New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[SRJHops]

Well after a long hiatus due to building a new house, I am finally about to start brewing again. Trying to catch up on this thread is difficult. I believe I have seen some rumblings that people are now not using the expensive hops in the whirlpool but saving them for the dry hop. Is this the new logic? What are most people doing in the whirpool? Last I brewed I was doing about 6 oz of hops like citra, mosaic, galaxy etc int he whirlpool and then 8 or so in the dry hop. Does that still make sense? This is for a 5 gallon batch.

I've kept up with this thread and those hop additions make sense to me at least. People might argue over an ounce our two on either side. But 14 ounces total, as well that timing, is close to what I've been doing, usually with great results.

I personally believe, based on experience and lots of reading of Janish and Brulosophy, that hot and cold side hop additions are equally important. It's the timing for the additions on both sides that is still up for debate, including when and whether to DH during active fermentation.

I am not yet on board with using "cheaper" hops hot side. As for cold side, certainly if I ever had "fresher" hops, I would use them there. But all of my hops are the same dried pellets (and sometimes dried whole), so fresher isn't really an option so far.

My main learning focus right now is trying to figure out the DH timing that works best, and also how to maximize extraction on both the hot an cold side.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I recently spoke to a pro brewer and he told me (on a homebrew scale) to barely put any hops hotside at all. He told me a small bittering charge and maybe .5-1 oz WP. Then hit the DH hard w/ 8-10 oz.

I need to try it and see if I get similar results. I think this would eliminate the worry of using your best hops hotside if you’re only using such a small amount.

I'm all for using less hops if it doesn't hurt the flavor profile. Based on a lot of what I've read/heard I've always thought a decent hotside(whirlpool) was very useful for getting the linalool/geraniol into the wort prior to fermentation for the possible conversion to citronellol if you're going for that flavor. Maybe you don't need much though or maybe it doesn't do much of anything at all.

 

[ihavenonickname]

6 gallon Recipe:

7# Pilsen
3# Malted Oats
2# White Wheat
2# Vienna
1# Flaked Oats
1# Lactose
10 mins
1 oz Simcoe
WP (160F)
4 oz El Dorado
1 oz Galaxy
1 oz Sabro
DH
2 oz Ella
2 oz Vic Secret
1 oz Galaxy
1 oz Sabro
A24 Dry Hop

[emoji7]

That really does look incredible - I was gonna guess it has that malted oats look to it. What are your best practices and methods ? Are you dry hopping during fermentation? on yeast? temp and durations? only 50% base malt sheesh!

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

I brewed #5803 this weekend. I pretty much brewed it per the provided recipe
I had a few issues with hitting mash temps with calculated water amounts. It was 29* out when i started bbrewing and I didn't preheat the tun. Lesson learned there. I hit all the other numbers (1.062) and its fermenting away nicely.
I'll let you know how it turns out

 

[Hannabrew]

How is it inefficient? I'm not saying I don't believe it, just curious. It seems like it would be a time / flow rate based scenario with constant mixing and dilution. Kinda like the purge and release method but continuous. Has anyone quantified it?

Edit: If you think about it, the method I'm describing is identical to the purge and release method in terms of volume of gas required, just less hassle because it's continuous. However, after calculating the actual amount of volume required which is over 100 gal of CO2 at atmospheric pressure, I'd hazard a guess that I am nowhere near 0 ppm O2 as I only do it for the 30-40 seconds mentioned above. There's no way it's at that high of a flow rate.

My bad, I misinterpreted what you said. I took you literally when you said you were doing the star san purge without the star San and thought you were just filling with CO2 and then purging.

I also fermentation purge and while it is still technically less efficient (i.e uses more gas), in practice it is more efficient as it's using gas we'd normally waste. Since I need to sanitize anyway, I sometimes combine the methods and push out sanitizer with CO2 and then finish with the fermentation purge

 

[Hannabrew]

Been using Whirlfloc G we got in a group buy and it's been great. This wort is nearly 30% oats/wheat and there were 12oz of hops in the boil/Wap (10G batch) and yet after the whirlpool and 30 min of settling it's still crystal clear.

