New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Rob2010SS]

Without reading 500 pages of thread, do any of you guys use gelatin on this style? My NEIPA should be ready to keg Friday night, Saturday morning and I was going to cold crash it, but should I be fining with gelatin as well? I would think you WOULDN'T want to use gelatin, but not sure....

 

[dyqik]

No, gelatin will pull out hop haze and aroma as well as yeast still in suspension. That's ok in things like lager, but not here.

 

[TimmyWit]

Without reading 500 pages of thread, do any of you guys use gelatin on this style? My NEIPA should be ready to keg Friday night, Saturday morning and I was going to cold crash it, but should I be fining with gelatin as well? I would think you WOULDN'T want to use gelatin, but not sure....

That was my initial assumption as well. But, I had sort of a harsh bitterness that remained even two weeks after kegging; I believe some describe it as a "burn". Since I brew 15 gallons and split 3 ways, I was able to put 2 kegs on gelatin while leaving one alone for the sake of comparison. The two kegs that I added gelatin to went from being murky to hazy without losing any aroma and the flavor improved dramatically.

I posted these results a while back but I'll go ahead and drop the pictures off here again. The first picture is pre-gelatin. The second picture is after I added gelatin to the first two. The lighting is a bit off making the second pic appear a bit darker but you can see the difference in appearance - still hazy but not quite as murky.

From left to right yeast is OYL-057, 1318, S04

 

[Oldskewl]

This is in the keg and partially carbonated now (CO2 tank is running down though). I did a second dry hop in the keg with about 2oz of cascade pellets I had around, as the homegrown hops weren't giving enough. It's pretty tasty. Obviously it's a bit rough around the edges, as you'd expect from an all cascade brew, but it's definitely in the NE style rather than a classic cascade pale ale. Once it fully carbs up and the pellet hop dust drops out taking the bite with it, I think it'll be pretty good.

I guess I have a conclusion of "don't give up on cascade entirely just because there are all these fancy new hops available".

That grain bill is very similar to the Hop Hands recipe, minus the Honey Malt. Definitely a good way to let the hops shine and get a good feel for what they bring to the table.

 

[stickyfinger]

That was my initial assumption as well. But, I had sort of a harsh bitterness that remained even two weeks after kegging; I believe some describe it as a "burn". Since I brew 15 gallons and split 3 ways, I was able to put 2 kegs on gelatin while leaving one alone for the sake of comparison. The two kegs that I added gelatin to went from being murky to hazy without losing any aroma and the flavor improved dramatically.



I posted these results a while back but I'll go ahead and drop the pictures off here again. The first picture is pre-gelatin. The second picture is after I added gelatin to the first two. The lighting is a bit off making the second pic appear a bit darker but you can see the difference in appearance - still hazy but not quite as murky.



From left to right yeast is OYL-057, 1318, S04

I did a side by side batch of west coast ipa - fined one and not the other. no one could tell them apart in triangle tests. could be a different story if u have a ton of yeast in suspension though.

 

[Rob2010SS]

I did a side by side batch of west coast ipa - fined one and not the other. no one could tell them apart in triangle tests. could be a different story if u have a ton of yeast in suspension though.

That's the difference, you did a west coast IPA. A NEIPA has sooooo much more hops in it than the west coast style. When I sampled the wort of my NEIPA, I experienced what TimmyWit was talking about. It actually burned my throat on the way down because of all of the hops.

I'd be curious how many others actually fine the NEIPA style with gelatin...

 

[stickyfinger]

That's the difference, you did a west coast IPA. A NEIPA has sooooo much more hops in it than the west coast style. When I sampled the wort of my NEIPA, I experienced what TimmyWit was talking about. It actually burned my throat on the way down because of all of the hops.

I'd be curious how many others actually fine the NEIPA style with gelatin...

I have a couple points in reply to that, or at least things to think about.

1) There is no reason you can't add the same mass/volume of hops to a WCIPA as to an NEIPA. I routinely use the same hopping rates. However, the hops I use in WCIPA often result in a less hazy beer, as does the yeast. Also, the hops never seem to deliver the same wallop if I use the traditional WC hops - the dank, piney, grapefruit ones.

