New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

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oat malt can give a nice oatey flavor if ground fine. i like wheat malt more but 100% pale malt works great with low oxygen and awesome hops. A24 and 1318 are both bomb. need to compare them soon.
 
OK, I've been doing different trials recently - carboy vs keg, spund vs tank CO2, but I think this is my favorite. I went back to fermenting in a corny with CBDS. I chilled to 35F for a few days after primary was over and then warmed back up to 68F and dry hopped with a spund valve, anticipating the usual hop creep I always get. I got the usual hop creep but let it rest a week to work, clean up and spund at 30 psi. I just tonight moved to the keezer and took as sample. Holy balls, it has incredible hop flavor! It is starting to approach that super rich, resinous character that Alchemist beers have! i really need to do some side by side comparisons, but i think this is the best approach for me at least. now, i do always invert my kegs before serving for IPAs, so this process works for me if i get any premature settling of hop character due to some suspended yeast during dry hop.

Does anyone else go through primary, cold crash, warm back up to dry hop, spund and then cool to serve? i think Dgallo was talking about this at some point? Honestly, it seems really hard to argue with spunding for getting the best hop character. Like I said, i need to do some side by sides though. I'm open to suggestions for some experiments to try to nail this down more...

Also, on this beer I used Imperial A24 (dryhop) after several months away from it so maybe the yeast had some impact on the awesomeness too...
 
stickyfinger said:
OK, I've been doing different trials recently - carboy vs keg, spund vs tank CO2, but I think this is my favorite. I went back to fermenting in a corny with CBDS. I chilled to 35F for a few days after primary was over and then warmed back up to 68F and dry hopped with a spund valve, anticipating the usual hop creep I always get. I got the usual hop creep but let it rest a week to work, clean up and spund at 30 psi. I just tonight moved to the keezer and took as sample. Holy balls, it has incredible hop flavor! It is starting to approach that super rich, resinous character that Alchemist beers have! i really need to do some side by side comparisons, but i think this is the best approach for me at least. now, i do always invert my kegs before serving for IPAs, so this process works for me if i get any premature settling of hop character due to some suspended yeast during dry hop.

Does anyone else go through primary, cold crash, warm back up to dry hop, spund and then cool to serve? i think Dgallo was talking about this at some point? Honestly, it seems really hard to argue with spunding for getting the best hop character. Like I said, i need to do some side by sides though. I'm open to suggestions for some experiments to try to nail this down more...

Also, on this beer I used Imperial A24 (dryhop) after several months away from it so maybe the yeast had some impact on the awesomeness too...
Click to expand...

After sharing one of my homebrews with the head brewer at Ocelot(super great guy), he swore by pressurized fermentation. He said he doesn't want any of that hoppy goodness to escape. So I used to use a spunding on cornys (15psi) along with a cold crash. Not anymore though due to the 4'ish gal size constraints(due to req'd head space). I never inverted the keg though. Had thought about it, since the first few pours pull out all of the settled yeast and hops, which can sometimes be the most flavorful part. However, since that was the reason I cold crashed to begin with, I just never tried it. Anyway, I suppose one could just simply add another step. Transfer from fermentor to serving per usual with some keg hops, keep room temp, then drop to serving temps and fully carb as norm.

I'm planning on doing a similar thing on my current batch. Will be soft crashing in the fermentor, raising temps to 68, adding 2nd DH, then transferring to serving.
 
ttuato said:
I have an experiment to share with you all. There have been several experiments about oats vs wheat in neipa - usually flaked variety, But I have yet to stumble across malted oats vs wheat malt. I decided to do my own. I brewed two seperate small batch neipas:

80% TF Golden Promise
18% Crisp Malted Oats or Weyerman White Wheat Malt
2% Honey Malt
(Normally I decrease oats and use chit but I did not want to skew the foam/body comparison)

1oz gal WP of Citra
1oz gal dryhop of Citra on Day 3

Since these were small batches I could not do my usual cold side LODO but I figured it would be okay since each would have roughly the equivalent exposure to oxygen. After 24hrs dryhop (still some SG left), I transferred each to a uKeg to spund w/ a CO2 cylinder for backup. In day 14, no discernible difference, day 21 - oat had better mouthfeel & foam (shaving cream vs big bubbles for wheat) and malted oats slightly darker.

Here is day 28 - the difference in oxidation characteristics is shocking. Malted oats is much darker, the hops aroma has taken a huge hit BUT the mouthfeel & foam are significantly more "desirable". Malted wheat batch has okay foam that lingers for a minute and thin body, but the hop aroma & flavors are popping like crazy vs stale/oxidized for the malted oats brew.
View attachment 646560

I was originally planning to take pics every two weeks up till 8, but I feel like this is enough data for me to stop the experiment.