 

[rickyrich]

That really does look incredible - I was gonna guess it has that malted oats look to it. What are your best practices and methods ? Are you dry hopping during fermentation? on yeast? temp and durations? only 50% base malt sheesh!

This was the first time I went half the dry hops a few days into fermentation and half after it slowed down. I also keg hopped.

Yeast was A24 Dry Hop and I followed Dgallo’s tips on that yeast. I believe it was pitch at 70 and ramp up to 72-74 over the next week or so. I stopped it early at 1.014 cuz I was in a rush for an event. That yeast is a workhorse. It prolly woulda dried it out more.

I’m def using A24 from now on. [emoji847]

 

[Genuine]

Here's my latest - Citra, Nelson and Amarillo

 

[beervoid]

Question about attenuation for everyone. I'm on batch nr 40 of my NEIPA's and I'm consistently ending up with an FG of around 1.018 to 1.020.... OG is somewhere in between 1.060 and 1.070 usually.
I use mainly conan yeast but have played with 1318 as well... I vary the mashing temps from high to low but it doesn't seem to effect my FG at all... My adjuncts are between 10-20% sometimes wheat sometimes oats...
I always make active starters, pitch yeast nutrition and have experimented with low and high pitching rates but FG never seems to go down by that much.

I don't seem to getting more then 67 to 70% attenuation out of my yeasts...
Any thoughts? What are you FG's usually?

Cheers!

 

[SRJHops]

Question about attenuation for everyone. I'm on batch nr 40 of my NEIPA's and I'm consistently ending up with an FG of around 1.018 to 1.020.... OG is somewhere in between 1.060 and 1.070 usually.
I use mainly conan yeast but have played with 1318 as well... I vary the mashing temps from high to low but it doesn't seem to effect my FG at all... My adjuncts are between 10-20% sometimes wheat sometimes oats...
I always make active starters, pitch yeast nutrition and have experimented with low and high pitching rates but FG never seems to go down by that much.

I don't seem to getting more then 67 to 70% attenuation out of my yeasts...
Any thoughts? What are you FG's usually?

Cheers!

I'd say you are nailing it! My FG goal is 1.020 for the style. I think a lot of breweries and home brewers are shooting for around there.

I note that some recipes add honey malt or lactose to get some extra sweetness for the "juice."

I had the opposite problem for a while - mine were always finishing too dry at 1.011. I started mashing high at 157 and that did the trick.

I bet some commercial NEIPA's are even going a tad over 1.020 - or at least they taste like it to me...

 

[beervoid]

I'd say you are nailing it! My FG goal is 1.020 for the style. I think a lot of breweries and home brewers are shooting for around there.

I note that some recipes add honey malt or lactose to get some extra sweetness for the "juice."

I had the opposite problem for a while - mine were always finishing too dry at 1.011. I started mashing high at 157 and that did the trick.

I bet some commercial NEIPA's are even going a tad over 1.020 - or at least they taste like it to me...

My latest was mashed at 148 and still ended up with high FG surprisingly

 

[jjw5015]

My latest was mashed at 148 and still ended up with high FG surprisingly

Are you confident that your thermometer is accurate?

 

[flintoid]

Are you confident that your thermometer is accurate?

The hydrometer could be off, too. I've ran into this recently with a replacement.

I have noticed that my FG tends to be higher when I make the water harder. When I use straight RO my FG tends to be a few points lower. The beer isn't sweet by any means, but is much softer in the end.

One of the biggest changes in my process was water chemistry. The biggest was closed transfers. But water chem makes this style shine.

 

[couchsending]

1.020 is too high and yeah you’re right a lot of them do finish that high, especially the ones with lactose. Those beers also tend to be hard to drink more than one of. I would say sweet spot is lower for sure.

