New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Dgallo]

@ttuato and others that saw a post I made this past summer about a keg dropping completely clear. My first theory was using malted wheat verse my traditional bill. Then I started to think it was due to moving my keg in the car to the bev center to can, theory was that the proteins that flocced got resuspended and attracted more proteins to them and dropped more out. This theory seemed like a stretch but this weekend I moved a keg of a sour double ipa and just took my first pour from it since then and it is absolutely clear. Looks like resuspending trub can cause a beer to drop clear.

11-27-19

12/05/19

 

[moreb33rplz]

I'm sure this has been discussed here before, but is there a consensus on what makes these beers hazy?

My personal experience has been that it is simply the a mount of hops, especially dry hops. My beers are almost all clear except my IPA. Regardless of whether oats or wheat (in any form) are used, regardless of yeast strain and including strains like chico, my IPA are always hazy if I hop the hell out of them.

 

[Dgallo]

I'm sure this has been discussed here before, but is there a consensus on what makes these beers hazy?

My personal experience has been that it is simply the a mount of hops, especially dry hops. My beers are almost all clear except my IPA. Regardless of whether oats or wheat (in any form) are used, regardless of yeast strain and including strains like chico, my IPA are always hazy if I hop the hell out of them.

Proteins and polyphenols will cause the majority of the haze in a beer. Especially when they are bound together from fermentation

 

[Noob_Brewer]

@ttuato and others that saw a post I made this past summer about a keg dropping completely clear. My first theory was using malted wheat verse my traditional bill. Then I started to think it was due to moving my keg in the car to the bev center to can, theory was that the proteins that flocced got resuspended and attracted more proteins to them and dropped more out. This theory seemed like a stretch but this weekend I moved a keg of a sour double ipa and just took my first pour from it since then and it is absolutely clear. Looks like resuspending trub can cause a beer to drop clear.

11-27-19
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12/05/19
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Dang - second beer almost looks like a budweiser lol. How does it taste now that its dropped clear?

 

[moreb33rplz]

Proteins and polyphenols will cause the majority of the haze in a beer. Especially when they are bound together from fermentation

Then my next question is where do the proteins and polyphenols come from?

 

[aaronm13]

Is the biotransformation hops really not key to getting the haze? Really want to skip this step in my next brew but worried I'll end up with a clearer beer.

 

[moreb33rplz]

Is the biotransformation hops really not key to getting the haze? Really want to skip this step in my next brew but worried I'll end up with a clearer beer.

I only dryhop after fermentation is done and my beers are super hazy

 

[popquizkid]

@ttuato and others that saw a post I made this past summer about a keg dropping completely clear. My first theory was using malted wheat verse my traditional bill. Then I started to think it was due to moving my keg in the car to the bev center to can, theory was that the proteins that flocced got resuspended and attracted more proteins to them and dropped more out. This theory seemed like a stretch but this weekend I moved a keg of a sour double ipa and just took my first pour from it since then and it is absolutely clear. Looks like resuspending trub can cause a beer to drop clear.

This is pretty interesting. I don't move my kegs very often so do not have any experience with this myself, but would be very curious to hear if others have experienced this.

My first thought is wouldn't this occur in commercial cans as well since they often get moved around? Maybe we don't notice it as we drink them before they are old enough to drop the proteins to the bottom.

 

[Dgallo]

Polyphe

Then my next question is where do the proteins and polyphenols come from?

Proteins and poly phenols both come from grains, but the hops provide the most polyphenols.

 

[Dgallo]

Dang - second beer almost looks like a budweiser lol. How does it taste now that its dropped clear?

Still taste great. It was a lactose, passion fruit, Vanilla bean, and Galaxy Dryhopped Sour Double ipa at 7.8% abv. Body is lacking some for sure but if you didn’t have it originally, you wouldn’t think there’s anything off with the body

 

[InspectorJon]

Just put my Citra/Amarillo IPA into the fermentor. Everything went well except I forgot the water additions. Preboil gravity was 1.053 instead of 1.055 so mash did did not seem to be affected much. Should I just go ahead and dissolve the CC and Gyp in a small amount of water and add to the primary? For what it is worth my water is very soft, almost like RO water.

 

[TBryerton]

@ttuato and others that saw a post I made this past summer about a keg dropping completely clear. My first theory was using malted wheat verse my traditional bill. Then I started to think it was due to moving my keg in the car to the bev center to can, theory was that the proteins that flocced got resuspended and attracted more proteins to them and dropped more out. This theory seemed like a stretch but this weekend I moved a keg of a sour double ipa and just took my first pour from it since then and it is absolutely clear. Looks like resuspending trub can cause a beer to drop clear.