I have still have some malted oats to work through, but I will not be using in the future. I plan to switch to flaked barley for the body/head component after that and test again vs wheat malt.

Tangent - Another thing I am trying to quantify is the impact of polyphenols in hops on mouthfeel. The brew I made a while back that was solo dryhop of 1.5oz per gal of galaxy (known for high polyphenols) had the best mouthfeel of any beer I have ever made. It had malted oats but it was a split batch and the other had el dorado, citra, mosaic dryhop - the mouthfeel/body wasnt even close to the galaxy batch.

Cheers!
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing the experiment! I have been using BOTH malted oats and malted wheat in equal amounts (plus some flaked barley and carafoam; base is 2-row). I was thinking of maybe switching to just malted oats or wheat, but your experiment makes me think maybe I should stick with both, in search of the best of both. I have not had any oxidation issues, so maybe the combo is the way to go...?

That all Galaxy dryhop would scare me! It was tasty? When I used just a few ounces of Galaxy in the DH it turned into a phenolic mess that was barely drinkable, though it could have been the timing -- I won't be using it for the bio trans addition ever again...
 
Just throwing in a pic of a nice, clean, clear Helles to remind everyone there is more to beer than NEIPA.;)
Helles.JPG


And then my NEIPA next to the real deal Julius just so you know I'm not an NEIPA hater (but I only make 2 a year vs the 10 or so classic German lagers I make).
Guess which is real and which is mine...

Julius side-by-side.jpg
 
Cavpilot2000 said:
Just throwing in a pic of a nice, clean, clear Helles to remind everyone there is more to beer than NEIPA.;)
View attachment 646660

And then my NEIPA next to the real deal Julius just so you know I'm not an NEIPA hater (but I only make 2 a year vs the 10 or so classic German lagers I make).
Guess which is real and which is mine...

View attachment 646661
Click to expand...
I’m going with right.
 
Dgallo said:
I’m going with right.
Click to expand...
For the record, mine is the one on the right.
I think the glass shape makes the real deal look a little darker (I'm guessing you assumed oxidation). In person they were indistinguishable (in appearance - flavor was close but different hops blend - mine more tropical than orange-y (by design)).
 
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Cavpilot2000 said:
For the record, mine is the one on the right.
I think the glass shape makes the real deal look a little darker (I'm guessing you assumed oxidation). In person they were indistinguishable (in appearance - flavor was close but different hops blend - mine more tropical than orange-y (by design)).
Click to expand...
I was saying right since the head is tighter and better developed. I personally believe treehouse always has weak head formation.
 
Cavpilot2000 said:
For the record, mine is the one on the right.
I think the glass shape makes the real deal look a little darker (I'm guessing you assumed oxidation). In person they were indistinguishable (in appearance - flavor was close but different hops blend - mine more tropical than orange-y (by design)).
Click to expand...
Do you mind sharing your recipe? I guess I'm more curious your hops... what you used vs what you think TH uses?
 
JohnConnor said:
Do you mind sharing your recipe? I guess I'm more curious your hops... what you used vs what you think TH uses?
Click to expand...
I change up the hops every time, but I like a more tropical blend. THat one was Azacca, Citra, Galaxy. Next time I went with Azacca, Bravo, Citra - that one was pure pineapple juice.

Treehouse claims theirs is an all-american blend. I don't care to try to imitate their hops blend though, because if I want exactly Julius, I'll buy it. My goal is to take what I like about Julius (my favorite commercial NEIPA), and tweak it to my taste. I feel an NEIPA should still have a decent malt backbone and beer flavor vs. the notion that the malt should get out of the way and let it all be about the hops. And I think Julius has that in spades, which is why I based mine off of it vs. say, something by Trillium. I don't like Trillium NEIPAs because there's nothing to them besides the hops (plus I feel like they all seem to be overly acidic and tart).

My two cents.
 
Dgallo said:
I was saying right since the head is tighter and better developed. I personally believe treehouse always has weak head formation.
Click to expand...
Nah - mine had just dissipated some from the time I brought it up from my nasement keezer and then poured the Julius from the can and took the pic. Probably 1.5 minutes from pour vs just poured.
 
couchsending said:
Just remember that English malts are already much lower in protein than say standard American 2 row. A high protein base malt and some carafoam and you don’t need any adjuncts. If you hit the correct mash temps you’ll have a nice creamy body with haze and hop/flavor that will last longer.
Click to expand...

