New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[leesmith]

You’re literally brewing a NEIPA using up until 10-15% lactose, vanilla, and possibly fruit. I say it can be discussed, however I would say the main focus be about pairing the hops or grainbill

You can take Pilsner malt, a neutral bittering hop, and Saaz hops and make a Saison or a Pilsner by changing the yeast...and the fermentation process.

Seemingly small changes can make the differences between styles.

We are discussing nuances here...pitch rate, dry hop timing, and cold crashing to name some.

Throw in some vanilla beans, lactose, and fruit...and geesh...how do those variables interact with the nuances of this style.

Just seems complicated to me...

 

[isomerization]

Well, I just toss in 2 packs of A24 Dry Hop. That must be overpitching, I would think, but happy to be corrected. 5 gals. OG target is 1.067.

Well that’s actually a reasonable (if money is no object) approach. I was assuming you were growing starters and basing it off of pitch calculators without counting cells.

So carry on with your $20+ yeast pitches

 

[SRJHops]

He said a 1.067 was his OG and at .5 pitch rate he would need 170 billion cells. So to be at .4 he would need 150 billion cellsView attachment 633841View attachment 633842

Thanks for the screen shot. Looks like I should be entering/using MFG .5 and liquid yeast. I pitch two packs and let's say they are two weeks old. 5 gallons. Calculator says there are 180 billion available, and I need 155. So I am slightly overpitching.

Off to the LHBS right now!

 

[SRJHops]

Well that’s actually a reasonable (if money is no object) approach. I was assuming you were growing starters and basing it off of pitch calculators without counting cells.

So carry on with your $20+ yeast pitches

Yeah, $10 in a $70 total spend isn't going to make a big difference in the grand scheme. (I already get the 10% off from AHA discount.) The other option is to spend more time, get more equipment, etc. But in the future, you never know...

 

[Dgallo]

You can take Pilsner malt, a neutral bittering hop, and Saaz hops and make a Saison or a Pilsner or a Belinerwiese all by changing the yeast/bacteria...and the fermentation process.

Seemingly small changes can make the differences between styles.

We are discussing nuances here...pitch rate, dry hop timing, and cold crashing to name some.

Throw in some vanilla beans, lactose, and fruit...and geesh...how do those variables interact with the nuances of this style.

Just seems complicated to me...

Valid points.

Thanks for the screen shot. Looks like I should be entering/using MFG .5 and liquid yeast. I pitch two packs and let's say they are two weeks old. 5 gallons. Calculator says there are 180 billion available, and I need 155. So I am slightly overpitching.

Off to the LHBS right now!

technically you’re not over pitching, you’re just under pitching less, If that makes sense

 

[isomerization]

Yeah, $10 in a $70 total spend isn't going to make a big difference in the grand scheme. (I already get the 10% off from AHA discount.) The other option is to go to the LHBS two days in a row, spend more time, get more equipment, etc. But in the future, you never know...

I had a message all typed out about how you’re wasting $20 a brew, but realized it’s your money/time so

 

[SRJHops]

Valid points.

technically you’re not over pitching, you’re just under pitching less, If that makes sense

Just got back from the LHBS. The A24 was pretty old, so I went with some fresher London Ale III instead. However, I was reminded that A24 has 200 billion cells, and I pitched 2 packets for that last brew, so I likely pitched 300 billion or so! So, back to saying that I over pitched -- and it still hasn't dropped clear. Cracking open a tasty one right now!

Now, I have two packets of London Ale III. The calculator says I have 186b cells available and need 155. So, slight overpitch, but nowhere near the last brew. Will see what happens! (Also mashing at 158 to see if I can get more sweetness.)

 

[SRJHops]

I had a message all typed out about how you’re wasting $20 a brew, but realized it’s your money/time so

Today it was $6.29 more for the additional London Ale III. So, about the price of a good beer on tap.

 

[isomerization]

Today it was $6.29 more for the additional London Ale III. So, about the price of a good beer on tap.

To be fair, if you were following your Imperial approach it would be 4 packets of 1318, or $18.87 each batch of beer.

