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American IPA "Northeast" style IPA

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Dgallo

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Idk how many of you have tried the new NZ EXP 4337 but it’s an amazing hop. So much complexity. I just tried it in a Single hop ipa from Equilibrium. Lime, passion fruit, grassy/dank, with a touch a white wine. It’s like if motueka, Nelson, and Galaxy had a baby together. I will def be ordering this
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couchsending

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I’ve used 4337 about four times now. First few times as part of blends with other NZ hops. Got a beer that will hopefully be fully carbed to can tomorrow that was 80% 4337. To me it’s very much Enigma like, at least the 2lbs I bought last fall. It’s very unique. To me it’s not quite the depth and complexity of Nelson but I enjoy it more than Moutere, Rakau, Waimea, Motueka.

There’s another experimental NZ hop that’s been available for a while down south that I’ve never seen US breweries use. It’s number is 9909. It’s a Hersbrucker grown in NZ. It’s super cool, especially for Pils and lighter beers. Lemon/lime, hay, spice is the descriptor and it really comes through. Very interesting.

FYI you can buy hops directly from AUS way before they’re available here in the US. I’ve got some beers going with this new HPa-016 hop from Australia that I think is gonna be dope. 2020 harvest AUS hops have been available for months and honestly the quality seems to be better than the same hops through the usual suspects here in the US.
 

Dgallo

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I’ve used 4337 about four times now. First few times as part of blends with other NZ hops. Got a beer that will hopefully be fully carbed to can tomorrow that was 80% 4337. To me it’s very much Enigma like, at least the 2lbs I bought last fall. It’s very unique. To me it’s not quite the depth and complexity of Nelson but I enjoy it more than Moutere, Rakau, Waimea, Motueka.

There’s another experimental NZ hop that’s been available for a while down south that I’ve never seen US breweries use. It’s number is 9909. It’s a Hersbrucker grown in NZ. It’s super cool, especially for Pils and lighter beers. Lemon/lime, hay, spice is the descriptor and it really comes through. Very interesting.

FYI you can buy hops directly from AUS way before they’re available here in the US. I’ve got some beers going with this new HPa-016 hop from Australia that I think is gonna be dope. 2020 harvest AUS hops have been available for months and honestly the quality seems to be better than the same hops through the usual suspects here in the US.
Can’t say I tried last years crop but this batch was very complex. No enigma like flavors in my opinion, the enigma I have is very earth and has a deep overripe raspberry thing going on. Very possible that one more year of maturity and the great NZ Harvest this year could have made a big difference. Plus EQ is now getting direct farm hop contracts so there are certainly some variables at play
 

SanPancho

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FYI you can buy hops directly from AUS way before they’re available here in the US. I’ve got some beers going with this new HPa-016 hop from Australia that I think is gonna be dope. 2020 harvest AUS hops have been available for months and honestly the quality seems to be better than the same hops through the usual suspects here in the US.
who's the best seller to go through? have seen nice deals but have always been leery due to the (assumed) length of shipping transit time.
 

HopsAreGood

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Quite the hop combo on that Triple IPA from Equilibrium. Jealous of y'all lol.
If you ever really want to get your hands on OH, EQ, Hudson Valley, and several others just let me know. I have a guy who is the mule kingpin...he only charges an additional $5 per 4 pack and literally does home delivery. He goes to all of the big time local breweries every single seek. I’m happy to ship them to you if you want. Or I could send you a variety pack...just throwing it out there.

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Dgallo

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Dude tht district 96 beer collab is solid. Bitter than most of the triples EQ puts out but so good. District 96 and Fidens are quickly becoming two of the best breweries out there and no one really knows about them yet.

@Noob_Brewer go to the EQ website, they are currently shipping to 10 states. You may be in luck!
 

Noob_Brewer

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Dude tht district 96 beer collab is solid. Bitter than most of the triples EQ puts out but so good. District 96 and Fidens are quickly becoming two of the best breweries out there and no one really knows about them yet.