Lighting isnt great, but this is a Blonde Ale with A24. 3 gallon batch, 2oz Citra mostly in whirlpool. 80% 2 row, 10% C15, 10% carapils

I did add 28oz Goya frozen Guava and 14oz frozen Goya Passionfruit, are these high in pectin? anyway crazy hazy, so i am inclined to agree with you


IMG-3561.JPG

IMG-3560.JPG
 
Cavpilot2000 said:
I change up the hops every time, but I like a more tropical blend. THat one was Azacca, Citra, Galaxy. Next time I went with Azacca, Bravo, Citra - that one was pure pineapple juice.

Treehouse claims theirs is an all-american blend. I don't care to try to imitate their hops blend though, because if I want exactly Julius, I'll buy it. My goal is to take what I like about Julius (my favorite commercial NEIPA), and tweak it to my taste. I feel an NEIPA should still have a decent malt backbone and beer flavor vs. the notion that the malt should get out of the way and let it all be about the hops. And I think Julius has that in spades, which is why I based mine off of it vs. say, something by Trillium. I don't like Trillium NEIPAs because there's nothing to them besides the hops (plus I feel like they all seem to be overly acidic and tart).

My two cents.
Click to expand...
Totally agree. I just like see what other people are doing. What malts are you using?
 
Hannabrew said:
My only issue with A24 is how to make it last for more than one pitch. I hate pitching full starters and from what I remember it is not recommended to decant this strain due to the blend. How are you guys making the $12 pitch earn it's money?
Click to expand...
I decant it after cold crashing and overbuild my starter to save for the next time. I really like this yeast but have never tried it without decanting. Cheers
 
Hannabrew said:
My only issue with A24 is how to make it last for more than one pitch. I hate pitching full starters and from what I remember it is not recommended to decant this strain due to the blend. How are you guys making the $12 pitch earn it's money?
Click to expand...

A24 is a 50/50 blend of A4 & A20. Buy each separate, Over build starters and blend yourself at yeast pitch. Little more work but you can keep it going several generations this way and cut costs.
 
SRJHops said:
Thanks for sharing the experiment! I have been using BOTH malted oats and malted wheat in equal amounts (plus some flaked barley and carafoam; base is 2-row). I was thinking of maybe switching to just malted oats or wheat, but your experiment makes me think maybe I should stick with both, in search of the best of both. I have not had any oxidation issues, so maybe the combo is the way to go...?

That all Galaxy dryhop would scare me! It was tasty? When I used just a few ounces of Galaxy in the DH it turned into a phenolic mess that was barely drinkable, though it could have been the timing -- I won't be using it for the bio trans addition ever again...
Click to expand...

I saw a video somewhere of the galaxy hop growers, they said to use for dryhop only and not for the biotransformation version of dryhop.

In my experience, phenolic is a yeast/sanitation issue and picking up a wild yeast.

The all galaxy dryhop w/ Kveiking is top 5 beer I have ever made. Whirlpool was Citra/Bravo/Simcoe - equal parts, blend used at 1oz/gal.
 
ttuato said:
I saw a video somewhere of the galaxy hop growers, they said to use for dryhop only and not for the biotransformation version of dryhop.

In my experience, phenolic is a yeast/sanitation issue and picking up a wild yeast.

The all galaxy dryhop w/ Kveiking is top 5 beer I have ever made. Whirlpool was Citra/Bravo/Simcoe - equal parts, blend used at 1oz/gal.
Click to expand...

I'd be curious to learn why they said not to use Galaxy for the bio trans addition. But I think I can guess. In my experience, it seems too potent and the spicey/bitter/astringent phenols really stay suspended, though I didn't try to crash them out for that brew. Nowadays I have been soft crashing on Day 10 or so, then doing two more DH additions in the final 4 days. So, maybe I shouldn't be as afraid of Galaxy for a late DH.

(I have not had any bad or seriously off flavor phenol problems, but I do think my beers can be a bit spicey, which I attribute to the phenols from high AA hops like Galaxy.)

However, I think I am going to take Dgallo's and other folks advice and skip the bio trans addition altogether next time. Not that I think it doesn't add some citrus flavor... but I think it also adds some hop bite/spice, and I want to see if I can smooth out my beer a bit...
 
