New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[stickyfinger]

What can I get you to drink

Do you have NEIPA?

Yes of course, we have several!

Wow, awesome, which ones?

Lagunitas, Two Hearted...

Those aren’t NEI...oh, “any IPA”. Oops

 

[Dgallo]

Looking for advice:

When I'm biking in Squamish BC I frequent Back Country Brewing. I'd highly recommend you check them out if you're in the area. They currently have this on tap:
https://www.backcountrybrewing.com/beers/grandpa-joes-insurance-fraud-pale-ale/

It's the perfect mix of tropical and dank. It's also very balanced considering it's only 5.5%. I'd like to create something similar.

It says Vic Secret, Citra and Columbus. I've never used Columbus in a NEIPA, and I don't have Vic Secret but I do have Galaxy and I'm under the impression they're somewhat similar.

Can anyone recommend a hopping schedule? I was thinking something like 2:2:1 Citra Columbus Galaxy in both WP and DH but I'm open to suggestions.

My suggestion would be Columbus hotside with galaxy 2:1 and dry hop galaxy:citra 1:2. You could def incorporate Columbus dryhoping aswell

 

[Dgallo]

I’m going to switch gears for a second, got an email the other day that I just opened from Farmhouse Brewing Supply regarding 3 different types German Amarillo T45 pellets. Apparently they are purposely picking the crop at different times to showcase different flavor/aroma profiles based on the development of the compounds. I checked BSG page and they confirm it. Am I late to the party or is this relatively new?
https://bsgcraftbrewing.com/german-amarillo

 

[Sbe2]

I’m going to switch gears for a second, got an email the other day that I just opened from Farmhouse Brewing Supply regarding 3 different types German Amarillo T45 pellets. Apparently they are purposely picking the crop at different times to showcase different flavor/aroma profiles based on the development of the compounds. I checked BSG page and they confirm it. Am I late to the party or is this relatively new?
https://bsgcraftbrewing.com/german-amarillo
View attachment 634574

Saw the exact same email. Not sure what to think of it.

I also had to brush up on my t90 vs t45 pellet knowledge.

 

[couchsending]

I think 2018 was the first release of Amarillo grown in Germany, or 2017. Definitely the first time these have been released at the homebrew level.

Interesting thing to me is the Alpha is so low considering they’re T-45. That’s basically cryo so the alpha is typically higher. Makes me wonder what the alpha actually is.

I ordered one of all three.

 

[beervoid]

Mikkeller did a "Hop Terroir" single hop IPA series. One with Amarillo from Germany and another different one with Amarillo from Washington. The one from Washington was far superior in taste. Much more fruity..
That was last year though.. I would be curious to know if the Germans changed their growing procedures to enhance the flavor.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Mikkeller did a "Hop Terroir" single hop IPA series. One with Amarillo from Germany and another different one with Amarillo from Washington. The one from Washington was far superior in taste. Much more fruity..
That was last year though.. I would be curious to know if the Germans changed their growing procedures to enhance the flavor.

The German Amarillo story is an interesting one, someone's obviously got half an eye to it going off patent and has planted hundreds of acres in Germany. You wouldn't say that Oregon Pinot noir was "superior" to red Burgundy, you wouldn't say Australian Cabernet Sauvignon was "superior" to Bordeaux - they're just different. Cooler climates with longer daylengths tend to favour more subtle but complex flavours compared to hotter climates which tend to favour more obvious but one-dimensional fruit flavours. One isn't better or worse than the other, it's just down to personal taste.

Ali Capper did a presentation a few years ago which touched on some of the factors that affect hop flavours.

I like the geekiness of selling hops harvested at different times, only goes to emphasise how variable the finished product can be depending on factors like that, which US growers tend to gloss over.

 

[isomerization]

The German Amarillo story is an interesting one, someone's obviously got half an eye to it going off patent and has planted hundreds of acres in Germany. You wouldn't say that Oregon Pinot noir was "superior" to red Burgundy, you wouldn't say Australian Cabernet Sauvignon was "superior" to Bordeaux - they're just different. Cooler climates with longer daylengths tend to favour more subtle but complex flavours compared to hotter climates which tend to favour more obvious but one-dimensional fruit flavours. One isn't better or worse than the other, it's just down to personal taste.

Ali Capper did a presentation a few years ago which touched on some of the factors that affect hop flavours.

I like the geekiness of selling hops harvested at different times, only goes to emphasise how variable the finished product can be depending on factors like that, which US growers tend to gloss over.

I think that last part is definitely an oversimplification. Otherwise, why would larger breweries be allowed to visit and handpick specific lots? Everyone knows there is variability across many different factors (location in farm, maturity at time of picking, kiln temp/duration, etc). What us homebrewers get is a final blend, but clearly the pros can pick specific traits that they want (eg dank v berry for Mosaic).

