New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA
- Thread starter Braufessor
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To quote myself I guess I made this sound like I was talking about dry hopping but I wasn't. I was talking about whirlpool additions and such to make a point that dry hopping showing an IBU difference might not even be accurate considering there is a 2-3 IBU variance in normal testing.
One of my best batches of NEIPA had no boil hops whatsoever in it. Did it as sort of an experiment, and everyone at my homebrew club meeting loved it. Last two batches have been 0.25oz of Columbus.
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
It would be interesting to continue discussing this topic in another thread, since a lot of people might not be interested in this information. Can we carry it out here:
I'm not sure if I am doing this a bone-headed way, but I think it will work, if you just click on the link to the quote directly above this sentence.
PERFECT!!! I just started messing with water, and I've been totatlly confused on how it works. I too use brewers friend, and biab no sparge so these numbers should fit my bill great!
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The water calc is one of those things in BF that just doesn't seem as intuitive as it should be. You have to go to a separate page, it seems to save the calculations separately from the recipe or brew session, etc.
But what I was most surprised about was that it doesn't actually calculate the additions for you based on current and target water profiles. You have to randomly start plugging in numbers, see how it looks, then keep making adjustments until you get close to target. I believe Brun Water works the same way. This might be fine for people with a deep understanding of water chemistry, but when you're just starting out, it's sort of a shot in the dark. I saw something in the forums at BF about a script someone wrote that would actually figure out the addtions for you, but I don't know if they plan to add that to the calculator.
I will say that this was my second batch based on this recipe. For the first, I used the "simple" water solution from the original post. This second batch, with the additions I listed above, was far better. But, I changed a bunch of other stuff as well (most notably the dry hopping process and greater focus on avoiding oxidation), so I can't say for sure how much the improvement was due to the water.
OP
OP
With some of the talk on water, especially for those starting out, it is important to remember that you are basically only trying to accomplish 2 things:
1.) Proper pH of 5.3-5.45 ideally.
2.) Your own personal preference on flavor.
I find all the calculators to be a touch hit and miss ultimately. Therefore the most important thing is to start somewhere, keep track of what you do, and adjust accordingly in the future. Try a few versions with moderate swings and see if any of them stand out to you. If so, go in that direction. If not.... might not be worth worrying too much about one way or another. If I was going to start playing around with a couple versions of water, I would maybe try these 3 versions as a place to start:
Chloride:Sulfate ratio
150:75
75:150
150:150
See if any of them stand out as something you like or don't like, and go from there. It is important to keep the base beer pretty close to the same though if you really want to evaluate the potential preferences you might have.
Ultimately, in my experience, I find less/simple is often better than more and complex.
I just saw this article the other day and it has some good basic water information in there that could be useful for beginners trying to keep track of what they are actually adding to their beer.
http://beerandwinejournal.com/easy-aqua/
1.) Proper pH of 5.3-5.45 ideally.
2.) Your own personal preference on flavor.
I find all the calculators to be a touch hit and miss ultimately. Therefore the most important thing is to start somewhere, keep track of what you do, and adjust accordingly in the future. Try a few versions with moderate swings and see if any of them stand out to you. If so, go in that direction. If not.... might not be worth worrying too much about one way or another. If I was going to start playing around with a couple versions of water, I would maybe try these 3 versions as a place to start:
Chloride:Sulfate ratio
150:75
75:150
150:150
See if any of them stand out as something you like or don't like, and go from there. It is important to keep the base beer pretty close to the same though if you really want to evaluate the potential preferences you might have.
Ultimately, in my experience, I find less/simple is often better than more and complex.
I just saw this article the other day and it has some good basic water information in there that could be useful for beginners trying to keep track of what they are actually adding to their beer.
http://beerandwinejournal.com/easy-aqua/
trav77
Well-Known Member
How do we feel about Equinox hops in this style? Specifically with Citra and/or Mosaic. Going for more fruity/tropical.
OP
OP
Have not used them, so can't say for sure. What I usually do when I want to experiment with a hop in this beer is I go 1:1:1 or 1.5:1:.5(exp. hop) with the kettle hops and first dry hop. Then I taste the beer before my final dry hop. If I am not in love with the new hop, I don't use it in the last dry hop and just go heavier with Citra/Mosaic (or other tried and true hops I like).