@Noob_Brewer go to the EQ website, they are currently shipping to 10 states. You may be in luck!
Nope, I see they'd rather ship to flipping nevada and north dakota but not to north carolina lol.
 

couchsending

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Can’t say I tried last years crop but this batch was very complex. No enigma like flavors in my opinion, the enigma I have is very earth and has a deep overripe raspberry thing going on. Very possible that one more year of maturity and the great NZ Harvest this year could have made a big difference. Plus EQ is now getting direct farm hop contracts so there are certainly some variables at play
The Enigma I’ve used in the past (been a while cause I really didn’t enjoy it) was always very “green fruit” forward. Fruit that I can’t really describe honestly, but just reminded me of “green”. Not vegetal
Or grassy but sort of wine grape or some sort of melon I guess? I would got the red fruit underneath. I never got much earthiness from it. I used it a lot 3 and 4 years ago but not much since. I did just order some recently that seems more “earthy”, oniony, however.

The 4337 I have has that green fruit character in spades. What the stuff I’ve used doesn’t have is that typical NZ machine oil/diesel note that Nelson, Riwaka, Mouteka, all seem to have in one way or another. Again I’m sure the stuff I have is probably different quality than what they get but wouldn’t surprise me if it’s also 2019. 2020 NZ stuff hasn’t hit anywhere, even in AUS. Brewers on the West Coast are just getting to do selection with Freestyle that’s being sent to them now. Won’t see pellets for another month at the earliest. Also 4337 comes from the NZ hop Co Op. Even if you have pretty substantial contracts with them you don’t get to select. You just get what you get. Opposite with Freestyle and a few other growers/brokers. Much smaller breweries are getting to do selection and consequently get much better quality than in the past when the Co Op was the only option. NZ hops are just gonna be getting better and better. Which will hopefully trickle down to us lowly homebrewers as well.
 

MrPowers

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I’m really starting to settle in on soft crash to 52-55 for 24-48 hours (depending on yeast strain). Drop yeast and raise to 58-62 to dry hop for 4 days. Then hard crash, dump trub and warm back up to add sugar/CBC1 to natural carb. It seems to strike a good balance between hop aroma and shelf stability. Even with high sulfate (300-400ppm), they come out with a very soft mouthfeel and great head retention from the natural carbonation.

My most recent using this method:
Summit/Idaho 7
Fawcett Pearl/Dextrose
Barbarian
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Fergal

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I’ve used BeerCo but there are others. Shipping price and timing might surprise you.
Cant speak highly enough of Dermott & Beerco, they are my go to for hops - especially the NZ & US stuff. Not sure if they ship to the US or not but have a look at Ellerslie Hops who also grow their own hop varieties. They have a minimum qty of 1kg but they are a great bunch too.
I (in theory) travel with to NZ quite a bit with work. Before Christmas I picked up a kilo of Hort 4337 & Nelson for $70 NZD! I paired the 4337 with Nelson & Galaxy which is pretty much the best hop combo I've ever had! I think it would be amazing with Strata too.
 

Frieds

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Cant speak highly enough of Dermott & Beerco, they are my go to for hops - especially the NZ & US stuff. Not sure if they ship to the US or not but have a look at Ellerslie Hops who also grow their own hop varieties. They have a minimum qty of 1kg but they are a great bunch too.
I (in theory) travel with to NZ quite a bit with work. Before Christmas I picked up a kilo of Hort 4337 & Nelson for $70 NZD! I paired the 4337 with Nelson & Galaxy which is pretty much the best hop combo I've ever had! I think it would be amazing with Strata too.
Do you also get the handwritten notes from Dermott with your order that are impossible to understand?
 

Fergal

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Do you also get the handwritten notes from Dermott with your order that are impossible to understand?
Haha yeah his handwriting is average! He often throws in freebies and all sorts though. Just nailed the customer service part. Last time I picked up an order he threw in 100g of strata because I mentioned i hadn't used it yet!
 

Frieds

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Haha yeah his handwriting is average! He often throws in freebies and all sorts though. Just nailed the customer service part. Last time I picked up an order he threw in 100g of strata because I mentioned i hadn't used it yet!
I ordered 100g of Comet because I’d never used it before and it was on sale and he sent me 250g instead. I always shop there for anything outside my lhbs. Easily the best online store in Australia for me for price and service.
 

lowtones84

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Are you cold crashing for 24-48h before you try to transfer using a shorter dip tube? How much did you cut off the dip tube? I think the floating dip tube is the best bet here.
Yes, and I cut off about half an inch. With the angle of the dip tube it's a significant lift off of the bottom. I'm only using around 1oz/gallon of dry hops, too. Horrible, horrible clogs any time I've tried loose dryhopping, which leads to completely defeating the purpose of all of this low/no o2 transferring.
 

midegrou

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In theory that does look correct. 66 is a great temp for LAIII in my book. Brewer I know that’s won a bunch of GABF medals with it since 1995 does just that. Never even raises it above 66. I don’t really like fermenting these English ale strains warm. I know you get the additional fruity esters but I think they tend to trample the hops quite a bit. Plus there’s the theory that a warmer more rapid/intense ferment might actually blow off even more hop aromatics.

