trav77
Well-Known Member
Brewing this tomorrow. How do we feel about whirlfloc in this style? I'm cool with hazy but don't like a pint of sludge.
New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA
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stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
some of the NE IPAs are fantastic. Anyone bashing them is full of s---
Whirlfloc unnecessary. The only pints with "sludge" are the first 1 or 2 if you keg (and that is still not always) or the last 1 or 2 if you bottle (almost always for me)
mintyice
Well-Known Member
I use it but it just causes a bigger cold break. Doesn't actually really clear up after being kegged for a while.
OP
OP
"Sludge" is more a product of excessive yeast and hop material making its way into the serving keg. Not really something Whirfloc is going to cure.
"Haze" is a product of proteins and hop polyphenol compounds from lots of late hops and dry hops. Some, modest, suspended yeast probably too.
"Haze" is a product of proteins and hop polyphenol compounds from lots of late hops and dry hops. Some, modest, suspended yeast probably too.
Pretty sure he came out and clarified that the beer that started this "drama" wasn't an NEIPA but just a lousy beer - so it got a bit taken out of context.
Dave green was author.
OP
OP
Recent Sunday Session had "Fieldwork" Brewery (From west coast) on.... they brew NEIPA style beers. It was a very good interview. Can't remember if it was that episode, or the next one with Shady Oak..... but, on one of them, a brewer made one of the best cases for this style of beer.... basically, said the thing he loved about it was that because of the polyphenols, the yeast, the high hop rates - the beer just does not travel well, does not age well (I agree with that for the most part). He said he loved that because it can't be replicated by big, production breweries with huge distribution. It is a truly "local" style and the only way to get the best examples is to get them from the source. Kind of a throwback to long ago when small breweries were common in many towns and each had its unique character.
I thought that was a pretty interesting take on it, and a positive that I don't think a lot of people had considered. It really is a "local" beer and best consumed that way. Difficult or impossible to mass produce, mass distribute, etc. Couple good episodes and interviews though worth checking out.
I thought that was a pretty interesting take on it, and a positive that I don't think a lot of people had considered. It really is a "local" beer and best consumed that way. Difficult or impossible to mass produce, mass distribute, etc. Couple good episodes and interviews though worth checking out.
abbysdad2006
Well-Known Member
That looks fantastic, did u use the OP recipe?
orangehero
Well-Known Member
I entered this beer recently in Drunk Monk competition and it finished 1st in Light Hybrid category. Entered it in NHC at St. Louis and it placed top 3 and made it through to finals (even though it was a bit old when I sent it.) It really is a nice drinking beer. Other than the NE IPA - I probably brew this more than any other beer.
Do you have any new thoughts on competing with this in BJCP competitions now that the style is more widely known?
What would be the best categories in the 2015 guidelines?
Just wanted to drop a note to say that my NEIPA has settled in and it's become a great drinker. It's a little more bitter than I would like on the long finish following the first few sips, but otherwise I am enjoying it lots.
Would be interesting to ferm high & enter in the Belgium IPA category. Personally I don't get any spicy notes but i start my ferm @ 62-64* wort temp & ramp up after 48hrs
brew703
Well-Known Member
Going to brew Brau's Blonde again using 1318. Outside of using Liberty hops, which hops would be best to use? I have a variety of hops, incl citra, galaxy, cascade, Amarillo, simcoe, nelson, El dorado, and a few other varieties.
OP
OP
I think it would be hit and miss depending on the judge it went in front of, as well as the style(s) you entered it under.
I know a few people have mentioned they have entered it and had success doing so. I think someone mentioned "wheat IPA" .... maybe under the specialty IPA category.
OP
OP
When I brew it, my goal is a beer that answers the question: "What do you have that is like bud light?"
I have used US Saaz in it with good success.
From your list, if I was going for something that was "truly" a blonde ale..... and not actually an american pale ale..... I would use smallish amounts of cascade, or amarillo... or both.
If you want to turn it into something happier, hard to go wrong with Citra. Nelson or El Dorado might be nice too. I would be hesitant on galaxy or simcoe just because they can get a bit more dank/resinous which might be a bit much for a smaller beer.
brew703
Well-Known Member
I do have some Saaz but not enough to get 21 or so IBU's. I'm trying to get something my wife will drink. She did like the Liberty I used last time but don't have any left and my LHBS doesn't have any at the time.
