New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[duelerx]

So to clear this "myth", i sent an email to Imperial asking if they can confirm if A38 is the equivalent to Wyeast 1318, this is their response from this morning:

Yes, A38-Juice is the genetic equivalent to Wyeast 1318. I've attached our strain equivalency chart for your reference.

Cheers,
-Jessica
Customer Service

I attach their strain equivalency chart.

 

[ttuato]

Thanks for this experiment but this seems odd based on my results with malted oats. I've replaced flaked adjuncts completely in my NEIPAs for malted wheat/oats (usually heavier on the oats) and have never seen that much change in color even in a batch that I was forced to leave at room temp for over 3 weeks!

It would be interesting to see the experiment repeated by both yourself and somebody else to see if it holds true. I am willing but it won't be for a bit as I have 10G fermenting right now.

@Hannabrew
Probably because you instituted some cold side LODO techniques. These were 1gal batches that I used a bottling wand on day four after 24hr dryhop - still had some points left (I think four?). I put them in uKegs to secondary and finish fermenting, hoping that would scrub any O2 pickup during transfer. I am sure this exacerbated the results, as my regular 5gal batches w/ full cold side LODO and low O2 dryhopping are never this bad. These "regular" batches w/ malted oats take about six weeks to show signs of oxidation. My previous experience with wheat malt lasted about eight weeks, but the mouthfeel was thinner which is why I switched back to malted oats. Nevertheless, these results lead me to not wanting to use malted oats in NEIPAs anymore. I plan to go back to just wheat malt (or just barley & high mash temp) after I work through my current stash. If the body/mouthfeel goes back to "thin" I will just add some maltodextrin (not lactose, I hate that in IPAs) during whirlpool.

I havent used both oat / wheat for some time as I try to keep my grain bill as simple as possible for NEIPAs.

 

[ttuato]

I read an article (tried to find it but no luck) that was actually in reference to pitching active starters recently spun on a stir plate. the suggestion was that the currently active fermentation, and the excess oxygen as introduced into the starter wort, when pitched directly into the full size batch wort would be an improvement over pitching a "cold" decanted starter even if adding O2 via wand.

I have been thinking about trying something like that since i dont have an o2 wand just yet, but have the other materials.

@BeerFst

I think that was as brulosophy experiment on "vitality starters". This is what I do now and now longer add oxygen nor shake fermentor. Just drain from BK and let it splash into fermentor then pitch vitality starter. I have not had any to stall since I started using this method. Caveat - I dont use 1318 which always finished 18-22 for me. I use 007, 1272, A04 primarily - all finish 12-16 range. Mash temps 150-152 for 40min, 160-162 for 20min. OG target 1.060-65.

 

[BeerFst]

@BeerFst

I think that was as brulosophy experiment on "vitality starters". This is what I do now and now longer add oxygen nor shake fermentor. Just drain from BK and let it splash into fermentor then pitch vitality starter. I have not had any to stall since I started using this method. Caveat - I dont use 1318 which always finished 18-22 for me. I use 007, 1272, A04 primarily - all finish 12-16 range. Mash temps 150-152 for 40min, 160-162 for 20min. OG target 1.060-65.

my initial reaction was no, but looking up Colin kaminsky I found the byo article that brulosophy mentions so you are correct.

for your vitality starters tho are you starting with proper cell count and spinning 4 hours? Or starting with low count like in the article

 

[beervoid]

@Hannabrew
Probably because you instituted some cold side LODO techniques. These were 1gal batches that I used a bottling wand on day four after 24hr dryhop - still had some points left (I think four?). I put them in uKegs to secondary and finish fermenting, hoping that would scrub any O2 pickup during transfer. I am sure this exacerbated the results, as my regular 5gal batches w/ full cold side LODO and low O2 dryhopping are never this bad. These "regular" batches w/ malted oats take about six weeks to show signs of oxidation. My previous experience with wheat malt lasted about eight weeks, but the mouthfeel was thinner which is why I switched back to malted oats. Nevertheless, these results lead me to not wanting to use malted oats in NEIPAs anymore. I plan to go back to just wheat malt (or just barley & high mash temp) after I work through my current stash. If the body/mouthfeel goes back to "thin" I will just add some maltodextrin (not lactose, I hate that in IPAs) during whirlpool.