I've used in this beer: 1469, WLP022, Conan, 1318, Conan/1318 blended, Trois, a blend of BA11/Trois, and a blend of all of those. Not a bad beer out of any of these, but WLP022 was the least fruity. Fruitiness ranked: 1. Trois/BA11, 2. Trois, 3. Blend of all the strains, 4. Tie - Conan, Conan/1318, 5. 1469, 6. WLP022. I personally preferred the beer I made with a big blend.
I just tried some Whoa Equinox from Magnify Brewing and it would certainly qualify as a NEIPA. Equinox starts out sweet and fruity, but it's sort of dryer than Citra/etc. The fruitiness goes away a bit on the finish and it's replaced with this sort of green peppery/piney/almost spicy flavor that is very unique and nice. I thought it was a very good beer.. I wouldn't hesitate to mess with Equinox in your recipes.
ThatVideoKid
Well-Known Member
For some reason I want to make a beer with this method but using a hop that isn't the norm. Like an British hop like Brewers gold or bramling cross? Why I have no idea but I want to do it to see what it would taste like.
brewski09
Well-Known Member
I'm curious too. Stone did gotterdamerung (sp?) IPA using all German hops couple years ago and it was interesting.
ThatVideoKid
Well-Known Member
Well bramling cross and pilgrim are interesting in that along with the English spice, they have citrus and currant flavors, so I feel like it could work. I haven't done many IPAs yet though, but I will definitely try this in a couple months
DaveDiedDancing
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I also wanted to try some hops that I have not brewed with before. I managed to get some Enigma, Kohatu, and Moteuka and used them in this recipe. I'm drinking it now and it's excellent. I also kegged it for the first time using the method described by the OP (using the screen/filters). Hopefully this helps it keep longer. My IPAs were losing steam early.
milldoggy
Well-Known Member
I did us tettnager with Amarillo. Just kegged it, pulled and carbed some pre dry hop. Very good. I would say go for any hop combo
ThatVideoKid
Well-Known Member
Why when I heard any hop I just thought of a true abomination, I really don't know. This recipe as a single hop Saaz or styrian beer. 3oz at flameout, 3oz whirlpool, and 3oz dryhop. Like a noble milkshake.
Probably would actually need closer to a pound per 5gal to get a similar affect, but boy would that be weird.
Probably would be one of the few to ever be whirlpooling noble hops
they are noble hops for a reason. trust me.
a while ago i tried 21oz to make a "noble ipa". gross, came off all weird. Less hop character than ones I made with half that amount of typical IPA hops
ThatVideoKid
Well-Known Member
Yeah that's kindof how I figured it would go.
So I'm going to start with a more normal version of this beer. Similar malt bill but I upped the oats. Using 1318. I'm sticking with more classic American hops though because I had 5oz of cascade to burn.
So I have 5oz cascade, 2oz centennial, 2oz of ahtanum. I also have 2oz Galaxy and 4oz of exp7270 as well that I didn't intend on using but it's fair game. Not sure what amounts I'll use and when but in open to suggestions.
Braufessor, what is your preferred grain bill these days? You said a little while back that you have been bumping the flaked and wheat up to 15-18%, which is higher than the original posted recipe.
I recently brewed the original grain bill, and it was fantastic, but I'd like to go a little bigger and increase mouthfeel and perceived sweetness a bit.
I'm brewing this weekend, planning on:
6.5 lb American - Pale 2-Row 40.3%
6.5 lb United Kingdom - Golden Promise 40.3%
1 lb Flaked Oats 6.2%
1 lb Flaked Barley 6.2%
0.75 lb American - Wheat 4.7%
6 oz Canadian - Honey Malt 2.3%
This should give me an OG of 1.074, hopefully winding up around 1.018 for about 7.3% ABV.
Thoughts?
I recently brewed the original grain bill, and it was fantastic, but I'd like to go a little bigger and increase mouthfeel and perceived sweetness a bit.
I'm brewing this weekend, planning on:
6.5 lb American - Pale 2-Row 40.3%
6.5 lb United Kingdom - Golden Promise 40.3%
1 lb Flaked Oats 6.2%
1 lb Flaked Barley 6.2%
0.75 lb American - Wheat 4.7%
6 oz Canadian - Honey Malt 2.3%
This should give me an OG of 1.074, hopefully winding up around 1.018 for about 7.3% ABV.
Thoughts?
