New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[morbster]

I think I read somewhere that the mid 50s is ideal for this style.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Apologies for the triple post. I let it warm up a bit and it definitely got better. What is everyone's serving temp

I think any beer served below 40F is a disservice to the beer. Most beers are great at 50F. Or should be, anyway. If your beer isn't good at 50F, your beer isn't good.

 

[Projectfdw]

I think any beer served below 40F is a disservice to the beer. Most beers are great at 50F. Or should be, anyway. If your beer isn't good at 50F, your beer isn't good.

It poured at 45. Got better around 50 but the nose came back around 57. I'm going to let it sit outside of the kegerator tonight in the basement and degas it a few times and see where it stands in the morning.

I've made enough mediocre beer to know this one was really good that's why I'm so bummed and also confused. I think it's down to one of the 3 aforementioned variables - keg, temp or carb. Just have to find what one.

I also have 4oz of hops in the keg so this stark decline in literally 48 hours seems just unfathomable unless I did something wrong.

 

[Braufessor]

Looking for some guidance. Kegged my latest iteration on Saturday. Tasted it flat and it was excellent. Did 30 psi for 24 hours. Tested again and it was just the best beer I've made. Looked great. Huge nose and juicy taste.

Fast forward to today. It's more carbed and has completely evolved. It's now a very bland tasting IPA with not much going on.

This is the 5th IPA I've kegged in this specific keg and I've noticed that each batch regardless of recipe tastes the same. I'm beginning to think it's the actual keg.

When I got this particular corny it had a very heavy cola smell. I've washed it every time after I keg a beer and before kegging another. This time I even had it in an oxyclean bath for a week. It still has a very faint cola smell. I clean everything else religiously.

Needless to say I'm totally bummed (my daughters communion party is in 2 weeks).

What says you guys? could it be the keg?

It is possible. Did you replace all the rubber gaskets on it? Usually the cola smell is coming from plastic/rubber parts as opposed to the steel.

Over the last few years, I have went to simply buying new kegs..... you can get them at pretty reasonable prices now without the hassle of dealing with questionable used kegs. I generally get these..... I have at least 6 now for sure. I have been very happy with them.
http://www.homebrewing.org/AIH-New-5-Gallon-Corny-Keg-Ball-Lock_p_5100.html

Other possibility..... could be your draft lines/faucet maybe? Also, when you say you "clean" the keg every time... do you take it completely apart? take posts off, apart, etc.? A keg should not smell like cola after a week long soak ....

 

[Braufessor]

Just want to correct myself here, I went with 1 tsp CaCL per gal and 1/4 tsp gypsum (so 150:50 chloride to sulfate ratio)

per gallon? or per 5 gallons? If you used 1 tsp and 1/4 tsp per gallon you have a lot more than 150:50. My recommendations are in the 1tsp per 5 gallon range.

 

[Projectfdw]

It is possible. Did you replace all the rubber gaskets on it? Usually the cola smell is coming from plastic/rubber parts as opposed to the steel.



Over the last few years, I have went to simply buying new kegs..... you can get them at pretty reasonable prices now without the hassle of dealing with questionable used kegs. I generally get these..... I have at least 6 now for sure. I have been very happy with them.

http://www.homebrewing.org/AIH-New-5-Gallon-Corny-Keg-Ball-Lock_p_5100.html



Other possibility..... could be your draft lines/faucet maybe? Also, when you say you "clean" the keg every time... do you take it completely apart? take posts off, apart, etc.? A keg should not smell like cola after a week long soak ....

By clean I mean taking it apart. I've changed the rubber as well. As far as lines I clean them with a good grade cleaner every time as well as the faucets. My non hoppy beers seem ok. And I have 2 other commercial kegs on tap now with no issue (oscar blues pils and a new Belgium sour).

I've been looking at new kegs and think I may do that. I'll use the other cornys for Brett and sour beers.