2) I have experienced the hop burn as well from using 2+ oz/gal in the dry hop. I am not a fan so I have dropped back down to 1 oz/gal in the dry hop. Others have reported the burn from keg-hopping with Cryo hops.

3) My favorite IPA of all time is Heady Topper. Is it a WCIPA? Is it an NEIPA? I don't think it really fits into either category. It has only dank, WC style hops and is FIRMLY bitter. But, it also has a metric load of hop flavor, more than many NEIPAs I've tried and a full rich mouthfeel and flavor. It is very very hazy when it is cold but as it warms it becomes more and more clear until it is merely hazy, like a cold WC IPA. It is certainly not a murk-bomb by any measure. I think it is maybe a perfect blend b/w a WC and NEIPA. I guess this is an entire debate, but part of my point is that there is a smearing b/w styles at some point, and I LIKE it!!

4) I can completely believe that some NEIPAs would benefit from fining. Does the yeastiness really add to the flavor? HT is an example. I doubt there is much yeast at all, since it dissipates as it warms up. Some NEIPAs are super yeasty, which can add to mouthfeel, but it can also add to coarse/harsh/unpleasant flavors. I think there is certainly room for fining with NEIPAs. In particular, I have consistently found that WY1318 produces a sub par beer for me until the beer has been in the keg for 2-3 weeks. Weird, but it always happens that I like the beer more as it ages a bit. I think part of that is the yeast dropping out some more.

5) Whirfloc - I've used and omitted whirfloc. It seems to me that the whirfloc-less batches are all super haze bombs all the way to the end of the keg, but are they better b/c they were hazy? I don't know.

 

[grassfeeder]

I have a couple points in reply to that, or at least things to think about.

1) There is no reason you can't add the same mass/volume of hops to a WCIPA as to an NEIPA. I routinely use the same hopping rates. However, the hops I use in WCIPA often result in a less hazy beer, as does the yeast. Also, the hops never seem to deliver the same wallop if I use the traditional WC hops - the dank, piney, grapefruit ones.

2) I have experienced the hop burn as well from using 2+ oz/gal in the dry hop. I am not a fan so I have dropped back down to 1 oz/gal in the dry hop. Others have reported the burn from keg-hopping with Cryo hops.

3) My favorite IPA of all time is Heady Topper. Is it a WCIPA? Is it an NEIPA? I don't think it really fits into either category. It has only dank, WC style hops and is FIRMLY bitter. But, it also has a metric load of hop flavor, more than many NEIPAs I've tried and a full rich mouthfeel and flavor. It is very very hazy when it is cold but as it warms it becomes more and more clear until it is merely hazy, like a cold WC IPA. It is certainly not a murk-bomb by any measure. I think it is maybe a perfect blend b/w a WC and NEIPA. I guess this is an entire debate, but part of my point is that there is a smearing b/w styles at some point, and I LIKE it!!

4) I can completely believe that some NEIPAs would benefit from fining. Does the yeastiness really add to the flavor? HT is an example. I doubt there is much yeast at all, since it dissipates as it warms up. Some NEIPAs are super yeasty, which can add to mouthfeel, but it can also add to coarse/harsh/unpleasant flavors. I think there is certainly room for fining with NEIPAs. In particular, I have consistently found that WY1318 produces a sub par beer for me until the beer has been in the keg for 2-3 weeks. Weird, but it always happens that I like the beer more as it ages a bit. I think part of that is the yeast dropping out some more.

5) Whirfloc - I've used and omitted whirfloc. It seems to me that the whirfloc-less batches are all super haze bombs all the way to the end of the keg, but are they better b/c they were hazy? I don't know.

I agree with this. I use pretty much the same weight in hops for my WC and NE IPA's. I've even used up the to the same percentage of white wheat as well. I never use a whirlfloc in my NE ones but always do in my WC ones. I also never cold crash and never secondary with either style. I am typically dry-hopping about 6 ounces. I've found that I get no added benefit of dry hopping more in my NE ones.

Biggest difference between the two is length I dry hop, when I dry hop, sometimes yeast. I can go grain to glass in about 8 days with NEIPA's as to where my WC ones takes the typical 14-15 days.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Well looks like i learned something today. I thought NEIPAs had more hops but that's only because the recipes Ive seen for both styles thus far indicated that.

