HopsAreGood
Well-Known Member
This is awesome. I had no idea this option existed. Im definitely going to give this a try. Thanks for sharing!
New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA
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Question about different hops. The only NEIPA I made was based on the OP's recipe (of this thread that is) and I used 3-Citra, 2-Mosaic and 1-Galaxy. While it came out great, I admit that I am not all that familiar with the nuances of each. How much does each of these differ or is a singular use of Citra close enough. In looking at a hop sub chart, the first sub for Galaxy is Citra. Given Galaxy and Mosaic are nearly 2X the cost of Citra, I am wondering if they add enough difference to justify the cost delta.
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VirginiaHops1
Well-Known Member
I tried going the DIY route that people were doing using the Fermentasaurus floating dip tube and swapping out the tubing to work in my fermenting keg. I had the same issue several times before I gave up where it just wasn't sitting right and wouldn't pull the beer out
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I’ve never found those ‘substitution’ recommendations to be accurate. An all Citra beer to me is very different than the same beer with even a small substitution of Galaxy or Mosaic. I view them more as...Hop A is going to give you a lot of tropical and works well in the DH, and hop B will do the same. Even though A might be more towards mango/citrus and B might be more towards berries/citrus.
Dgallo
If you ain’t first, you’re last Ricky Bobby
agreed. The substitution are more about providing you with a similar profile. It’s like making fruit salad, if you ran out of strawberries, you could replace it with more raspberries or add kiwi and it will work but it won’t replace exact flavor of the strawberries
Noob_Brewer
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OK, yesterday I kegged a single hop pale ale with Riwaka and the force carbed leftovers were fantastic. Best way I can describe it is NZs version of Citra with the typical accent of some diesel but its not overpowering. Think of Citra with a NZ kick. Anyhow, my next brew is going to be Riwaka, Nelson, Galaxy (Columbus bittering and depth).
Estimated ABV 7.4-7.6% depending on attenuation. OG 1.070
Here is my hop schedule:
Boil (10.3% of total hops): 60min - Columbus 0.50oz, 10min - Columbus and Riwaka 0.50oz for each (1.5oz total)
WP @ 155 (34.5% of total hops): Riwaka - 3.0oz, Galaxy - 1.5oz, Nelson - 0.50oz (5oz total)
DryHop (55.2% of total hops): Nelson - 4.5oz, Galaxy - 2oz, Riwaka - 1.5oz (8oz total)
Based on beersmith stats this will give me 37.8 IBUs which is where Ive liked the bitterness for this OG. I know some peeps like to lower the WP and put more in DH but my personal preference right now is to keep similar %s across boil, WP, DH as I find it gives me the most balance in terms of bitterness, flavor, aroma.
Question: Since I'm hoping for a tropical/citrus/passionfruit paradise with a nice hit of white wine (Nelson), Thoughts/suggestions on the hop schedule would be appreciated. Not sure the half ounce of nelson in WP is doing anything other than appeasing my brain that thinks the DH would be amplified with a little of same variety in WP (not sure if theres any evidence behind this but thats my thinking).
Cheers
Estimated ABV 7.4-7.6% depending on attenuation. OG 1.070
Here is my hop schedule:
Boil (10.3% of total hops): 60min - Columbus 0.50oz, 10min - Columbus and Riwaka 0.50oz for each (1.5oz total)
WP @ 155 (34.5% of total hops): Riwaka - 3.0oz, Galaxy - 1.5oz, Nelson - 0.50oz (5oz total)
DryHop (55.2% of total hops): Nelson - 4.5oz, Galaxy - 2oz, Riwaka - 1.5oz (8oz total)
Based on beersmith stats this will give me 37.8 IBUs which is where Ive liked the bitterness for this OG. I know some peeps like to lower the WP and put more in DH but my personal preference right now is to keep similar %s across boil, WP, DH as I find it gives me the most balance in terms of bitterness, flavor, aroma.
Question: Since I'm hoping for a tropical/citrus/passionfruit paradise with a nice hit of white wine (Nelson), Thoughts/suggestions on the hop schedule would be appreciated. Not sure the half ounce of nelson in WP is doing anything other than appeasing my brain that thinks the DH would be amplified with a little of same variety in WP (not sure if theres any evidence behind this but thats my thinking).
Cheers
troglodytes
Well-Known Member
I'm going to brew with Citra Strata and Idaho 7 for the first time tonight, but as luck would have it, I lost my notes I took from this and other threads.
I know Scott Janish wrote about the upside of using Idaho 7 in the hot side, but I for the life of me can't remember the hop timing I was planning. If anyone has done a similar brew I have 8 oz Citra, 4 oz Idaho 7, 4 oz Strata set aside for this batch.
