New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Noob_Brewer]

It depends a bit on the yeast you use and your setup. I had been using a high floccing yeast that only required a drop to 63 and it would clear really quickly. Moved to something a little less flocculent and it’s more like 58/60. I leave it at 60 for DH. 2-3 days as long as there’s no hop creep and then start cooling. I don’t crash usually. 5* in AM, 5* in the evening. Leave at 42 for a day and keg. I don’t go lower than 42 cause the conicals I have won’t maintain head pressure below that and I have to waste a bunch of Co2. I have one Unitank where I’ll go to 38.

By "hop Creep" i understand this as the restarting of the fermentation process after dry hopping. If this is correct, how do you visualize this? Often after dry hopping I see some CO2 bubbles coming to the surface which I always assumed was CO2 trapped in the bottom once the yeast settle out after soft crash. I have never seen, yet, any sort of krausen to reform or anything of that nature. So how do you visually assess whether hop creep is occurring? Thanks

 

[aaronm13]

The Veil are a fantastic brewery. Chubbles is one of the best TIPAs I've ever had. Just kegged my latest version yesterday and pretty much did everything the way couchsending set out. This will be my third time doing it this way and I wont go back to hopping during fermentation as the hops are so pronounced doing it this way. I'll post sample pic when I take the first proper pour. Sample I took yesterday was very encouraging even at that early stage.

 

[SRJHops]

What's the reasoning behind 50's - low 60's for dry hopping? Janish mentioned that hop extraction is a little slower at cold temps, but he still saw full extraction at 48 hours. Are people worried about suck back?

The main reason to dry hop below fermentation temp is to decrease polyphenol extraction and harshness, as well as reduce the chance of hop creep and diacetyl problems.

 

[Dgallo]

The main reason to dry hop below fermentation temp is to decrease polyphenol extraction.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0263876210003321

Not exactly, polyphenol extract mostly at higher temps. The reason people are avoiding fermentation hopping is because yeast will molecularly bind polyphenols to protein chains. By soft crashing prior to dry hoping you are reducing the number of yeast present from dragging hop oils with them when they floc out and as to reduce the amount of hop creep, which also since that is more fermentation, you are reducing the risk from it binding proteins and polyphenols

 

[couchsending]

By "hop Creep" i understand this as the restarting of the fermentation process after dry hopping. If this is correct, how do you visualize this? Often after dry hopping I see some CO2 bubbles coming to the surface which I always assumed was CO2 trapped in the bottom once the yeast settle out after soft crash. I have never seen, yet, any sort of krausen to reform or anything of that nature. So how do you visually assess whether hop creep is occurring? Thanks

Gravity readings. If after 2 days there’s no drop in gravity then I’ll start cooling. Sometimes I’ll do a forced diacetyl test but it’s been so long since I’ve had a positive for diacetyl that I rarely do them anymore. Pretty sure I’m rather sensitive to it, could be wrong. I’m also doing as much as possible (besides using the enzyme) to create as successful of a fermentation as I can in hopes that diacetyl won’t be an issue later on if there is some refermentation.

 

[SRJHops]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0263876210003321

Not exactly, polyphenol extract mostly at higher temps. The reason people are avoiding fermentation hopping is because yeast will molecularly bind polyphenols to protein chains. By soft crashing prior to dry hoping you are reducing the number of yeast present from dragging hop oils with them when they floc out and as to reduce the amount of hop creep, which also since that is more fermentation, you are reducing the risk from it binding proteins and polyphenols

I'm with you, but I read his question to mean what are the benefits of dry hopping cold. Though perhaps I missed the context..

As for dry hopping during fermentation or not, it seems to me that it doesn't have to be either or, does it? I am currently dry hopping at the end of fermentation, then soft crashing to 58, then cold dry hopping for 48 hours prior to bottling. I don't technically cold crash, other than chilling the bottles...

But help me understand more... Certainly the floccing yeast is going to pull out some hop oils/flavor, right? That would happen whether or not we dry hop during fermentation. So are you saying it's a waste of hops to add them during fermentation, because the flavors will just get pulled out anyway when I soft crash?

 

[secretlevel]

I'm with you, but I read his question to mean what are the benefits of dry hopping cold. Though perhaps I missed the context..

As for dry hopping during fermentation or not, it seems to me that it doesn't have to be either or, does it? I am currently dry hopping at the end of fermentation, then soft crashing to 58, then cold dry hopping for 48 hours prior to bottling. I don't technically cold crash, other than chilling the bottles...

But help me understand more... Certainly the floccing yeast is going to pull out some hop oils/flavor, right? That would happen whether or not we dry hop during fermentation. So are you saying it's a waste of hops to add them during fermentation, because the flavors will just get pulled out anyway when I soft crash?