In regards to the crash and fining, Im just aiming to eliminate that "burn" i noticed in the wort. I don't want that in the finished product, obviously.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Has anyone ever tried using Danstar Munich Wheat yeast (not their Munich Classic) in NEIPA? I'm considering pitching 1 pack of SO-4 and one pack of Munich Wheat in my on deck NEIPA.

The intent is to gain some fruityness.

 

[grassfeeder]

Has anyone ever tried using Danstar Munich Wheat yeast (not their Munich Classic) in NEIPA? I'm considering pitching 1 pack of SO-4 and one pack of Munich Wheat in my on deck NEIPA.

The intent is to gain some fruityness.

If that's used in Hef's then I would not suggest it.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

If that's used in Hef's then I would not suggest it.

It is suggested for that use. Why would that negate it?

 

[grassfeeder]

It is suggested for that use. Why would that negate it?

you're going to pull notes of the wrong fruits. Most Hef yeasts pull that banana clove taste. You want something that pulls tropical fruits.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

you're going to pull notes of the wrong fruits. Most Hef yeasts pull that banana clove taste. You want something that pulls tropical fruits.

Thanks! Based upon this (attached) flavor profile graphic, which of the Danstar yeasts appear to you as having potential? Windsor perhaps?

View attachment Danstar Yeasts.pdf

 

[dyqik]

Thanks! Based upon this (attached) flavor profile graphic, which of the Danstar yeasts appear to you as having potential? Windsor perhaps?

Windsor is very fruity, but it was maybe more in the berry flavor direction to my taste buds when I used it in a northern brown. Can't remember what temperatures I used though.

Kolsch yeast might work well, but that's liquid only, I think.

 

[braindead]

Do you guys ever bottle this?
I've only kegged it. But wondered if anyones bottled it, and how they avoided oxidisation

 

[milldoggy]

Has anyone ever tried using Danstar Munich Wheat yeast (not their Munich Classic) in NEIPA? I'm considering pitching 1 pack of SO-4 and one pack of Munich Wheat in my on deck NEIPA.

The intent is to gain some fruityness.

No, but drinking my klosch yeast version next to my F1 hybrid. Klosch yeast wins hands down. So you should try it. Never know, might be amazing.

I might make wlp029 the standard in use for NEIPAs

 

[Northern_Brewer]

you're going to pull notes of the wrong fruits. Most Hef yeasts pull that banana clove taste. You want something that pulls tropical fruits.

Not necessarily. If you look at the Tree House thread, you'll see that most of their beers appear to contain both T-58 (a Belgian yeast) and WB-06, a wheat beer yeast. Experiments suggest that S-04:T-58:WB-06 in a ratio of around 85:10:5 give a pretty good approximation to Julius etc - you're getting a bit of estery complexity without a pure banana clove thing, the way these things work is never 2+2=4.

Fermentis do a dry Kolsch yeast, K-97.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

If you look at the Danstar graphical flavor and aroma displays for their brewing yeasts you will see that it is their Munich Classic that tosses up tons of banana, wherein their Munich Wheat (the yeast I suggested using) exhibits far less of this trait. But Windsor exhibits no banana and the same relative level of tropical fruit as does Munich Wheat.

 

[EndOfLine]

So for kicks I just make a NE pale and used British Target hops in the WP and dry hop.... the flavor is bracingly strong British flavors: earth, spicy, floral, herby, and sage! Glad I did it, probably won't do it again. Will use Goldings next time

 

[Northern_Brewer]

So for kicks I just make a NE pale and used British Target hops in the WP and dry hop.... the flavor is bracingly strong British flavors: earth, spicy, floral, herby, and sage! Glad I did it, probably won't do it again. Will use Goldings next time

So you made a pale ale with British yeast and lots of British hops including as dry hops - isn't that just a 19th century IPA? What comes around....

I must admit even as a huge fan of British hops, Target would not be high on the list of varieties to use as a single late hop! 2016 was a poor vintage, particularly in East Kent, so I'd be tempted to wait for the (not much better, but still better and at least they'll be fresh) 2017 harvest. I'll never say no to Goldings, First Gold also works pretty well for this kind of thing, Goldings and Jester work really nicely together (if you can get Jester, it's a newish Faram variety). If you want something a bit different I'm a huge fan of Bramling Cross, although it can be a bit much on its own (I've a BX bitter bottle conditioning at the moment), Bullion is an unfashionable variety that does some similar blackcurranty things as a late hop.