Check your thermometer

How are you oxygenating? 1318 especially has higher O2 demands than other yeasts.

Are you repitching? The “Conan” that’s available is a funky yeast and tends to increase in attenuation a few generations in.

Do you have a finishing hydrometer? Every single regular hydrometer I’ve owned has been off. Least was .002, most have been .004.

Do you degas your sample? If not pour it through a coffee filter and recheck.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Question about attenuation for everyone. I'm on batch nr 40 of my NEIPA's and I'm consistently ending up with an FG of around 1.018 to 1.020.... OG is somewhere in between 1.060 and 1.070 usually.
I use mainly conan yeast but have played with 1318 as well... I vary the mashing temps from high to low but it doesn't seem to effect my FG at all... My adjuncts are between 10-20% sometimes wheat sometimes oats...
I always make active starters, pitch yeast nutrition and have experimented with low and high pitching rates but FG never seems to go down by that much.

I don't seem to getting more then 67 to 70% attenuation out of my yeasts...
Any thoughts? What are you FG's usually?

Cheers!

My FG depends on yeast but I did 4 batches with A04 awhile back. Batches 2-4 were repitches(gen 2). The 4 batches finished 1.014, 1.014, 1.020 and 1.020. The last 2 were considerably higher OG though, around 1.072 compared to 1.062 for the first 2.

So I guess what you're seeing is somewhat similar to my experience with Conan although mine got a little higher attenuation. I didn't think the 1.020 batches were any less drinkable but I don't like finishing that high because I feel like I get shafted on ABV, not because I'm a drunk but I think with the big NEIPAs it helps with the body/mouthfeel. I usually use dextrose in the grist when I get into the 1.070 range to get it lower but I didn't for those batches. Which yeast manufacturer are you using?

 

[Dgallo]

Question about attenuation for everyone. I'm on batch nr 40 of my NEIPA's and I'm consistently ending up with an FG of around 1.018 to 1.020.... OG is somewhere in between 1.060 and 1.070 usually.
I use mainly conan yeast but have played with 1318 as well... I vary the mashing temps from high to low but it doesn't seem to effect my FG at all... My adjuncts are between 10-20% sometimes wheat sometimes oats...
I always make active starters, pitch yeast nutrition and have experimented with low and high pitching rates but FG never seems to go down by that much.

I don't seem to getting more then 67 to 70% attenuation out of my yeasts...
Any thoughts? What are you FG's usually?

Cheers!

With 1318 I’ve been finishing between 1.015-1.017 mashing at 153/4. I personally like being in this range but I only ever pitched over built starters and never top crop from an active fermentation. Haven’t personally noticed a drop in attenuation with sequential generation but have only went out to g3

 

[leesmith]

Question about attenuation for everyone. I'm on batch nr 40 of my NEIPA's and I'm consistently ending up with an FG of around 1.018 to 1.020.... OG is somewhere in between 1.060 and 1.070 usually.
I use mainly conan yeast but have played with 1318 as well... I vary the mashing temps from high to low but it doesn't seem to effect my FG at all... My adjuncts are between 10-20% sometimes wheat sometimes oats...
I always make active starters, pitch yeast nutrition and have experimented with low and high pitching rates but FG never seems to go down by that much.

I don't seem to getting more then 67 to 70% attenuation out of my yeasts...
Any thoughts? What are you FG's usually?

Cheers!

What kind of system do you brew with?

And ferment with?

 

[beervoid]

Thanks for the many replies.

I ferment in kegs. I dont use lactose.
Im using a proper thermometer to keep track of my mash temps.
I do however use a refractometer and use a brix calculator to get my gravity / plato meassurements.
Out of all the batches only a handfull ended up at around 1.016/15.
No problems with quality. Not sweet. Even the one that ended up at an fg of 1.022.
I oxygenate by pouring from "higher" letting it splash.