Wrong thread, sorry.
Yeah I asked this a while back, he may have forgotten about it.
OG Recipe:
GRAIN BILL:
% and the actual amt. I use for 6.5 gallons @ 84% mash efficiency (your efficiency may vary)
44% Rahr 2 Row ( 5 lbs)
44% Golden Promise (or similar.... Pearl, Maris Otter) (5 lbs)
4% Flaked Oats (1/2 lb)
4% Flaked Barley 1/2 lb)
2% Wheat (1/4 lb)
2% Honey Malt (1/4 lb)
This is about 10% flaked. So I am guessing 18% flaked would look like:
40% 2-Row
40% Golden Promise
7% Flaked Oats
7% Flaked Barley
4% Flaked Wheat
2% Honey Malt
or somewhat similar to this, at least.
What yeast?
I did a version of 10# Golden Promise (80%) and 2.5# Flaked Oats (20%) and mine finished around 1.010-11 with 1318. Drier than I expected. It was still good, but not the mouthfeel I was hoping for with a higher flaked oat amount.
1318. The last batch I did with original grain bill proportions, also 1318, went from 1.060 to 1.014, ABV 6.0%. That's about 77% attenuation. The version I proposed above I plugged in 76%. Also I mashed at 154 and plan to do that again.
OP
OP
Sorry - been out of town for a while and trying to catch up upon getting back, so have been slacking
My last several batches have looked like this:
OG = 1.060
84% efficiency, so adjust accordingly
40-41% Rahr 2 row (5.5lbs)
40-41% Golden Promise (5.5 lbs)
7.5% Flaked oats (1 lb)
3.7% Flaked Barley (.5lb)
3.7% Weyerman Wheat (.5lb)
1.9% Flaked Wheat (.25lb)
1.9% Honey malt (.25lb)
Liking the slightly higher abv. No real desire to go higher though than this..... Not a fan of beers in the 7-8%+ range. This one is right around 6.0%
Conan yeast, Hop schedule still the same. Mixing it up, but still Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy combos seem to be my favorite.
Last two batches I went heavier to sulfate to experiment. One was 140:70 sulfate: chloride (carbonating now), the other was 200:40 sulfate to chloride..... about a week into fermentation. Cautiously optimistic about the first one so far.
My last several batches have looked like this:
OG = 1.060
84% efficiency, so adjust accordingly
40-41% Rahr 2 row (5.5lbs)
40-41% Golden Promise (5.5 lbs)
7.5% Flaked oats (1 lb)
3.7% Flaked Barley (.5lb)
3.7% Weyerman Wheat (.5lb)
1.9% Flaked Wheat (.25lb)
1.9% Honey malt (.25lb)
Liking the slightly higher abv. No real desire to go higher though than this..... Not a fan of beers in the 7-8%+ range. This one is right around 6.0%
Conan yeast, Hop schedule still the same. Mixing it up, but still Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy combos seem to be my favorite.
Last two batches I went heavier to sulfate to experiment. One was 140:70 sulfate: chloride (carbonating now), the other was 200:40 sulfate to chloride..... about a week into fermentation. Cautiously optimistic about the first one so far.
OP
OP
Sampling the 140 sulfate heavy batch. One day on gas. Gotta say, I really like this a lot. I hesitate to say it is drastically different because I am not tasting it blind vs. another version. But, I do think it comes off sharper and a more prominent, focused hop flavor. Bitterness and hop flavor seem to linger more than regular. I would say at the very least it is as good as any batch of this I have brewed. Curious if my other batch that went 200:40 might not actually have gone too far. We will see I guess. For now, I am quite intrigued by this relatively minor adjustment. Next week I think I will brew two to sample head to head.... This one and the original water profile.
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
You did one with some Eureka! hops, right? What did you think?
OP
OP
"IF" I do it again, I will go a lot lighter on the Eureka.... or different combo. I think I did Citra, Eureka, Columbus..... just too much. Too grassy, too harsh. I think I used an ounce of Eureka in all 4 additions. Plus I think I used a half ounce or so of columbus in all 4. Overwhelming.
I think I drank a gallon straight as is, used 2 gallons to mix with a blonde ale - which was ok, and dumped the last 2 gallons down the drain.
If I was going to do it again, I would maybe go
1.5 Citra
1.0 mosaic
.5 Eureka
in all 4 additions and evaluate it from there.