I was thinking Citra @ 10 min
1:2:2 oz (Citra/Strata/ID7) WP
5:2:1 oz (Citra/Strata/ID7) dry hop
I know Scott Janish wrote about the upside of using Idaho 7 in the hot side, but I for the life of me can't remember the hop timing I was planning. If anyone has done a similar brew I have 8 oz Citra, 4 oz Idaho 7, 4 oz Strata set aside for this batch.
I was thinking Citra @ 10 min
1:2:2 oz (Citra/Strata/ID7) WP
5:2:1 oz (Citra/Strata/ID7) dry hop
JoeMamasIPA
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You are missing an oz of I7 which I would drop in at 10 minutes with the Citra. I also like a 60 minute addition of Columbus or something similar to give a bitterness backbone.
Dgallo
If you ain’t first, you’re last Ricky Bobby
I’m a big fan of that combo. I personally wouldn’t bother with one 1 oz of Idaho 7 in the DH, probably would use at least 2 if I’m looking for the profile to come out in the aroma. Otherwise I would move that oz on the hotside and do a Citra/strata dh.
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A year or two ago I brewed a 5.5% non-hazy, pale/ipa using Magnum (60 minute bittering), Citra and Idaho7 hops at flame-out, 170° and dry hop. Very flavorful and so easy to drink. Hmm, I may just try to replicate it later this year.
Noob_Brewer
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I agree with the other postings generally. I have used this combo three times now and my last one was by far my favorite. I bittered at 60min with citra and then did a 10min split with citra:I7 for the boil. WP was a strong hit of I7 (4.5oz) and a small split (.50oz each) of citra:strata. Then I did a 1:1 DH with strata and citra. I did a single hop pale ale with I7 and the latest releases to me are mostly great orange forward flavors with some welcome pineyness but mostly orange. Also, while I have gotten some dank:weed from strata before, when its paired with citra, the fruity forwardness of strata is elevated with citra. Great combo! Like I said, Ive done a few variations of this combo and all have been solid though. Go for it.
ihavenonickname
Well-Known Member
I’ve got some strata I want to use and am planning g to pair it with Bru-1. Other half made a beer with this combo, but I can’t find any other experiences with it. I am considering using them 50:50 in WP and DH and maybe adding 2oz of mosaic in the WP to lean more toward ripe fruit. All theoretical at this point tho.
Dgallo
If you ain’t first, you’re last Ricky Bobby
Semi Piggy backing off this. Did anyone brew with Bru-1 LUPOMAX yet?
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
One for the geeks only, a paper from Nottingham looking at the flavour differences when you add large amounts (30% or 60%) of unmalted grains :
www.mdpi.com
And even more off-topic, another paper from the same lab looking at flavour differences in non-alcoholic lager
www.sciencedirect.com
Nothing revolutionary but kinda interesting if you're into that sort of thing.
Brewing with Unmalted Cereal Adjuncts: Sensory and Analytical Impacts on Beer Quality
Brewing with unmalted cereal adjuncts can reduce the requirement for malting, thereby lowering costs and improving the overall sustainability of the brewing chain. However, substantial adjunct usage has technological challenges and the sensory characteristics of beers produced using high adjunct...
www.mdpi.com
And even more off-topic, another paper from the same lab looking at flavour differences in non-alcoholic lager
Understanding the sensory and physicochemical differences between commercially produced non-alcoholic lagers, and their influence on consumer liking
This study aimed to investigate the sensory and physicochemical differences of a range of commercial non-alcoholic lagers, as well as their influence …
Nothing revolutionary but kinda interesting if you're into that sort of thing.
nebulabrewing
Dan M.
I have a pound of Bru-1 in the freezer. I've yet to brew with it. I am brewing a hazy tomorrow. I'm pairing Bru-1 with Azacca and Sabro. I'm excited to see how this goes.
Anyone try this pairing before?
HopsAreGood
Well-Known Member
I haven’t used this exact combo, but just be mindful that many people feel sabro overpowers everything in its way. To me, Azacca has always been pretty delicate and not very assertive. I have yet to use Bru-1 But it’s definitely on my list. Good luck with your brew day.
nebulabrewing
Dan M.