I brewed two 1 gallon test batches using El Dorado and nelson in each. Wife liked the El Dorado but not Nelson.
Since I have Cascade I may just go with that this time to see how it turns out. El Dorado is a different hop but may go for it just to experiment with your Blonde's grain bill.
OP
OP
Yeah - cascade would be pretty classic for a blonde. Amarillo would also work nice I think - kind of a fruity/tropical/smooth aspect to that hop.
OP
OP
Did you do the original recipe?
Some places that might get you more bitterness than you anticipated....
*I use .75 ounces of Warrior at 60 - but, remember, I am ending up with 6.5 gallons. If someone is finishing with 5 gallons for example - that would add bitterness. Same with all the other additions..... They would all be a bit higher in 5 gallons probably.
*Flame out - I put hops in and turn off flame. I start chilling immediately and I bet the wort is under 160 in less than 5 minutes. Then I shut off chiller and add second addition. If that flameout addition is sitting at 180+ degrees for a longer time you will get a greater degree of bitterness out of it.
*Any additional hopping that people choose to do in the boil, or late boil will obviously add bitterness as well.
Big thing is to take good notes on what you do and what you get out of your system and process - and then you can alter it a bit future batches.
Amazing thread!! Just brewed a version of this on Sunday and cannot wait to see how it turns out. Doing equal hop additions of Citra, mosaic and Galaxy.
Looking for some help here. I just got 8 oz each of dried, whole hops of nugget, Zeus and cascade hops. Any suggestions on how to utilize?
Was thinking the standard 4 additions at 3 ounces each but am not familiar with the whole hop usage rate and even nugget.
Looking for some help here. I just got 8 oz each of dried, whole hops of nugget, Zeus and cascade hops. Any suggestions on how to utilize?
Was thinking the standard 4 additions at 3 ounces each but am not familiar with the whole hop usage rate and even nugget.
I did the original, with minor changes in the grain bill. I did some Vienna and dropped the flaked barley, but otherwise it was almost the same. The hop schedule was same quantities, but if you recall, I did not do the middle keg - I put the second round of dry hops in the serving keg for a few days, then pulled them out.
I did make a mistake in that I left the first round of dry hops more days than the recipe. I would not suspect that would contribute to bitterness, just grassy notes - but I am not getting much of those.
I also did a 6.5 gal batch. I also rapidly chilled immediately after flameout. I thought same that these would be contributors, but I stuck to the plan.
Look - its good, just a bit puckery on the back end from the bitterness. Beersmith says my IBU's are 88 - but 39 of those come from the Steep/Whirlpool, which is likely mis-calculated. So at 50, it kinda makes sense.
rtracer
Well-Known Member
OP
OP
Cool - all sounds good. Probably just something to adjust from batch to batch to suit personal tastes.
OP
OP
Been without any IPA on tap for 10 days now...... not for long. Big glass is 1.060 version of Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy - going into serving keg right now. The little glass is Citra/Mosaic heading to dry hop keg shortly. Got a Citra/Galaxy going in the fermenter as well.... time to get the pipeline filled up again.
Oh - by the way, the big glass is 1272 yeast, 1056 in the smaller glass.
Oh - by the way, the big glass is 1272 yeast, 1056 in the smaller glass.
OP
OP
Sorry, for the one going into the fermenter?
Btw, amazing post! So geeked to try different variations of this. Did the inaugural batch this Sunday and doing equal C, M, G. I am thinking next batch as all Citra or 50/50 Citra Galaxy mix.
OP
OP
oops - sorry - I went 1.5:1.5 for both kettle additions and probably the same for the first dry hop.... likely taste it before dry hop keg and see if I want to favor one or the other in that last dry hop.