Haven't posted the latest. 2row, white wheat (about half/half), honey malt, carapils. Azacca/Citra/Mosaic. About 1.5oz/gal hops total. By FAR my best hazy IPA. Fermented in bucket. Put dry hops in strainer then in keg. Purging CO2 entire time transferring. Much simpler process and ended up with the best neipa-ish yet. Two+ weeks in keg now.
Screenshot_2019-10-04-13-42-17.jpeg
 
PianoMan said:
Haven't posted the latest. 2row, white wheat (about half/half), honey malt, carapils. Azacca/Citra/Mosaic. About 1.5oz/gal hops total. By FAR my best hazy IPA. Fermented in bucket. Put dry hops in strainer then in keg. Purging CO2 entire time transferring. Much simpler process and ended up with the best neipa-ish yet. Two+ weeks in keg now.View attachment 646803
Click to expand...
Atta boy!
 
stickyfinger said:
OK, I've been doing different trials recently - carboy vs keg, spund vs tank CO2, but I think this is my favorite. I went back to fermenting in a corny with CBDS. I chilled to 35F for a few days after primary was over and then warmed back up to 68F and dry hopped with a spund valve, anticipating the usual hop creep I always get. I got the usual hop creep but let it rest a week to work, clean up and spund at 30 psi. I just tonight moved to the keezer and took as sample. Holy balls, it has incredible hop flavor! It is starting to approach that super rich, resinous character that Alchemist beers have! i really need to do some side by side comparisons, but i think this is the best approach for me at least. now, i do always invert my kegs before serving for IPAs, so this process works for me if i get any premature settling of hop character due to some suspended yeast during dry hop.

Does anyone else go through primary, cold crash, warm back up to dry hop, spund and then cool to serve? i think Dgallo was talking about this at some point? Honestly, it seems really hard to argue with spunding for getting the best hop character. Like I said, i need to do some side by sides though. I'm open to suggestions for some experiments to try to nail this down more...

Also, on this beer I used Imperial A24 (dryhop) after several months away from it so maybe the yeast had some impact on the awesomeness too...
Click to expand...
That's funny. I really like this idea. But I thought spunding with hoppy beers got a bit of a black eye due to one of Janish's blog posts on the topic: http://scottjanish.com/fermenting-dry-hopping-pressure/ so I had basically been avoiding it.

Maybe your method produces a different results than what Janish did because you're ONLY spunding the dry hop creep. I'd love to try this as a split batch experiment since I have two identical fermentation kegs with CBDS.
 
PianoMan said:
Haven't posted the latest. 2row, white wheat (about half/half), honey malt, carapils. Azacca/Citra/Mosaic. About 1.5oz/gal hops total. By FAR my best hazy IPA. Fermented in bucket. Put dry hops in strainer then in keg. Purging CO2 entire time transferring. Much simpler process and ended up with the best neipa-ish yet. Two+ weeks in keg now.View attachment 646803
Click to expand...

Dude! Welcome back. Thought we lost ya! Your beer looks excellent! (Also love the glass. Go Big Red!)
 
SRJHops said:
I'd be curious to learn why they said not to use Galaxy for the bio trans addition. But I think I can guess. In my experience, it seems too potent and the spicey/bitter/astringent phenols really stay suspended, though I didn't try to crash them out for that brew. Nowadays I have been soft crashing on Day 10 or so, then doing two more DH additions in the final 4 days. So, maybe I shouldn't be as afraid of Galaxy for a late DH.
.
Click to expand...

Multiple reasons. You don’t need/want the excessive polyphenols in suspension for sure, leads to an incredibly harsh beer.

But also the right compounds need to be in the hop in order to benefit from biotransformation. I haven’t seen any studies on Galaxy but just looking at what oil content data I can find it seems as if it has no geraniol and not a ton of Linalool, two of the compounds that benefit the most from biotransformation. At least the two that I’ve seen the most data on. I’m sure there are all sorts of other pecursors and other bound thiols that contribute but from my experience Galaxy doesn’t really need much to leach its flavor into the beer. I think it’s best dry hopped a little colder too. Less weird ginger/dank and more passion fruit.

There’s still so much to be learned about the aroma impacts of hops. They’re starting to study Thiols more which I guess is hard cause there are very few places that can even evaluate them. From the sounds of it if the total oil content was a swimming pool the thiols would be like a pin head in said swimming pool. I guess they’re thinking that some of these thiols have a much bigger impact than any oils or total oil content.
 
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Doing an all Zythos batch and I was wondering yesterday evening why still no bubbling yet from the FV. Looked inside and everything was frozen solid, inkbird malfunction. Haha sweet. It happened early so I'm going to thaw and pitch a little more yeast and everything should be ok, the massive dry hop is what makes the beer anyways. If it turns out awesome maybe I'll work pre-fermentation freezing into my process.
 