 

[RevKev]

By clean I mean taking it apart. I've changed the rubber as well. As far as lines I clean them with a good grade cleaner every time as well as the faucets. My non hoppy beers seem ok. And I have 2 other commercial kegs on tap now with no issue (oscar blues pils and a new Belgium sour).

I've been looking at new kegs and think I may do that. I'll use the other cornys for Brett and sour beers.

How many times have you used oxyclean? A good overnight soak in a very concentrated very hot solution should take care of it..

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

How many times have you used oxyclean? A good overnight soak in a very concentrated very hot solution should take care of it..

I do mine with that lemony fresh sent to get a head start on my next citrus IPA

 

[PlinyTheMiddleAged]

Looking for some guidance. Kegged my latest iteration on Saturday. Tasted it flat and it was excellent. Did 30 psi for 24 hours. Tested again and it was just the best beer I've made. Looked great. Huge nose and juicy taste.

Fast forward to today. It's more carbed and has completely evolved. It's now a very bland tasting IPA with not much going on.

This is the 5th IPA I've kegged in this specific keg and I've noticed that each batch regardless of recipe tastes the same. I'm beginning to think it's the actual keg.

When I got this particular corny it had a very heavy cola smell. I've washed it every time after I keg a beer and before kegging another. This time I even had it in an oxyclean bath for a week. It still has a very faint cola smell. I clean everything else religiously.

Needless to say I'm totally bummed (my daughters communion party is in 2 weeks).

What says you guys? could it be the keg?

Sounds like oxidation to me. I went through similar problems with my IPAs - short term, they were great but when they were carbed and ready to drink and share, they were bland; hops were gone; and they had a sweet taste.

I went to extremes on eliminating exposure to oxygen when transferring from the fermenter to the keg - it helped a lot. Now I'm working on the hot side as well.

Good luck - it's worth the effort!

 

[Projectfdw]

Sounds like oxidation to me. I went through similar problems with my IPAs - short term, they were great but when they were carbed and ready to drink and share, they were bland; hops were gone; and they had a sweet taste.

I went to extremes on eliminating exposure to oxygen when transferring from the fermenter to the keg - it helped a lot. Now I'm working on the hot side as well.

Good luck - it's worth the effort!

The more I think about it and research I'm starting to think it's my co2 tank or co2 lines. This problem's timeline is in direct correlation to when I went to a new co2 supply store. I'm currently soaking and cleaning my co2 lines and may look into getting the tank cleaned.

The commercial beers on tap are already carbed so the co2 is simply pushing it out. In my brews it's doing the carbing and I think that is the problem. Again, no way this beer goes from excellent to a muddled mess in 3 days from oxidation.

 

[jpb2716]

Again, no way this beer goes from excellent to a muddled mess in 3 days from oxidation.

For what it's worth, before I started paying close attention to oxygen exposure, I had several beers go from excellent to a muddled mess in a matter of a few days.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

per gallon? or per 5 gallons? If you used 1 tsp and 1/4 tsp per gallon you have a lot more than 150:50. My recommendations are in the 1tsp per 5 gallon range.

Braufessor: So is your current thinking 150:50 (C/S)? I thought you had shifted to more like a 120-140 each model.

I ask because while I've had good success with this style (except for longevity - that still sucks, so I am going to try a LoDO-ish method for my next one), I haven't done any water adjustments in my previous versions, so the mouthfeel definitely doesn't compare to, say Julius, which is my benchmark for NEIPA.

I'm going to try another one soon if I can stop brewing delicious German lagers for a second.

Also I was considering trying Bravo in the next one based on the last Hop Chronicle article. Any experience with Bravo?

 

[armenianbrewer]

per gallon? or per 5 gallons? If you used 1 tsp and 1/4 tsp per gallon you have a lot more than 150:50. My recommendations are in the 1tsp per 5 gallon range.

