New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Dgallo]

Should be more then enough.

Was it a reused yeast? How did the fermentation go?
Perhaps somehow this yeast didnt flocculate as well and later in the cold crash all the goodness got dragged out.

A24 new pitch and excellent fermentation. Don’t get me wrong flavor and aroma we’re still good but it just dropped clear. Just quite non typical for me and all I did was remove flaked grains

 

[beervoid]

A24 new pitch and excellent fermentation. Don’t get me wrong flavor and aroma we’re still good but it just dropped clear. Just quite non typical for me and all I did was remove flaked grains

I know the Tree House Julius I had sitting in the fridge which was about 2 months after canning was pretty clear as well.
Been brewing plenty beers without flaked stuff in them that stayed plenty hazy but im also dry hopping at a higher rate.

 

[thehaze]

What are your thoughts on long lasting haze resulting from high whirlpool loads below flame out temps? I’m thinking hop oils or polyphenols or something that is normally flashed off at higher temps remains in the wort and then reacts with proteins in the grain (flaked not required but can clearly increase haziness to absurd levels a la oat malt).

I've personally noticed that whirlpooling at 160F and below with at least 6-7 oz hops does produce a perma-haze, even after 1 month from packaging. Dry hopping also enhances that effect.

 

[wepeeler]

2 Row
Dextrin Malt
2-4% crystal malt of choice

That’s it

And it stays hazy for 6 weeks in keg? Can't say I believe that. I did a pale ale with basically the same base + wheat malt and that cleared up within 2 weeks.

 

[leesmith]

A recipe and a process are two different things.

A given set of ingredients may work for one process and may not for another.

Without knowing someone’s particular process (in detail) from grain to glass our assumptions mean nothing....it would help if people provided exact details of process.

Couch has.

I’ve tried his methods and can say the beloved haze will stick around.

And I don’t use fining agents on the cold side like he does but my beer is perfectly clear before dry hopping. I do use whirlfloc on the hot side though.

I use malted wheat.

 

[couchsending]

And it stays hazy for 6 weeks in keg? Can't say I believe that. I did a pale ale with basically the same base + wheat malt and that cleared up within 2 weeks.

Yeah I’m totally lying

You think Treehouse is lying when they say a certain grain bill is just Pale malt and dextrin. Or when Trillium lists a grain bill with just pale and Honey Malt. Or a Hill farmstead grain bill that’s just Pale and caramel malt? And all those specific beers will never drop out..

I don’t use cop side fining agents unless I use an American Ale yeast but I will lager a beer at 30-32 for a week or so to drop excess polyphenols.

 

[wepeeler]

Yeah I’m totally lying

You think Treehouse is lying when they say a certain grain bill is just Pale malt and dextrin. Or when Trillium lists a grain bill with just pale and Honey Malt. Or a Hill farmstead grain bill that’s just Pale and caramel malt? And all those specific beers will never drop out..

I don’t use cop side fining agents unless I use an American Ale yeast but I will lager a beer at 30-32 for a week or so to drop excess polyphenols.

No, I don't believe the grain bills are as simple as what those breweries post. TH is super tight lipped about their recipes, regardless of what they post in their Curiosity series. Personally, I think it depends more on hop rates/amount and yeast. I still have a lot to learn, but my experiences seem to be in line with others: flaked adjuncts seem to hold the haze better than when they aren't used. Your findings that they aren't necessary seem to work for you. I just haven't had the same luck.

 

[ihavenonickname]

It would be awesome if some of the major contributors on here (you know who you are) would outline the details of their favorite recipe and process on their system thus far. Some of you have been doing incredible work dialing in awesome beers and it would serve as an “update the state of the art” of sorts. Maybe OP would even be so kind as to reference them on his OP

 

[kevink]

trying my first dry hop after soft crash tonight, exciting! Janish's new book mentions dry hopping after a cold crash several times, so I thought I'd finally try it. soft crashed a wlp001 ipa and then held 2 days at 60F. dry hopping tonight and will hold 2 days and then cold crash and keg. excited to see if i can tell the difference.