Yeast starters save you money and guarantee yeast health. Now, you could argue that they don’t make better beer, if you’re so inclined, but that doesn’t appear to be your philosophy given the multi-pack pitches.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Not sure if anyone pointed it out but if you overbuilt your starters and save some your now only spending a few dollars on dme for the next brews using that yeast and that can definitely add up. Cheers

 

[SRJHops]

To be fair, if you were following your Imperial approach it would be 4 packets of 1318, or $18.87 each batch of beer.

Yeast starters save you money and guarantee yeast health. Now, you could argue that they don’t make better beer, if you’re so inclined, but that doesn’t appear to be your philosophy given the multi-pack pitches.

Not anti yeast starter...just looking to save time. The $6 to $10 extra expense is worth it to me, but to each his/her own. But maybe I will try it someday...

It will be interesting to see what happens with the 185b estimated cells for the two packs of London. That's a lot less than the 300b I must have pitched of the A24, and that beer was one of my best so far. The fermentation was certainly vigorous!

 

[ryanm8]

My current batch of 1318 I've had going for about 3 years. Still tastes the same as what I remember when it was fresh.

 

[beervoid]

Fair enough... In that case, it seems the overpitch could be the leading candidate for the drop-clear. Though earlier in the thread others were saying their NEIPA's were dropping clear, so something else could be going on too. I've had commercial ones on tap that drop, notably Foggy Geezer.

As for starters, I currently believe they are too much time and effort. But I say "currently" because I know that I am always learning and looking for ways to improve my beer. I could one day soon come to the conclusion that a lower/proper pitch rate might be what I need to take my beer to the next level. For now, I have other fish to fry -- or perhaps I should say other hops to try!

What was the grainbill and mashing schedule of the beer that dropped clear?
There are so many factors that influence haze stability.

 

[NickC]

What’s everyone’s experience with whole hops? My latest batch has been fermenting 10 days now. I went to dry hop after soft crash and realized the pound of mosaic I ordered from Hop heaven is whole hop and not pellet. Never used whole hop before so I’m actually not too upset about it as it gives me a chance to try them out. I went ahead and threw in 4 oz of the whole hop mosaic along with 2 oz galaxy pellets (did 1 oz Apollo 30 min boil then WP’d 5 oz of Idaho 7). This is a 4 gal batch.

Everything I’ve read on my own seems like I’m going to have hell transferring from my corny fermenter to serving keg. Prob should have bagged the whole hops, so wanted to see if anyone had experience dry hopping with them. Both from a process perspective and what I can expect results wise.

 

[Sbe2]

Not anti yeast starter...just looking to save time. The $6 to $10 extra expense is worth it to me, but to each his/her own. But maybe I will try it someday...

Yupp, time is money, but thankfully I am not getting paid to make homebrew.

 

[Dgallo]

What’s everyone’s experience with whole hops? My latest batch has been fermenting 10 days now. I went to dry hop after soft crash and realized the pound of mosaic I ordered from Hop heaven is whole hop and not pellet. Never used whole hop before so I’m actually not too upset about it as it gives me a chance to try them out. I went ahead and threw in 4 oz of the whole hop mosaic along with 2 oz galaxy pellets (did 1 oz Apollo 30 min boil then WP’d 5 oz of Idaho 7). This is a 4 gal batch.

Everything I’ve read on my own seems like I’m going to have hell transferring from my corny fermenter to serving keg. Prob should have bagged the whole hops, so wanted to see if anyone had experience dry hopping with them. Both from a process perspective and what I can expect results wise.

Do you have a food processor? I know both Industrual Arts and Grimm buy whole cone citra(they probably get other varieties to but citra was the one mentioned) and grind them up sfor their hot side addition, hopback and WH, I don’t see why you couldn’t do it to dryhop. If you do use the whole cone to dryhop extend your times to 3-5 days.

 

[Cider123]

My wife talked me into brewing a NEIPA for the first time. 6-7 years of only brewing low abv and low IBU sessions ales, which is what I like. She usually drinks wine but is a bit of a hophead.