Per 5 gallons, another mistake in my post! Yikes, I need to be better about proof reading

(used bru'n water)

 

[pshankstar]

I've had good success with Bravo as the bittering hop and adding it as a dry hop to a DIPA I did over the winter. With that being said, I am going to make my first NE IPA this weekend and I am looking at this hop schedule using Bravo as the bittering and as a dry hop:

Keep in mind it will be an 11 gallon batch with 5.5 gallons in each fermenter, so the dry hops will be split between the two fermenters. Also, I am debating if I should add some Bravo in during the steep/whirlpool too... The jury is still out on this one.

2.00 oz Bravo [9.27 %] - Boil 60 mins 30.6 IBUs
2.00 oz Citra [12.55 %] - Boil 5.0 mins 8.3 IBUs
2.00 oz Exp. #07270 [15.68 %] - Boil 5.0 mins 10.3 IBUs
2.00 oz Falconer's Flight [8.75 %] - Boil 5.0 mins 5.8 IBUs
2.00 oz Citra [12.55 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 10 mins 7.5 IBUs
2.00 oz Exp. #07270 [15.68 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 10 mins 9.4 IBUs
2.00 oz Falconer's Flight[8.75 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 10 mins 5.2 IBUs
4.00 oz Bravo [9.27 %] - Dry Hop 4 days 0.0 IBUs
4.00 oz Citra [12.55 %] - Dry Hop 4 days 0.0 IBUs
4.00 oz Exp. #07270 [15.68 %] - Dry Hop 4 days 0.0 IBUs
4.00 oz Falconer's Flight [8.75 %] - Dry Hop 4 days 0.0 IBUs

Right now my water profile is looking like this (using 50/50 house water and RO water). I hope this is ok too.

Calcium (ppm) - 104.9
Magnesium (ppm) - 6.0
Sodium (ppm) - 10.5
Sulfate (ppm) - 68.0
Chloride (ppm) - 133.2
Bicarbonate (ppm) - 73.8
Mash PH - 5.4

 

[PlinyTheMiddleAged]

For what it's worth, before I started paying close attention to oxygen exposure, I had several beers go from excellent to a muddled mess in a matter of a few days.

Yes - that's exactly why I started being extremely careful when moving beer from fermenter to keg. It was a matter of a few days before beer went from tasty to definitely not tasty. The worst one was when I pulled a hop bag out of the keg and forgot to flush the headspace until the next morning. Beer went from good to complete crap overnight. IPAs will definitely "highlight" any exposure to oxygen - hop flavors plummet.

Some folks don't seem to mind oxidized beers. For whatever reason, I'm really sensitive to it - maybe because I've had access to really nice examples of fresh IPAs. I've had really nice, bright examples of Pliny the Elder from Russian River - and I've also had fresh bottles direct from the brewery that are complete garbage because of oxidation.

Best thing I ever did for my homebrewed IPAs was to limit exposure to oxygen.

Good luck, Projectfdw, in addressing your problem. I hope you figure it out soon - An IPA is a terrible thing to waste!

PlinyTheMiddleAged

 

[Projectfdw]

Yes - that's exactly why I started being extremely careful when moving beer from fermenter to keg. It was a matter of a few days before beer went from tasty to definitely not tasty. The worst one was when I pulled a hop bag out of the keg and forgot to flush the headspace until the next morning. Beer went from good to complete crap overnight. IPAs will definitely "highlight" any exposure to oxygen - hop flavors plummet.

Some folks don't seem to mind oxidized beers. For whatever reason, I'm really sensitive to it - maybe because I've had access to really nice examples of fresh IPAs. I've had really nice, bright examples of Pliny the Elder from Russian River - and I've also had fresh bottles direct from the brewery that are complete garbage because of oxidation.

Best thing I ever did for my homebrewed IPAs was to limit exposure to oxygen.

Good luck, Projectfdw, in addressing your problem. I hope you figure it out soon - An IPA is a terrible thing to waste!