Please report back. For the longest time, many people believed that you should dry hop when there was still a few points of gravity left so the yeast can "scrub" the O2 out, and now there's this idea. I swear, if something is said in a book or on a website (not a forum), it becomes the new thing. I am not knocking it. I'm going to try it. It's just so strange how the new trends start.

 

[RCope]

I too read Janish's book and just added my last dry hop (2 oz each of Citra and Mosaic) after soft crashing to 58 for 2 days. I don't have the ability to dump yeast (Ssbrew bucket), but I would if I could. I'm going to let it sit for one day at 58 then cold crash for two days before kegging. I also added a preferm and late ferm dry hop. Just call me a lemming. I'm expecting a juice bomb

 

[stickyfinger]

I too read Janish's book and just added my last dry hop (2 oz each of Citra and Mosaic) after soft crashing to 58 for 2 days. I don't have the ability to dump yeast (Ssbrew bucket), but I would if I could. I'm going to let it sit for one day at 58 then cold crash for two days before kegging. I also added a preferm and late ferm dry hop. Just call me a lemming. I'm expecting a juice bomb

i liked what one of the brewers said about soft crashing. if he drops the yeast before dryhop, the following dry hop keeps the beer hazy and hoppy for a lot longer. i just had doubts the flavor would be as good as adding during primary...

i also was interested in his discussion of hop stand character being important and that it can be swamped by overly aggressive dry hopping. he specifically mentioned Ekuanot as a great hop stand hop, and that rings true for me. You can make a great IPA with only Ekuanot in the hop stand and no dry hops. i’m also pumped to do a mosaic hop stand beer with galaxy dry hop (based off of comments made in the book)

 

[Northern_Brewer]

You think Treehouse is lying when they say a certain grain bill is just Pale malt and dextrin. Or when Trillium lists a grain bill with just pale and Honey Malt. Or a Hill farmstead grain bill that’s just Pale and caramel malt? And all those specific beers will never drop out..

I've not really got a dog in this fight - I'm sure some processes can lead to pretty stable haze with simple grists, but at the same time I bet some commercial breweries are using - ahem - "processing aids" in their beers to meet their commercial requirements. Stuff like the propylene glycol alginate that is used for head retention in many commercial lagers.

 

[couchsending]

Tried to find the oldest hoppy beer on tap. This was a 5% Pale Ale that I made three batches of between three different yeasts. This one was 1272 which was the worst so it’s still around, need to dump it tomorrow to make room for the next round. This beer does have 5% Malted Wheat although at that amount I don’t think it’s contributing anything to haze stability. I will add a bit of wheat to lower ABV beers. Never for anything over a pale ale. This was kegged on April 6th and hasn’t been moved since so approaching 9 weeks.

Hopshot 15 IBU@ 60
1oz Citra @ 10
2oz Citra WP (170)
1oz Loral WP

DH after fermentation and soft crash to 60 for 36 hours and pulling as much yeast as possible

3oz Citra
1oz Loral
1oz I7

1272 @ 68

60 Ca, 60Na, 8mg, 100 So4, 135 Cl

70% Rahr 2 Row
20% Weyermann Vienna
5% Mecca White Wheat
5% Briess Carapils

I don’t have anything else that’s more than a month old that’s hoppy that I didn’t fine...

 

[couchsending]

I've not really got a dog in this fight - I'm sure some processes can lead to pretty stable haze with simple grists, but at the same time I bet some commercial breweries are using - ahem - "processing aids" in their beers to meet their commercial requirements. Stuff like the propylene glycol alginate that is used for head retention in many commercial lagers.

A lot are using Tetra or Hexa hop for head retention (can’t remember which is which) and I’m sure plenty are using Tanal A.