So I make this NEIPA and recently sampled after kegging. Beyond the bitterness and grapefruit, it has a hop burn on the back of the throat, like I added hot peppers to it. I did not add whirlfloc or gelatin as I usually do so to give it that NEIPA cloudiness. My question is, would adding gelatin help to speed up the conditioning over time. I don't mind waiting a few weeks but wanted to see what I could do to help the process. If it doesn't get better, I'm dumping it for a blonde ale.
Thanks

Here is the recipe I used:

OG- 1.052 before lactose addition
FG - 1.016

Grain bill

4# 2-row
4# Maris Otter
.75# white wheat
.75# flaked barley
.75# flaked oats
.25# honey malt

Mash @ 153F for 1 hour
60 min boil
Bittering hops:
.25 oz Columbus @50 min

@15 min
.6 oz Citra
.6 oz Mosaic
.6 oz El Dorado

.25# lactose @ 5 min
No whirlfloc

Dry hop near end of active ferment (3 days) Hop bag
2.4 oz Citra
2.4 oz Mosaic
1.4 oz El Dorado

Yeast - S-04
Ferment @66-68F for 2 weeks

Keg without gelatin

 

[Blazinlow86]

My wife talked me into brewing a NEIPA for the first time. 6-7 years of only brewing low abv and low IBU sessions ales, which is what I like. She usually drinks wine but is a bit of a hophead.

So I make this NEIPA and recently sampled after kegging. Beyond the bitterness and grapefruit, it has a hop burn on the back of the throat, like I added hot peppers to it. I did not add whirlfloc or gelatin as I usually do so to give it that NEIPA cloudiness. My question is, would adding gelatin help to speed up the conditioning over time. I don't mind waiting a few weeks but wanted to see what I could do to help the process. If it doesn't get better, I'm dumping it for a blonde ale.
Thanks

Here is the recipe I used:

OG- 1.052 before lactose addition
FG - 1.016

Grain bill

4# 2-row
4# Maris Otter
.75# white wheat
.75# flaked barley
.75# flaked oats
.25# honey malt

Mash @ 153F for 1 hour
60 min boil
Bittering hops:
.25 oz Columbus @50 min

@15 min
.6 oz Citra
.6 oz Mosaic
.6 oz El Dorado

.25# lactose @ 5 min
No whirlfloc

Dry hop near end of active ferment (3 days) Hop bag
2.4 oz Citra
2.4 oz Mosaic
1.4 oz El Dorado

Yeast - S-04
Ferment @66-68F for 2 weeks

Keg without gelatin

My first guess would be you may have added the hops at too high a temp and got alot more bitterness than expected. I didn't see any whirpool hops? 1.8oz of hops at boil for 15m+ chilling time will come out way more bitter then 1.8oz in a lower temp whirpool. Cheers

 

[Cider123]

My first guess would be you may have added the hops at too high a temp and got alot more bitterness than expected. I didn't see any whirpool hops? 1.8oz of hops at boil for 15m+ chilling time will come out way more bitter then 1.8oz in a lower temp whirpool. Cheers

Yeah, If I brewed this style again I would not add any bittering or boiled hops and only whirlpool and dry hop.

I pulled the hops bag out after the 15 min boil and did not leave it in for the cool down.

I'm thinking of adding gelatin to the keg and let that settle out some of the hops particles and maybe some of the heat and bitterness. I read that time will help with hops burn and a young beer, but trying to quicken the process as the summer has already begun.

 

[Dgallo]

My wife talked me into brewing a NEIPA for the first time. 6-7 years of only brewing low abv and low IBU sessions ales, which is what I like. She usually drinks wine but is a bit of a hophead.

So I make this NEIPA and recently sampled after kegging. Beyond the bitterness and grapefruit, it has a hop burn on the back of the throat, like I added hot peppers to it. I did not add whirlfloc or gelatin as I usually do so to give it that NEIPA cloudiness. My question is, would adding gelatin help to speed up the conditioning over time. I don't mind waiting a few weeks but wanted to see what I could do to help the process. If it doesn't get better, I'm dumping it for a blonde ale.
Thanks

Here is the recipe I used:

OG- 1.052 before lactose addition
FG - 1.016

Grain bill

4# 2-row
4# Maris Otter
.75# white wheat
.75# flaked barley
.75# flaked oats
.25# honey malt

Mash @ 153F for 1 hour
60 min boil
Bittering hops:
.25 oz Columbus @50 min

@15 min
.6 oz Citra
.6 oz Mosaic
.6 oz El Dorado

.25# lactose @ 5 min
No whirlfloc

Dry hop near end of active ferment (3 days) Hop bag
2.4 oz Citra
2.4 oz Mosaic
1.4 oz El Dorado

Yeast - S-04
Ferment @66-68F for 2 weeks

Keg without gelatin

I wouldn’t hop the same way as you but it doesn’t seem to me like you should have got an really high ibu beer. The only thing I can think is the active fermentation dryhop bound slot of the polyphenols with the proteins. It will get better with some conditioning. I would say two weeks from keg date it will be noticeably better.