armenianbrewer
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View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1474943841.201799.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1474943866.787859.jpg
So just coming back with an update after trying 3 bottles of my variant and I have to say after my initial sampling of the less than full first bottle, the carbonation in each bottle has been fantastic. The hop aroma is really fresh and really pleasant. I'd say earthy/pine with some subtle fruity citrus aroma and the same goes for the hop flavor, but very potent and very strong hop flavor in the same descriptions of the aroma... but wow this came out very bitter! I'm not sure what the bitterness for this style should be or how much utilization I had in my process from the whirlpool but it's much much more bitter than I expected, consistently with each bottle of consumed. The appearance as you can tell is a very nice darker thick cloudy orange/tan
I'll have to say I'm happy with this brew, but might need to figure out how to make it less bitter next time but the extra bitterness does balance out the fact that I went all marris otter and the abv came out a little stronger than the OP
So just coming back with an update after trying 3 bottles of my variant and I have to say after my initial sampling of the less than full first bottle, the carbonation in each bottle has been fantastic. The hop aroma is really fresh and really pleasant. I'd say earthy/pine with some subtle fruity citrus aroma and the same goes for the hop flavor, but very potent and very strong hop flavor in the same descriptions of the aroma... but wow this came out very bitter! I'm not sure what the bitterness for this style should be or how much utilization I had in my process from the whirlpool but it's much much more bitter than I expected, consistently with each bottle of consumed. The appearance as you can tell is a very nice darker thick cloudy orange/tan
I'll have to say I'm happy with this brew, but might need to figure out how to make it less bitter next time but the extra bitterness does balance out the fact that I went all marris otter and the abv came out a little stronger than the OP
OP
OP
Just kick the bittering hop down... or, move it back to 45 minutes or even 30 minutes and skip the 60 minute addition.
Great pictures, they both look so good. I want to make this!!
armenianbrewer
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Yeah I think that's what I'll do. I'm just thoroughly and honestly impressed with how the flavor has come around since my initial hydrometer samples and I'm really happy -- honestly one of my better batches yet. I'm excited to make this again in the future but perhaps with different hops and maybe cut the base malt MO back in half vs going all MO... how would this recipe work with say just a single hop, maybe all Amarillo?
rtracer
Well-Known Member
ANybody try WLP-007 on this one?
After striking out trying to get Conan, Vermont, and Wyeast 1318, I had to use Mangrove Jack's M07 British Ale and it came out fantastic. Apparently it is very comparable to 007.
Hey guys, I want to bring this back up again. Posted all previous replies above so any newcomers have the whole conversation. We brewed our version 2 of this on 9/17. Color out of the boil kettle was a disgusting murky green, I assume due to the large amount of late boil, flameout, and whirlpool hops. All hops used are pellet hops. During transfer to the fermenter, I usually go through a large (4x10) SS mesh strainer from Utah Biodiesel. It became so clogged so quickly that we tossed it aside and switched to a 5 gal paint strainer bag. I'm assuming this let a bit more of the hop material through than the mesh strainer would have. Eventually we got 14 gallons transferred into the conical.
Fermenter has a sample valve, so I pulled off enough for a gravity reading. Then I decided to taste it - big mistake! Straight on hop juice! BITTER! Color still quite green. Two days later we dumped trub from the botton of the conical. Extracted nearly a full gallon - 90+% trub.
On 9/25 I pulled a gravity reading and with most of the hop material having dropped and been dumped, the color was a nice murky orange. Taste was excellent. We added the first dry hop in a weighted down, sanitized paint strainer tied off with unscented dental floss.
Yesterday my partner pulled another gravity reading. He said the color had started turning brown already!!! Sent me a pic, and yeah, definitely browner than the sample from Sunday.
So I see two possibilities. Either we oxidized the beer when adding our dry hop, or the massive volume of hops used in the boil has caused particles of hop material to stay suspended in the beer and they have caused the beer to turn color. I'm happy to entertain any other possibilities.
So I also have a boil hop addition question. Do most of you use some form of hop spider with IPAs, or just toss your hops loose into the boil kettle? My partner believes the fact that we just toss them in and attempt to strain them out after the boil is the cause of our beer not remaining orange, or turning brownish down the road. I think not, as any actual pieces of hop leaf that go into the fermenter will eventually drop out.
The fermenting beer was still at 1.020 yesterday. OG was 1.062. We did miss our mash temp a little high, so it may not go much lower. We will take another reading on Thursday night, remove dry hop #1, and decide on a packaging day. I plan to put in dry hop #2 4 days out from packaging, with a cold crash for the last 2 days.
Any and all thoughts, suggestions or ideas on why beer is turning brown and improvements to our process are welcome. And I would like to get an idea what percentage of you are using hop spiders, vs. tossing hops in loose. Thanks!