VirginiaHops1 said:
Doing an all Zythos batch and I was wondering yesterday evening why still no bubbling yet from the FV. Looked inside and everything was frozen solid, inkbird malfunction. Haha sweet. It happened early so I'm going to thaw and pitch a little more yeast and everything should be ok, the massive dry hop is what makes the beer anyways. If it turns out awesome maybe I'll work pre-fermentation freezing into my process.
Click to expand...
Lol that’s so unfortunate. Keep us posted. I’ve had a keg freeze before and I felt like after i reset the carb it was sweeter than the original. No idea why though
 
VirginiaHops1 said:
Doing an all Zythos batch and I was wondering yesterday evening why still no bubbling yet from the FV. Looked inside and everything was frozen solid, inkbird malfunction. Haha sweet. It happened early so I'm going to thaw and pitch a little more yeast and everything should be ok, the massive dry hop is what makes the beer anyways. If it turns out awesome maybe I'll work pre-fermentation freezing into my process.
Click to expand...
The never ending joys of home brewing! Last year brewed my 1st Oktoberfest. Right at end of boil, the damn dags broke off a spigot to an outside faucet. Total maham. It sat hot for quit a while. Came out fantastic, praises from my craft beer nerd clan. IDK how to repeat that process, nor do I want to!
 
Dgallo said:
I have no idea. I didn’t word my post correctly. I meant like I’ve been looking in to trying these soon since they seem interesting
Click to expand...
Get samples. They do not taste anything like the hop varieties as you know them. Not in our opinion. We asked the glacier guy what we did wrong and he basically said that since the steam captures all the oils its the “true” flavor and we aren’t familiar with it. Being from bay area we are familiar with the “not a bug, its a feature “ pitch. We gave a hard pass.
 
SanPancho said:
Get samples. They do not taste anything like the hop varieties as you know them. Not in our opinion. We asked the glacier guy what we did wrong and he basically said that since the steam captures all the oils its the “true” flavor and we aren’t familiar with it. Being from bay area we are familiar with the “not a bug, its a feature “ pitch. We gave a hard pass.
Click to expand...
How recent was this? I’ve also seen this recently. Have any experience with this https://www.johnihaas.com/incognito/476309E5-3078-4570-8604-2053646A7932.png
 
My latest neipa with kvieking. It was the first time using it and I am a big fan. I have been on the A24 wagon for some time but I think this strain puts off more tropical esters. I fermented at 97 and wow this thing turned out great. I used el dog/mosaic/citra in WP and a new grain bill with 70% Pilsner, 8% malted oats, 8% malted wheat, 2% carapils. DDH with 6.5oz of mosaic/Medusa/I7. This brew may be able to metal in my next comp. I am just worried it will be past it’s peak since the comp it on November 1st. 04C2CC95-E198-48E5-B250-E49DB7C45D99.jpeg
 
nick sekerak said:
My latest neipa with kvieking. It was the first time using it and I am a big fan. I have been on the A24 wagon for some time but I think this strain puts off more tropical esters. I fermented at 97 and wow this thing turned out great. I used el dog/mosaic/citra in WP and a new grain bill with 70% Pilsner, 8% malted oats, 8% malted wheat, 2% carapils. DDH with 6.5oz of mosaic/Medusa/I7. This brew may be able to metal in my next comp. I am just worried it will be past it’s peak since the comp it on November 1st. View attachment 646955
Click to expand...
Looks good. Good luck if you end up entering it.

Did you under pitch? At I’ve really enjoyed use all kvieks this summer but I been using the tbs of slurry rate and keep having the esters trump the hops in the flavor which hasn’t been ideal for my preference. I’m just wondering if I up the pitch rate of I’ll have it complement the hops better
 
Last year. He dropped us samples on an area sales trip. It reminded me personally of wet hop flavor, but the resiny chemically flavor was just out of control.

My partner got a sample of incognito but i didn’t get a chance to try the batch they made. Good reviews.
 
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JohnConnor said:
Awesome. I've used vienna in my last couple IPA's and really enjoyed it. Actually producing my best recipes to date. Thanks!
Click to expand...

That's funny, I decided on a total whim to throw an IPA together with around 10 lb 2 row and 3 lb vienna and nothing but amarillo in the boil, WP and DH. Interesting enough to not be boring, but doesn't get in the way of the hops. I'm a fan as well.
 
Dgallo said:
Looks good. Good luck if you end up entering it.

Did you under pitch? At I’ve really enjoyed use all kvieks this summer but I been using the tbs of slurry rate and keep having the esters trump the hops in the flavor which hasn’t been ideal for my preference. I’m just wondering if I up the pitch rate of I’ll have it complement the hops better
Click to expand...

Yea I pitched at 0.5
 

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