 

[rickyrich]

What's everyone's opinion on the best strain for this style? We should create a poll. So far I have used GY054, A38 JUICE, A20 CITRUS, 1318, and I have WLP095 BURLINGTON on deck. I was super disappointed in 1318 when I used it. That was the first time I ever tried using a whirfloc tablet in a NEIPA though. I didn't get any haze. It was practically clear and I used a ton of oats! Great tasting beer...Just not hazy! I really want to try LONDON FOG.

So far, I'd have to say that JUICE has been my fave. Thoughts on WLP095? If it's anything close to 1318, I might be bitter. Thanks in advance!

 

[Dgallo]

What's everyone's opinion on the best strain for this style? We should create a poll. So far I have used GY054, A38 JUICE, A20 CITRUS, 1318, and I have WLP095 BURLINGTON on deck. I was super disappointed in 1318 when I used it. That was the first time I ever tried using a whirfloc tablet in a NEIPA though. I didn't get any haze. It was practically clear and I used a ton of oats! Great tasting beer...Just not hazy! I really want to try LONDON FOG.

So far, I'd have to say that JUICE has been my fave. Thoughts on WLP095? If it's anything close to 1318, I might be bitter. Thanks in advance!

I will always stand by A24 but I do certainly switch it up. But A24 is my favorite

 

[Loud Brewing]

Only major difference in any of my process is a week ago I moved the keg to my local beverage center because they allowed me to can 12 -16oz cans of this beer and my stout.

Off topic, but did you increase the carbonation prior to canning? Seems like most beers need a boost if kept in can for more than a few days. I'm thinking of picking up a beer gun and a long section of beer line in order to raise c02 in solution without excess foam while filling/canning.

 

[Dgallo]

Off topic, but did you increase the carbonation prior to canning? Seems like most beers need a boost if kept in can for more than a few days. I'm thinking of picking up a beer gun and a long section of beer line in order to raise c02 in solution without excess foam while filling/canning.

This was my first attempt canning so I just l left it as is. I sent a few out on trades with the FOTHB so I’ll let you know if the folks who got them thought the carb was low. Thanks for the heads up. I’ll keep that in mind next time!

 

[tld6008]

Tried to find the oldest hoppy beer on tap. This was a 5% Pale Ale that I made three batches of between three different yeasts. This one was 1272 which was the worst so it’s still around, need to dump it tomorrow to make room for the next round. This beer does have 5% Malted Wheat although at that amount I don’t think it’s contributing anything to haze stability. I will add a bit of wheat to lower ABV beers. Never for anything over a pale ale. This was kegged on April 6th and hasn’t been moved since so approaching 9 weeks.

Hopshot 15 IBU@ 60
1oz Citra @ 10
2oz Citra WP (170)
1oz Loral WP

DH after fermentation and soft crash to 60 for 36 hours and pulling as much yeast as possible

3oz Citra
1oz Loral
1oz I7

1272 @ 68

60 Ca, 60Na, 8mg, 100 So4, 135 Cl

70% Rahr 2 Row
20% Weyermann Vienna
5% Mecca White Wheat
5% Briess Carapils

View attachment 630723

I don’t have anything else that’s more than a month old that’s hoppy that I didn’t fine...

That picture looks very tasty!

 

[Loud Brewing]

This was my first attempt canning so I just l left it as is. I sent a few out on trades with the FOTHB so I’ll let you know if the folks who got them thought the carb was low. Thanks for the heads up. I’ll keep that in mind next time!

I also just started canning and have only filled about a dozen so far with mixed results. My normal sop is to force carb at roughly 15psi, and I didn't want to pull the keg out to boost carbonation before canning so I just went for it like you. I definitely noticed a flatter beer after filling.
Next time I will force carb to 25psi and can the entire keg, using cold wet cans and a beer gun. I hope this helps my issues, I need to talk with someone who has more experience home canning.

 

[Dgallo]

I also just started canning and have only filled about a dozen so far with mixed results. My normal sop is to force carb at roughly 15psi, and I didn't want to pull the keg out to boost carbonation before canning so I just went for it like you. I definitely noticed a flatter beer after filling.
Next time I will force carb to 25psi and can the entire keg, using cold wet cans and a beer gun. I hope this helps my issues, I need to talk with someone who has more experience home canning.

