New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Braufessor]

I would like to know how much haziness 10% of wheat add to this NEIPA, looks gorgeous.

Well, this is a "leftover grain" american(ish) pilsner that had almost the same grain bill.... only 5% wheat instead of 10% and some Vienna added along with golden promise, 2 row and carahell. It used the same amount of hops (but different hops like sterling and Tettnang) - although, all the hops went into the boil at 60-30-15-5 minutes. Lager yeast 2124.

So, I am going to say the impact of 10% wheat is minimal if any.

(although, I do think the INTERACTIONS of oily hops like citra, galaxy, etc. at low whirlpool temps and dry hop along with yeast and protein has got to be what is behind the haziness. So, maybe the wheat component, interacting with the oiliness of certain hops, at low hopping temps, along with interacting with yeast is all contributing together. But, I think it is unlikely that a "particular ingredient" is responsible for any of it in isolation.)

 

[wepeeler]

So I've been doing extract neipas for about a year. Been kegging on day 21 (because that's my brew buddy has been doing for 10+ years, no rhyme or reason), and from initial taste to carbed, I feel the beer gets better during week 4 (about 5-7 days after carbing). Did my first all grain BIAB exactly 13 days ago. I see a lot of guys here are kegging on day 14. In my experience, the beer needs just about another week or 2 to mellow. Is it different with all grain? Would I be fine to keg tomorrow? I could brew more that way

 

[robcj]

So I've been doing extract neipas for about a year. Been kegging on day 21 (because that's my brew buddy has been doing for 10+ years, no rhyme or reason), and from initial taste to carbed, I feel the beer gets better during week 4 (about 5-7 days after carbing). Did my first all grain BIAB exactly 13 days ago. I see a lot of guys here are kegging on day 14. In my experience, the beer needs just about another week or 2 to mellow. Is it different with all grain? Would I be fine to keg tomorrow? I could brew more that way

My experience is different. I keg and drink these beers--and almost all beers but especially hop-forward styles--as soon as possible. I've gone grain to glass for styles like this in as quickly 10 days. (Cold crashing and burst carbing helps!) When I spend this much money on large amounts of late addition and dry hops, the last thing I want is for the hops to mellow! I've never really taken to aging most ales. I've never personally felt that I gained any great advantage from letting beer sit around, especially for a style like NEIPA.

 

[brew703]

@Braufessor I'm not that into the hazy NEIPA's much. I do like them though. I had been thinking of brewing one like you did in post 6655, trying to get a clear/hazy beer vs murky. I like the haziness or whatever you may call it in your WC Session IPA.
If you were to re-brew that version, would you change anything? Hops, grain bill, water profile?
I'll add this one to the list. It will probably be 2 months before I can brew it as I have several in the pipeline ready to brew.

Also, have you brewed a version of your NEIPA using lactose?

 

[stickyfinger]

@Braufessor
Also, have you brewed a version of your NEIPA using lactose?

I've done a couple of lactose versions of neipa. one a session version and one a milkshake version. i liked them both. the session one was not as thin as it would have been without the lactose. i used 1/2 lb/5G batch. I think I'd like to try glycerol next time though. It is perceived as a lot sweeter than lactose per given mass and could maybe lend a little more body.

 

[TimmyWit]

This was a fun one. Galaxy, Equinot, Azacca & Sorachi Ace w/ zest of Meyer Lemon in the whirlpool and blood orange puree at the tail end of fermentation.

 

[stickyfinger]

How many of you guys are shaking/inverting/swirling the keg while serving these beers? I've done this in the past but stopped for awhile. Recently, I had a split batch that I fermented in kegs and closed-transferred to serving kegs. Both tasted very good but were starting to clarify and lost a little hoppiness. I decided to invert the kegs. The results was super hazy beer again that reminded me a lot of when you roll around a can of commercial NEIPA. It really picked up the beers some. I'm wondering if I shouldn't start inverting the keg before serving from now on. It workes best if you let the keg rest for like 10 mins before serving though or you get some hop sludge in the bottom of the glass.

 

[KrunkMasterKyle]

How many of you guys are shaking/inverting/swirling the keg while serving these beers? I've done this in the past but stopped for awhile. Recently, I had a split batch that I fermented in kegs and closed-transferred to serving kegs. Both tasted very good but were starting to clarify and lost a little hoppiness. I decided to invert the kegs. The results was super hazy beer again that reminded me a lot of when you roll around a can of commercial NEIPA. It really picked up the beers some. I'm wondering if I shouldn't start inverting the keg before serving from now on. It workes best if you let the keg rest for like 10 mins before serving though or you get some hop sludge in the bottom of the glass.