I think I probably need to invest in a decent final gravity hydrometer to tackle this problem.
I feel the high protein/beta glucan rich grists might muddying the waters when it comes too reliability.

I must add as well I've always felt my beers have been stronger then the calculated abv is saying.

 

[ttuato]

Alright @Dgallo I am putting my faith in you here. I just brewed a NZ Neipa with Nelson, Motueka, Rakau, Wai-iti and plan to use A24 and this ferm schedule. I will report back.

I mashed a little bit higher than my usual and landed at 1.019 (normally around 1.014). The body is shockingly light Considering that I used 2lbs of oat malt and the FG. I am intimately familiar with Conan, so I am sure that it is not the yeast. Ever since my brew a few months ago that was all galaxy in dryhop (1.5oz/gal) I have been leaning more toward the importance of polyphenols in mouthfeel/body as the galaxy beer (known for very high polyphenols) had best mouthfeel ever made and 1.014FG. Nevertheless, the beer is very tasty. I am not sure if it is the Waiti or yeast but there is a substantial stone fruit flavor/aroma going on. The flavor has an "earthy" undertone to it that adds an interesting dimension.

I just pitched A24 in my next batch and will test my hypothesis on the polyphenols. This 6gal batch will get 6oz of galaxy & 4oz of Bru-1.

Thanks for the tips @Dgallo !

 

[couchsending]

Galaxy is known to have a significant impact on mouthfeel. Incredibly high oil content not only polyphenols.

 

[ttuato]

Question about attenuation for everyone. I'm on batch nr 40 of my NEIPA's and I'm consistently ending up with an FG of around 1.018 to 1.020.... OG is somewhere in between 1.060 and 1.070 usually.
I use mainly conan yeast but have played with 1318 as well... I vary the mashing temps from high to low but it doesn't seem to effect my FG at all... My adjuncts are between 10-20% sometimes wheat sometimes oats...
I always make active starters, pitch yeast nutrition and have experimented with low and high pitching rates but FG never seems to go down by that much.

I don't seem to getting more then 67 to 70% attenuation out of my yeasts...
Any thoughts? What are you FG's usually?

Cheers!

Plenty of folks on here know more that me about "same" strains from different suppliers having genetic differences that affect performance so I wont belabor that point. My point is this:

If you want to use Conan yeast strain, use Imperial Organics A04 Barbarian. My attenuation is always 73%+ with ~1.065SG. Only a couple times have I finished above 1.016 out of almost 50NEIPAs - I consistenly land aroun 1.012-1.014. Mash temps 150-152 for 30 min followed by 160-162 for 30min.

Also I follow the underpitch/low temp profile for Conan with A04 - and it alwasy throws peach esters.
0.4-0.5mm / ml - day 1-3@63, day 4-5@ 65, day 6-10@68.

besides attenuation, esters is the big challenge with this yeast.

 

[leesmith]

Thanks for the many replies.

I ferment in kegs. I dont use lactose.
Im using a proper thermometer to keep track of my mash temps.
I do however use a refractometer and use a brix calculator to get my gravity / plato meassurements.
Out of all the batches only a handfull ended up at around 1.016/15.
No problems with quality. Not sweet. Even the one that ended up at an fg of 1.022.
I oxygenate by pouring from "higher" letting it splash.

I think I probably need to invest in a decent final gravity hydrometer to tackle this problem.
I feel the high protein/beta glucan rich grists might muddying the waters when it comes too reliability.

I must add as well I've always felt my beers have been stronger then the calculated abv is saying.

What kind of base malt do you use?

Seems odd if mashing at 148 to finish that high.

1318 will finish a 152 degree mashed beer for me at 1.010-12.

 

[beervoid]

What kind of base malt do you use?

Seems odd if mashing at 148 to finish that high.

1318 will finish a 152 degree mashed beer for me at 1.010-12.

Always thomas fawcett. Golden Promise mostly, sometimes Spring Malt (optic).