Sorry, I really suck at questions. You're both right to a good extent, I'm just wondering if there's anything wrong with cold crashing all the way to 39 - 40F as opposed to 58 or 62.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Sorry, I really suck at questions. You're both right to a good extent, I'm just wondering if there's anything wrong with cold crashing all the way to 39 - 40F as opposed to 58 or 62.

If you are talking about cold crashing before dry hopping i.e. "soft crashing" I wouldn't think there would be anything wrong with that at all. It would just take more time depending on your system. I personally soft crash to 55 now with all my NEIPAs after fermentation is complete and I find that the yeast flocs out well. Have done this with conan yeast strains, A24 dry hop, and even Voss Kviek (although the kveik yeast flocs VERY well without the soft crash). I simply visually look for the beer to clear up as a sign the yeast has flocked out. I don't even hold soft crash temps that long either - once at 55 degrees I'm typically warming up to dry hop temps (65 degrees for me) about 20-24hrs later. Been working well for me. After my dry hopping is done, Ill start the hard crash to 38 degrees in preparation for kegging to get any remaining yeast and hop particulate to make a nice pancake on the bottom.

 

[Dgallo]

Sorry, I really suck at questions. You're both right to a good extent, I'm just wondering if there's anything wrong with cold crashing all the way to 39 - 40F as opposed to 58 or 62.

No nothing wrong with it but it takes longer. For us it’s not a big deal as home brewers but commercial brewers will crash to the highest possible temp to drop the yeast because it takes a lot longer and more energy (cost) to drop their volume size down to 40 than say 59

 

[jturman35]

A dumb question but do you guys do 90min boil when using Pilsner malt for this style?

 

[beervoid]

Gravity readings. If after 2 days there’s no drop in gravity then I’ll start cooling. Sometimes I’ll do a forced diacetyl test but it’s been so long since I’ve had a positive for diacetyl that I rarely do them anymore. Pretty sure I’m rather sensitive to it, could be wrong. I’m also doing as much as possible (besides using the enzyme) to create as successful of a fermentation as I can in hopes that diacetyl won’t be an issue later on if there is some refermentation.

Do you let the fv freerise after dry hopping?
And you can dump trub and yeast before and during right?
I think this method might be risky for those that cant dump yeast cause of hop creep.

 

[JohnConnor]

Side note, did anyone else see Farm Hillstead/Shaun's post today? "Only three breweries were using "Conan" as a yeast strain." I might have missed it somewhere but I've never heard him confirm their ale yeast until now. Obviously doesn't mean they're still using it but the phrasing kind of makes it seem that way.

 

[couchsending]

Their yeast is VT Ale as well, not LAIII. It came from Noonan just like the Alchemist yeast. However I’ve heard that they’re different generations of the original yeast that they use and have obviously morphed somewhat as well. I don’t think the “Conan” that’s commercially available is much like what HF uses. Their yeast is very flocculant and the Conan that’s available is almost the opposite.

 

[isomerization]

A dumb question but do you guys do 90min boil when using Pilsner malt for this style?

No

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Ok, in an effort to get away from the tropical juice bomb NEIPA I decided to brew a couple beers without...gulp...citra! Lol. I brewed a fantastic simcoe Amarillo and just kegged a beer that was intended to be dank for sure. I used simcoe, mosaic, and strata. It is very good and very dank...but for the first time I sense an intense “cat piss” aroma. My guilty pleasure here is that I like it ! The simcoe in this kegged beer is from the same batch that I used for simcoe Amarillo and there zero sense of cat pee in that one. So that leaves mosaic and strata. Anyone here get “cat pee” from these hops or is this a “perfect storm” for hop combos that result in a dank cat pee type of aroma. Flavor is mush more dank than cat pee but aroma is very cat pee like. Just curious on anyone’s experiences with this

 

[aaronm13]

This is my latest, Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy. Really happy with it so far. London Fog yeast and dry hopping started after fermentation and a soft crash to 55. Dry hopped at 60F.

 

[isomerization]

Ok, in an effort to get away from the tropical juice bomb NEIPA I decided to brew a couple beers without...gulp...citra! Lol. I brewed a fantastic simcoe Amarillo and just kegged a beer that was intended to be dank for sure. I used simcoe, mosaic, and strata. It is very good and very dank...but for the first time I sense an intense “cat piss” aroma. My guilty pleasure here is that I like it ! The simcoe in this kegged beer is from the same batch that I used for simcoe Amarillo and there zero sense of cat pee in that one. So that leaves mosaic and strata. Anyone here get “cat pee” from these hops or is this a “perfect storm” for hop combos that result in a dank cat pee type of aroma. Flavor is mush more dank than cat pee but aroma is very cat pee like. Just curious on anyone’s experiences with this

I get that from Mosaic depending on lot, and also like it in small doses. It’s a thing in white wine as well I believe.