Are you adjust water and paying attention to ph?

 

[Blazinlow86]

Without all your specific bs3 estimates that if your doing a 5 gallon batch you're somewhere in the 50ibu range as long as you chill below 170 in 3 minutes. If it takes 15 minutes to chill below 170 bs3 predicts 58ibu. Just something to keep in mind. Cheers

 

[beervoid]

My wife talked me into brewing a NEIPA for the first time. 6-7 years of only brewing low abv and low IBU sessions ales, which is what I like. She usually drinks wine but is a bit of a hophead.

So I make this NEIPA and recently sampled after kegging. Beyond the bitterness and grapefruit, it has a hop burn on the back of the throat, like I added hot peppers to it. I did not add whirlfloc or gelatin as I usually do so to give it that NEIPA cloudiness. My question is, would adding gelatin help to speed up the conditioning over time. I don't mind waiting a few weeks but wanted to see what I could do to help the process. If it doesn't get better, I'm dumping it for a blonde ale.
Thanks

Here is the recipe I used:

OG- 1.052 before lactose addition
FG - 1.016

Grain bill

4# 2-row
4# Maris Otter
.75# white wheat
.75# flaked barley
.75# flaked oats
.25# honey malt

Mash @ 153F for 1 hour
60 min boil
Bittering hops:
.25 oz Columbus @50 min

@15 min
.6 oz Citra
.6 oz Mosaic
.6 oz El Dorado

.25# lactose @ 5 min
No whirlfloc

Dry hop near end of active ferment (3 days) Hop bag
2.4 oz Citra
2.4 oz Mosaic
1.4 oz El Dorado

Yeast - S-04
Ferment @66-68F for 2 weeks

Keg without gelatin

Burn can be from yeast but is most likely too much hop particles still in suspension, I speculate this cam sometimes happen if u skip whirlfloc and have too much of the bad proteins in suspension (certain oats types can be problematic).
Time can mellow it out but it can take long. If you want to speed things up fining will also help.
I never fine myself but I've read several times people fining their neipa with good results.
It might take away a little aroma but it should still be a great beer.

 

[SRJHops]

My wife talked me into brewing a NEIPA for the first time. 6-7 years of only brewing low abv and low IBU sessions ales, which is what I like. She usually drinks wine but is a bit of a hophead.

So I make this NEIPA and recently sampled after kegging. Beyond the bitterness and grapefruit, it has a hop burn on the back of the throat, like I added hot peppers to it. I did not add whirlfloc or gelatin as I usually do so to give it that NEIPA cloudiness. My question is, would adding gelatin help to speed up the conditioning over time. I don't mind waiting a few weeks but wanted to see what I could do to help the process. If it doesn't get better, I'm dumping it for a blonde ale.
Thanks

Here is the recipe I used:

OG- 1.052 before lactose addition
FG - 1.016

Grain bill

4# 2-row
4# Maris Otter
.75# white wheat
.75# flaked barley
.75# flaked oats
.25# honey malt

Mash @ 153F for 1 hour
60 min boil
Bittering hops:
.25 oz Columbus @50 min

@15 min
.6 oz Citra
.6 oz Mosaic
.6 oz El Dorado

.25# lactose @ 5 min
No whirlfloc

Dry hop near end of active ferment (3 days) Hop bag
2.4 oz Citra
2.4 oz Mosaic
1.4 oz El Dorado

Yeast - S-04
Ferment @66-68F for 2 weeks

Keg without gelatin

My NEIPAs take a few weeks before they are ready, and peak at about 6 weeks. So give yours a little more time before you give up on it. It could be that last El Dorado charge especially needs a little time to mellow...

I'd skip all but that small kettle addition and put those hops in the post boil whirlpool if you brew it again..

 

[Cider123]

Thanks for the help folks. Luckily I made a mild ale the same day which is already enjoyable.

Cheers

 

[couchsending]

My wife talked me into brewing a NEIPA for the first time. 6-7 years of only brewing low abv and low IBU sessions ales, which is what I like. She usually drinks wine but is a bit of a hophead.