PlinyTheMiddleAged

Thanks. I'm definitely going to start doing an oxygen free purge. Thinking I will begin to use an extra corny as my primary fermenting vessel.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I've had good success with Bravo as the bittering hop and adding it as a dry hop to a DIPA I did over the winter. With that being said, I am going to make my first NE IPA this weekend and I am looking at this hop schedule using Bravo as the bittering and as a dry hop:

Keep in mind it will be an 11 gallon batch with 5.5 gallons in each fermenter, so the dry hops will be split between the two fermenters. Also, I am debating if I should add some Bravo in during the steep/whirlpool too... The jury is still out on this one.

2.00 oz Bravo [9.27 %] - Boil 60 mins 30.6 IBUs
2.00 oz Citra [12.55 %] - Boil 5.0 mins 8.3 IBUs
2.00 oz Exp. #07270 [15.68 %] - Boil 5.0 mins 10.3 IBUs
2.00 oz Falconer's Flight [8.75 %] - Boil 5.0 mins 5.8 IBUs
2.00 oz Citra [12.55 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 10 mins 7.5 IBUs
2.00 oz Exp. #07270 [15.68 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 10 mins 9.4 IBUs
2.00 oz Falconer's Flight[8.75 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 10 mins 5.2 IBUs
4.00 oz Bravo [9.27 %] - Dry Hop 4 days 0.0 IBUs
4.00 oz Citra [12.55 %] - Dry Hop 4 days 0.0 IBUs
4.00 oz Exp. #07270 [15.68 %] - Dry Hop 4 days 0.0 IBUs
4.00 oz Falconer's Flight [8.75 %] - Dry Hop 4 days 0.0 IBUs

Right now my water profile is looking like this (using 50/50 house water and RO water). I hope this is ok too.

Calcium (ppm) - 104.9
Magnesium (ppm) - 6.0
Sodium (ppm) - 10.5
Sulfate (ppm) - 68.0
Chloride (ppm) - 133.2
Bicarbonate (ppm) - 73.8
Mash PH - 5.4

If I may, Your use of four different hops (actually a lot more since Falconers Flight is a blend), may be a little overkill in the sense of flavor overload.

Think of it like eating Skittles: pair a red and a purple: delicious berry blend; a yellow and a green for a nice citrus blend - maybe add an orange in for depth. But if you take one of every color and eat them at once, you get a muddled fruit melange that lacks any kind of focus.

My first NEIPA was like that - I used five different hops (including Falc Flt), and while it was tasty, it had no focus. Since then I have been trying to rein it in - citrus on this one, tropical fruit on that one, etc.
(FWIW, I am not familiar with the experimental variety you listed).

Nowadays I use not more than three varieties in any given beer.
Just my two cents.

 

[jjw5015]

If I may, Your use of four different hops (actually a lot more since Falconers Flight is a blend), may be a little overkill in the sense of flavor overload.

Think of it like eating Skittles: pair a red and a purple: delicious berry blend; a yellow and a green for a nice citrus blend - maybe add an orange in for depth. But if you take one of every color and eat them at once, you get a muddled fruit melange that lacks any kind of focus.

My first NEIPA was like that - I used five different hops (including Falc Flt), and while it was tasty, it had no focus. Since then I have been trying to rein it in - citrus on this one, tropical fruit on that one, etc.
(FWIW, I am not familiar with the experimental variety you listed).

Nowadays I use not more than three varieties in any given beer.
Just my two cents.

Red and purple skittles...mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[pshankstar]

If I may, Your use of four different hops (actually a lot more since Falconers Flight is a blend), may be a little overkill in the sense of flavor overload.

Think of it like eating Skittles: pair a red and a purple: delicious berry blend; a yellow and a green for a nice citrus blend - maybe add an orange in for depth. But if you take one of every color and eat them at once, you get a muddled fruit melange that lacks any kind of focus.

My first NEIPA was like that - I used five different hops (including Falc Flt), and while it was tasty, it had no focus. Since then I have been trying to rein it in - citrus on this one, tropical fruit on that one, etc.
(FWIW, I am not familiar with the experimental variety you listed).

Nowadays I use not more than three varieties in any given beer.
Just my two cents.