I typically use lower amounts on hops like Galaxy and Sabro. I'll be using it more of a complimenting hop tomorrow. And thanks! I'm using my go-to grain bill with a second generation London Ale yeast starter. Excited to see how this pairing goes. I originally was going to go with Columbus, Amarillo, Azacca. I was too excited to use Bru-1 haha.
aaronm13
Well-Known Member
Just kegged a CItra, Mosaic and Bru-1. Early days yet but tasting good already. Not getting much pineapple off the Bru-1 yet. Got the Bru-1 from Yakima but the citra and mosaic was bought from a homebrew shop over here so wouldn't be the best, 2019 too. Went about 2:1:1 citra: mosaic: bru-1
HopsAreGood
Well-Known Member
Slightly off topic but I currently have a beer fermenting with London Ale 3 and im shocked at the lack of krausen. I’ve used many of the LAlll varieties many times and they always have that massive krausen.
It’s bubbling away just as it normally would, so is there any reason why there is literally no Krausen? I made a 1 liter starter and have the temp set to 66. OG was 1.056. Definitely over pitched but I doubt that’s the issue.
It’s bubbling away just as it normally would, so is there any reason why there is literally no Krausen? I made a 1 liter starter and have the temp set to 66. OG was 1.056. Definitely over pitched but I doubt that’s the issue.
chipotlemonger
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I asked a while back about Loral hops. Not going to use those, but have some Simcoe on hand and want to pair it with Columbus. Should I add in a 3rd hop or just leave it at these 2? My first NEIPA, by the way. Any hop recommendations or what ratio would you use between Simcoe and Columbus for a NEIPA if sticking with just those 2?
beervoid
Hophead & Pellet Rubber
You will want to add citra or mosaic or both if you want juice. Simcoe if not hand selected is mostly pine, columbus dank. Use them both sparingly in the dh. Loral is great to boost.
Dgallo
If you ain’t first, you’re last Ricky Bobby
Nothing wrong with the hops but I’d add something to brighten it up a bit.
Agreed that Id you want juice you need another hop. BUT if you are tied to those hops for whatver reason (And no reason not to be, I find Columbus to be pretty amazing) you could do a summer street clone from trillium.
Follow the melcher street clone recipe from here on HBT, but swap in simcoe for mosaic. all Columbus hot side with mostly simcoe dry hop, and a tiny bit of Columbus
Follow the melcher street clone recipe from here on HBT, but swap in simcoe for mosaic. all Columbus hot side with mostly simcoe dry hop, and a tiny bit of Columbus
American IPA - Trilium Melcher Street Clone
My first shot at cloning this amazing beer from Trilium. I think I'm within 90% on this first shot. Notes below of how I'd improve it, but this is hands down the best beer I've made to date. Grain Bill: 74% 2 Row 15% White Wheat Malt 3% Crystal 15 3% Cara-Pils 4.5% Dextrose Mash at 150F...
www.homebrewtalk.com
chipotlemonger
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Thank y’all for the input! Will aim to add a 3rd hop as well then to give it some juicy life.
What seems to be the general consensus around here on boil times? Do most stick to the old school 60-minute, even though they aren't necessarily adding early hops?
What seems to be the general consensus around here on boil times? Do most stick to the old school 60-minute, even though they aren't necessarily adding early hops?
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ihavenonickname
Well-Known Member
I thought I would outline most of the options most homebrewers have for methods of dry hopping this style. I ferment in 5 or 10g corney kegs with filters on them and can’t dump yeast - I think most of us are without conicals and deal with this.
If priority is minimal O2 exposure.
1. Open fermenter during active fermentation dump hops. Cold crash out yeast and hops, closed transfer to serving keg. This can be mid fermentation or late fermentation for varying effects.
If priority is crashing out yeast.
2a. Ferment all the way out, cold crash out yeast. Open fermenter while co2 running in thru gas post, dump in hops, close up and purge. Cold crash again. Closed transfer to purged serving keg.
2b. Better yet for getting off the yeast would be crash out yeast, transfer off into purged keg. Open keg to dump in hops like above - now the “dry hop keg”. Cold crash and transfer into purged serving keg.
Creative options trying to combine low o2 and crashing out yeast:
3a. Finish fermentation, crash out yeast. Add dry hops to a DH keg, use multiple CO2 purge cycles to try to get rid of most of the O2. Transfer into DH keg. transfer into purged serving keg
3b. Alternatively, you can use the CO2 produced from Fermentation to purge out the DH keg (loaded with dry hops) for a couple days during fermentation. Crash out yeast, transfer intosemi fermentation purged DH keg. transfer into purged serving keg.
3c. Is the same as option 3b but instead of flushing a DH keg filled with hops, you suspend a bag of hops to the fermentation lid and later release it by pulling magnets
My thoughts:
Option 1: Most likely to have hop burn, possibly muddled hop aroma.
Not sure if there is less oxidation with 2b or 3a, I think its debatable.