I think it’s really cool that this (lot specific releases) might become a thing, but probably just an excuse to charge more

 

[beervoid]

The German Amarillo story is an interesting one, someone's obviously got half an eye to it going off patent and has planted hundreds of acres in Germany. You wouldn't say that Oregon Pinot noir was "superior" to red Burgundy, you wouldn't say Australian Cabernet Sauvignon was "superior" to Bordeaux - they're just different. Cooler climates with longer daylengths tend to favour more subtle but complex flavours compared to hotter climates which tend to favour more obvious but one-dimensional fruit flavours. One isn't better or worse than the other, it's just down to personal taste.

Ali Capper did a presentation a few years ago which touched on some of the factors that affect hop flavours.

I like the geekiness of selling hops harvested at different times, only goes to emphasise how variable the finished product can be depending on factors like that, which US growers tend to gloss over.

If I remember correctly it has more to do with the types of pesticide being used. Less thiols are formed cause they use copper in the pesticides in Europe.

 

[Dgallo]

If I remember correctly it has more to do with the types of pesticide being used. Less thiols are formed cause they use copper in the pesticides in Europe.

Copper is a fungicide to prevent powdery/Downey mildew and any other possible fungus also used in the us and across the world for all sorts of plants, fruits, and veggies. Think of hops like buds, depending on the soil content and specific trait, you can achieve different percentages of compounds

 

[Dgallo]

now regarding the different times. Compound develops over time so it makes sense that at different times of the harvest you will have sone compounds more prevalent than others

 

[beervoid]

Copper is a fungicide to prevent powdery/Downey mildew and any other possible fungus also used in the us and across the world for all sorts of plants, fruits, and veggies. Think of hops like buds, depending on the soil content and specific trait, you can achieve different percentages of compounds

I don't remember where I read it or heard but they mentioned its much lower or even not at all being used in the usa for hops.
Probably bs podcast with stan hieronymus

 

[Shenanigans]

Getting back on topic .....

I just brewed a session/micro NEIPA with an OG of 1.035 using Imperial Juice (A38) with a half litre starter.
I had planned on waiting 2 weeks before kegging as I only have time on the weekend
I reckon it will be done in 3 or 4 days as it only has to drop about 25 points.
If that happens with such a small beer could I keg it after only a week or does that yeast, or London III, need more than 3 or 4 days to clean up after fermentation is finished?

Thanks

 

[isomerization]

Getting back on topic .....

I just brewed a session/micro NEIPA with an OG of 1.035 using Imperial Juice (A38) with a half litre starter.
I had planned on waiting 2 weeks before kegging as I only have time on the weekend
I reckon it will be done in 3 or 4 days as it only has to drop about 25 points.
If that happens with such a small beer could I keg it after only a week or does that yeast, or London III, need more than 3 or 4 days to clean up after fermentation is finished?

Thanks

I would bet a lot of people in this thread are kegging at the 1 week mark. I know I have in the last with no (apparent) issues.

The whole clean up off flavors phase is likely an artifact of poor yeast health (from the supplier, pitch rate, ferm temp, etc).

 

[Shenanigans]

I would bet a lot of people in this thread are kegging at the 1 week mark. I know I have in the last with no (apparent) issues.

The whole clean up off flavors phase is likely an artifact of poor yeast health (from the supplier, pitch rate, ferm temp, etc).

Cool, it's only 1 day in the fermenter but I don't want to miss the chance to dry hop before it's finished. I'll take a reading right now and see how far along it is, if under 1.020 then I might dry hop already.

 

[Shenanigans]

Cool, it's only 1 day in the fermenter but I don't want to miss the chance to dry hop before it's finished. I'll take a reading right now and see how far along it is, if under 1.020 then I might dry hop already.

It's down to 1.024 from 1.035 after 30 hours so there should be still some activity in about 20 hours. I'll dry hop it then and keg on the weekend.

 

[leesmith]

It's down to 1.024 from 1.035 after 30 hours so there should be still some activity in about 20 hours. I'll dry hop it then and keg on the weekend.

When did bubbles start in the airlock?

With a starting gravity of 1.035...I’d expect the yeast to chew through that in no time.

At 30 hours I’d think it should be in the teens.

 

[Shenanigans]

When did bubbles start in the airlock?

With a starting gravity of 1.035...I’d expect the yeast to chew through that in no time.

At 30 hours I’d think it should be in the teens.

Not sure exactly I pitched it around 8 in the evening and the next morning it was bubbling. I mashed extra high at 160 to leave some body so maybe that has slowed it down a bit.

 

[Dgallo]

Not sure exactly I pitched it around 8 in the evening and the next morning it was bubbling. I mashed extra high at 160 to leave some body so maybe that has slowed it down a bit.

At 160 mash you may only get down to 1.018-1.020. That’s where I would be with a 1.060ish og at least

 

[isomerization]

At 160 mash you may only get down to 1.018-1.020. That’s where I would be with a 1.060ish og at least

Should scale down with the lower OG though right? I’d assume 1.012, which is about 65% AA for a 1.035 OG. Assuming nothing too weird in the grain bill.

 

[Shenanigans]

yeah according to beer smith it should finish around 1.010 which is my aim. A low alc. beer not too thin with loads of hop aroma and some bitterness. I never mashed that high before so hopefully it works.