 

[Broothru]

I get that from Mosaic depending on lot, and also like it in small doses. It’s a thing in white wine as well I believe.

Some wines, but not many. Probably the best (worst?) example would be New Zealand sauvignon blanc. Very musky, with a definite ammonia/cat piss nose, much more prominent than any hops I've used from New Zealand. The closest hop might be Hallertau Blanc. Only used that hop once (in a Brut) and did notice it there, but it was not unpleasant or overpowering.

Brooo Brother

 

[SRJHops]

This is my latest, Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy. Really happy with it so far. London Fog yeast and dry hopping started after fermentation and a soft crash to 55. Dry hopped at 60F.

Looks great - classic hops! Guessing a fair dosage of oats and/or wheat?

 

[aaronm13]

Looks great - classic hops! Guessing a fair dosage of oats and/or wheat?

18% Flaked oats and 9% wheat. Went back to an old reliable for the hop combination. Can't go wrong with it.

 

[hezagenius]

Tapped this about a week ago.
Strata whirlpool and Citra/Mosaic/Strata dry hop.

 

[SRJHops]

Tapped this about a week ago.
Strata whirlpool and Citra/Mosaic/Strata dry hop.

View attachment 673759

Looks about perfect to me! That is my current favorite hop combo. I am going to swap in El Dorado for the Strata for a brew this week, but only because they didn't have Strata at MoreBeer. My LHBS store is closed, so I am trying ordering everything online for the first time. The big FEDEX box is due any minute! I actually think I just heard it thud outside my door as I typed this!

 

[hezagenius]

Yeah, I want to do a Citra/Mosaic/El Dorado soon. See if I can get it close to Juicy Bits.

 

[aaronm13]

Has anyone used the combination of Simcoe, Equinox and Medusa? Looking to do something different and going on descriptions the sound like they would work great.

 

[isomerization]

Just about two months old now, oat dream inspired IPA. Aroma has started to fall off, but color, haze and favor are still going strong! Eliminating O2 during cold crash and transfer has helped so much more than I thought possible!

 

[LumberZach]

Just about two months old now, oat dream inspired IPA. Aroma has started to fall off, but color, haze and favor are still going strong! Eliminating O2 during cold crash and transfer has helped so much more than I thought possible!

View attachment 673790

Do you follow the Other Half Daydream (oat cream IPAs) Thread? What did your grain bill look like? I just brewed one yesterday and my grain bill consisted of 50% 2Row, 50% TF Malted Oats, and Lactose.

 

[isomerization]

Do you follow the Other Half Daydream (oat cream IPAs) Thread? What did your grain bill look like? I just brewed one yesterday and my grain bill consisted of 50% 2Row, 50% TF Malted Oats, and Lactose.

That thread was my inspiration as well. I had to split between flaked and malted oats (inventory glitch), but went 50/50 with 1 lb lactose in 6 gal batch. Southern Hemisphere hops, one of my favorite brews I’ve done. Prob 50% more trub than normal though.

 

[LumberZach]

That thread was my inspiration as well. I had to split between flaked and malted oats (inventory glitch), but went 50/50 with 1 lb lactose in 6 gal batch. Southern Hemisphere hops, one of my favorite brews I’ve done. Prob 50% more trub than normal though.

I did a 3 gallon batch and threw in 8oz. lactose. I'm using 1318. I account for quite a bit of trub so that was a non-issue for me. Only thing that's different than a regular NEIPA is that I have zero krausen, but it's chugging away. I'm guessing it's all the fat in the oats. Also, where did your FG end up?

 

[isomerization]

I did a 3 gallon batch and threw in 8oz. lactose. I'm using 1318. I account for quite a bit of trub so that was a non-issue for me. Only thing that's different than a regular NEIPA is that I have zero krausen, but it's chugging away. I'm guessing it's all the fat in the oats. Also, where did your FG end up?

Yep, this is my first (non-sour) beer in a long time to have minimal, fleeting head. Finished at 1.019, which is prob about 1.012 without the lactose. Mashed at 148F.

 

[tld6008]

Yeah, I want to do a Citra/Mosaic/El Dorado soon. See if I can get it close to Juicy Bits.

Just brewed a Juicy Bits batch based on the WeldWerks recipe. About 1 day from 1st dryhop. If I can remember I'll post how it turns out.

 

[jturman35]

Just brewed a Juicy Bits batch based on the WeldWerks recipe. About 1 day from 1st dryhop. If I can remember I'll post how it turns out.

Please do report back. I have been wanting to brew that recipe myself.