I don’t do many IPLs or really hoppy lagers but it always amazes me how strong the hops can come through fermentation with cold lager ferments. Even with no additions past 10 minutes left the hops are still very noticeable. You can ferment LAIII at 54 if you pitch enough yeast. I ferment Conan at 56 for a “Kolsch” I make and it finishes in 4 days. Got a pale ale going at 60 with it now just to see.

In regards to all the hops in the serving keg. There’s a chance that when you transfer to the hopped keg you won’t be able to leave it for just 2 days at room temp. The likelihood of you getting some refermentation is definitely there. I’d do a forced diacetyl test before cooling if you’re dry hopping at room temp. They’re super easy to do and a great way to make sure you’re not serving people bitter bombs. If you’re dry hopping at say 60 or below, the likelihood of refermentation is quite a bit less in my experience.

I’ve had the dip tube screen work and I’ve had it clog. Always with loose hops in the keg.

How are you purging the keg? The issue with keg hopping is the amount of Co2 you have to waste to purge the keg with the hops in it. Especially at the Homebrew level where Co2 ain’t cheap.

I’ve been happy with the results when using fermentation to purge the keg. That way you’re not wasting a ton of Co2. It only takes a few days of active fermentation to purge so it’s not like you need to leave it hooked up with whole time. Hook it up on day one throw the hops in and pull on day 4 and store it somewhere cold. When fermentation is done and beer has been soft crashed transfer to the keg with the hops already in it.

I’d transfer again personally. But that’s up to you. It’s not hard to purge a keg of all o2 when done correctly. Just don’t forget to purge the lines. If you do it correctly I think you’ll end up with a cleaner beer in the long run.

Sounds like a lot of work but making great beer is a lot of work and attention to detail.
Using an active fermentation to "pre-purge" a DH keg is a great idea! Thanks a ton!

Any concerns with just adding the dry hops prior to that ferm-purge process, to prevent any need to open the keg prior to closed transfer? I won't have a way of keeping it chilled, unfortunately. I use a beverage chiller for fermentation but can only fit one keg in there at a time.
 

HopsAreGood

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Using an active fermentation to "pre-purge" a DH keg is a great idea! Thanks a ton!

Any concerns with just adding the dry hops prior to that ferm-purge process, to prevent any need to open the keg prior to closed transfer? I won't have a way of keeping it chilled, unfortunately. I use a beverage chiller for fermentation but can only fit one keg in there at a time.
I’ve played around with a ton of different techniques on my system, and do this all the time. I open up my dry hop keg, put my entire DryHop dosage in the bottom of it, and then seal it up. I’m use a floating dip tube in this keg and have been using the CO2 from the fermentation to purge it completely. I usually give it 2 to 3 cycles of about 20 psi from my tank as soon as I close it so the hops aren’t sitting out exposed to a ton of oxygen before the fermentation CO2 starts coming in. You can then soft crash your fermenter, transfer into your DryHop keg without ever opening the lid, DryHop for four days or so at 60, and then jump it into a liquid purged keg for conditioning and serving. I also like to crash it down to serving temp in the dry hop keg, to drop all the hops to the bottom, and then transfer from the top with the floating dip tube. Definitely takes a little bit more effort but it’s very worth it when done properly.
 