So I make this NEIPA and recently sampled after kegging. Beyond the bitterness and grapefruit, it has a hop burn on the back of the throat, like I added hot peppers to it. I did not add whirlfloc or gelatin as I usually do so to give it that NEIPA cloudiness. My question is, would adding gelatin help to speed up the conditioning over time. I don't mind waiting a few weeks but wanted to see what I could do to help the process. If it doesn't get better, I'm dumping it for a blonde ale.
Thanks

Here is the recipe I used:

OG- 1.052 before lactose addition
FG - 1.016

Grain bill

4# 2-row
4# Maris Otter
.75# white wheat
.75# flaked barley
.75# flaked oats
.25# honey malt

Mash @ 153F for 1 hour
60 min boil
Bittering hops:
.25 oz Columbus @50 min

@15 min
.6 oz Citra
.6 oz Mosaic
.6 oz El Dorado

.25# lactose @ 5 min
No whirlfloc

Dry hop near end of active ferment (3 days) Hop bag
2.4 oz Citra
2.4 oz Mosaic
1.4 oz El Dorado

Yeast - S-04
Ferment @66-68F for 2 weeks

Keg without gelatin

Contrary to what a lot of people have said what you’re experiencing has nothing to do with the hops you added in the kettle. It has to do with polyphenols and yeast in suspension.

I add considerably more hops to the kettle for Pilsners. If anything you should have added additional hops to the Whirlpool on top of what you added at 15.

It needs time to condition, you’re literally drinking hops and yeast. Eventually that stuff will fall out of suspension. So many crappy versions of this style suffer from the same symptoms, homebrew and pro.

Flaked adjuncts, no kettle finings, dry hopping during fermentation are all causes of this issue. Elevated levels of CaCl can also magnify this chalky/bitter sensation. Another common issue with so many examples of this “style” of beer you’ll find at tap rooms around the US.

Next time definitely use Whirlfloc (only 1/2 tab in 5 gallons). Ditch some of the flaked adjuncts. I don’t use any but you definitely don’t need 3 kinds. I’d recommend fermenting So4 lower than that. Max 64 for the first few days then you can bump it up. It creates a lot of heat during fermentation so unless you’re monitoring internal temp it could be much hotter than that. It gets really lactic at even moderate temps yet ferments totally fine at 59.

If you want to add hops during fermentation add a small amount towards the end then add more after fermentation is over and yeast has flocced. You’re fermenting in a carboy? You can probably get away with not bagging them. If you have Co2 you can pump it in when you’re adding hops then purge the headspace with Co2 before adding a solid bung. Ideally you should cold crash before transferring but you need to somehow maintain positive Co2 pressure while doing so.

And don’t add lactose. There’s no need.

 

[stickyfinger]

I've started using whirfloc again on these beers, and I like the results frankly. Combined with the soft crash before dry hop, I am getting IPAs that taste amazing right after kegging. And, they are not murky or yeasty at all. At the end of the glass you can just start to see through the beer and notice it has a super strong haze, but it is a very fine haze that does not form chunks or sludge. I also notice this same visual appearance with beers from the Alchemist (and I'm sure other breweries too) and now I know how they get it!

 

[Cider123]

Contrary to what a lot of people have said what you’re experiencing has nothing to do with the hops you added in the kettle. It has to do with polyphenols and yeast in suspension.

I add considerably more hops to the kettle for Pilsners. If anything you should have added additional hops to the Whirlpool on top of what you added at 15.

It needs time to condition, you’re literally drinking hops and yeast. Eventually that stuff will fall out of suspension. So many crappy versions of this style suffer from the same symptoms, homebrew and pro.

Flaked adjuncts, no kettle finings, dry hopping during fermentation are all causes of this issue. Elevated levels of CaCl can also magnify this chalky/bitter sensation. Another common issue with so many examples of this “style” of beer you’ll find at tap rooms around the US.

Next time definitely use Whirlfloc (only 1/2 tab in 5 gallons). Ditch some of the flaked adjuncts. I don’t use any but you definitely don’t need 3 kinds. I’d recommend fermenting So4 lower than that. Max 64 for the first few days then you can bump it up. It creates a lot of heat during fermentation so unless you’re monitoring internal temp it could be much hotter than that. It gets really lactic at even moderate temps yet ferments totally fine at 59.

