New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[stickyfinger]

Hey, thanks for the info. I ordered the paperback version but won't get it for a few days - very excited to read it! I am brewing a couple IPAs tomorrow and want to use this method you have outlined. I just have a few questions about the temperature transitions and the first two dry hops. Can you please clarify?

- i was going to attach my temperature controller probe to the side of my fermenter with insulation throughout this entire process, even during the temp increases. I assume that would be fine?

- is the first dry hop added when the beer is still at 72F but right before crashing to 64F OR right when the beer reaches 64F OR after it has been held at 64F for 2 days?

- is the second dry hop added before you raise the beer to 72F OR right when you get to 72F or after the beer has been held at 72F for 5 days?

I have read to Chapter 8 of Janish book so far - lots of great info and science explanation behind what we do (be warned - very scientific language used at times). I won't provide a bunch of spoilers but I do want to point out interesting process tweaks based on scientific tests regarding yeast / fermentation schedule for Ale yeast & dry hopping for NEIPA to increase esters & reduce unwanted non-fruity hop oils or astringency from polyphenols. (This is not overtly stated in book - I pieced this together.)

• Overpitch yeast - leads to increased esters (this was new info to me - not sure I will try this though)
  
• Pitch warm (3-5 degrees higher than top of your specific yeast temp range) and continue chilling to desired temp ---- leads to increased esters and possibly greater glycerol (max glycerol production in first 18hrs) (this was new info to me- definitely gonna do this since summer)
• Ferment on the warm side of the schedule - (temp that highest on scale for your yeast - usually 72-74) - increases fruity esters (no surprise here)
• Approximately 60hrs after pitch yeast, DROP the temp to lowest temp for your specific yeast (usually 60-64*) - leads to significant increase in esters. (this was new info to me - for sure gonna do this). Hold this low temp for approximately two days and add first small dryhop (no more than 3-4oz & make sure to do LODO process)
• This should have you around day 5-6. Allow the temp to freerise back to the high end of the ferm schedule for the yeast (~72-74) hold this for 5 days add another small dryhop if desired (no more than 2-3oz & make sure to do LODO process
• Day 10-11 - Crash it to around 58* hold for a day for the yeast to crash then add final dryhop (no more than 3-4oz & make sure to do LODO process). After 24hr crash completely - get the beer transferred off the final dryhop in under 48hrs
• In case you didn't notice the recommendation is small dryhop charges spread across 2-3 charges, including a biotrans dryhop - this reduces astringency from polyphenols & "green" hop oils and increases extraction efficiency of the hops - in turn this makes the beer drinkable sooner. (Not necessarily new info but I am gonna try the triple dryhop instead of my usual double to see if different).

There are few other pearls that I have gathered too. The above has me the most excited so far to try with NEIPAs and some process tweaks to improve my lager brewing that I learned. I strongly recommend everyone add this book to their brewing library.

 

[stickyfinger]

Forgot to say that this Janish temperature fluctuation stuff reminds me of the BN CYBI episode where they try to replicate Fuller’s ESB. They skipped the fancy temperature profile for fermentation the first time and then used it the next time and got a lot closer. Anyone who’s had Fuller’s ESB knows it is a fruit BOMB! Must be similar thinking here, pretty cool.

 

[JohnConnor]

Forgot to say that this Janish temperature fluctuation stuff reminds me of the BN CYBI episode where they try to replicate Fuller’s ESB. They skipped the fancy temperature profile for fermentation the first time and then used it the next time and got a lot closer. Anyone who’s had Fuller’s ESB knows it is a fruit BOMB! Must be similar thinking here, pretty cool.

What's the "fancy temperature profile" they used to get close?

 

[stickyfinger]

What's the "fancy temperature profile" they used to get close?

i don't remember exactly, been a long time. it had something to do with jacking the temp down and up in the middle of fermentation...

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/post1633/

 

[ihavenonickname]

Process question, I can't decide what I think is better for timing of dry hops:


1) All 6oz on day 2-3. Hops are in weighted large bag in FV, then a truly closed oxygen free transfer into keg

2) 3oz dry hop on day 2-3 and 3oz dry hop in the keg loose. Closed transfer but not truly oxygen free because keg can only be burped with CO2 after the hops are in there.