Dgallo

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I’ve played around with a ton of different techniques on my system, and do this all the time. I open up my dry hop keg, put my entire DryHop dosage in the bottom of it, and then seal it up. I’m use a floating dip tube in this keg and have been using the CO2 from the fermentation to purge it completely. I usually give it 2 to 3 cycles of about 20 psi from my tank as soon as I close it so the hops aren’t sitting out exposed to a ton of oxygen before the fermentation CO2 starts coming in. You can then soft crash your fermenter, transfer into your DryHop keg without ever opening the lid, DryHop for four days or so at 60, and then jump it into a liquid purged keg for conditioning and serving. I also like to crash it down to serving temp in the dry hop keg, to drop all the hops to the bottom, and then transfer from the top with the floating dip tube. Definitely takes a little bit more effort but it’s very worth it when done properly.
Ever think of waiting to load the keg until fermentation already started so that you’re not wasting any of your purchased co2
 

HopsAreGood

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Ever think of waiting to load the keg until fermentation already started so that you’re not wasting any of your purchased co2
I have, and in a lot of situations I’m sure that makes sense. For me usually when I brew I’m pitching my yeast around seven or 8 PM. It’s not uncommon for me to have visible and active fermentation the next morning when I come down to look at it. I just like to get everything set and done. While I may technically be wasting some of the CO2 in my tank, it doesn’t bother me too much. I get a little peace of mind knowing that it’s all set and I’m done.
 

BeerFst

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on BeerCo, I checked and it was $22 to ship one pound to Long Island, NY and wen up to $25 for two pounds for "international direct". Not sure how long that it is. Definitely cheaper than expected, though if i was getting some stuff i'd otherwise have a hard time getting here i would probably try it
 

Steven Barrett

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Brewed something similar to this and transferred the spunding beer to a CO2 purged dry hop keg to naturally carbonate (would have used the fermentation CO2 to purge if I had the foresight). Shout out to @Rainy @Dgallo and @Braufessor, and the rest of you for all the tips, especially on minimizing oxygen pickup on these heavily hopped beers.
 

midegrou

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I’ve played around with a ton of different techniques on my system, and do this all the time. I open up my dry hop keg, put my entire DryHop dosage in the bottom of it, and then seal it up. I’m use a floating dip tube in this keg and have been using the CO2 from the fermentation to purge it completely. I usually give it 2 to 3 cycles of about 20 psi from my tank as soon as I close it so the hops aren’t sitting out exposed to a ton of oxygen before the fermentation CO2 starts coming in. You can then soft crash your fermenter, transfer into your DryHop keg without ever opening the lid, DryHop for four days or so at 60, and then jump it into a liquid purged keg for conditioning and serving. I also like to crash it down to serving temp in the dry hop keg, to drop all the hops to the bottom, and then transfer from the top with the floating dip tube. Definitely takes a little bit more effort but it’s very worth it when done properly.
Ever have a particularly active/aggressive fermentation spill some krausen (might be using the wrong terminology here) into the dry hop keg? If not, would that be a concern were it to happen?
 

HopsAreGood

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Ever have a particularly active/aggressive fermentation spill some krausen (might be using the wrong terminology here) into the dry hop keg? If not, would that be a concern were it to happen?
I ferment in a 7 gallon vessel and can’t say I’ve ever once had that happen. It’s come close a few times, especially with 1318, but it’s never actually happened. I do have a built-in blowoff tube in my system so if I ever needed to use it, it would be as simple as moving a few tubes around. Would probably take me about 30 seconds.

If it did happen I suppose it would be an issue as the krausen/liquid would wet some of the hops, but It would probably be negligible as long as it was only a little bit.
 

HopsAreGood

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You don’t need to keep it connected the entire time, just wait a few days.
I agree that you don’t need to, however for these super hoppy beers I’ll go to whatever length possible to minimize oxygen pick up. There was a post on here a while ago by a member, if I recall correctly, that stated that the entire amount of CO2 created during a typical fermentation would be needed to fully Purge a keg of oxygen. He went through all of the advanced mathematical equations that I can only trust are correct because I have no idea, but after reading that thread I’ve always tried to use all of the fermentation CO2 to fully purge my kegs. I’ll see if I can find the post and share it. I believe it was by @doug293cz
Maybe he can jump in if he’s still around.
 

midegrou

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I agree that you don’t need to, however for these super hoppy beers I’ll go to whatever length possible to minimize oxygen pick up. There was a post on here a while ago by a member, if I recall correctly, that stated that the entire amount of CO2 created during a typical fermentation would be needed to fully Purge a keg of oxygen. He went through all of the advanced mathematical equations that I can only trust are correct because I have no idea, but after reading that thread I’ve always tried to use all of the fermentation CO2 to fully purge my kegs. I’ll see if I can find the post and share it. I believe it was by @doug293cz
Maybe he can jump in if he’s still around.
I think I'm willing to take the gamble of a bit of goop landing in the dry hop keg. Worst case is that it serves as the "starter" for secondary ferm?