That makes complete sense! Maybe I would take the Bravo out as a dry hop and keep it for the bittering only. I've really enjoyed it as my bittering hop for the beers I've made in the past. After the bittering addition I would keep it to only three hops (for aroma and flavor) which I thought would pair well together.

Based on Beersmith:
Citra - Aroma: Adds interesting citrus and tropical fruit character to the beer.
Falconer's Flight - Aroma: distinct tropical, citrus, floral, lemon and grapefruit tones.
Exp. #07270 - (information pulled from vendor when I bought it) 07270 is tangerine/mandarin on the nose and ripe peach/apricot and mango on the tongue. We have noticed some spice in the mix as well.

I figured the Citra and Falconer's Flight would go together given the "citrus & tropical" characters. The 07270 I thought might be a nice complement with it's description to go with the other two hops.

Thanks again for your input!

 

[Braufessor]

Braufessor: So is your current thinking 150:50 (C/S)? I thought you had shifted to more like a 120-140 each model.

I ask because while I've had good success with this style (except for longevity - that still sucks, so I am going to try a LoDO-ish method for my next one), I haven't done any water adjustments in my previous versions, so the mouthfeel definitely doesn't compare to, say Julius, which is my benchmark for NEIPA.

I'm going to try another one soon if I can stop brewing delicious German lagers for a second.

Also I was considering trying Bravo in the next one based on the last Hop Chronicle article. Any experience with Bravo?

I don't have strong feelings one way or another beyond 75-150 range for both. All of my recent batches have been 125:125 or so.

I have never used Bravo....so, I can't be much help there.

I hear you on the "german lagers"...... I have been doing the same. Been on primarily a pilsner kick lately. Of course, I just used up the last of my sack of pilsner malt, so it looks like I am forced to concentrate on IPA's and Amber ales for a while

 

[morbster]

I tossed in 2.5oz of dry hops yesterday (citra/mosaic) after 3 days of fermentation. The krausen was falling, and it has now been replaced by a hop cake on top. Should I do anything to get the hops mixed with the beer, or should I expect it to naturally fall and mix in over the next few days?

 

[murphyslaw]

If I may, Your use of four different hops (actually a lot more since Falconers Flight is a blend), may be a little overkill in the sense of flavor overload.

Think of it like eating Skittles: pair a red and a purple: delicious berry blend; a yellow and a green for a nice citrus blend - maybe add an orange in for depth. But if you take one of every color and eat them at once, you get a muddled fruit melange that lacks any kind of focus.

My first NEIPA was like that - I used five different hops (including Falc Flt), and while it was tasty, it had no focus. Since then I have been trying to rein it in - citrus on this one, tropical fruit on that one, etc.
(FWIW, I am not familiar with the experimental variety you listed).

Nowadays I use not more than three varieties in any given beer.
Just my two cents.

I'm with you on hops, but I love shoving an handful of skittles in my mouth all at once. Delicious!

 

[Sbe2]

I tossed in 2.5oz of dry hops yesterday (citra/mosaic) after 3 days of fermentation. The krausen was falling, and it has now been replaced by a hop cake on top. Should I do anything to get the hops mixed with the beer, or should I expect it to naturally fall and mix in over the next few days?

In my experience they fall naturally. If you were so inclined, you could cold crash, which will make them drop.

 

[Braufessor]

I tossed in 2.5oz of dry hops yesterday (citra/mosaic) after 3 days of fermentation. The krausen was falling, and it has now been replaced by a hop cake on top. Should I do anything to get the hops mixed with the beer, or should I expect it to naturally fall and mix in over the next few days?

I find that they fall also. Plus, I move my fermenter a day or two before racking onto a counter and I think that helps knock more of them down to the bottom if they aren't already.

 

[armenianbrewer]

Anyone ever naturally carbonate this style after racking from dry hopping keg to serving keg? Or from racking from fermenter to keg with hops and priming sugar?

 

[Braufessor]

Anyone ever naturally carbonate this style after racking from dry hopping keg to serving keg? Or from racking from fermenter to keg with hops and priming sugar?