I can't say I've ever done this on purpose. I have brought a keg of NEIPA to a friends but it was keg hopped (in screen). The shaking in the hour car ride really stirred some hop particles back up, but not in a good way. Now I know if I'm brewing for an event not to keg hop or to transfer to another serving keg before transporting.

 

[TimmyWit]

How many of you guys are shaking/inverting/swirling the keg while serving these beers? I've done this in the past but stopped for awhile. Recently, I had a split batch that I fermented in kegs and closed-transferred to serving kegs. Both tasted very good but were starting to clarify and lost a little hoppiness. I decided to invert the kegs. The results was super hazy beer again that reminded me a lot of when you roll around a can of commercial NEIPA. It really picked up the beers some. I'm wondering if I shouldn't start inverting the keg before serving from now on. It workes best if you let the keg rest for like 10 mins before serving though or you get some hop sludge in the bottom of the glass.

I think what you're talking about is what makes this one of the trickier styles to brew. I have pushed the limits on these beers and it seems that the higher you go with hops and unmalted grains, the more problems you have. I always go back to the Scott Janish theory regarding proteins and polyphenols causing the haze. I have started building my recipes with that theory in mind and my beers have went from murky to pleasantly hazy and I have had less problems with things such as "hop burn".

For a while, I felt like the amount of hops I was adding kept increasing and I was taking the typical 'Murican approach of "more is better". Lately, I have been trying to abide by some rules which are somewhat arbitrary at this point but seem to be working - 1.5 oz hops per gallon in the boil (to include whirlpool) & 1 oz per gallon dry hop. I also use whirlfloc & keep my unmalted grains ~10% to keep the protein in check. So far, the issues I have had with beers being too murky at first or dropping out completely as you're describing have been fixed. Since my latest recipes have been stable I will likely increase my ratios a bit but I don't think there is a clear cut solution. We want to get the most flavor/aromatics without having issues and it will vary with the grist and hop bill. I feel like if it is too murky to begin with or stuff is dropping out in a short amount of time, best thing to do is to back off the hops and/or high protein/unmalted grains. On the flip, if you have a stable hazy beer, you might get away with increasing the hops. It's all about finding that perfect medium where you have an amazing aroma but the beer is reasonably stable.

Wish I had a better understanding of this stuff but this is the approach I have been taking lately and I have been happy with the results.

 

[YYCEric]

Thanks everyone,

Fairly new to brewing (5th batch). Info in thread was awesome! Thanks Braufessor and everyone who contributed!

View attachment 575455

 

[PeteSeattle]

Ok, so after reading this thread I went ahead and brewed one. But I went overboard and did a little over 15% oats for a 5 gallon batch. But sakes alive ... I’ve never seen a whirlpool almost foam over (5 gallons in a 10 gallon kettle). Should’ve used a foam inhibitor and less oats. But man, that wort was very hazy transferring to the conical. Preemptive action ... switched from air lock to blowoff tube.

Edit: I guess I’m in the correct range for oats. Has anyone ever had a problem with wort foaming over during whirlpool?

 

[Braufessor]

Ok, so after reading this thread I went ahead and brewed one. But I went overboard and did a little over 15% oats for a 5 gallon batch. But sakes alive ... I’ve never seen a whirlpool almost foam over (5 gallons in a 10 gallon kettle). Should’ve used a foam inhibitor and less oats. But man, that wort was very hazy transferring to the conical. Preemptive action ... switched from air lock to blowoff tube.

Edit: I guess I’m in the correct range for oats. Has anyone ever had a problem with wort foaming over during whirlpool?

Only problem I usually have with foaming is at the beginning of boil. I guess sometimes if I dump a lot of hops in right at flame out..... that can sometimes foam up..... but, once the heat is off and it is chilling, or the wort is cooling - never have foaming problems then.

 

[PeteSeattle]

Only problem I usually have with foaming is at the beginning of boil. I guess sometimes if I dump a lot of hops in right at flame out..... that can sometimes foam up..... but, once the heat is off and it is chilling, or the wort is cooling - never have foaming problems then.

I’m guessing it’s the hops. I was afraid I created some loss but not much because I did factor in some loss since this was my first time brewing a NEIPA. I did fill my 5 gallon conical and hit all my numbers. The wort looked like unfiltered orange juice-ish. Now the wait.

 

[JohnConnor]

Not that it matters a great deal, but I know people are always wondering about "what makes NEIPA's hazy?" Just thought I would post a rather interesting recent beer..... Basically, I wanted to make a version of this that was really more of a west coast/session american pale ale. So, I did the following....

