, at 60 degrees, into the DryHop keg, I purged it three times to 20 psi. I then added 10 psi and left it that way for the duration of the 48 hours. The keg probably got down to 46° within 24 hours, so the final 24 hours it was basically sitting still in the chest freezer at 46.

When I took the keg out to roll it and turn it upside down a few times, it was probably somewhere around 52 to 55 but I can’t be exactly sure. It was a few hours after sticking it the chest freezer, And from previous experience I know it goes down about 2 to 3 degrees per hour.

Yes. The chest freezer stays at 46 the whole time because that is the serving temp of my other kegs. The DH keg goes in and stays in the chest freezer for the whole 48 hours, except for the 5-10 minutes that I take it out to agitate.
Nice process, I'd say you get little to know hop burn even from day 1. Do you find you get good extraction with the colder temps and shorter contact time?
 

HopsAreGood

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2019
Messages
513
Reaction score
791
Location
New Jersey
Nice process, I'd say you get little to know hop burn even from day 1. Do you find you get good extraction with the colder temps and shorter contact time?
Zero hop burn and it’s ready to drink fast. No waiting for it to mellow out. The colder temps and shorter contact time don’t seem to have any negative effect on extraction whatsoever. Perhaps there might be slightly less without the 5-10 minutes of agitation?

I’m pretty sure this has been shared and discussed here, but I’ll reshare it anyway. Some very interesting stuff in here:

 

aaronm13

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2017
Messages
240
Reaction score
113
Location
Dublin, Ireland
Zero hop burn and it’s ready to drink fast. No waiting for it to mellow out. The colder temps and shorter contact time don’t seem to have any negative effect on extraction whatsoever. Perhaps there might be slightly less without the 5-10 minutes of agitation?

I’m pretty sure this has been shared and discussed here, but I’ll reshare it anyway. Some very interesting stuff in here:

Awesome. Will be trying this for sure on my next brew. If I ever get my Yakima order. The Irish post service has ground to a halt lately.
 
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
424
Reaction score
393
Location
duncannon
i am thinking for this dry hop i want to pick up some vic secret so not sure what to pair it with. i have plenty of mosaic on hand and citra as well. any suggestions which to go with and what ratio to use? i have not personally brewed with vic secret.
 

Dgallo

If you ain’t first, you’re last Ricky Bobby
Joined
Jan 15, 2017
Messages
4,561
Reaction score
7,814
Location
Albany
I will quickly chime in regarding boil/whirlpool importance. I recently kegged a NZ Pilsner that used only 3.75 oz in total;
- 0.4 oz at 60
-0.8 oz at 10
-0.8 oz at 5
-1.0 oz whirlpool at 170 for 30
-0.75oz dryhop

this beer is hugely aromatic and full of flavor. Granted it’s a lager and cleanly fermented so it can showcase hops better but I’m stunned with how bold the beer is. Those who’ve tried it so far genuinely think I’m lying when I tell them how little hops are in the beer, especially when I mention the measly 0.75 oz dryhop. My biggest take away from this beer is that hotside hops can have a huge impact.

Ive entered it in a competition, so I’ll what the certificated judges pick up on the hops. I will post the score sheets on here regardless.

picture Is for those who haven’t seen a clear beer in a while lol
23F0F7C3-8162-496F-A91B-D7D4D29AFDE4.jpeg
 
Last edited:

HopsAreGood

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2019
Messages
513
Reaction score
791
Location
New Jersey
i am thinking for this dry hop i want to pick up some vic secret so not sure what to pair it with. i have plenty of mosaic on hand and citra as well. any suggestions which to go with and what ratio to use? i have not personally brewed with vic secret.
I love Vic Secret but be warned it is extremely high in polyphenol content. If you are going to dry hop shorter and colder than usual, it will be very telling because Vic Secret can come off pretty rough...similar to Galaxy. In terms of ratios it just depends on how much of each hop you want to showcase. I’ve been doing a lot of single hop dry hops lately because it really lets me get to know that hop. Sometimes when I pair up different hops I get more of a muddy sort of generic hop character. Not bad, but just different. But to answer your question I might do 50/50 Citra/VS.
 
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
424
Reaction score
393
Location
duncannon
my plan is to crash to 50 and hold that temp for the dry hop for 2days then crash to 38 for a day or so and keg at that point. i have done some single dry hops lately as well for the same reason but didnt want to go all VS. ill go 50/50 as mentioned and see how it goes. thanks
 

couchsending

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
2,791
Reaction score
1,752
Nectaron > Galaxy

Or is what Galaxy was 5 years ago.