@ttuato sent me his beer in cans so I know he had experience

 

[isomerization]

Tried to find the oldest hoppy beer on tap. This was a 5% Pale Ale that I made three batches of between three different yeasts. This one was 1272 which was the worst so it’s still around, need to dump it tomorrow to make room for the next round. This beer does have 5% Malted Wheat although at that amount I don’t think it’s contributing anything to haze stability. I will add a bit of wheat to lower ABV beers. Never for anything over a pale ale. This was kegged on April 6th and hasn’t been moved since so approaching 9 weeks.

Hopshot 15 IBU@ 60
1oz Citra @ 10
2oz Citra WP (170)
1oz Loral WP

DH after fermentation and soft crash to 60 for 36 hours and pulling as much yeast as possible

3oz Citra
1oz Loral
1oz I7

1272 @ 68

60 Ca, 60Na, 8mg, 100 So4, 135 Cl

70% Rahr 2 Row
20% Weyermann Vienna
5% Mecca White Wheat
5% Briess Carapils

View attachment 630723

I don’t have anything else that’s more than a month old that’s hoppy that I didn’t fine...

Is it worth dropping the yeast if you can’t dump it (aka no conical)? I would assume yes if you can carefully rack after dry hopping without stirring up yeast/sediment, but figured I’d ask.

Please report back. For the longest time, many people believed that you should dry hop when there was still a few points of gravity left so the yeast can "scrub" the O2 out, and now there's this idea. I swear, if something is said in a book or on a website (not a forum), it becomes the new thing. I am not knocking it. I'm going to try it. It's just so strange how the new trends start.

I think it’s important to note that maintaining head pressure in the fermenter is (likely) critical to avoid oxidation during these temp drops.

 

[Dgallo]

Just realized a slight contributor to the clearing of my beer so quickly, I used 50% of the dryhop as cryo hops. Doesn’t explain all the floc but certainly contributed

 

[kevink]

I think it’s important to note that maintaining head pressure in the fermenter is (likely) critical to avoid oxidation during these temp drops.

Oh, definitely. I would never crash without positive CO2 pressure.

 

[couchsending]

I also just started canning and have only filled about a dozen so far with mixed results. My normal sop is to force carb at roughly 15psi, and I didn't want to pull the keg out to boost carbonation before canning so I just went for it like you. I definitely noticed a flatter beer after filling.
Next time I will force carb to 25psi and can the entire keg, using cold wet cans and a beer gun. I hope this helps my issues, I need to talk with someone who has more experience home canning.

The big boys will carbonate to closer to 2.7psi when canning.

 

[marchuk96]

A lot are using Tetra or Hexa hop for head retention (can’t remember which is which) and I’m sure plenty are using Tanal A.

I think we also have to keep in mind the final ph and ppm of minerals in your beer also play a significant role in haze and foam stability in our beers...

 

[couchsending]

Is it worth dropping the yeast if you can’t dump it (aka no conical)? I would assume yes if you can carefully rack after dry hopping without stirring up yeast/sediment, but figured I’d ask.



I think it’s important to note that maintaining head pressure in the fermenter is (likely) critical to avoid oxidation during these temp drops.

Honestly I don’t know about dropping the yeast... I try to get as much out of the beer as possible before adding dry hops. I have a bunch of conicals and rarely have made a hoppy beer in anything else. The aromatics improved exponentially when I started doing that. You listen to any great hoppy brewer and they’ll tell you something similar. The more yeast in suspension the more of the precious hop compounds will get dragged down. It’s just a balancing act of crash temp to get yeast out, yet still warm enough for good extraction in a shorter time frame. I think as homebrewers with small batches we have an advantage. You could crash to 50 to get a lot of yeast to flocc and warm the beer back up to say 60 in a short time as the amount of liquid is so small. Not as easy on a 15-30bbl batch.