Water:
175:50 Sulfate to Chloride

Grain Bill (1.048 OG):
40% 2 Row
40% Golden Promise
10% White Wheat
7% Corn Sugar
3% Carahell (10L)

Hops (35 IBU's from 30 minute and 5 minute additions):
23 IBU Centennial @ 30 min.
1/2 oz. each of Centennial/Galaxy/Citra at 5 minutes
1/2 oz. each of Centennial/Galaxy/Citra after chilling wort started
1/2 oz. each of Centennial/Galaxy/Citra Dry hop - Day 6 or 7.... after fermentation basically finished.

Yeast:
1968.... .this yeast drops out like a rock and leaves crystal clear beers in a relatively short period of time.

Used Irish Moss
Cold Crashed before transferring to serving Keg.
Brewed it a month ago....... Been sitting in kegerator undisturbed for past couple weeks. And here it is...... suspiciously looking like a NE IPA.

So..... things that people often attribute haziness to were not done in this beer:
* Used a VERY flocculent yeast
* No flaked grains
* No dry hop early in fermentation
* Cold Crashed
* Used Irish Moss

What remained the same???
* Fairly high proportion of oily hops late/whirlpool/Dry hop (Citra/Galaxy)
* Lower temp whirlpool addition
* ..... That is about it.

I don't really care that much about the haziness of these beers..... but, I thought it was interesting that the beer came out like this in spite of the absence of a lot of the "necessary" NE IPA ingredients/strategies....

Oh - by the way - the beer turned out great. Definitely a drinker.

View attachment 574326

Just as another data point, I brewed a hoppy blonde. 91% 2-row/9% carahell. I didn't even whirlpool or hop stand. I added a dose at FO and chilled. Into the carboy crystal clear. Added 3 oz as a dry hop. Haze exactly like the beer pictured here. You absolutely do not need flaked anything for haze. I'm guessing if I upped the dry hop even more, I'd get more of the opaque milky look so many are after.

 

[danszabrew]

Just made my first attempt at this one..
Here’s what I used:

Oyl052 -2L starter
8lbs 2 row
2lbs marris otter
1.5lbs flaked oats
1lb white wheat
.5lb flaked barley
.25lb honey malt

@60 .5 oz warrior
@160 -
3oz citra
2oz mosaic
1oz simcoe

1.060 OG
1.013 FG

Dry hop day 2-
3oz simcoe
2oz Amarillo
1oz Denali

This one turned out really good.. definitely the best of the style I’ve made so far

Thanks op for the recipe!

 

[Hannabrew]

Regarding Haze formation, I've had the opposite experience. My NEIPAs tend to clear quite a bit after the kegs cool.

I do massive whirlpools, dry hop 24 hours into fermentation as well as at spunding time (so both DH are during active fermentation). I always use wheat and oats.

I do use whirlfloc still and ensure I have fairly clear wort into the fermenter. I use BtB but have also purposely left it out in this style and still, they clear.

The one other factor is I use the CBDS in my kegs so I wonder how much of a role they play. Obviously if I swirl the keg a bit it's hazy again.

 

[stickyfinger]

Compared with someone who draws from the bottom of the keg, the CBDS IPA is going to be a LOT clearer. I haven't done a side by side, but it just makes sense that drawing from the bottom of the keg you are going to constantly be pulling out the yeast and hops that are slowly settling out of suspension vs pulling the constantly clearing beer from the top of the keg. It's debatable what is better. Some seem to like it clearer and some cloudier.

 

[bigbud78]

Regarding Haze formation, I've had the opposite experience. My NEIPAs tend to clear quite a bit after the kegs cool.

I do massive whirlpools, dry hop 24 hours into fermentation as well as at spunding time (so both DH are during active fermentation). I always use wheat and oats.

I do use whirlfloc still and ensure I have fairly clear wort into the fermenter. I use BtB but have also purposely left it out in this style and still, they clear.

The one other factor is I use the CBDS in my kegs so I wonder how much of a role they play. Obviously if I swirl the keg a bit it's hazy again.

Ive been searching for answers, as per my post above. I think that this is completely the issue I'm having, everything is falling out and getting poured in the first week or two for me. My friend uses 9L kegs and his 2nd keg of neipa is always much superior to the second half of my 19L keg.

I tried bottling a couple and although they did oxidize a bit, when my keg was clearing and the taste dropping off the bottles were still hazy after being handled.

I think 9L kegs might be a better option for this style or drawing off the top and giving the keg a shake before pouring.