 

[WiscoBrewer]

Has anyone ever tried using Danstar Munich Wheat yeast (not their Munich Classic) in NEIPA? I'm considering pitching 1 pack of SO-4 and one pack of Munich Wheat in my on deck NEIPA.

The intent is to gain some fruityness.

I made a honey hefe last month, at first taste, my thoughts were I need to try an NEIPA with this yeast or a blend of it. The mouth feel is exactly what I'm looking for and I think all the hops plus a blend would hide the clove/banana. You could also ferment in the low range to knock it down as well.

 

[EndOfLine]

So you made a pale ale with British yeast and lots of British hops including as dry hops - isn't that just a 19th century IPA? What comes around....

I must admit even as a huge fan of British hops, Target would not be high on the list of varieties to use as a single late hop! 2016 was a poor vintage, particularly in East Kent, so I'd be tempted to wait for the (not much better, but still better and at least they'll be fresh) 2017 harvest. I'll never say no to Goldings, First Gold also works pretty well for this kind of thing, Goldings and Jester work really nicely together (if you can get Jester, it's a newish Faram variety). If you want something a bit different I'm a huge fan of Bramling Cross, although it can be a bit much on its own (I've a BX bitter bottle conditioning at the moment), Bullion is an unfashionable variety that does some similar blackcurranty things as a late hop.

I really want to get my hands on first gold, as well as some of the other hops you have mentioned. I used American yeast, "flagship" from IMperial organic. I used a NE IPA grain and water profile too. Just a splash of American hops to blend with it

 

[Rob2010SS]

Just kegged my first NEIPA last night and man, the sample is amazing. Great color and great flavor/aroma. It has hints of pineapple that I feel are coming from the vic secret hops I substituted in place of galaxy hops in Brau's recipe. Can't wait for this thing to be carbed up and ready to drink. Came in at 7.2%.

 

[NHBrews]

Was wondering if anyone has tried keg priming to help reduce the oxygen that makes it into the keg? Only downside (or upside?) I could see would be impact on the dry hop flavor/aroma if done at the same time as one of the dry hop additions.

 

[hezagenius]

Was wondering if anyone has tried keg priming to help reduce the oxygen that makes it into the keg? Only downside (or upside?) I could see would be impact on the dry hop flavor/aroma if done at the same time as one of the dry hop additions.

Why not transfer to a keg at the tail end of primary fermentation and hook up a spunding valve? You get the benefit of biotransformation and the last bit of fermentation helps purge out the O2. Then crash, carb and serve directly from that keg.

 

[NHBrews]

Why not transfer to a keg at the tail end of primary fermentation and hook up a spunding valve? You get the benefit of biotransformation and the last bit of fermentation helps purge out the O2. Then crash, carb and serve directly from that keg.

I've had issues with my kegs getting clogging w/hop matter if I don't crash in my conical first. I suppose I could add a screen to the dip tube. Also, I add one dry hop at tail end of fermentation then another about 5 days later, have you tried doing only 1 dry hop addition? Your way would certainly allow for faster turnaround which would be nice. Seems like either method would help reduce O2.

 

[grassfeeder]

I've had issues with my kegs getting clogging w/hop matter if I don't crash in my conical first. I suppose I could add a screen to the dip tube. Also, I add one dry hop at tail end of fermentation then another about 5 days later, have you tried doing only 1 dry hop addition? Your way would certainly allow for faster turnaround which would be nice. Seems like either method would help reduce O2.

Or do what I do and dry hop on a hob back with weights. Never have to crash and never get hop matter in my kegs w/ direct transfer. I've noticed zero difference in flavor profile versus lose dry-hopping when doing side by sides.

 

[stickyfinger]

Was wondering if anyone has tried keg priming to help reduce the oxygen that makes it into the keg? Only downside (or upside?) I could see would be impact on the dry hop flavor/aroma if done at the same time as one of the dry hop additions.

