New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[beervoid]

agreed

I have a question for you hornindal users out there. My latest batch was pitched last Monday @100* fermented around 85*. There is still Krausen and activity today on day 9, I have never had it run longer than 3 days. This is repitched slurry from a overbuilt starter probably 10th generation or so about a tbs in 3.5 gallons. I’ve probably done 25-30 batch's of hornindal beers and the only difference I can think of is that this had lactose in it. Anyone have experience with hornindal or Kveik and lactose? It’s the only thing I can think of. I have used slurry, straight pitched dried flakes, I have used it in low OG, low O2, low nutrient, low ph quick sours with zero problems. It’s weird this IPA would give me problems (OG was 1.071).

Probably some other yeast or bacteria got in

 

[jakturner]

I’ll take a contrarian view... kveik ain’t that special!

I just used Imperial Dry Hop and reached FG in 48 hours. 1060 to 1016 at 70F! And dang does that yeast smell great without all the mushroom!

Yeah Dry Hop is my go to for a drier IPA and 1318 for sweeter IPA. Kveik is nice to have on hand because it can be stored for so long and makes great unique beer. Idk where your getting mushroom from I regularly used the hornindal and Voss isolates from omega and they are both straight fruit, Voss is citrus/orange and hornindal is more tropical fruits with sweet orange/tangerine.

 

[Dgallo]

If you’re able to d

I’ll take a contrarian view... kveik ain’t that special!

I just used Imperial Dry Hop and reached FG in 48 hours. 1060 to 1016 at 70F! And dang does that yeast smell great without all the mushroom!

I personally think dryhop is the best yeast available for the style. Obviously many yeast work great but dryhop adds to the aroma and flavor but still let’s the hops be the star.

Yeah Dry Hop is my go to for a drier IPA and 1318 for sweeter IPA. Kveik is nice to have on hand because it can be stored for so long and makes great unique beer. Idk where your getting mushroom from I regularly used the hornindal and Voss isolates from omega and they are both straight fruit, Voss is citrus/orange and hornindal is more tropical fruits with sweet orange/tangerine.

It’s def a great yeast to have on hand. I use it a lot in my no boil DME NEIPAS since it multiplies and begins working so quickly. I will say the ester profile is almost too pronounce. Competes with a lot of hops especially sone of the subtle notes. That’s why I don’t use it too often

 

[Frieds]

You’ve convinced me. I’ve just gone and bought a packet of A24

 

[jturman35]

I have yet to try Imperial Dry Hop but have had pretty good luck with A38. It does typically finish around 1.018-1.020 on the sweeter side when I use it.

 

[Jesse Runowski]

I personally think dryhop is the best yeast available for the style. Obviously many yeast work great but dryhop adds to the aroma and flavor but still let’s the hops be the star.

Dgallo, I just picked up a pack of DryHop, really excited to try this yeast. If you don't mind me asking, what temp do you usually ferment at with this yeast? Also do you use a starter? I'm looking at a OG of 1.068 for my next recipe.

Thanks!

 

[Dgallo]

Dgallo, I just picked up a pack of DryHop, really excited to try this yeast. If you don't mind me asking, what temp do you usually ferment at with this yeast? Also do you use a starter? I'm looking at a OG of 1.068 for my next recipe.

Thanks!

I dive the yeast over a range of temperatures. Pitch at 68 let it free rise to to 72/74 over 24-36 and the. Push it to 75/76 until it finish. I under pitch it too .5/.6

 

[flintoid]

My first Oat NEIPA. Many learnings from grinding and efficiency, to the mash water loss... to the insane finish of 1.003 FG

Color and taste are on point so far- still need to carbonate but it’s insanely promising. But this was the first time I did dry hopping and cold crashing in the fermenter. The yeast woke back up when I dry hopped at 70F- my wireless hydrometer and the bubbling was the evidence. I think that’s where my hop creep came from with a 6 day dry hop.

but with a 45F cold crash? Zero hop burn. Incredible. My losses in the primary fermenter will have me moving back to dry hopping in a modified keg. I might have only gotten 4 gallons out of a 6.5 gallon primary with the trub and a 8oz dry hop. I could have maybe gotten another 1/2 gallon or so but the hops clogged my floating dip tube.