 

[secretlevel]

Looks about perfect to me! That is my current favorite hop combo. I am going to swap in El Dorado for the Strata for a brew this week, but only because they didn't have Strata at MoreBeer. My LHBS store is closed, so I am trying ordering everything online for the first time. The big FEDEX box is due any minute! I actually think I just heard it thud outside my door as I typed this!

Trying to get consensus on El Dorado and melon flavors. I tried it once with Citra and it was great, but not too much melon, although it had a nice hint of candy flavors. I may try to add a whole bunch of Huell Melon along side El Dorado and a little Citra next time.

 

[jturman35]

I seem to recall getting "candy flavor" from an all Citra beer after it started going down hill. I did 12 ounces in a 5 gallon batch and it was pretty damn good.

 

[SRJHops]

Just brewed a Juicy Bits batch based on the WeldWerks recipe. About 1 day from 1st dryhop. If I can remember I'll post how it turns out.

If you are willing, I'd love to see your hop schedule, temps, and amounts. I am brewing tonight with those hops!

 

[Frieds]

I’m looking to do an all citra brew next along the lines of King Sue. From what I’ve read, Toppling Goliath use S04 & 007 in their beers. Are these two the same yeast strain? And what temperatures should I be fermenting with this strain? Is fermentation temperature more important or is under pitching to get the best ester production?

 

[ihavenonickname]

Latest is my greatest. Absolutely loved this hop combo! I would use exactly this hop schedule again. Aroma explodes of melon, bubblegum and ripe pineapple. Flavor pops with citrus and balanced with coconut. Credit goes to this thread, thanks to all the contributors!

4.5g batch: 1.058 - 1.010
2-row, 10% white wheat, 10% malted rye.
Centennial: 1 oz for 30 min, 1.5 oz for 15 min.
Sabro: 2 oz WP at 185, 1 oz dry hop
Citra: 4 oz dry hop
Imperial dry hop.

 

[Oldskewl]

Planning to do either a Citra/Nelson NEIPA tomorrow or a Citra/Mosaic/Nelson. Shooting for 1.065 OG using 2 row and about 40% oat malt/flaked and a touch of honey malt. Using the Lallemand New England yeast for the first time. I am looking for advice on Hop ratios and/or amounts. I have 8 oz Citra, 2 oz of Mosaic cryo, 9 oz of Nelson. I also have 2 oz of Galaxy I could use up as well. I have never used cryo hops before but have read to use at aprox half the amount. Do they work better in the whirlpool or the dry Hop?

 

[jturman35]

I’m looking to do an all citra brew next along the lines of King Sue. From what I’ve read, Toppling Goliath use S04 & 007 in their beers. Are these two the same yeast strain? And what temperatures should I be fermenting with this strain? Is fermentation temperature more important or is under pitching to get the best ester production?

I have brewed a version of that recipe twice with good results. However i used Imperial A01 "House" and Juice, Juice was much better! I'm going to try Imperial dry hop on the next batch. However, I wouldn't know if its a clone, never had the original.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/toppling-goliath-pseudosue-can-you-clone-it.443295/

 

[secretlevel]

Latest is my greatest. Absolutely loved this hop combo! I would use exactly this hop schedule again. Aroma explodes of melon, bubblegum and ripe pineapple. Flavor pops with citrus and balanced with coconut. Credit goes to this thread, thanks to all the contributors!
View attachment 673974 View attachment 673975

4.5g batch: 1.058 - 1.010
2-row, 10% white wheat, 10% malted rye.
Centennial: 1 oz for 30 min, 1.5 oz for 15 min.
Sabro: 2 oz WP at 185, 1 oz dry hop
Citra: 4 oz dry hop
Imperial dry hop.

Great work! Centennial is a great hop that goes largely under the radar these days. It got a few shoutouts in The New IPA book where it topped the charts in certain hop compounds, one of them Myrcene, and I'm going to keep exploring with it.

I made more of a west coast IPA with Mosaic and Centennial that turned out an absolute blueberry bomb! I have yet to utilize it in a dry hop as the primary hop in a NEIPA, but it's on the list.

 

[BeerFst]

Great work! Centennial is a great hop that goes largely under the radar these days. It got a few shoutouts in The New IPA book where it topped the charts in certain hop compounds, one of them Myrcene, and I'm going to keep exploring with it.

I made more of a west coast IPA with Mosaic and Centennial that turned out an absolute blueberry bomb! I have yet to utilize it in a dry hop as the primary hop in a NEIPA, but it's on the list.

I use that Mo/Cent combo in a rye pale ale and I'm totally with you, amazing amount of blue berry. That is likely the next beer up to be brewed, though i might switch in a citra/vic secret NEIPA with nearly 50% wheat (similar a previous beer i posted here that was 50% oats)