11-27-19
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12/05/19
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That’s absurd. I never would have guessed that’s the same beer. Good to know.

 

[TBryerton]

Is the biotransformation hops really not key to getting the haze? Really want to skip this step in my next brew but worried I'll end up with a clearer beer.

Have you ever had an Other Half IPA? Doesn’t get any hazier than that and they DH after fermentation

 

[beervoid]

@ttuato and others that saw a post I made this past summer about a keg dropping completely clear. My first theory was using malted wheat verse my traditional bill. Then I started to think it was due to moving my keg in the car to the bev center to can, theory was that the proteins that flocced got resuspended and attracted more proteins to them and dropped more out. This theory seemed like a stretch but this weekend I moved a keg of a sour double ipa and just took my first pour from it since then and it is absolutely clear. Looks like resuspending trub can cause a beer to drop clear.

11-27-19
View attachment 655580
12/05/19
View attachment 655579

Can you share the grainbill?
What was you KO PH?
What was end of fermentation PH (pre dry hop)?
How much dry hops?
How long did you cold crash before transfer?

 

[Dgallo]

Can you share the grainbill?
What was you KO PH?
What was end of fermentation PH (pre dry hop)?
How much dry hops?
How long did you cold crash before transfer?

2row, Carapils, malted oats, honey malt

Ko-5.2 then dropped immediately 4.5 before pitching the culture and yeast.

After the fruit fermented out ph was 3.5/3.6 which was my last reading I took.

Dryhopped with 6 oz of galaxy after 36 hour crash. Then 36 hour crash before racking to the keg

 

[stickyfinger]

This is pretty interesting. I don't move my kegs very often so do not have any experience with this myself, but would be very curious to hear if others have experienced this.

My first thought is wouldn't this occur in commercial cans as well since they often get moved around? Maybe we don't notice it as we drink them before they are old enough to drop the proteins to the bottom.

commercial cans should pour clear if you gently handle them. i always invert my cans and kegs before serving to prevent losing hop flavor

 

[beervoid]

2row, Carapils, malted oats, honey malt

Ko-5.2 then dropped immediately 4.5 before pitching the culture and yeast.

After the fruit fermented out ph was 3.5/3.6 which was my last reading I took.

Dryhopped with 6 oz of galaxy after 36 hour crash. Then 36 hour crash before racking to the keg

I havent had many hazy sours. Wondering if commercial examples hold up good haze.
Did you make more hazy sours and did they stay hazy?

 

[kevink]

Is the biotransformation hops really not key to getting the haze? Really want to skip this step in my next brew but worried I'll end up with a clearer beer.

"Biotransformation" is definitely not the key to a hazy IPA and not even necessary to brew a killer NEIPA. I tried it a few times and never bother with it anymore.

 

[aaronm13]

Have you ever had an Other Half IPA? Doesn’t get any hazier than that and they DH after fermentation

I have and their beers are incredible. I'm definitely going to try this. It's one less process to worry about too. I'll close transfer to a keg after fermentation and start the dry hopping. Zero chance of oxygen this way too.

 

[murphyslaw]

@ttuato and others that saw a post I made this past summer about a keg dropping completely clear. My first theory was using malted wheat verse my traditional bill. Then I started to think it was due to moving my keg in the car to the bev center to can, theory was that the proteins that flocced got resuspended and attracted more proteins to them and dropped more out. This theory seemed like a stretch but this weekend I moved a keg of a sour double ipa and just took my first pour from it since then and it is absolutely clear. Looks like resuspending trub can cause a beer to drop clear.

11-27-19
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12/05/19
View attachment 655579

Interesting stuff.

I recall reading that some people flip their keg to revive hop flavor. Not something I've ever felt I needed to do. But I wonder if those who do that ever experienced this.

 

[murphyslaw]

commercial cans should pour clear if you gently handle them. i always invert my cans and kegs before serving to prevent losing hop flavor

Ever notice it causing them to drop clear?

 

[stickyfinger]

yes, the kegs drop pretty clear when you use keg inversion and let it rest a few days.

 

[echoALEia]

@ttuato and others that saw a post I made this past summer about a keg dropping completely clear. My first theory was using malted wheat verse my traditional bill. Then I started to think it was due to moving my keg in the car to the bev center to can, theory was that the proteins that flocced got resuspended and attracted more proteins to them and dropped more out. This theory seemed like a stretch but this weekend I moved a keg of a sour double ipa and just took my first pour from it since then and it is absolutely clear. Looks like resuspending trub can cause a beer to drop clear.