severely under pitching 1318 has me loving the yeast again. There is no other way to use this yeast. Holy cow.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Not my best "beer porn" pics due to not using natural light, but this one came out fantastic! Simcoe/Amarillo NEIPA 6.4% (FG was 1.014) using voss kveik yeast. First time i used this yeast and it was fast! especially liked how clean the hydrometer sample was at 4days post pitch so no additional "cleanup" days was necessary. used highest % of oats I've ever used ~31% (approximately equal amounts of malted vs flaked oats) along with 32.8% each of 2-row and golden promise and 3.3% carahell. This beer is straight up orange juice to me. But what makes it shine even more is that it is my first beer Ive intentionally targeted Na in water profile. Final water profile was (according to beer smith and taking into account my tap water report) : Ca=104, Na=51, Cl=163, S04=108. Typically, my Na has been ~25ppm. The additional salt, I do perceive compared to my other brews, but in a VERY good way. Just like cooking with salts, a little additional Na helps the foods "pop" more (as opposed to simply adding salt directly too your plated food which just makes it "salty"). so this has greatly helped my flavor profile I think. Targeting ~50ppm of Na will definitely be something I do in future because I think it really has helped my hop flavor "pop" but doesn't come across simply as "salty". Love it. Even my friends who aren't really IPA fans have loved this "juicy" and very flavorful NEIPA. VERY easy drinker.

 

[Dgallo]

Not my best "beer porn" pics due to not using natural light, but this one came out fantastic! Simcoe/Amarillo NEIPA 6.4% (FG was 1.014) using voss kveik yeast. First time i used this yeast and it was fast! especially liked how clean the hydrometer sample was at 4days post pitch so no additional "cleanup" days was necessary. used highest % of oats I've ever used ~31% (approximately equal amounts of malted vs flaked oats) along with 32.8% each of 2-row and golden promise and 3.3% carahell. This beer is straight up orange juice to me. But what makes it shine even more is that it is my first beer Ive intentionally targeted Na in water profile. Final water profile was (according to beer smith and taking into account my tap water report) : Ca=104, Na=51, Cl=163, S04=108. Typically, my Na has been ~25ppm. The additional salt, I do perceive compared to my other brews, but in a VERY good way. Just like cooking with salts, a little additional Na helps the foods "pop" more (as opposed to simply adding salt directly too your plated food which just makes it "salty"). so this has greatly helped my flavor profile I think. Targeting ~50ppm of Na will definitely be something I do in future because I think it really has helped my hop flavor "pop" but doesn't come across simply as "salty". Love it. Even my friends who aren't really IPA fans have loved this "juicy" and very flavorful NEIPA. VERY easy drinker.

I feel like this is the first time I’ve seen you post a beer pic in here. Looks good. And I agree with you about adjusting NA. I actually have mine in the 70s for ipas and 100 for stouts and it just brightens flavors.

Did you use traditional Amarillo? Or did you use one of the noble t45 versions for GER (asking since I know you’re across the pond)

 

[jturman35]

Not my best "beer porn" pics due to not using natural light, but this one came out fantastic! Simcoe/Amarillo NEIPA 6.4% (FG was 1.014) using voss kveik yeast. First time i used this yeast and it was fast! especially liked how clean the hydrometer sample was at 4days post pitch so no additional "cleanup" days was necessary. used highest % of oats I've ever used ~31% (approximately equal amounts of malted vs flaked oats) along with 32.8% each of 2-row and golden promise and 3.3% carahell. This beer is straight up orange juice to me. But what makes it shine even more is that it is my first beer Ive intentionally targeted Na in water profile. Final water profile was (according to beer smith and taking into account my tap water report) : Ca=104, Na=51, Cl=163, S04=108. Typically, my Na has been ~25ppm. The additional salt, I do perceive compared to my other brews, but in a VERY good way. Just like cooking with salts, a little additional Na helps the foods "pop" more (as opposed to simply adding salt directly too your plated food which just makes it "salty"). so this has greatly helped my flavor profile I think. Targeting ~50ppm of Na will definitely be something I do in future because I think it really has helped my hop flavor "pop" but doesn't come across simply as "salty". Love it. Even my friends who aren't really IPA fans have loved this "juicy" and very flavorful NEIPA. VERY easy drinker.