I guess another concern is whether or not it would degrade the dry hops in some way.
 

Dgallo

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I guess another concern is whether or not it would degrade the dry hops in some way.
Any break down of the hops will be staying in your keg and you’ll be racking the beer on top of it making its way in the beer. I personally can’t see how degradation could occur
 

midegrou

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Any break down of the hops will be staying in your keg and you’ll be racking the beer on top of it making its way in the beer. I personally can’t see how degradation could occur
Ok, I'm in. Will report back, friends.
 

HopsAreGood

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Any break down of the hops will be staying in your keg and you’ll be racking the beer on top of it making its way in the beer. I personally can’t see how degradation could occur
The only possibility I could see would be if you got a bunch of Krausen/liquid In there fairly early on, and then a bunch of the CO2 from the remaining fermentation could scrub some of the aromatics out. Similar to why the majority of us stopped dry hopping during fermentation. We’re trying to preserve all of those aromatics. But this would be highly unlikely.
 

isomerization

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I agree that you don’t need to, however for these super hoppy beers I’ll go to whatever length possible to minimize oxygen pick up. There was a post on here a while ago by a member, if I recall correctly, that stated that the entire amount of CO2 created during a typical fermentation would be needed to fully Purge a keg of oxygen. He went through all of the advanced mathematical equations that I can only trust are correct because I have no idea, but after reading that thread I’ve always tried to use all of the fermentation CO2 to fully purge my kegs. I’ll see if I can find the post and share it. I believe it was by @doug293cz
Maybe he can jump in if he’s still around.
I was thinking of purging a liquid filled keg, which doesn’t really apply here. I agree with what others are saying, low chance of something bad occurring.
 

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If u aren't putting hops into the receiving keg you can just rinse it out with star san. Push it in and purge through the cut off gas in dip tube. If you have hops in the receiving keg I guess you live with the yeast
 

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I don’t use a yeast that forms that much krausen. If I did I would worry about it potentially clogging a poppet and creating some sort of over-pressurized situation. In the past as a precaution I’ve used the “Krausen Catcher” from NorCal.


Run blow off into the jar then run a line to the keg off of that. No worry about krausen clogging a popper and exploding everywhere.
 

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New post from Scott Janish discussing in detail the "Survivables" concept that Yakima Chief talks about in their presentations: Survivables: Unpacking Hot-Side Hop Flavor - Scott Janish

Helps a lot in knowing which hops are more useful in whirlpool and mid ferm dry hop vs which hops should be used in the post ferm dry hop.

This is a bit independent from the discussions of to what extend whirlpool hops are useful, wherein I start to lean more towards moving more hops to the dry hop. But even then it's still nice to know which hops will give the most effect in the whirlpool.
 

Steven Barrett

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New post from Scott Janish discussing in detail the "Survivables" concept that Yakima Chief talks about in their presentations: Survivables: Unpacking Hot-Side Hop Flavor - Scott Janish

Helps a lot in knowing which hops are more useful in whirlpool and mid ferm dry hop vs which hops should be used in the post ferm dry hop.

This is a bit independent from the discussions of to what extend whirlpool hops are useful, wherein I start to lean more towards moving more hops to the dry hop. But even then it's still nice to know which hops will give the most effect in the whirlpool.
Great article. Well worth the read.

Fascinatingly complex subject. Couple that with studies that show that concentration can also effect quality of aroma (herbal/tea overpowering citrus at very high concentrations).

Impact of static dry-hopping rate on the sensory and analytical profiles of beer
 

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My last NEIPA (Been carbing since last week, I'll pull a pint this thursday) was the first time I used a hop spider during the whirlpool and I couldn't believe how much wort I was able to transfer to my fermenter without all the hop material with it. 8oz in the whirlpool and 7 oz in the dry hop. Plus, I had no worries about getting my CFC clogged when chilling NEIPA's. It's been the best yield into keg so far. I was able to get a full 5 gallons and not leaving anything but the dry hops that were floating on top (and yeast on the bottom of course). I don't know why I didn't get a hop spider sooner.
 
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