If you want to add hops during fermentation add a small amount towards the end then add more after fermentation is over and yeast has flocced. You’re fermenting in a carboy? You can probably get away with not bagging them. If you have Co2 you can pump it in when you’re adding hops then purge the headspace with Co2 before adding a solid bung. Ideally you should cold crash before transferring but you need to somehow maintain positive Co2 pressure while doing so.

And don’t add lactose. There’s no need.

Thanks. I learned a lot by brewing this beer, regardless of how it turns out.

 

[Loud Brewing]

I've started using whirfloc again on these beers, and I like the results frankly. Combined with the soft crash before dry hop, I am getting IPAs that taste amazing right after kegging. And, they are not murky or yeasty at all. At the end of the glass you can just start to see through the beer and notice it has a super strong haze, but it is a very fine haze that does not form chunks or sludge. I also notice this same visual appearance with beers from the Alchemist (and I'm sure other breweries too) and now I know how they get it!

Nice, I have also recently started using small amounts of kettle agents, just nothing in the keg.
I do enjoy the slightly more refined, no murk North Eastern styles, but I also love a opaque adjunct filled heavily hopped juice bomb.
One thing I am surprised that is not discussed here more often is the different interpretations that we all have of the neipa style. Its almost as if there are 2 sub genres within the sub genre of neipa/hazy ipa.

 

[rickyrich]

Latest rendition of this brew served at my rehearsal dinner and wedding! (Best version yet, keg kicked in 30 mins and 50 bottles instantly vanished at the reception)

What was the recipe on this one? Congrats brother. Looks like everyone had an amazing time and that looks like one tasty brew.

 

[Andre3000]

Looking for advice:

When I'm biking in Squamish BC I frequent Back Country Brewing. I'd highly recommend you check them out if you're in the area. They currently have this on tap:
https://www.backcountrybrewing.com/beers/grandpa-joes-insurance-fraud-pale-ale/

It's the perfect mix of tropical and dank. It's also very balanced considering it's only 5.5%. I'd like to create something similar.

It says Vic Secret, Citra and Columbus. I've never used Columbus in a NEIPA, and I don't have Vic Secret but I do have Galaxy and I'm under the impression they're somewhat similar.

Can anyone recommend a hopping schedule? I was thinking something like 2:2:1 Citra Columbus Galaxy in both WP and DH but I'm open to suggestions.

 

[stickyfinger]

What can I get you to drink

Do you have NEIPA?

Yes of course, we have several!

Wow, awesome, which ones?

Lagunitas, Two Hearted...

Those aren’t NEI...oh, “any IPA”. Oops

 

[Dgallo]

Looking for advice:

When I'm biking in Squamish BC I frequent Back Country Brewing. I'd highly recommend you check them out if you're in the area. They currently have this on tap:
https://www.backcountrybrewing.com/beers/grandpa-joes-insurance-fraud-pale-ale/

It's the perfect mix of tropical and dank. It's also very balanced considering it's only 5.5%. I'd like to create something similar.

It says Vic Secret, Citra and Columbus. I've never used Columbus in a NEIPA, and I don't have Vic Secret but I do have Galaxy and I'm under the impression they're somewhat similar.

Can anyone recommend a hopping schedule? I was thinking something like 2:2:1 Citra Columbus Galaxy in both WP and DH but I'm open to suggestions.

My suggestion would be Columbus hotside with galaxy 2:1 and dry hop galaxy:citra 1:2. You could def incorporate Columbus dryhoping aswell

 

[Dgallo]

I’m going to switch gears for a second, got an email the other day that I just opened from Farmhouse Brewing Supply regarding 3 different types German Amarillo T45 pellets. Apparently they are purposely picking the crop at different times to showcase different flavor/aroma profiles based on the development of the compounds. I checked BSG page and they confirm it. Am I late to the party or is this relatively new?
https://bsgcraftbrewing.com/german-amarillo

 

[Sbe2]

I’m going to switch gears for a second, got an email the other day that I just opened from Farmhouse Brewing Supply regarding 3 different types German Amarillo T45 pellets. Apparently they are purposely picking the crop at different times to showcase different flavor/aroma profiles based on the development of the compounds. I checked BSG page and they confirm it. Am I late to the party or is this relatively new?
https://bsgcraftbrewing.com/german-amarillo
View attachment 634574

Saw the exact same email. Not sure what to think of it.