Looks a lot like my last Simcoe/Amarillio which just so happens i added 44ppm or so of sodium for the first time also. I agree it help round out the hops.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

I feel like this is the first time I’ve seen you post a beer pic in here. Looks good. And I agree with you about adjusting NA. I actually have mine in the 70s for ipas and 100 for stouts and it just brightens flavors.

Did you use traditional Amarillo? Or did you use one of the noble t45 versions for GER (asking since I know you’re across the pond)

Ive posted 1-2 of my brews in this thread Im pretty sure, but agreed with appropriate amounts of Na to help make the flavors bright or "pop". I used the amarillo that YVH sends out. Took about 5-6days to get to me. BTW, I do appreciate your assistance with my first brew with Voss Kviek. BTW, I'm in north carolina so Im only a stretch south via the dreaded I95 (no big ponds on that road lol) from new york where Im pretty sure you are!

 

[Dgallo]

Ive posted 1-2 of my brews in this thread Im pretty sure, but agreed with appropriate amounts of Na to help make the flavors bright or "pop". I used the amarillo that YVH sends out. Took about 5-6days to get to me. BTW, I do appreciate your assistance with my first brew with Voss Kviek. BTW, I'm in north carolina so Im only a stretch south via the dreaded I95 (no big ponds on that road lol) from new york where Im pretty sure you are!

Lol my bad. I could have sworn it was @Northern_Brewer that I read posted this. My bad to all involved. All else reigns true though, looks good and upping the NA helps

 

[Genuine]

Now that's something I haven't done yet....I've added some NA to my pilsners but didn't give it much thought to a NEIPA. I have 2 packets of A24 Dryhop to use and I think I'll be brewing either this weekend or next. Usually for April I have my family's Brew and Q get together and I would bring a 5 gallon keg of neipa over. That's now up in the air so, I may brew for my own enjoyment

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Lol my bad. I could have sworn it was @Northern_Brewer that I read posted this. My bad to all involved.

No worries - I still haven't got round to brewing some of my planned hazy things, through a combination of time and getting distracted by some yeast and malt experiments. And now I'm shut in with time on my hands but am hundreds of miles from my brewing kit....

 

[couchsending]

Just listened to the CB&B with Matt Tarpey from the Veil. Yet another great brewer of what people would call “NEIPA” who doesn’t add any hops during active fermentation for their IPAs. If you don’t know Matt he was one of Shaun’s assistant brewers at HF in the early days along with Dan Suarez.

Done two beers recently with a blend of yeasts. Primarily S04, bit of S-33 and K-97. One was dry hopped solely at the very tail end of fermentation (.2 plato to go) and the other was allowed to ferment out then soft crashed for 36 hours then dry hopped. The hop character is so much more defined and pronounced in the soft crashed beer even with a lower hopping load. This has been my standard method for more than a year now but wanted to see if with this yeast blend there would be some compounds created with yeast still in suspension at higher temps... last time I try that method.

That beer was also spunded and dry hopped during some active fermentation so it should have had less O2 exposure/ingress. However the beer dry hopped after fermentation has way more hop expression with even less hops and “technically” more O2 ingress.

 

[HopsAreGood]

Just listened to the CB&B with Matt Tarpey from the Veil. Yet another great brewer of what people would call “NEIPA” who doesn’t add any hops during active fermentation for their IPAs. If you don’t know Matt he was one of Shaun’s assistant brewers at HF in the early days along with Dan Suarez.

Done two beers recently with a blend of yeasts. Primarily S04, bit of S-33 and K-97. One was dry hopped solely at the very tail end of fermentation (.2 plato to go) and the other was allowed to ferment out then soft crashed for 36 hours then dry hopped. The hop character is so much more defined and pronounced in the soft crashed beer even with a lower hopping load. This has been my standard method for more than a year now but wanted to see if with this yeast blend there would be some compounds created with yeast still in suspension at higher temps... last time I try that method.

That beer was also spunded and dry hopped during some active fermentation so it should have had less O2 exposure/ingress. However the beer dry hopped after fermentation has way more hop expression with even less hops and “technically” more O2 ingress.

Great info. I love reading posts like this. What temp did you soft crash to? And then what temp did you dry hop at?

 

[Dgallo]

Just listened to the CB&B with Matt Tarpey from the Veil. Yet another great brewer of what people would call “NEIPA” who doesn’t add any hops during active fermentation for their IPAs. If you don’t know Matt he was one of Shaun’s assistant brewers at HF in the early days along with Dan Suarez.