11-27-19
View attachment 655580
12/05/19
View attachment 655579

The same exact thing happened to me when I did a sour ipa, and I attributed it to me kettle souring for too long (maybe the lacto breaks down proteins?? Just a guess) but never retried it to confirm it. I left it for 3-4 days I think.

 

[Dgallo]

The same exact thing happened to me when I did a sour ipa, and I attributed it to me kettle souring for too long (maybe the lacto breaks down proteins?? Just a guess) but never retried it to confirm it. I left it for 3-4 days I think.

This is the second time it’s happened to me but the first time was a NEIPA not a sour. Both times I had to move the keg after they were on tap for at least 3 weeks and then within a week of the move the beers dropped completely clear. I would say I brewed at least 60 NEIPAS and 10 Sour IPAs and it’s literally the only two times it’s happened.

Your theory could be entirely possible based on specific grain bills. I personally wouldn’t think it would have anything to do with the lacto breaking down proteins because that would cause them to become smaller and have less molecular weight, meaning they’re have an easier time remaining in suspension. But I could see the the ph or lacto itself having some effect on the clarity of a beer.

I’m going to put my theory ofmoving a keg and resuspending trub can cause it to clear to the test on the next beer I do and see if it holds water

 

[beervoid]

This is the second time it’s happened to me but the first time was a NEIPA not a sour. Both times I had to move the keg after they were on tap for at least 3 weeks and then within a week of the move the beers dropped completely clear. I would say I brewed at least 60 NEIPAS and 10 Sour IPAs and it’s literally the only two times it’s happened.

Your theory could be entirely possible based on specific grain bills. I personally wouldn’t think it would have anything to do with the lacto breaking down proteins because that would cause them to become smaller and have less molecular weight, meaning they’re have an easier time remaining in suspension. But I could see the the ph or lacto itself having some effect on the clarity of a beer.

I’m going to put my theory ofmoving a keg and resuspending trub can cause it to clear to the test on the next beer I do and see if it holds water

There is research on PH and haze stability floating around. Its about wheat beers if I recall correctly.
I think the sweetspot for optimal stable haze formation is around between 4 and 4.5

 

[beervoid]

For example.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/j.2050-0416.2004.tb00203.x

Notice in table 2. The beer with the highest turbity has a PH of 4.3.

I cant find the presentation on the subject currently, it has a more clear oversight.

 

[echoALEia]

This is the second time it’s happened to me but the first time was a NEIPA not a sour. Both times I had to move the keg after they were on tap for at least 3 weeks and then within a week of the move the beers dropped completely clear. I would say I brewed at least 60 NEIPAS and 10 Sour IPAs and it’s literally the only two times it’s happened.

Your theory could be entirely possible based on specific grain bills. I personally wouldn’t think it would have anything to do with the lacto breaking down proteins because that would cause them to become smaller and have less molecular weight, meaning they’re have an easier time remaining in suspension. But I could see the the ph or lacto itself having some effect on the clarity of a beer.

I’m going to put my theory ofmoving a keg and resuspending trub can cause it to clear to the test on the next beer I do and see if it holds water

Good point! I’ll have to test that with my next batch. My old response to that is when I pour a can of monkish or treehouse they are more like the first pour and that’s after agitation. So would a lower pH clarify the beer more?

 

[ihavenonickname]

Dry hop with 4oz Citra, 2oz Sabro?
Or sub the sabro out for Vic secret or galaxy?

 

[Dryyourbeers]

Have you ever had an Other Half IPA? Doesn’t get any hazier than that and they DH after fermentation

OH do DH during fermentation- they just don’t do it during peak fermentation. Sam is interviewed in the Craft Beer & Brewing podcast and explains he does this because it let’s him harvest some of the yeast before dry hop but he also specifically says he DHs before all the fermentation is done so as to achieve some biotransformation.

I’m not claiming for a minute that this causes the haze but it is an approach that personally I like. Let’s me harvest some yeast and leaves some fermentation to scrub the oxygen that my clumsy self undoubtedly introduces during DH!

 

[Dgallo]

OH do DH during fermentation- they just don’t do it during peak fermentation. Sam is interviewed in the Craft Beer & Brewing podcast and explains he does this because it let’s him harvest some of the yeast before dry hop but he also specifically says he DHs before all the fermentation is done so as to achieve some biotransformation.

I’m not claiming for a minute that this causes the haze but it is an approach that personally I like. Let’s me harvest some yeast and leaves some fermentation to scrub the oxygen that my clumsy self undoubtedly introduces during DH!

Do you have the link to that? Because that is not what was stated by him in his part of Janishs book.

Wondering which one is more recent to know which one he switched to.