It is absolute crazy how potent this hop is without being harsh or astringent or dirty. Let’s hope NZ Hops can keep the quality high.

To me the closest profile is Enigma, but the best Enigma you’ve ever had. No dankness or weird ginger/horseradish/anise character thats so prevalent in AU hops. Just straight fruit character that’s really really hard to describe. I personally don’t get a lot of the descriptors NZ hops uses for Nectaron. Others might.
 

HopsAreGood

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2019
Messages
513
Reaction score
791
Location
New Jersey
Nectaron > Galaxy

Or is what Galaxy was 5 years ago.

It is absolute crazy how potent this hop is without being harsh or astringent or dirty. Let’s hope NZ Hops can keep the quality high.

To me the closest profile is Enigma, but the best Enigma you’ve ever had. No dankness or weird ginger/horseradish/anise character thats so prevalent in AU hops. Just straight fruit character that’s really really hard to describe. I personally don’t get a lot of the descriptors NZ hops uses for Nectaron. Others might.
It’s funny you say this as I’m currently enjoying a beer I made with an 8 oz. dry hop of 2019 YVH enigma and it’s incredible. First time ever using enigma and it’s fantastic. I have 6 ounces of Nectaron and will be brewing this Thursday and can’t wait to try it out. I’m trying to figure out exactly how I’m going to use it. I have a bunch of other hops on hand and am thinking maybe 6 oz. nectaron and 4 oz. Nelson in the dry hop. We’ll see.
 

couchsending

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
2,791
Reaction score
1,752
It’s funny you say this as I’m currently enjoying a beer I made with an 8 oz. dry hop of 2019 YVH enigma and it’s incredible. First time ever using enigma and it’s fantastic. I have 6 ounces of Nectaron and will be brewing this Thursday and can’t wait to try it out. I’m trying to figure out exactly how I’m going to use it. I have a bunch of other hops on hand and am thinking maybe 6 oz. nectaron and 4 oz. Nelson in the dry hop. We’ll see.
The 2019 Enigma I’ve used from YVH is fire. I really believe the Aussie hops get better with age.

I started using Nectaron about 18 months ago when it was still 4337. First two times I used it as a smaller percentage of blends with other NZ hops and there was always this character that stood out that I wasnt familiar with. Even as a much smaller percentage of the blend it stood out. Even paired with good Citra at only 20% of the total DH load it would trample all over Citra.

It’s really really potent but also doesn’t seem to have nearly the polyphenol content that most potent Southern Hemisphere hop have. Almost every Nectaron heavy beer I’ve made has been much much clearer than the same beer with similar quantities of Nelson, Riwaka, Galaxy, Vic, Enigma, or even Citra. But with almost more intensity.
 

Noob_Brewer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
780
Reaction score
965
Nectaron > Galaxy

Or is what Galaxy was 5 years ago.

It is absolute crazy how potent this hop is without being harsh or astringent or dirty. Let’s hope NZ Hops can keep the quality high.

To me the closest profile is Enigma, but the best Enigma you’ve ever had. No dankness or weird ginger/horseradish/anise character thats so prevalent in AU hops. Just straight fruit character that’s really really hard to describe. I personally don’t get a lot of the descriptors NZ hops uses for Nectaron. Others might.
I often have a hard time defining the word "potent" myself and Im sure others think of potency a little differently. For me, when I think "potent" Im thinking of hops that have an edge along with a strong intensity in flavor/aroma. Galaxy has an intense passionfruit flavor but with an 'edge" that can come across as harsh (but I think this depends on the lot) and needs time to condition sometimes. Nelson is strong flavor of green fruit/white wine but with the NZ diesel/spicy "edge". However, Nectaron just doesn't have this "edge". Rather its just a fantastic tropical(passionfruit) and peach bomb for me without that strong NZ diesel. I definitely get some diesel but its very tame and plays background to the fruit bomb that it is. So I think of Nectaron is an intense and more refined (not real sharp edge to it at all) high quality hop compared to the likes of these others I mentioned. In fact, if I didn't know it was from NZ where I think of the traditional NZ diesel component like Nelson has, I probably wouldn't even has been able to guess its regional origin. Its great! The flavor profile really pops and is outstanding overall. I mentioned this before, but one of my favorite hop combos do date has been moutere/nectaron. It was totally a tropical/peach bomb. Went heavier on moutere on hot side, and hammered the nectaron in DH. Love it.