 

[Dgallo]

Process question, I can't decide what I think is better for timing of dry hops:


1) All 6oz on day 2-3. Hops are in weighted large bag in FV, then a truly closed oxygen free transfer into keg

2) 3oz dry hop on day 2-3 and 3oz dry hop in the keg loose. Closed transfer but not truly oxygen free because keg can only be burped with CO2 after the hops are in there.

Can you dryhop in your fermenter and close transfer from there? I’m always a firm believer in loose dryhops

 

[ihavenonickname]

Can you dryhop in your fermenter and close transfer from there? I’m always a firm believer in loose dryhops

Yeah I can, I've got a anvil ss bucket, but I use huge fine mesh bags (which I like a little more than the canisters) to dry hop so i don't get a clog on my transfer. I've tried without but even with an extended cold crash and turning up the rotating racking arm I got clogs at the liquid "in" qd.

Do you think its better than keg hopping and burping with Co2 to get the majority of O2 out?

 

[Dgallo]

Yeah I can, I've got a anvil ss bucket, but I use huge fine mesh bags (which I like a little more than the canisters) to dry hop so i don't get a clog on my transfer. I've tried without but even with an extended cold crash and turning up the rotating racking arm I got clogs at the liquid "in" qd.

Do you think its better than keg hopping and burping with Co2 to get the majority of O2 out?

Idk, I’ve never keg hopped. I don’t have a floating dip tube and I’m Always afraid clogging it or getting hop particles jammed in the liquid balllock post. Someone with experience there is better than I to answer that.

 

[marchuk96]

Idk, I’ve never keg hopped. I don’t have a floating dip tube and I’m Always afraid clogging it or getting hop particles jammed in the liquid balllock post. Someone with experience there is better than I to answer that.

Agreed..I've never keg hopped either but I just don't see the point...extra hassle and more material to flock out for a minimal return IMO...I'll stick to my 2 day dry hop warm

 

[ttuato]

Hey, thanks for the info. I ordered the paperback version but won't get it for a few days - very excited to read it! I am brewing a couple IPAs tomorrow and want to use this method you have outlined. I just have a few questions about the temperature transitions and the first two dry hops. Can you please clarify?

- i was going to attach my temperature controller probe to the side of my fermenter with insulation throughout this entire process, even during the temp increases. I assume that would be fine?

- is the first dry hop added when the beer is still at 72F but right before crashing to 64F OR right when the beer reaches 64F OR after it has been held at 64F for 2 days?

- is the second dry hop added before you raise the beer to 72F OR right when you get to 72F or after the beer has been held at 72F for 5 days?

@stickyfinger Sorry for the delay but I think I still caught you before before dryhop timing. Let me start with this

DISCLAIMER: I have not attempted the ferm schedule yet - just reporting back what I picked up from the book.

I am not brewing a NEIPA again until 6/21 and am planning of trying this then, so I would love to hear what you think. Now to answer your questions.

The challenge with externally mounted thermometer is that the temp during primary fermentation is warmer in the center of the liquid compared to the edges AND the other side of the fermenter wall. As such, if using a externally mounted thermometer I would consider adjusting the temps in the ferm schedule down 2-3 degrees for the first four days down only. After the first four days the majority of fermentation would be finished with ale yeast and the heat output by fermentation would have subsided and the temp gradient within the liquid should have normalized.

First dry hop would be after the temp drop to the low side of the ferm schedule. The premise that I gathered from the book is that the higher pitching temp plus the higher temp of the first 60hrs would lead to a much more vigorous / faster fermentation. Assuming this is true the SG should be at least in the 1.020's by you drop it to th low end of the temp schedule (if not I would personally wait until it hits 1.024). The goal of this dryhop is to strip the "green" hop oils (non-polar) and boost linalool & geraniol (polar) - not for biotransformation, just flavor contribution - as well as to layer thiols. Additional benefit by doing this dryhop is to "lock-in" more haze (polyphenol/protein complex) that the oils (both polar & non-polar) from the subsequent dryhops can cling to. Moral of story - research says that you need to at least do a double dryhop along with boil hops & whirlpool to get maximum saturation of hop oils in beer.