I think the hop character at 58-62 is better than that when dry hopping warm. It seems like you’re less likely to get the “sweaty” notes of dry hopping at say 68-72. I haven’t gone much lower than 58 but I might try it soon. You still get all the fruity characteristics. Just less of the weird rotting/overripe stanky character I associate with dry hopping at fermentation temps and especially during active fermentation with a lot of yeast present.

Definitely head pressure at all times after fermentation. I don’t have a unitank (shows up
Thursday!!!!) but I put a pressure transfer fitting that has a PRV on it on before terminal. It’s hooked up to a Co2 manifold as well. By removing the blow off and putting on the transfer fitting I can maintain somewhere around 2-3psi which is enough to maintain pressure to 58 while soft crashing. I pull it to add dry hops with a funnel through the 1.5” tc port but then put it back on, purge a few times and maintain as much pressure as possible while dry hopping and then crashing to 43ish. It’s as low as I can go without having to keep the Co2 on up all the time.

 

[couchsending]

I think we also have to keep in mind the final ph and ppm of minerals in your beer also play a significant role in haze and foam stability in our beers...

I don’t think either of those variables have that much to do with foam stability. If they do it’s down the line. Has more to do with low molecular weight proteins generated during the mash and things that take place during fermentation than anything else.

 

[marchuk96]

I don’t think either of those variables have that much to do with foam stability. If they do it’s down the line. Has more to do with low molecular weight proteins generated during the mash and things that take place during fermentation than anything else.

PH is determined by ppm of minerals...so yeah...https://www.mbaa.com/meetings/archive/2013/proceedings/Pages/09.aspx

 

[couchsending]

PH is determined by ppm of minerals...so yeah...https://www.mbaa.com/meetings/archive/2013/proceedings/Pages/09.aspx

Sort of... It’s not necessarily the ppm of the minerals but the relation between the minerals that raise and lower pH.

But that article you quoted literally looks at one variable. There are more important variables that go into foam formation and retention than simply pH and mineral content. I could make you a beer with almost no mineral content other than what’s derived from malt and a much lower final pH that has better foam formation and retention than one with a much higher mineral content and a higher pH.

 

[BeerFst]

I think the hop character at 58-62 is better than that when dry hopping warm. It seems like you’re less likely to get the “sweaty” notes of dry hopping at say 68-72. I haven’t gone much lower than 58 but I might try it soon. You still get all the fruity characteristics. Just less of the weird rotting/overripe stanky character I associate with dry hopping at fermentation temps and especially during active fermentation with a lot of yeast present.
.

Just did a amarillo Citra (no flaked) using imperial voyager and my main complaint has been that same overripe taste and aroma and I definitely did my bio hop at ferm temp (73) and then a second dh several weeks later at basement temp (75ish) and it improved things but it’s still there. I had figured it was the a05 since it was my first time using it but this is also the first time i dry hopped that warm. Previous hazys were all using juice at a constant 65.

I had much better results with a Citra Galaxy that was second dry hopped in a keg completely off the yeast after crashing the fermentation keg to 32, so I’m totally on board with your process. I’ve just gotten lazy of late doing ferm and serv in the same keg using a janish diptube filter or cbds

 

[couchsending]

Just did a amarillo Citra (no flaked) using imperial voyager and my main complaint has been that same overripe taste and aroma and I definitely did my bio hop at ferm temp (73) and then a second dh several weeks later at basement temp (75ish) and it improved things but it’s still there. I had figured it was the a05 since it was my first time using it but this is also the first time i dry hopped that warm. Previous hazys were all using juice at a constant 65.

I had much better results with a Citra Galaxy that was second dry hopped in a keg completely off the yeast after crashing the fermentation keg to 32, so I’m totally on board with your process. I’ve just gotten lazy of late doing ferm and serv in the same keg using a janish diptube filter or cbds

Voyager is 1469, Timothy Taylor. I haven’t used it in a while. I’ve heard you can get some great stone fruit character from it but it’s weird in that the Krausen stays around forever. Yeast floccs well eventually but I don’t know if top cropping it would help the krausen dissipate faster or not. I think once you figure out how to use it, it could make some great hoppy beers.