I also had to brush up on my t90 vs t45 pellet knowledge.

 

[couchsending]

I think 2018 was the first release of Amarillo grown in Germany, or 2017. Definitely the first time these have been released at the homebrew level.

Interesting thing to me is the Alpha is so low considering they’re T-45. That’s basically cryo so the alpha is typically higher. Makes me wonder what the alpha actually is.

I ordered one of all three.

 

[beervoid]

Mikkeller did a "Hop Terroir" single hop IPA series. One with Amarillo from Germany and another different one with Amarillo from Washington. The one from Washington was far superior in taste. Much more fruity..
That was last year though.. I would be curious to know if the Germans changed their growing procedures to enhance the flavor.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Mikkeller did a "Hop Terroir" single hop IPA series. One with Amarillo from Germany and another different one with Amarillo from Washington. The one from Washington was far superior in taste. Much more fruity..
That was last year though.. I would be curious to know if the Germans changed their growing procedures to enhance the flavor.

The German Amarillo story is an interesting one, someone's obviously got half an eye to it going off patent and has planted hundreds of acres in Germany. You wouldn't say that Oregon Pinot noir was "superior" to red Burgundy, you wouldn't say Australian Cabernet Sauvignon was "superior" to Bordeaux - they're just different. Cooler climates with longer daylengths tend to favour more subtle but complex flavours compared to hotter climates which tend to favour more obvious but one-dimensional fruit flavours. One isn't better or worse than the other, it's just down to personal taste.

Ali Capper did a presentation a few years ago which touched on some of the factors that affect hop flavours.

I like the geekiness of selling hops harvested at different times, only goes to emphasise how variable the finished product can be depending on factors like that, which US growers tend to gloss over.

 

[isomerization]

The German Amarillo story is an interesting one, someone's obviously got half an eye to it going off patent and has planted hundreds of acres in Germany. You wouldn't say that Oregon Pinot noir was "superior" to red Burgundy, you wouldn't say Australian Cabernet Sauvignon was "superior" to Bordeaux - they're just different. Cooler climates with longer daylengths tend to favour more subtle but complex flavours compared to hotter climates which tend to favour more obvious but one-dimensional fruit flavours. One isn't better or worse than the other, it's just down to personal taste.

Ali Capper did a presentation a few years ago which touched on some of the factors that affect hop flavours.

I like the geekiness of selling hops harvested at different times, only goes to emphasise how variable the finished product can be depending on factors like that, which US growers tend to gloss over.

I think that last part is definitely an oversimplification. Otherwise, why would larger breweries be allowed to visit and handpick specific lots? Everyone knows there is variability across many different factors (location in farm, maturity at time of picking, kiln temp/duration, etc). What us homebrewers get is a final blend, but clearly the pros can pick specific traits that they want (eg dank v berry for Mosaic).

I think it’s really cool that this (lot specific releases) might become a thing, but probably just an excuse to charge more

 

[beervoid]

The German Amarillo story is an interesting one, someone's obviously got half an eye to it going off patent and has planted hundreds of acres in Germany. You wouldn't say that Oregon Pinot noir was "superior" to red Burgundy, you wouldn't say Australian Cabernet Sauvignon was "superior" to Bordeaux - they're just different. Cooler climates with longer daylengths tend to favour more subtle but complex flavours compared to hotter climates which tend to favour more obvious but one-dimensional fruit flavours. One isn't better or worse than the other, it's just down to personal taste.

Ali Capper did a presentation a few years ago which touched on some of the factors that affect hop flavours.

I like the geekiness of selling hops harvested at different times, only goes to emphasise how variable the finished product can be depending on factors like that, which US growers tend to gloss over.

If I remember correctly it has more to do with the types of pesticide being used. Less thiols are formed cause they use copper in the pesticides in Europe.

 

[Dgallo]

If I remember correctly it has more to do with the types of pesticide being used. Less thiols are formed cause they use copper in the pesticides in Europe.

Copper is a fungicide to prevent powdery/Downey mildew and any other possible fungus also used in the us and across the world for all sorts of plants, fruits, and veggies. Think of hops like buds, depending on the soil content and specific trait, you can achieve different percentages of compounds