Second dry hop - nothing specific on timing or actual benefit for this one is given other than a general recommendation to add dryhops in multiple additions to boost efficiency and layer different hop oils. The most critical part here is to not overdo this one (smallest of the three) since it will have a long exposure to the beer (polyphenols) and will lack active yeast to strip the green / woody hop oils.

Third dry hop - largest of the three dryhops. 90% extraction occurs of the GOOD hop oils / thiols occur within 24 hrs regardless of the temp. The green/woody hop oils take up to 72hrs to fully extract. I have been subscribing to this particular process step for several months - it definitely makes a difference in conditioning time and longevity.

 

[ttuato]

Yeah I can, I've got a anvil ss bucket, but I use huge fine mesh bags (which I like a little more than the canisters) to dry hop so i don't get a clog on my transfer. I've tried without but even with an extended cold crash and turning up the rotating racking arm I got clogs at the liquid "in" qd.

Do you think its better than keg hopping and burping with Co2 to get the majority of O2 out?

@ihavenonickname


Split the hops - see my previous post.

Keg hopping sucks, in my opinion, UNLESS you can allow your beer to condition for two weeks after kegging and then are capable of drinking all of it within the subsequent two week window afterwards that it will be in its prime.

For the second dryhop - when adding the first dryhop (loose pellets) during fermentation, suspend the second dryhop in a mesh bag in the top of the fermentor by tying it off with unflavored floss to one of the hooks on your fermentor. When the time comes for the second dryhop, pop the hinges (don't remove lid) of the Anvil to remove the pressure from the floss and allow it to drop into the fermentor.



To avoid clogged poppets - try adding a inline filter on your transfer hose to catch hop debris like in the pic. In my experience the first half gallon or so is the worse - so I use this and when the flow slows down due the filter being blocked by debris I switch to another transfer line without a filter to finish. Since doing this I have not had any clogged poppets and I dry hop loose in fermentor.

 

[Andre3000]

@stickyfinger
The challenge with externally mounted thermometer is that the temp during primary fermentation is warmer in the center of the liquid compared to the edges AND the other side of the fermenter wall. As such, if using a externally mounted thermometer I would consider adjusting the temps in the ferm schedule down 2-3 degrees for the first four days down only. After the first four days the majority of fermentation would be finished with ale yeast and the heat output by fermentation would have subsided and the temp gradient within the liquid should have normalized.

Not trying to challenge you but I have found in general this notion of warmer temps in the center of the wort to be overstated.

I measured several of my fermentations from both the center and an insulated probe on the outside of the carboy (I've since switched to kegs) and found the difference to be less than .5 F whenever I was checking it. YMMV.

 

[isomerization]

Not trying to challenge you but I have found in general this notion of warmer temps in the center of the wort to be overstated.

I measured several of my fermentations from both the center and an insulated probe on the outside of the carboy (I've since switched to kegs) and found the difference to be less than .5 F whenever I was checking it. YMMV.

I will partially agree, during peak fermentation, my Tilt (can’t say exactly where it inside the fermenter though) will register 1-2 F higher than the probe taped on the side of the SS bucket.

I would still agree with @ttuato sdvice though to lower it, just perhaps not the full 3 F.

 

[isomerization]

@ihavenonickname


Split the hops - see my previous post.

Keg hopping sucks, in my opinion, UNLESS you can allow your beer to condition for two weeks after kegging and then are capable of drinking all of it within the subsequent two week window afterwards that it will be in its prime.

For the second dryhop - when adding the first dryhop (loose pellets) during fermentation, suspend the second dryhop in a mesh bag in the top of the fermentor by tying it off with unflavored floss to one of the hooks on your fermentor. When the time comes for the second dryhop, pop the hinges (don't remove lid) of the Anvil to remove the pressure from the floss and allow it to drop into the fermentor.



To avoid clogged poppets - try adding a inline filter on your transfer hose to catch hop debris like in the pic. In my experience the first half gallon or so is the worse - so I use this and when the flow slows down due the filter being blocked by debris I switch to another transfer line without a filter to finish. Since doing this I have not had any clogged poppets and I dry hop loose in fermentor.

I got it off amazon for $15.