I havent used both oat / wheat for some time as I try to keep my grain bill as simple as possible for NEIPAs.

You most likely had too much oxidation in the malted oats beer. When you do smaller batches oxygen intake is much harder to control due to volume size. It doesnt take much parts per billion to mess up a batch... Malted oats are used by many breweries. I would try the experiment again with 5 gallons.

 

[Hannabrew]

This took gold at Brixtoberfest in Chicago last weekend.

 

[SRJHops]

This took gold at Brixtoberfest in Chicago last weekend.


View attachment 647564 View attachment 647565 View attachment 647566

View attachment 647567

View attachment 647568

Nice work! Looks great.

So, it was a 6 gallon batch? If I am adding correctly, about 8.5 oz hot side hops and 9.5 DH? 18 oz total or so?

I ask because I feel like my last big hurdle still remains the total amount of hops and how much hot vs cold. I brewed my latest yesterday and plan to use 15 oz for a 5 gallon batch, so comparable. 7 oz hot and the plan for cold is 8.

I also did a FWH for the first time. Plan was .5 Citra whole leaf, but they were out so I went with Simcoe. We'll see what happens!

 

[VirginiaHops1]

My last one was the most hops I've ever used, about 8oz in a 4 gallon batch so 2 oz/gallon. Approx 3:5 ratio between hot side and dry hop, most of the hot side being whirlpool. It was really good, total Cashmere hop saturation. I might venture a little beyond 2 oz/gallon but can't imagine going too much more. It starts to get real expensive and I must've lost a ton of beer to trub. I'm not even sure I got a full 4 gallons into the serving keg. But good on you guys for really pushing the envelope.

 

[BeerFst]

My last one was the most hops I've ever used, about 8oz in a 4 gallon batch so 2 oz/gallon. Approx 3:5 ratio between hot side and dry hop, most of the hot side being whirlpool. It was really good, total Cashmere hop saturation. I might venture a little beyond 2 oz/gallon but can't imagine going too much more. It starts to get real expensive and I must've lost a ton of beer to trub. I'm not even sure I got a full 4 gallons into the serving keg. But good on you guys for really pushing the envelope.

Cashmere in the dry hop too? I bought 1/2lb of whole leaf from YVH a while back, so I'm only planning to use in whirlpool with an upcoming brew. do you think you got most of the saturation from the dry hop or was it pretty even? I noted that Janish says its not one of the hops that really benefits from being in the whirlpool like Citra, Mosaic, Ekaunot, etc.

Speaking of Ekuanot, i also got a 1/2 lb leaf, which which i plan to use with the cashmere, thinking 2:1 or 2.5:1.5 Cash/Ekua. I'll dryp hop with pellets (leaning Azacca/galaxy). I dont typically mix up my hops this much, but the leaf kind of makes that decision for me. I might use them for dry hops for other beers just not NEIPA

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Cashmere in the dry hop too? I bought 1/2lb of whole leaf from YVH a while back, so I'm only planning to use in whirlpool with an upcoming brew. do you think you got most of the saturation from the dry hop or was it pretty even? I noted that Janish says its not one of the hops that really benefits from being in the whirlpool like Citra, Mosaic, Ekaunot, etc.

Speaking of Ekuanot, i also got a 1/2 lb leaf, which which i plan to use with the cashmere, thinking 2:1 or 2.5:1.5 Cash/Ekua. I'll dryp hop with pellets (leaning Azacca/galaxy). I dont typically mix up my hops this much, but the leaf kind of makes that decision for me. I might use them for dry hops for other beers just not NEIPA

Yeah about 3oz of cashmere pellets in the dry hop, along with some calypso and Columbus(very small amount). About 5oz total hops in the dry hop and 3 oz in the whirlpool with very small amount at 15 minutes. I dig the flavor of the cashmere. It's definitely citrusy but distinct lemony/limey thing going on. I did an all cashmere pale ale after that hopped at only 1oz/gallon total and that has the same cool flavor going on. The pale ale wasn't nearly as heavily dry hopped but the flavor still comes through very strong.

 

[SRJHops]

My last one was the most hops I've ever used, about 8oz in a 4 gallon batch so 2 oz/gallon. Approx 3:5 ratio between hot side and dry hop, most of the hot side being whirlpool. It was really good, total Cashmere hop saturation. I might venture a little beyond 2 oz/gallon but can't imagine going too much more. It starts to get real expensive and I must've lost a ton of beer to trub. I'm not even sure I got a full 4 gallons into the serving keg. But good on you guys for really pushing the envelope.