Haven't tried Enigma in a HB before but now you got me wanting to buy some lol.

Cheers!
 
Last edited:

Noob_Brewer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
780
Reaction score
965
It’s really really potent but also doesn’t seem to have nearly the polyphenol content that most potent Southern Hemisphere hop have. Almost every Nectaron heavy beer I’ve made has been much much clearer than the same beer with similar quantities of Nelson, Riwaka, Galaxy, Vic, Enigma, or even Citra. But with almost more intensity.
I agree with this 100%. I still have my moutere/nectaron on tap (I just don't want it to end! lol) and also have a Riwaka/Nelson/Galaxy on tap. Ive been wondering why the moutere/nectaron, while still hazy, is still clearer than the Riwaka/Nelson/Galaxy which is more hazy, but not murky, and almost closer to opaque despite the same grain bills and yeast (A24 dry hop). Ive definitely noticed this effect from any beer I use galaxy in. So I think you hit the nail on the head with polyphenol content.
 

R.A.I.D

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
81
Reaction score
45
My LHBS recommends a solution of water and hydrogen peroxide for disinfection. Hydrogen peroxide decomposes into water and oxygen gas.
Would you be concerned about using it for disinfection of your dry hop and serving kegs for NEIPAs given the extreme sensibility for oxygen?
 
Last edited:

couchsending

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
2,791
Reaction score
1,752
Also HBC586 > Sabro

By 100000%. Might even be better than Strata, although they’re very different. Another incredibly strong and unique hop that’s not really like anything else out there. Has the intense tropical notes of Sabro but none of the wood/dill/mint etc.

highly recommend
 

HopsAreGood

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2019
Messages
513
Reaction score
791
Location
New Jersey
Also HBC586 > Sabro

By 100000%. Might even be better than Strata, although they’re very different. Another incredibly strong and unique hop that’s not really like anything else out there. Has the intense tropical notes of Sabro but none of the wood/dill/mint etc.

highly recommend
Agreed. Had this beer a few weeks ago and it was awesome. It’s 586 and Citra...not sure what ratios but it was extremely unique yet very familiar...if that makes sense. Very bright, very potent, and extremely delicious.

Luster Conclave Brewing on Untappd
Luster - Conclave Brewing - Untappd

Perhaps a 586/Nectaron beer should be in the works.
 

beervoid

Hophead & Pellet Rubber
Joined
Jan 4, 2017
Messages
1,056
Reaction score
235
Location
Europe
Also HBC586 > Sabro

By 100000%. Might even be better than Strata, although they’re very different. Another incredibly strong and unique hop that’s not really like anything else out there. Has the intense tropical notes of Sabro but none of the wood/dill/mint etc.

highly recommend
That sounds promising, if they found a way to get that woody coconut character out, I cant stand that.
 

skleice

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Messages
329
Reaction score
155
I will quickly chime in regarding boil/whirlpool importance. I recently kegged a NZ Pilsner that used only 3.75 oz in total;
- 0.4 oz at 60
-0.8 oz at 10
-0.8 oz at 5
-1.0 oz whirlpool at 170 for 30
-0.75oz dryhop

this beer is hugely aromatic and full of flavor. Granted it’s a lager and cleanly fermented so it can showcase hops better but I’m stunned with how bold the beer is. Those who’ve tried it so far genuinely think I’m lying when I tell them how little hops are in the beer, especially when I mention the measly 0.75 oz dryhop. My biggest take away from this beer is that hotside hops can have a huge impact.

Ive entered it in a competition, so I’ll what the certificated judges pick up on the hops. I will post the score sheets on here regardless.

picture Is for those who haven’t seen a clear beer in a while lol
View attachment 719665
You've motivated me to try one of these. What type of water profile did you go with?
 

Dgallo

If you ain’t first, you’re last Ricky Bobby
Joined
Jan 15, 2017
Messages
4,561
Reaction score
7,814
Location
Albany
You've motivated me to try one of these. What type of water profile did you go with?
I build from my tap but here was what it adjusted to.

Ca - 88
Mg - 9
Cl - 100
Na - 35
So4 - 82

@hopfenstopfen though the styles are very similar, WC pils are drier and crisper than NZ. They also tend to be higher in ibus as for the NZ pils, the ibu cut off is around 40. Here are the big take always from the style guidelines according to the BJCP

Flavor
Medium to high hop bitterness, cleanly bitter not harsh, most prominent in the balance and lasting into the aftertaste. Medium to high hop flavor with similar characteristics as the aroma (tropical, citrus, gooseberry, melon, grass). Medium to medium-low malt flavor, grainy-sweet, bready, or crackery. Clean fermentation profile (fermentation esters are a fault). Dry to off-dry with a clean, smooth finish and bitter but not harsh aftertaste. The malt may suggest an impression of sweetness but the beer should not be literally sweet. The finish may be dry but not seem crisp or biting. The balance should always be bitter, but the malt flavor must be noticeable.