I have not..... probably has both pro and con.

Pro: oxygen scavenging of the yeast as it carbonates should be a good thing for the beer.

Con: You have to wait 2 weeks for carbonation to happen..... so, is there any adverse effect due to the beer being "older"? Is that cancelled out by the fact that there should be less of an oxygen issue?

I think it is definitely worth a try.

 

[popquizkid]

Anyone ever naturally carbonate this style after racking from dry hopping keg to serving keg? Or from racking from fermenter to keg with hops and priming sugar?

I did a LODO version of this. I added the priming sugar to primary 2 hours before transfer so it was actively starting to ferment as I transferred. I had whole hops in serving keg and used a spunding valve on keg. The beer was fantastic and two months out from brew date when it kicked it was still very fresh and had not faded at all.

 

[armenianbrewer]

I have not..... probably has both pro and con.

Pro: oxygen scavenging of the yeast as it carbonates should be a good thing for the beer.

Con: You have to wait 2 weeks for carbonation to happen..... so, is there any adverse effect due to the beer being "older"? Is that cancelled out by the fact that there should be less of an oxygen issue?

I think it is definitely worth a try.

I did a LODO version of this. I added the priming sugar to primary 2 hours before transfer so it was actively starting to ferment as I transferred. I had whole hops in serving keg and used a spunding valve on keg. The beer was fantastic and two months out from brew date when it kicked it was still very fresh and had not faded at all.

Well considering this is my first more "true" attempt at the style, I might seriously considering giving this method a go if it means I'll still be able to maintain the style appearance, the really juicy flavors and so on and so forth.

So here's my updated plan... After primary is where I'd like it to be, I'm going to transfer to a sanitized and CO2 flushed keg which will have one of those stainless steel mesh tubes with my 2nd round of dry hopping hanging from a tab on my keg lid (ordered one of those corny keg lids that have the tab). I also have a super fine mesh bag that I can also use. But either way, I'll hang some dry hops in this keg and let it sit for say 2-3 days then transfer to another serving keg that will be purged and flushed with priming sugar sitting on the bottom of the keg... then I'll leave it alone for 2 weeks at room temp and then toss it in the fridge!

My normal process is already to hook up at serving pressure for a week before dispensing so it's really not waiting *that* much longer than what I do currently

Will come back with updates!

 

[Braufessor]

Well considering this is my first more "true" attempt at the style, I might seriously considering giving this method a go if it means I'll still be able to maintain the style appearance, the really juicy flavors and so on and so forth.

So here's my updated plan... After primary is where I'd like it to be, I'm going to transfer to a sanitized and CO2 flushed keg which will have one of those stainless steel mesh tubes with my 2nd round of dry hopping hanging from a tab on my keg lid (ordered one of those corny keg lids that have the tab). I also have a super fine mesh bag that I can also use. But either way, I'll hang some dry hops in this keg and let it sit for say 2-3 days then transfer to another serving keg that will be purged and flushed with priming sugar sitting on the bottom of the keg... then I'll leave it alone for 2 weeks at room temp and then toss it in the fridge!

My normal process is already to hook up at serving pressure for a week before dispensing so it's really not waiting *that* much longer than what I do currently

Will come back with updates!

One other thought in regard to the application of LODO technique in regard to this beer. If the full complement of LODO process is used..... the Na-Meta additions will obviously change the mineral profile somewhat and add sulfate. So, that would just be something to account for in the process as well.
I think the process you have above for kegging, keg-priming looks good though. Be interested to hear how it works for you.

 

[popquizkid]

One other thought in regard to the application of LODO technique in regard to this beer. If the full complement of LODO process is used..... the Na-Meta additions will obviously change the mineral profile somewhat and add sulfate. So, that would just be something to account for in the process as well.
I think the process you have above for kegging, keg-priming looks good though. Be interested to hear how it works for you.

Good point. I did LODO with your mineral additions in recipe and thought I needed to dial them back a bit for the next batch.