Yeah, I hear you on the expense. Though it's still cheaper than buying most NEIPA's in the store. After my AHA discount, yesterday my bill came to $66 for the grain, hops, and yeast for the 5 gallon batch. I can get 24 or so bombers out of that, and most NEIPA bombers in the store are $10 or more...

But.... the goal remains to use the LEAST amount of hops possible to get the MOST flavor.
I really want the amount to be closer to 12 ounces, because I have been told that less is more. But I keep creeping the amounts upward... I used 14 ounces last time.

I have a feeling it's somewhere in my process, and that I can drop down the amounts as I learn more. One key might be skipping the bio trans step and moving all of the DH to the last few days, as is my plan this time.

My NEIPA's are getting better each time, and my pals all say they are really good. But I want them to be GREAT! :0)

 

[isomerization]

Couple hundred pounds of 2019 Nelson at Yakima Valley

https://www.yakimavalleyhops.com/NZNelsonSauvin16oz_p/hopsnznelsonsauvin1-2019crop.htm

 

[leesmith]

Couple hundred pounds of 2019 Nelson at Yakima Valley

https://www.yakimavalleyhops.com/NZNelsonSauvin16oz_p/hopsnznelsonsauvin1-2019crop.htm

Thanks for the heads up.
Bought mine.
Missed on the Riwaka though.

 

[couchsending]

Very interested to hear reports on the Riwaka they get... its even more rare and harder to grow than Nelson. Did it actually sell out or did they just list it as out of stock to let you know it’s coming... like the HBC hops for 2019

 

[leesmith]

Very interested to hear reports on the Riwaka they get... its even more rare and harder to grow than Nelson. Did it actually sell out or did they just list it as out of stock to let you know it’s coming... like the HBC hops for 2019

Not sure. Could be like when they started posting some of the other NZ Hops as sold out before actually putting them up for sale. Not sure I’ll buy some...would have today if I could have combined the order.

 

[leesmith]

Anyone have any insight or comments on this in regards to kettle and dry hop amounts: “...The Imperial India Pale Ale will be released and will likely debut, in triple dry hopped fashion (twice in the fermenter, once in the cask) at the Three Penny Taproom’s Montbeerlier, first anniversary event (http://www.threepennytaproom.com/blog/?p=223). 8% abv, 170 theoretical ibus – Abner Imperial India Pale Ale (in honor of my great grandfather) will only be produced, in very limited quantities, several times a year. Frankly, the massive amounts of hops used to produce this beer (in the range of 70 pounds worth of hops for a 220 gallon batch of beer) prove difficult during clean up...”

From a blog post from Shaun Hill on April 16, 2010:
Reflections on the “beginning”…

 

[ihavenonickname]

Welp the math came out to 25oz per 5 gallons. That’s a lot of hops. I bet they lose a lot of beer.

 

[jjw5015]

Yeah, I hear you on the expense. Though it's still cheaper than buying most NEIPA's in the store. After my AHA discount, yesterday my bill came to $66 for the grain, hops, and yeast for the 5 gallon batch. I can get 24 or so bombers out of that, and most NEIPA bombers in the store are $10 or more...

Gotta buy in bulk my man. Even the hoppiest of batches shouldn't be more than like $30-$40.

 

[paarman]

First pull from the keg of my most recent batch: 6.8%, citra, Amarillo, simcoe, el Dorado, and Columbus.

 

[leesmith]

Very interested to hear reports on the Riwaka they get... its even more rare and harder to grow than Nelson. Did it actually sell out or did they just list it as out of stock to let you know it’s coming... like the HBC hops for 2019

Also...in your opinion...is Riwaka as good as Nelson?

 

[SRJHops]

First pull from the keg of my most recent batch: 6.8%, citra, Amarillo, simcoe, el Dorado, and Columbus.