I've used 007 with success. I can't compare it to other yeasts, as I just started brewing this style. I took a 2nd in a comp with it. It attenuated out as 007 does, flocced as well. I did massive dry hop 1oz/gal so go a good haze from that. I'm about to brew a batch using Yeast Lab Vermont IPA, so will have a good comp after that.
OP
OP
My thought is Oxygen.... not just from a single dry hop addition.... but it seems like you are accessing your beer a lot.
*When you Dropped your Trub out of the fermenter...... does that suck oxygen in? Something must replace that volume in the fermenter - what? Does it ever "bubble up" from the bottom, through the beer? That could be an issue.
*Gravity Readings..... I honestly just never take them. I really don't see the point. Healthy, active yeast does the job.... I just let it go for the full 12 days or so before jumping it to dry hop keg. Honestly, if yeast has not done its thing in 12-14 days.... I am not really sure what anyone is going to do about it at that point anyway.
*Taking hops out..... I don't do that.
*Adding bags ..... I don't do that either.
You are losing beer through this process anyway by the sounds of it...... I lose beer too - I just choose to lose it on the front end for the most part. I brew 6.5 gallons and after letting the hops/trub settle out while chilling - I just leave 3/4 of a gallon of sludge in my brew pot and dump it down the drain. The wort that comes out of my kettle is really pretty clean for the most part because all that material falls to the bottom of my kettle and just sits there. I don't dump it in my fermenter. I don't dump it through a strainer. All hops go in my kettle loose.
You are losing beer to bags of hops too.... Again, all my hops go in lose to fermenter for dry hopping. But, they really pretty much settle out. I try to move my fermenter to a counter 2 days before transfer - further letting things settle out without needing to move it. And, again - I am leaving 1/2 gallon behind in the fermenter with most of the yeast, trub, and hop material.... but, clean beer into dry hop keg.
Only filtering I do is with the filters around the dip tube in my dry hop keg - the hops go in there loose too.
By the time it is all said and done, I am probably putting 4.75 gallons of beer in my serving keg from a 6.5 gallon batch. Just the price of doing business with this beer. However, it is clean beer with very little hop matter. Moderate to low amount of yeast still in suspension. No Sludge.
I guess I would focus a little more on leaving more stuff behind in your kettle to start with, and then minimizing access to the fermenter throughout. It is likely you are getting a combo of oxygen and excess trub/hop matter that is giving you some of your issues.
Could do some cold crashing too if you need to perhaps and make sure you are pulling beer off fermenter above all the gunk on the bottom.
Those would be some thoughts in looking at your description.... maybe one or two of them stand out from your perspective.
rtracer
Well-Known Member
I just did a heavy late addition IPA brew last week. I ended up using 4 OZ at 5 minutes, 4 oz at flame out and an additional 2 oz at 170*. All hops were simply thrown loosely in the kettle.
The wort was very green going into my feremnter, its been 7 days since I brewed and it is a nice shade or orange with a HUGE 3.5 inch trub layer at the bottom. I will be dry hopping after work.
This was more of s regular IPA grain bill w/out all the cereal additions, but I am sure the brown is not from the kettle hop additions. I also highly doubt there is any O2 related browness going on at this point.
My usual practice is free hops in the kettle and fermenter
rtracer
Well-Known Member
OK, excited to try your recipe for my next brew. I plan to follow your grain bill to a T. Only changes I see at this point...I think I will use a 3 ML hop shot for bittering at 60. Yakima Valley Hops claim 10 IBU's per ML so sounds about right. I will use Citra, Galaxy and Amarillo(or Appolo).
Have not decided if I will pitch Gigayeast Vermont(conan??), Wyeast1318 or WLP-007.
I may also experiment with tossing in an OZ or two of hops when I pitch.
Also I will do both dryhops in primary. I keg in Sankes and have not figured out the whole closed transfer thing.
I do BIAB, so I am not sure if anyone else has done this BAIB. I will report with findings.
Thanks for all the info!!!
Have not decided if I will pitch Gigayeast Vermont(conan??), Wyeast1318 or WLP-007.
I may also experiment with tossing in an OZ or two of hops when I pitch.
Also I will do both dryhops in primary. I keg in Sankes and have not figured out the whole closed transfer thing.
I do BIAB, so I am not sure if anyone else has done this BAIB. I will report with findings.
Thanks for all the info!!!