Overall Impression
A pale, dry, golden-colored, cleanly-fermented beer showcasing the characteristic tropical, citrusy, fruity, grassy New Zealand-type hops. Medium body, soft mouthfeel, and smooth palate and finish, with a neutral to bready malt base provide the support for this very drinkable, refreshing, hop-forward beer

These are the reason I built the water profile this way.
 

couchsending

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
2,791
Reaction score
1,752
I will quickly chime in regarding boil/whirlpool importance. I recently kegged a NZ Pilsner that used only 3.75 oz in total;
- 0.4 oz at 60
-0.8 oz at 10
-0.8 oz at 5
-1.0 oz whirlpool at 170 for 30
-0.75oz dryhop

this beer is hugely aromatic and full of flavor. Granted it’s a lager and cleanly fermented so it can showcase hops better but I’m stunned with how bold the beer is. Those who’ve tried it so far genuinely think I’m lying when I tell them how little hops are in the beer, especially when I mention the measly 0.75 oz dryhop. My biggest take away from this beer is that hotside hops can have a huge impact.

Ive entered it in a competition, so I’ll what the certificated judges pick up on the hops. I will post the score sheets on here regardless.

picture Is for those who haven’t seen a clear beer in a while lol
View attachment 719665
You wonder how much of it has to do with the much colder and slower fermentation and preserving hop aromatics? Or just the properties of lager yeast and specific hop compounds.

I’ll recommend it again but if you haven’t tried making a lager with any of the American Noble versions of Citra, Cascade, Mosaic, Simcoe is highly recommend it. Especially the cascade. It is mind blowing to be how much hop aroma comes through with the last addition only being 1-2oz at 10 minutes left in the boil.
 

beervoid

Hophead & Pellet Rubber
Joined
Jan 4, 2017
Messages
1,056
Reaction score
235
Location
Europe

Dgallo

If you ain’t first, you’re last Ricky Bobby
Joined
Jan 15, 2017
Messages
4,561
Reaction score
7,814
Location
Albany
1 - higher dry hopping rate impact is mostly seen with longer aging
2 - with higher dryhopping rates, process becomes much more important
3 - there is a limit but its very process (time vs temperature) and pallet dependent
I was originally hoping the ddh process would actually contain the same amount of hops as the single but split into two separate additions. That’s the component of ddh I’m most interested in. I anecdotally believe I perceive a brighter and more forward hop character when I split them between 2 additions but again my bias may be perceiving that
 
Last edited:

aaronm13

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2017
Messages
240
Reaction score
113
Location
Dublin, Ireland
I was originally hoping the ddh process would actually contain the same amount of hops as the single but split into two separate additions. That’s the component of ddh I’m most interested in. I anecdotally believe I perceive a brighter and more forward hop character when I split them between 2 additions but again my bias may be perceiving that
Think that's how it should have been conducted myself. Beer A, 2 additions of 4g/L each and beer B, 2 additions of 8g/L each.

My Yakima order finally arrived in Ireland today so will hopefully get them tomorrow or Monday then I can brew my Citra and Nelson DIPA. Going with just under 10oz double dry hop.
 

Dgallo

If you ain’t first, you’re last Ricky Bobby
Joined
Jan 15, 2017
Messages
4,561
Reaction score
7,814
Location
Albany
Think that's how it should have been conducted myself. Beer A, 2 additions of 4g/L each and beer B, 2 additions of 8g/L each.
I’m actually getting more at the fact that A 1 addition or 8g/l and B have 2 additions of 4g/l. That way they use an equivalent amount of hops and you would be able to see what the impact of two separate dryhops additions verses one.

The study as is only shows if more hops has a bigger impact
 

Dgallo

If you ain’t first, you’re last Ricky Bobby
Joined
Jan 15, 2017
Messages
4,561
Reaction score
7,814
Location
Albany
My Yakima order finally arrived in Ireland today so will hopefully get them tomorrow or Monday then I can brew my Citra and Nelson DIPA. Going with just under 10oz double dry hop.
Nelson and Citra work great together
 
Top