Done two beers recently with a blend of yeasts. Primarily S04, bit of S-33 and K-97. One was dry hopped solely at the very tail end of fermentation (.2 plato to go) and the other was allowed to ferment out then soft crashed for 36 hours then dry hopped. The hop character is so much more defined and pronounced in the soft crashed beer even with a lower hopping load. This has been my standard method for more than a year now but wanted to see if with this yeast blend there would be some compounds created with yeast still in suspension at higher temps... last time I try that method.

That beer was also spunded and dry hopped during some active fermentation so it should have had less O2 exposure/ingress. However the beer dry hopped after fermentation has way more hop expression with even less hops and “technically” more O2 ingress.

Agreed

 

[couchsending]

Great info. I love reading posts like this. What temp did you soft crash to? And then what temp did you dry hop at?

It depends a bit on the yeast you use and your setup. I had been using a high floccing yeast that only required a drop to 63 and it would clear really quickly. Moved to something a little less flocculent and it’s more like 58/60. I leave it at 60 for DH. 2-3 days as long as there’s no hop creep and then start cooling. I don’t crash usually. 5* in AM, 5* in the evening. Leave at 42 for a day and keg. I don’t go lower than 42 cause the conicals I have won’t maintain head pressure below that and I have to waste a bunch of Co2. I have one Unitank where I’ll go to 38.

 

[secretlevel]

It depends a bit on the yeast you use and your setup. I had been using a high floccing yeast that only required a drop to 63 and it would clear really quickly. Moved to something a little less flocculent and it’s more like 58/60. I leave it at 60 for DH. 2-3 days as long as there’s no hop creep and then start cooling. I don’t crash usually. 5* in AM, 5* in the evening. Leave at 42 for a day and keg. I don’t go lower than 42 cause the conicals I have won’t maintain head pressure below that and I have to waste a bunch of Co2. I have one Unitank where I’ll go to 38.

What's the reasoning behind 50's - low 60's for dry hopping? Janish mentioned that hop extraction is a little slower at cold temps, but he still saw full extraction at 48 hours. Are people worried about suck back?

 

[Noob_Brewer]

It depends a bit on the yeast you use and your setup. I had been using a high floccing yeast that only required a drop to 63 and it would clear really quickly. Moved to something a little less flocculent and it’s more like 58/60. I leave it at 60 for DH. 2-3 days as long as there’s no hop creep and then start cooling. I don’t crash usually. 5* in AM, 5* in the evening. Leave at 42 for a day and keg. I don’t go lower than 42 cause the conicals I have won’t maintain head pressure below that and I have to waste a bunch of Co2. I have one Unitank where I’ll go to 38.

By "hop Creep" i understand this as the restarting of the fermentation process after dry hopping. If this is correct, how do you visualize this? Often after dry hopping I see some CO2 bubbles coming to the surface which I always assumed was CO2 trapped in the bottom once the yeast settle out after soft crash. I have never seen, yet, any sort of krausen to reform or anything of that nature. So how do you visually assess whether hop creep is occurring? Thanks

 

[aaronm13]

The Veil are a fantastic brewery. Chubbles is one of the best TIPAs I've ever had. Just kegged my latest version yesterday and pretty much did everything the way couchsending set out. This will be my third time doing it this way and I wont go back to hopping during fermentation as the hops are so pronounced doing it this way. I'll post sample pic when I take the first proper pour. Sample I took yesterday was very encouraging even at that early stage.

 

[SRJHops]

What's the reasoning behind 50's - low 60's for dry hopping? Janish mentioned that hop extraction is a little slower at cold temps, but he still saw full extraction at 48 hours. Are people worried about suck back?

The main reason to dry hop below fermentation temp is to decrease polyphenol extraction and harshness, as well as reduce the chance of hop creep and diacetyl problems.