3b or 3c is questionable in my mind as you are leaving the hops open for several days and maybe the aroma is being flushed out by the co2?
I don't know what method I like most... It seems the prominent voices on this thread get better results with option 2a. I have had oxidation problems doing this and I have to move my keg a little bit to add the hops so I lose the effect of the crash by stirring things up again.
Most of the internet seems to swear by some version of option 1. It doesn't seem as intelligent as option 2a and several pros recommend to do some version of 2a. But, I have consistently had the best results with option 1... maybe I like a little hop burn? maybe I havn't been able to really pull off option 2 correctly?
I'd like to hear others opinions, if nothing else I hope this is a resource for people to see the different options spelled out.
If priority is minimal O2 exposure.
1. Open fermenter during active fermentation dump hops. Cold crash out yeast and hops, closed transfer to serving keg. This can be mid fermentation or late fermentation for varying effects.
If priority is crashing out yeast.
2a. Ferment all the way out, cold crash out yeast. Open fermenter while co2 running in thru gas post, dump in hops, close up and purge. Cold crash again. Closed transfer to purged serving keg.
2b. Better yet for getting off the yeast would be crash out yeast, transfer off into purged keg. Open keg to dump in hops like above - now the “dry hop keg”. Cold crash and transfer into purged serving keg.
Creative options trying to combine low o2 and crashing out yeast:
3a. Finish fermentation, crash out yeast. Add dry hops to a DH keg, use multiple CO2 purge cycles to try to get rid of most of the O2. Transfer into DH keg. transfer into purged serving keg
3b. Alternatively, you can use the CO2 produced from Fermentation to purge out the DH keg (loaded with dry hops) for a couple days during fermentation. Crash out yeast, transfer into
3c. Is the same as option 3b but instead of flushing a DH keg filled with hops, you suspend a bag of hops to the fermentation lid and later release it by pulling magnets
My thoughts:
Option 1: Most likely to have hop burn, possibly muddled hop aroma.
Not sure if there is less oxidation with 2b or 3a, I think its debatable.
3b or 3c is questionable in my mind as you are leaving the hops open for several days and maybe the aroma is being flushed out by the co2?
I don't know what method I like most... It seems the prominent voices on this thread get better results with option 2a. I have had oxidation problems doing this and I have to move my keg a little bit to add the hops so I lose the effect of the crash by stirring things up again.
Most of the internet seems to swear by some version of option 1. It doesn't seem as intelligent as option 2a and several pros recommend to do some version of 2a. But, I have consistently had the best results with option 1... maybe I like a little hop burn? maybe I havn't been able to really pull off option 2 correctly?
I'd like to hear others opinions, if nothing else I hope this is a resource for people to see the different options spelled out.
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VirginiaHops1
Well-Known Member
I ferment in corny kegs. I usually either do 2a(crash yeast after fermentation then add hops into fermenter while running gas), or I'll do 3b(dry hop keg purged with fermentation) but with the dry hops already loaded into the keg. This way truly minimizes O2 because I never have to open a keg once I pitch the yeast and seal it up but I always wonder if it's impacting the hops freshness at all having them sitting in the dry hop keg at ferm temps for days. I've made some really good beers this way though. I pretty much was doing my hazy IPAs exclusively this way for all last year.
I don't really see the point of purging the dry hop keg without the hops in them and then having to open the keg to add the hops. Kind of defeats the whole purpose of so thoroughly purging it with fermentation. If I'm having to open the keg I feel like you might as well just do method 2a and not bother with a 2nd keg. As long as you're crashing the yeast does it really matter if you dump/transfer off of it before dry hop? Maybe I should try it that way some time just for kicks.
I don't really see the point of purging the dry hop keg without the hops in them and then having to open the keg to add the hops. Kind of defeats the whole purpose of so thoroughly purging it with fermentation. If I'm having to open the keg I feel like you might as well just do method 2a and not bother with a 2nd keg. As long as you're crashing the yeast does it really matter if you dump/transfer off of it before dry hop? Maybe I should try it that way some time just for kicks.
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Wouldn’t your method of opening the keg to add the DH’s be equivalent to the way everyone w/conicals (home brewers and pros) typically adds the dry hops?? If you’re pushing in co2 while doing this and purge after I don’t really see the concern. Maybe I’m misunderstanding your method but letting hops sit in oxygen at room temp while fermentation hopefully does an adequate job of purging oxygen doesn‘t seem nearly as practical. Just my opinion.