 

[cheesebach]

Ive been searching for answers, as per my post above. I think that this is completely the issue I'm having, everything is falling out and getting poured in the first week or two for me. My friend uses 9L kegs and his 2nd keg of neipa is always much superior to the second half of my 19L keg.

I tried bottling a couple and although they did oxidize a bit, when my keg was clearing and the taste dropping off the bottles were still hazy after being handled.

I think 9L kegs might be a better option for this style or drawing off the top and giving the keg a shake before pouring.

Which yeast are you using in these beers? If you're not using WY1318 and a long-lasting haze is what you're after, give that one a try. I don't necessarily think that it is yeast in suspension that is the source of the haze, but yeast choice certainly plays a role in how long it sticks around. I've never had a WY1318 fermented NEIPA clear, and I've even had one stick around in the keg for a little over 2 months. WLP095 seems to clear significantly at around 5-6 weeks in the keg, and TYB vermont ale yeast was somewhere in between those two. I have my first one using WLP066 going now that I'm expecting will be similar to WY1318 in terms of haze stability.

 

[degivens]

Which yeast are you using in these beers? If you're not using WY1318 and a long-lasting haze is what you're after, give that one a try. I don't necessarily think that it is yeast in suspension that is the source of the haze, but yeast choice certainly plays a role in how long it sticks around. I've never had a WY1318 fermented NEIPA clear, and I've even had one stick around in the keg for a little over 2 months. WLP095 seems to clear significantly at around 5-6 weeks in the keg, and TYB vermont ale yeast was somewhere in between those two. I have my first one using WLP066 going now that I'm expecting will be similar to WY1318 in terms of haze stability.

Get ready to be underwhelmed by WLP066. Got that recently as a substitute for 1318 because my local place didn’t have any in stock. It’s not the same by a long shot. Less fruity yeast character and much more attenuation.

 

[stickyfinger]

I used 1272 in comparison with 1318 and couldn't tell the difference given my process and recipe. i'd use 1272 in a heartbeat.

 

[crusader1612]

Anyone have white labs yeast recommendations?
Wlp002/007?

 

[stickyfinger]

Anyone have white labs yeast recommendations?
Wlp002/007?

095 is pretty good.

 

[Hannabrew]

Which yeast are you using in these beers? If you're not using WY1318 and a long-lasting haze is what you're after, give that one a try. I don't necessarily think that it is yeast in suspension that is the source of the haze, but yeast choice certainly plays a role in how long it sticks around. I've never had a WY1318 fermented NEIPA clear, and I've even had one stick around in the keg for a little over 2 months. WLP095 seems to clear significantly at around 5-6 weeks in the keg, and TYB vermont ale yeast was somewhere in between those two. I have my first one using WLP066 going now that I'm expecting will be similar to WY1318 in terms of haze stability.

I'm exclusively 1318 with this style and they clear for me

 

[bigbud78]

I started off using 007 but I never cared for it, I have been using TYB vermont for a while and its good, had a batch throw off some funky flavours which I actually liked so kept it separate and use it in pales.

I'm not personally bothered by what the beer looks like, I just find it loses a lot of its flavour when it starts clearing up.

 

[cheesebach]

I'm exclusively 1318 with this style and they clear for me

What is your typical dry hop schedule? Also, do you use whirlfloc?

 

[Hannabrew]

What is your typical dry hop schedule? Also, do you use whirlfloc?

Check post #6676

 

[MrBlackrock]

Im using a Fast Ferment. I would like to know when would you remove the first thrub while fermenting ?? I feel like leaving the hops in there for more than a week will impact taste and color ? I usually dry hop at 24-36 hours while high krausen and remove the bottom after about a week

Should i leave it longer?

 

[tld6008]

Im using a Fast Ferment. I would like to know when would you remove the first thrub while fermenting ?? I feel like leaving the hops in there for more than a week will impact taste and color ? I usually dry hop at 24-36 hours while high krausen and remove the bottom after about a week

Should i leave it longer?

I never remove the hops, longest I leave them is 10-12 days though. No negative affect that I can determine.

 

[cheesebach]

Check post #6676

Seems like the biggest difference in our processes that might affect haze stability is the use of whirlfloc. The only time I’ve used it in a NEIPA (first attempt at the style), I noticed that the wort was pretty clear going into the fermenter. Every time since then, I’ve left it out and the wort going into the fermenter is hazy. That first beer with whirlfloc did have a decent dry hop haze after fermentation, but was by far the clearest beer in the style that I’ve made. It also used WLP095 in that batch (which I’ve found clears sooner than WY1318), but it was much less hazy than the times I’ve used WLP095 since then.