 

[leesmith]

Always thomas fawcett. Golden Promise mostly, sometimes Spring Malt (optic).

Not familiar with those grains but their website says they are well modified. So that's not it.

What is your brewing method? BIAB? HERMS? Mash in a cooler? Three vessel?

 

[Dgallo]

Just tapped my newest NEIIPA. Comet and Galaxy 3:1 hotside. Galaxy and Nelson dryhop hop 1:2. Used 5% honey malt this time for some sweetness and color. This is the beer I was worried about last week because the fermentation got up to 80*f when my temp control failed (LAIII). No fusel or other off flavors whatsoever and a very nice ester profile. The temp issue must of been corrected fast enough or maybe LAIII is more temp tolerant than we think; idk but I certainly won’t let it get the hot again regardless

 

[couchsending]

Always thomas fawcett. Golden Promise mostly, sometimes Spring Malt (optic).

This could be part of it actually.. English Malts usually have considerably lower DP than American 2 row. If you’re using a sizeable portion of adjuncts that could cause a small issue with attenuation, possibly.

British malts are designed for adjunct free single infusion mashing that’s. American 2 row is the opposite. Its designed for the big breweries using lots of adjuncts (corn, rice, etc) as they’re the ones purchasing the majority of the malted barley, not craft brewers.

I could be wrong but if you’re ideally just looking for a few more points in attenuation then it might be something to look into...

Can you step mash?

Did you mention how you’re adding o2?

 

[dogjam]

Wow, amazing thread! Has anyone thought about compiling this into a "best practices" cheatsheet for brewing NEIPAs? Lots of possible differences and nuances, but there seems to be a good amount of agreed-upon wisdom.

 

[beervoid]

Not familiar with those grains but their website says they are well modified. So that's not it.

What is your brewing method? BIAB? HERMS? Mash in a cooler? Three vessel?

Grain father like system.

This could be part of it actually.. English Malts usually have considerably lower DP than American 2 row. If you’re using a sizeable portion of adjuncts that could cause a small issue with attenuation, possibly.

British malts are designed for adjunct free single infusion mashing that’s. American 2 row is the opposite. Its designed for the big breweries using lots of adjuncts (corn, rice, etc) as they’re the ones purchasing the majority of the malted barley, not craft brewers.

I could be wrong but if you’re ideally just looking for a few more points in attenuation then it might be something to look into...

Can you step mash?

Did you mention how you’re adding o2?

I tried step mashing but it didnt make much difference. I fill my fv from about waist height splashing the wort as it goes in.

Checked 2 beers OG 1.065 today. Mashed at 149f.
Conan and 1318 comparison. 1318 ended up at 1.019 fg. Conan at 1.018fg.

Went through my notes and checked the recipes that fermented down more. They all didnt have any adjuncts. I believe im seeing a pattern here.
Might be refractometer adjunct related.

Any people here using refractomerer (+ abv correction formula) to determine fg?

Cheers

 

[beervoid]

Overpitch it.. This yeast supposedly doesn’t handle the drying process well so the amount of viable yeast per gram is pretty low as impacted to other dried yeasts. Use 2 packs when you think you only need 1 or 1.5.

I'm wondering if this is still the case. I noticed they took quiet a while to release homebrew packaging and they rebranded it. Perhaps they fixed the issue?

 

[couchsending]

Grain father like system.


I tried step mashing but it didnt make much difference. I fill my fv from about waist height splashing the wort as it goes in.

Checked 2 beers OG 1.065 today. Mashed at 149f.
Conan and 1318 comparison. 1318 ended up at 1.019 fg. Conan at 1.018fg.

Went through my notes and checked the recipes that fermented down more. They all didnt have any adjuncts. I believe im seeing a pattern here.
Might be refractometer adjunct related.

Any people here using refractomerer (+ abv correction formula) to determine fg?

Cheers

Yeah the splashing isn’t near enough to get sufficient O2 into the wort. I’d suspect this being the biggest culprit honestly.