HopsAreGood
Well-Known Member
I love 3B. If you haven’t tried it give it a go. There’s an old thread on here with some serious math that suggests a typical 5 gallon fermentation can completely purge a keg of all oxygen. I haven’t personally noticed any negative effects of having the hops in the keg while being purged. For me it’s the best way to truly minimize oxygen with my setup. After pitching the yeast the fermenter never gets opened, and neither does the keg.
JoeMamasIPA
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I am on the 3B train as well. My beers have never stayed as fresh and tasted as bright until I started doing 3B six batches ago. I thought it would be detrimental to keep the hops at ferm temps for 3 days but its just not, especially since they get a good flush of CO2. Having said that, I wait until fermentation is steady to prepare the DH keg and then unhook it and put it in cold storage following day 3 of fermentation. I think the math determined you need about 50 points of fermentation to get a good purge (5 ppb).
VirginiaHops1
Well-Known Member
I don't think it's equivalent. My guess is cornys allow more O2 to enter the vessel and diffuse with the CO2 because of the much larger opening relative to total vessel size, and the cornys open inwards.
Dgallo
If you ain’t first, you’re last Ricky Bobby
I agree here. you have to release all pressure in a corny to open it and then having to push into the keg will create a current of air going in. Where as in conical or lmc lids open out so you can still have some positive pressure placed on it while you open
If you have a quick disconnect on and can open the valve to let co2 run immediately as you just crack the lid, I could still see you having success this way
HopsAreGood
Well-Known Member
To add to this, I typically hang the dry hops in a fine nylon bag. It makes the process clean and easy with very little if any hop particulate getting into the beer. I’ve also put the hops in the dry hop keg loose with a floating dip tube, so when you transfer to the serving keg you draw from the top. A good crash in the keg should settle the hops to the bottom the same way they would in a fermenter. Both ways work well but the loose dry hop makes me nervous about clogging a poppet if something goes wrong. With the bag it’s virtually impossible for this to happen.
VirginiaHops1
Well-Known Member
This is what most people do and success can definitely be had(especially with vigorous purging after the dry hope addition), but I don't think anything can mimic what a conical can do in terms of being able to crank up the CO2 to create negative pressure and then open a fairly small port to dump in hops. So the various homebrew methods are all a give & take of some sort. Just a matter of the brewer deciding what they think makes the best beer
beervoid
Hophead & Pellet Rubber
I have no problems with my kegs and dry hopping through the top. I set it at 5 psi while I drop the hops in then I pressurize to 30 psi and purge 4x. Havent had any oxidation this way.
VirginiaHops1
Well-Known Member
I've had no problems with either method. Still not sure which one produces the best quality beer though
beervoid
Hophead & Pellet Rubber
I even had a keg plugged after dry hopping, it had a floating device and I had no choice but to open it, while running co2. I had to go with my arm in the keg to pull the floating tube off the diptube (anyone who has this knows what a pain it is) and replace it with another one. I splashed alot and it took me at least 10mins to fix it. I was sure my beer would be oxidized and bad, but after carbonating and drinking it I couldnt detect any flaws.
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While it’s obvious oxygen is the #1 concern in this style, I think theres tendency to overthink it. If you turn on the co2 as soon as you crack the seal on the keg i cant see there being much risk. When you consider most of us drink these IPA’s we drink are from a can, it seems things like this or adding a site glass to the top of a conical is probably not necessary. And yes, I realize there’s ways to minimize risk when canning, but there’s still some level of exposure there.
I'm brewing and Irish Red Ale today and this will be my first time using fermentation to purge my keg. With this recipe there is no DH. That aside, regarding neipas I'm not sure what is meant (bolded above) by a "semi purged DH keg." If semi purged is not totally purged what's the point of then transferring to a, I assume, fully purged serving keg?
VirginiaHops1
Well-Known Member
Minor oxidation doesn't present itself as an off-flavor or flaw though. I've never tasted your stuff so maybe you're cranking out top tier commercial level beer, but I think most homebrewers(myself included) have dealt with oxidation issues before and not even noticed because the beer still turned out pretty good. Also helps that we drink it pretty fast and don't have to worry too much about shelf stability
beervoid
Hophead & Pellet Rubber
Research shows that storage temp up to a point is more important then low do. I wouldnt say my beers are top tier but I do notice when the hops have had a considerably negative impact. I always brew 4 kegs at the same time for comparison experiments. They usually finish in about 2-3 weeks. I couldnt detect any difference with the keg that I had to open. I think there is a limit to how much DO liquid can uptake at a certain temp if you dont stir or splash it alot.
On the other hand, I had once a ball lock that was missing a rubber and when I transferred the beer to serving keg it was totally dead the next day.