I thought about it but haven't done it yet. My main worry was the keg lid losing pressure until the keg carbonated. I guess keeping it on just enough pressure to seal the lid for a few days should work.

 

[NHBrews]

I thought about it but haven't done it yet. My main worry was the keg lid losing pressure until the keg carbonated. I guess keeping it on just enough pressure to seal the lid for a few days should work.

I have keg conditioned other beers w/o issue. After transferring to the keg I hook up to CO2 at 12psi to "set" the lid then remove the CO2. Thinking is, fermentation from additional sugar added at kegging should keep pressure significantly higher than 12psi thus keeping lid tight. If you have a good seal on your lid you shouldn't loose any pressure

 

[stickyfinger]

I have keg conditioned other beers w/o issue. After transferring to the keg I hook up to CO2 at 12psi to "set" the lid then remove the CO2. Thinking is, fermentation from additional sugar added at kegging should keep pressure significantly higher than 12psi thus keeping lid tight. If you have a good seal on your lid you shouldn't loose any pressure

cool. try a side by side and report back

 

[jakturner]

Has anyone ever tried using Danstar Munich Wheat yeast (not their Munich Classic) in NEIPA? I'm considering pitching 1 pack of SO-4 and one pack of Munich Wheat in my on deck NEIPA.

The intent is to gain some fruityness.

I used this yeast a few times on a 3 floyds bubblegum head clone, it has very little in the way of esters in my experience. I have also used it with a few berliners and goses, came out very clean in that application too.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I used this yeast a few times on a 3 floyds bubblegum head clone, it has very little in the way of esters in my experience. I have also used it with a few berliners and goses, came out very clean in that application too.

Thanks for that! My focus is now shifting toward attempting a NEIPA fermented with only Danstar Windosr, which is profiled by Danstar as tossing up tropical fruit esters without introducing any banana or clove. On the MoreBeer website a guy stated (within the comments section on Windsor yeast) that he now rates it as his top NEIPA yeast, claiming that his brews using it rival Tree House and Trillium.

 

[marjen]

So how is everyone adding their dry hops? Loose? Bagged? I have been having some big problems with my last 6-7 batches all were horribly undrinkable. I have a thread going on the fermentation sub forum about it. The current thought is it is hop related and possibly from the massive dry hops not dropping out. I usually leave it in the fermenter between 7-10 days. I have had some great beers using that time frame and some horrible ones. Mostly using WY1318. I typically add 8 oz of loose hops into the primary between day 2-4. Sometimes split it between day 3 and 5. Anyway worried how to handle this going forward if that is my issue. How can I solve that problem? I don't cold crash currently or use any fining agents. I am brewing a batch now and cut my whirlpool and dry hops in half. I also used a bag in the kettle for the whirlpool hops to keep it as clean as possible going into the fermenter.

 

[milldoggy]

So how is everyone adding their dry hops? Loose? Bagged? I have been having some big problems with my last 6-7 batches all were horribly undrinkable. I have a thread going on the fermentation sub forum about it. The current thought is it is hop related and possibly from the massive dry hops not dropping out. I usually leave it in the fermenter between 7-10 days. I have had some great beers using that time frame and some horrible ones. Mostly using WY1318. I typically add 8 oz of loose hops into the primary between day 2-4. Sometimes split it between day 3 and 5. Anyway worried how to handle this going forward if that is my issue. How can I solve that problem? I don't cold crash currently or use any fining agents. I am brewing a batch now and cut my whirlpool and dry hops in half. I also used a bag in the kettle for the whirlpool hops to keep it as clean as possible going into the fermenter.

Tried all different ways. Last batch I did loose and added a inline. Details here

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=636379

Cleanest keg ever. First pour, zero debris. Had 10ozs in the conical, did not cold crash, contact time 7-10 days between two charges.

 

[stickyfinger]

So how is everyone adding their dry hops? Loose? Bagged? I have been having some big problems with my last 6-7 batches all were horribly undrinkable. I have a thread going on the fermentation sub forum about it. The current thought is it is hop related and possibly from the massive dry hops not dropping out. I usually leave it in the fermenter between 7-10 days. I have had some great beers using that time frame and some horrible ones. Mostly using WY1318. I typically add 8 oz of loose hops into the primary between day 2-4. Sometimes split it between day 3 and 5. Anyway worried how to handle this going forward if that is my issue. How can I solve that problem? I don't cold crash currently or use any fining agents. I am brewing a batch now and cut my whirlpool and dry hops in half. I also used a bag in the kettle for the whirlpool hops to keep it as clean as possible going into the fermenter.