 

[Dgallo]

The main reason to dry hop below fermentation temp is to decrease polyphenol extraction.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0263876210003321

Not exactly, polyphenol extract mostly at higher temps. The reason people are avoiding fermentation hopping is because yeast will molecularly bind polyphenols to protein chains. By soft crashing prior to dry hoping you are reducing the number of yeast present from dragging hop oils with them when they floc out and as to reduce the amount of hop creep, which also since that is more fermentation, you are reducing the risk from it binding proteins and polyphenols

 

[couchsending]

By "hop Creep" i understand this as the restarting of the fermentation process after dry hopping. If this is correct, how do you visualize this? Often after dry hopping I see some CO2 bubbles coming to the surface which I always assumed was CO2 trapped in the bottom once the yeast settle out after soft crash. I have never seen, yet, any sort of krausen to reform or anything of that nature. So how do you visually assess whether hop creep is occurring? Thanks

Gravity readings. If after 2 days there’s no drop in gravity then I’ll start cooling. Sometimes I’ll do a forced diacetyl test but it’s been so long since I’ve had a positive for diacetyl that I rarely do them anymore. Pretty sure I’m rather sensitive to it, could be wrong. I’m also doing as much as possible (besides using the enzyme) to create as successful of a fermentation as I can in hopes that diacetyl won’t be an issue later on if there is some refermentation.

 

[SRJHops]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0263876210003321

Not exactly, polyphenol extract mostly at higher temps. The reason people are avoiding fermentation hopping is because yeast will molecularly bind polyphenols to protein chains. By soft crashing prior to dry hoping you are reducing the number of yeast present from dragging hop oils with them when they floc out and as to reduce the amount of hop creep, which also since that is more fermentation, you are reducing the risk from it binding proteins and polyphenols

I'm with you, but I read his question to mean what are the benefits of dry hopping cold. Though perhaps I missed the context..

As for dry hopping during fermentation or not, it seems to me that it doesn't have to be either or, does it? I am currently dry hopping at the end of fermentation, then soft crashing to 58, then cold dry hopping for 48 hours prior to bottling. I don't technically cold crash, other than chilling the bottles...

But help me understand more... Certainly the floccing yeast is going to pull out some hop oils/flavor, right? That would happen whether or not we dry hop during fermentation. So are you saying it's a waste of hops to add them during fermentation, because the flavors will just get pulled out anyway when I soft crash?

 

[secretlevel]

I'm with you, but I read his question to mean what are the benefits of dry hopping cold. Though perhaps I missed the context..

As for dry hopping during fermentation or not, it seems to me that it doesn't have to be either or, does it? I am currently dry hopping at the end of fermentation, then soft crashing to 58, then cold dry hopping for 48 hours prior to bottling. I don't technically cold crash, other than chilling the bottles...

But help me understand more... Certainly the floccing yeast is going to pull out some hop oils/flavor, right? That would happen whether or not we dry hop during fermentation. So are you saying it's a waste of hops to add them during fermentation, because the flavors will just get pulled out anyway when I soft crash?

Sorry, I really suck at questions. You're both right to a good extent, I'm just wondering if there's anything wrong with cold crashing all the way to 39 - 40F as opposed to 58 or 62.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Sorry, I really suck at questions. You're both right to a good extent, I'm just wondering if there's anything wrong with cold crashing all the way to 39 - 40F as opposed to 58 or 62.

If you are talking about cold crashing before dry hopping i.e. "soft crashing" I wouldn't think there would be anything wrong with that at all. It would just take more time depending on your system. I personally soft crash to 55 now with all my NEIPAs after fermentation is complete and I find that the yeast flocs out well. Have done this with conan yeast strains, A24 dry hop, and even Voss Kviek (although the kveik yeast flocs VERY well without the soft crash). I simply visually look for the beer to clear up as a sign the yeast has flocked out. I don't even hold soft crash temps that long either - once at 55 degrees I'm typically warming up to dry hop temps (65 degrees for me) about 20-24hrs later. Been working well for me. After my dry hopping is done, Ill start the hard crash to 38 degrees in preparation for kegging to get any remaining yeast and hop particulate to make a nice pancake on the bottom.

 

[Dgallo]

Sorry, I really suck at questions. You're both right to a good extent, I'm just wondering if there's anything wrong with cold crashing all the way to 39 - 40F as opposed to 58 or 62.

No nothing wrong with it but it takes longer. For us it’s not a big deal as home brewers but commercial brewers will crash to the highest possible temp to drop the yeast because it takes a lot longer and more energy (cost) to drop their volume size down to 40 than say 59

 

[jturman35]

A dumb question but do you guys do 90min boil when using Pilsner malt for this style?