View attachment 647707

Looking awesome! Are you getting some dankness from the Columbus and/or Simcoe? I'm hoping for some in my latest brew, which is on Day 2 in the fermenter. Goal is to have that dank little punch to balance the citrus. Love to see your hop totals and timing if you'd be willing to share. Here is mine for my latest:

.5 oz Simcoe whole leaf @ FWH

.5 oz Simcoe whole leaf @ 200 WP for 10 mins
1 oz Idaho 7 pellet @ 200 WP for 10 mins

1 oz Citra pellet @ 180 WP for 30 mins
2 oz Idaho 7 pellet @ 180 WP for 30 mins
1 oz Simcoe pellet @ 180 WP for 30 mins
1 oz Columbus pellet @ 180 WP for 30 mins

3 oz Citra pellet @ DH @ 60 on Day 10
1 oz Simcoe pellet @ DH @ 60 on Day 10

3 oz Columbus pellet @ DH @ 70 on Day 12
1 oz Simcoe pellet @ DH @ 70 on Day 12

Bottle on day 14

 

[SRJHops]

Gotta buy in bulk my man. Even the hoppiest of batches shouldn't be more than like $30-$40.

No place to store extra... Need another freezer!

 

[Mer-man]

Very interested to hear reports on the Riwaka they get... its even more rare and harder to grow than Nelson. Did it actually sell out or did they just list it as out of stock to let you know it’s coming... like the HBC hops for 2019

Have they fixed their darn packaging yet? I gave up on them because the edges were piercing the other packages and am hesitant to buy anything else.

 

[Mer-man]

First pull from the keg of my most recent batch: 6.8%, citra, Amarillo, simcoe, el Dorado, and Columbus.

View attachment 647707

How does it taste?

And report back once you've carbonated it.

 

[Dgallo]

In addition to Nelson being at YVH, anyone catch this on the site? I don’t quite get it......

 

[couchsending]

Also...in your opinion...is Riwaka as good as Nelson?

It’s very different.. but like Nelson there’s nothing quite like it. I’ve bought it the last three years from Australia. I’ve had very few beers with it. Cellarmaker and Hill Farmstead were the only breweries I knew of in the US until this year that had much access to it or at least touted that they used it. I had only had it in Susan from HF before I bought some until I just recently had some Double Riwaka.

It shares the same diesel/machine oil notes that Nelson and other NZ hop varieties (and wine grapes) have but can be really intense grapefruit and have other exotic “tropical” fruit notes. It’s kind of hard to describe. It’s amazing how potent it is for how low alpha and oil it is. I think people will find it polarizing and for how little of it is available at all I’d bet the stuff we get as homebrewers is really not that great.

The Riwaka I got three years ago was super diesely. Last years was better and this years even a little better. I was interested to try the double Riwaka from HF since they’re investors in Freestyle hops and probably get the best of the best for breweries outside of NZ and it wasn’t dramatically better than what I bought from Australia this year.

 

[Hannabrew]

Nice work! Looks great.

So, it was a 6 gallon batch? If I am adding correctly, about 8.5 oz hot side hops and 9.5 DH? 18 oz total or so?

I ask because I feel like my last big hurdle still remains the total amount of hops and how much hot vs cold. I brewed my latest yesterday and plan to use 15 oz for a 5 gallon batch, so comparable. 7 oz hot and the plan for cold is 8.

I also did a FWH for the first time. Plan was .5 Citra whole leaf, but they were out so I went with Simcoe. We'll see what happens!

Yeah the amounts are correct. 6 gallons into fermenter, 5 into keg but I dose for the amount in the fermenter. Also I use extra in the WP as I was using whole leaf Idaho 7 so had to use a bag and therefore assumed extraction would be lower. Normally I would've only used 5-6oz in WP.

 

[jjw5015]

In addition to Nelson being at YVH, anyone catch this on the site? I don’t quite get it......View attachment 647755

At first I thought it was an additive. But I think it’s just a smelling kit? Kinda like the off flavor ones they make. Looks like a waste of $40

 

[Dgallo]

At first I thought it was an additive. But I think it’s just a smelling kit? Kinda like the off flavor ones they make. Looks like a waste of $40

thought the same. Seems kinda lame to me

 

[ihavenonickname]

I think the aroma kits a pretty cool! It’s an education tool to train your sniffer so you can identify the differences between things like tropical vs stone fruit vs tea like. Just a way to help you understand hops better. I did a class at my LHBS with a similar kit for the common off flavors in beer, I found it really helpful, I think it will make me a “better drinker” haha or at least more informed.

edit: but for 40 bucks I’d much rather just buy more hops