 

[flintoid]

I'd like to thank a lot of you in this thread. My last batch of London Ale III fermented NEIPA didn't have hop burn once it was carbonated. 10 days in the fermenter, 24 hours of cold, pressurized dry hopping, and 4 days of carbonation.

One of the best batches I've done. Keeping hop additions low before fermentation anc dry hopping after letting the yeast settle out helps kill astringency. There's quite a balance to be struck. I did add some small amounts of hops once the yeast got rolling, but I kept it small (1-2 oz total).

 

[stickyfinger]

I've had some great success on making low ABV versions of these beers by mashing at 165F, doing a mashout to 170F for 10 minutes and then only adding dry hops once the yeast has been dropped at like 60F for 2-3 days. You might give that a try next time. No hop creep and lots of mouthfeel with sub-5% ABV beers.

yeah according to beer smith it should finish around 1.010 which is my aim. A low alc. beer not too thin with loads of hop aroma and some bitterness. I never mashed that high before so hopefully it works.

 

[ttuato]

I just had my first experience with "hop creep" compliments of Mosaic. I made a split batch (9gal 1.065SG - target 1.015FG) - Each had three hops - Mosaic, Simcoe, Idaho 7 & Citra, Simcoe, Idaho 7. I split the wort and whirlpooled separately - each had 1.5 oz of the hops in the blend. Then split into different fermenters in temperature controlled ferm chambers using WLP007, followed by a initial dryhop at 1.022 of 1oz each hop on day three. I left for vacation and returned seven days later to and dropped to 58* before adding the final dryhop. The batch with Citra was at 1.013 - the batch with Mosaic was at 1.009. I was shocked to see that much of a difference between the two and the only variable was one hop. At this point I cannot tell a difference in the body / mouthfeel between the two but hopefully it wont be noticeable.

 

[Shenanigans]

I've had some great success on making low ABV versions of these beers by mashing at 165F, doing a mashout to 170F for 10 minutes and then only adding dry hops once the yeast has been dropped at like 60F for 2-3 days. You might give that a try next time. No hop creep and lots of mouthfeel with sub-5% ABV beers.

Thanks I'll see how this one turns out and maybe try your process if I feel it needs some tweaks.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Mosaic is kinda notorious for hop creep.

 

[stickyfinger]

If you mash hot, that difference can be magnified even more, due to the extra dextrins available to be broken down! I've seen an almost 2% difference in ABV between a split batch with the only difference was a warm dry hop in one and not the other!

I just had my first experience with "hop creep" compliments of Mosaic. I made a split batch (9gal 1.065SG - target 1.015FG) - Each had three hops - Mosaic, Simcoe, Idaho 7 & Citra, Simcoe, Idaho 7. I split the wort and whirlpooled separately - each had 1.5 oz of the hops in the blend. Then split into different fermenters in temperature controlled ferm chambers using WLP007, followed by a initial dryhop at 1.022 of 1oz each hop on day three. I left for vacation and returned seven days later to and dropped to 58* before adding the final dryhop. The batch with Citra was at 1.013 - the batch with Mosaic was at 1.009. I was shocked to see that much of a difference between the two and the only variable was one hop. At this point I cannot tell a difference in the body / mouthfeel between the two but hopefully it wont be noticeable.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

If I remember correctly it has more to do with the types of pesticide being used. Less thiols are formed cause they use copper in the pesticides in Europe.

The copper sulphate story is complicated, but I know the paper you're thinking of and it's a bit out of date - in fact Brussels keeps trying to ban copper altogether, and it's not used as much in some countries as in others.

But in any case, thiols are just one part of the story, the monoterpenes responsible for a lot of floral/citrus flavours do seem to be heavily linked to sunshine. It's a real factor in variable climates like Britain, you can really taste the difference in eg the 2017 vintage where August was really cloudy.

In fact I reckon if you gave me SMaSHes made with samples of the last few years of EKG, I could fairly reliably identify blind which beer was from which year - the hard bitterness of the heatwave year of 2018, the earthiness of the cloudy 2017s, the modest 2016s, the all-round brilliance of 2015 and so on.

 

[beervoid]

The copper sulphate story is complicated, but I know the paper you're thinking of and it's a bit out of date - in fact Brussels keeps trying to ban copper altogether, and it's not used as much in some countries as in others.

But in any case, thiols are just one part of the story, the monoterpenes responsible for a lot of floral/citrus flavours do seem to be heavily linked to sunshine. It's a real factor in variable climates like Britain, you can really taste the difference in eg the 2017 vintage where August was really cloudy.

In fact I reckon if you gave me SMaSHes made with samples of the last few years of EKG, I could fairly reliably identify blind which beer was from which year - the hard bitterness of the heatwave year of 2018, the earthiness of the cloudy 2017s, the modest 2016s, the all-round brilliance of 2015 and so on.

Fascinating stuff. It makes sense as the southern hemisphere hops are very fruity and I bet they got a whole lot of more sunshine.

 

[NickC]

Off topic really quick. Anybody have any tips for GABF tickets? Heard they sell out quick. Should I get the AHA membership?