 

[BeerFst]

Voyager is 1469, Timothy Taylor. I haven’t used it in a while. I’ve heard you can get some great stone fruit character from it but it’s weird in that the Krausen stays around forever. Yeast floccs well eventually but I don’t know if top cropping it would help the krausen dissipate faster or not. I think once you figure out how to use it, it could make some great hoppy beers.

Yeah it’s not bad, def hazy. I tried to keep raising the temp for the first few days from 68 to 73 and I think I would just peg it at one temp and leave it, same as how I would do juice. It definitely has some yeast character but it’s not as prominent as juice. The starter for juice smells like it’s pre hopped, this didn’t. I overbuilt so I’ll give it a shot again. I was intrigued when it got “released” in spring for the stone fruit but it’s not crazy obvious.

On it being 1469, I had read that four square (also a05) was 1469 but somewhere imperial noted it was similar but not quite. Maybe it just mutated slightly. I will say it way way way over attenuated. Supposed to be low attenuator and was expecting 1.018, dropped all the way to 1.008. The extra abv was why it needed the second dry hop. Mash temp was a tad low 147/148 ish but I was shooting for 149 to combat the expected lower attenuation

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Is it worth dropping the yeast if you can’t dump it (aka no conical)? I would assume yes if you can carefully rack after dry hopping without stirring up yeast/sediment, but figured I’d ask.

I ferment in cornys and crash the yeast before dry hopping and then again before transfer to serving keg. Yeah I don't see why you wouldn't get the same effect, whether yeast is dumped or not. I've noticed brighter aroma/flavors since I started doing this. I use the CBDS in my fermenting kegs to pull from the top.

 

[leesmith]

60 Ca, 60Na, 8mg, 100 So4, 135 Cl
...

How are you liking the salt that high?

 

[stickyfinger]

How are you liking the salt that high?

one of the brewers in janish's book also mentioned that he likes to add salt (sodium chloride) to his beers. i'd never really thought about upping the sodium level. could be interesting. easy to add some to the finished beer in the glass as a preliminary test.

i remember jamil told a story about a guy he met in a bar one time. they guy was older and said whenever he had a beer that didn't taste great, he'd toss in several sprinkles of salt and it would taste better!

 

[leesmith]

one of the brewers in janish's book also mentioned that he likes to add salt (sodium chloride) to his beers. i'd never really thought about upping the sodium level. could be interesting. easy to add some to the finished beer in the glass as a preliminary test.

i remember jamil told a story about a guy he met in a bar one time. they guy was older and said whenever he had a beer that didn't taste great, he'd toss in several sprinkles of salt and it would taste better!

I’ve been upping the amounts i use slowly to about 40ppm so far....certainly changes the flavor slightly...seems to accentuate earthier and malty flavors and rounds out the hop flavor. And yes different than just adding calcium chloride.

 

[Dgallo]

I’ve been upping the amounts i use slowly to about 40ppm so far....certainly changes the flavor slightly...seems to accentuate earthier and malty flavors and rounds out the hop flavor. And yes different than just adding calcium chloride.

I read an article that claimed that many breweries have their na ppm close to 100 without any detectable salt flavor. I upped mine to 73 ppm last batch without any ill effect and possibly an inhanced hop profile (changed a few things last batch so can’t say for certain)

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

I got a stout over 120ish by accident. 2 people, and myself, mentioned a "soy sauce" sence. No triple digits anymore. I always remind myself of Yoopers words about adding chemicals, "Less is more."

 

[couchsending]

Keep in mind Malt adds sodium. Around 40ppm for say your average IPA grain bill give or take. 60 is as high as I ever gone with NaCl additions. Next round I’m brewing the same mid 6s IPA with the same yeast, grain and hops, and vastly different water profiles to see which I prefer. Already got the yeast variable finished. Pretty much settled on a grain bill now need to eliminate water, or start to at least.