Why were they undrinkable? What about them? Tasted bad? Too many hops in suspension? I've used up to 3 oz/gallon of pellets in the primary fermentor. I prefer 1-2 oz/gal and have been using 1 oz/gal of late with pretty good results. I just let them rest like 4 days to 2 weeks depending on life circumstances and then cold crash for one day and rack to a purged keg. I also always flush the headspace with CO2 after adding dry hops and try to ferment in a container that has only as much head space as is necessary (ie don't do a 2 gallon batch in a 6 gallon carboy, etc.) If using the cold crash, you have to make sure that there is a securely fit stopper in the neck so no air is seeping into the carboy as it crashes.

On one of my last beers I tried the fast dryhop method, and it seemed to give a very different hop character compared with even 4 days on the dry hops. I threw in all of my dry hops 24 hours before starting the cold crash and then racked to a purged keg 48 hours after initially adding the dry hops. The hop character seemed to be a lot less rounded and more edgy. It wasn't bad, just different. I'd like to do a side by side and only change the dry hop timing at some point. Seems like an area to play with for modifying what flavors the hops release for some reason.

 

[arnobg]

Let's talk starters. I know this has likely been asked already but I am not very good with the search function an couldn't find good content.

Does anyone pitch their entire starter or cold crash and decant? There is much care and effort with this beer to reduce oxygen however, pitching the whole starter may add some oxidized wort to the beer.

I ask because I am brewing later this afternoon but my starter just got put into the fridge due to time constraints. It's a 1.25 L starter so when I finish brewing should I just wait until tomorrow morning to pitch it so it has time to crash?

 

[hezagenius]

I've had issues with my kegs getting clogging w/hop matter if I don't crash in my conical first. I suppose I could add a screen to the dip tube. Also, I add one dry hop at tail end of fermentation then another about 5 days later, have you tried doing only 1 dry hop addition? Your way would certainly allow for faster turnaround which would be nice. Seems like either method would help reduce O2.

I always have a screen over my diptube for NEIPAs.

I'm gravitating towards 1 large dry hop at the tail end of fermentation. The less I have to open the fermenter to add more hops, the less likely O2 will get in. I find that my aroma drops off when I add a 2nd dry hop. Not really sure why. Maybe O2, maybe something else.

On my current 5 gal batch, I added 14oz of hops about 57 hours into the fermentation. The gravity was already at 1.014 so I don't think it had much more fermentation left. I purged it a few times afterward and hooked up the spunding valve at 7psi so hopefully any remaining O2 gets pushed out with the remaining fermentation.

 

[hezagenius]

Let's talk starters. I know this has likely been asked already but I am not very good with the search function an couldn't find good content.

Does anyone pitch their entire starter or cold crash and decant? There is much care and effort with this beer to reduce oxygen however, pitching the whole starter may add some oxidized wort to the beer.

I ask because I am brewing later this afternoon but my starter just got put into the fridge due to time constraints. It's a 1.25 L starter so when I finish brewing should I just wait until tomorrow morning to pitch it so it has time to crash?

I make my starter the night before, put it on the stir plate, and pitch the entire thing when it's about 16-18 hours old. The yeast is at room temp and already doing its thing so it hits the ground running. Use Pilsner DME and it should be very light in color.

 

[stickyfinger]

I make my starter the night before, put it on the stir plate, and pitch the entire thing when it's about 16-18 hours old. The yeast is at room temp and already doing its thing so it hits the ground running. Use Pilsner DME and it should be very light in color.

I pitch up to like 1.5L into a 5-6 gallon batch and don't really think it has a flavor impact other than reducing the gravity perhaps. I haven't done a side by side though. I think Brulosophy did something on this and it didn't seem to bother in the case they tested.

I'd be a little worried about starting a cold crash and then pitching only the most flocculant yeast if you don't let it sit long enough.