View attachment 629857

Are you purging the line at all or just dumping the first “runnings”?

 

[tld6008]

Are you purging the line at all or just dumping the first “runnings”?

I have been surprised at the small if any temperature difference between my Tilt and the external probe (secured by bungee under a large insulating pad). I also find it hard to believe there would be hot spots in the FV with the maelstrom created during active fermentation which is clearly evident using a glass carboy.

 

[Dgallo]

I have been surprised at the small if any temperature difference between my Tilt and the external probe (secured by bungee under a large insulating pad). I also find it hard to believe there would be hot spots in the FV with the maelstrom created during active fermentation which is clearly evident using a glass carboy.

Think of it like your body. Your skin is cooler than your internal temp due to the ambient temperature around you. Same will happen in your fermenter because your glass carboy is a better temperature conductor of the air temp than the beer inside. Depending on the demensions of your fermenter, you will see different temp differences. A shorter wider fermenter will have a bigger change in temp from center to outside than a taller thinner fermenter

 

[ttuato]

Are you purging the line at all or just dumping the first “runnings”?

Dump first runnings

 

[tld6008]

Think of it like your body. Your skin is cooler than your internal temp due to the ambient temperature around you. Same will happen in your fermenter because your glass carboy is a better temperature conductor of the air temp than the beer inside. Depending on the demensions of your fermenter, you will see different temp differences. A shorter wider fermenter will have a bigger change in temp from center to outside than a taller thinner fermenter

I was trying to point out that I see little difference between the internal temp (as recorded by TILT hydrometer) and the FV surface temp (as recorded by insulated Inkbird probe).

 

[Dgallo]

I was trying to point out that I see little difference between the internal temp (as recorded by TILT hydrometer) and the FV surface temp (as recorded by insulated Inkbird probe).

I see a two degree difference for my surface and internal Which for the fermentation drive I do with A24 is the difference between a beautiful ester profile and fusel alcohol. Guess it depends on the equipment

 

[cheesebach]

I was trying to point out that I see little difference between the internal temp (as recorded by TILT hydrometer) and the FV surface temp (as recorded by insulated Inkbird probe).

My experience has been the same. I ferment in a corny keg with the probe attached externally using a blob of plumbers putty. My tilt stays within 1 degree of my set temp even during peak fermentation. The only time the difference is any larger than is when I'm heating/cooling quickly to try to ramp the temp up/down. I'd expect plastic fermenter with bubble wrap and tape to hold the probe would probably not be as accurate though.

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

Yakima has 2019 Galaxy pellets in boys they are going fast.

 

[Dgallo]

Yakima has 2019 Galaxy pellets in boys they are going fast.

Thanks brother. Just grabbed 2 - 8 oz since lbs are gone already. Only 43 1/2lbs left

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

Yeah man sure thing I had a pound in my cart and I got through paypal and someone ganked it, got down on a half pound as well. I have been checking every morning for two weeks on the site lol.

 

[Dgallo]

Yeah man sure thing I had a pound in my cart and I got through paypal and someone ganked it, got down on a half pound as well. I have been checking every morning for two weeks on the site lol.

Now I just need Nelson to come out so that I can do my signature summer NEIPA. T

 

[braindead]

How are you guys carbonating.
I usually do slow carbonation with co2 but struggling with the warmer temps here now and no brew fridge.
Ive never naturally carbed a NEIPA

 

[Dgallo]

How are you guys carbonating.
I usually do slow carbonation with co2 but struggling with the warmer temps here now and no brew fridge.
Ive never naturally carbed a NEIPA

I force carb personally since I’m impatient and do it cold, but if you are warm carbing with a co2 tank your better off naturally carbing your kegs with Krausen or a priming solution. It’s cheaper and will take practically the same amount the time as co2 carbing warm. Brewers friend has a calculator.

 

[isomerization]

They re-upped all Galaxy sizes FYI.

Edit: they gone

 

[Loud Brewing]

so frustrating not to be able to get any galaxy...

 

[ttuato]

so frustrating not to be able to get any galaxy...

They will get lots more shipments

 

[isomerization]

so frustrating not to be able to get any galaxy...

Put an email notification on the pounders.