Noob question - Do you add sugar to the barrel

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Hi all, I've been reading posts on this site for weeks now and it has given some fantastic advice. I am 5 days into fermenting my first brew (Black Rock Whispering Wheat) and I would appreciate some guidence.

Firstly, it said on the instructions that when bottling I should add sugar into the bottle, but I want to barrel it for convenience. I know (from other threads) that the sugar is supposed to add carbonation to the bottles not sweetness but do I still need to add sugar to the barel? I have an S30 cap with CO2 injector system but I would prefer to only use it in emergencies. Any help appreciated. Do people genrally recommend always using a S30 cap? I am going to order another 2 barrels and I am wondering if the additional expense is really needed.

The second nooby question is measurement terminology. I am getting into homebrew in order to have a crack at some speciality beers. My favvy is Erdinger and someone has posted a clone recepie on here. When someone says you need:

4.4# Wheat Dry Extract (62.5%)
or
4# Pilsner Malt

what the hell does the # mean?

Usually people talk in Lbs, oz's etc but I have no idea what unit of measurement this is (I'm from the UK and this might be an American thing).

Thanks in advance, your knowledge will be put to a good cause ;-)

 

[frankieboy007]

I can help with the second question: # means number of lbs of the specific grain or extract to use. Not exactly sure where the use of the '#' originated, but you might be right! I've been brewing for years, but still haven't plunged into kegging, due to limited space ( for the time being, hehehe). Hope this helps!

 

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Many thanks, I suspected it was Lbs but I've never seen it expressed in that way. How on earth can't you have room for a keg but room for 40 odd bottles lol. And the thought of cleaning out 40 bottles Dammmnnnnn. I'm going to order some grain now I know what a # is and take the next step up the ladder.

Still not sure on the sugar for kegging routine. Some seem to suggest you add about 85grams for 40 Ltr tank, others say barrel can't take preassure and after a few pints it wil go flat anyhow. If anyone has some experience of kegging I would still appreciate some advice.

 

[sweetcell]

just curious - are you going to use an actual wodden barrel?

unless you want flat beer, you need some way of a) getting CO2 into the liquid and b) a way of preventing it from escaping.

a) carbonation: you can either add sugar and "naturally" produce CO2, or you can pressurize the container with an external source of CO2 and force it into the liquid (it will do so naturally with time, but shaking makes it happen faster). so it is up to you how you carbonate your beer, both methods are valid and both will work in a barrel. if you don't want to use a CO2 cartrige, then you'll need to use sugar (or some other fermentable). the one downside of kegging/barreling with sugar only is that the beer will become flatter as you consume it - as beer is removed, there is more space (head-space) inside the barrel for the CO2 to escape to. using a CO2 tank means that you can inject additional CO2 to make up for the newly created space, thus ensuring that pressure remains constant inside the barrel. you can also use both methods, if you have the right set-up: use sugar to do initial carbonation, then bring in CO2 to ensure constant pressure (or even complement the sugar, if it didn't get the whole job done).

b) once the container is pressurized with CO2, you need to hold on to that pressure lest it escape and your beer go flat again. if your barrel can't hold pressure, then it doesn't make a difference where the carbonation comes from - it'll leak out. i mention this somewhat obvious point only because you stated that some questioned whether your barrel can handle the pressure... if you have a leaky barrel, or one that will fail under the pressure, then you're in for some flat beer or a mess. a further subtlety is that you'll want a system that will allow you to extract beer from the barrel without releasing all the pressure. so you can't just open it up and laddle out the beer, you'll want some sort of a tap system.

does this answer your questions?

 

[Hang Glider]

in the US, we typically refer to them as kegs, they hold 5 gallons US, and no, if you have CO2, you don't have to use sugar. If we bottle, we add the sugar to 500ml water, boil for 10 minutes, and add to a clean, sanitized bucket. Then siphon the beer onto the sugar-water, so it swirls well. You can stir gently at this point, but splashing and aereation are not good for beer. Air is only good for the yeast BEFORE they begin their job. Oxygenated beer tastes like wet cardboard.

 

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Thanks guys that does answer the question. I will use a combination of the two (add sugar and use the CO2 when needed) like sweetcell suggested. It all sounds like common sense but I just didn't want to spoil my first batch. I am using a plastic beer pressure keg I bought from Balliihoo and I am hoping it is of decent quality. Can you tell me does the sugar add fizz to the beer or does it just create pressure in the barrel to help force out the beer through thre tap.

I am also wondering if adding the sugar in secondary increases the alchohol content as I am assuming it reactivates the yeast and starts a second fermentation period.

Regarding getting the sugar in I read that some people boil the sugar up in water (or a sample of the fermented beer) and add it to the keg after filling and give it a good shake when the cap is put back on (this stops air being circulated). Does this sound right?

Thanks again for all the help. I will probably be kegging it in the next 24 hours.

 

[Revvy]

He's not using kegs like you're thinking or a wooden barrel, he's using a UK Pressure barrel.

Honestly we don't have a lot of folks who use them here, hence the confusion by folks. Your best bet is to post this question on a UK brewing forum, or aussie brewer, where these things are more common.

They're not like metal kegs on here that others have assumed.

I seem to be the only american brewer on here who has ever bothered to google and look for info on these things, for when you guys come on on occasion.

Here's a thread for you.


Homebrew Barrels

But before you do anything, make sure the advice your using actually comes from someone who knows the difference between a PLASTIC pressure barrel, and a METAL keg, or else you could have a mess....you don't treat them the same way.

 

[sweetcell]

I seem to be the only american brewer on here who has ever bothered to google and look for info on these things, for when you guys come on on occasion.

well aren't you just special!

i did google "S30 cap" - the only hint we got about what this person is working with - and unfortunately didn't come up with anything conclusive. i saw what kind of a cap it was, but apparently they're used for all sorts of containers - more that aren't even used for beer (why you'd have a contained that isn't used for beer is beyond me, but to each their own).

 

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Well I'll be..... I thought plastic kegs/Barrels were common place in most countries. The keg I bought is here:

http://www.balliihoo.co.uk/balliiho...th-full-co2-injection-system-system-p-10.html

And a S30 piercing valve is here:

http://www.balliihoo.co.uk/2-pressure-barrel-cap-with-s30-valve-piercing-pin-type-p-11.html[/url]

Just in case you guys are curious how the other side lives lol.

Many thanks for the link Revvy. I've decided to put in the 65g (some say 85g so this should be safe) of sugar as recommended in the link and use the CO2 as back-up. Thanks again for all comments, very constructive.

 

[Revvy]

" - the only hint we got about what this person is working with -.

The only hints you needed was that his location was "Location: Sunderland, Tyne and Wear" (Clearly English) and he called it barrel.....

The same clues I've always had...so maybe if I could manage to figure it out, then perhaps I AM special. At least that's what the bus I got to ride to school was called.

*shrug* No Biggie, it happens every time one of these Brits comes on here.

 

[cbmikey]

This is a wee bit off topic but I've been lurking here quite a while and just posting recently. Revvy seems to be an expert compared to most of the knuckle-draggers here and you all might want to listen to him and not poke fun.

Revvy: you will most likely have fun with this site: have fun with idiots

Terminator: This is what we mean when we talk about kegs in the States:
Here you go

 

[Revvy]

Revvy: you will most likely have fun with this site: have fun with idiots

Yeah we actually beat that one to death on here when it first came out.

 

[sweetcell]

I seem to be the only american brewer on here who has ever bothered to google and look for info on these things

The only hints you needed was that his location was "Location: Sunderland, Tyne and Wear" (Clearly English) and he called it barrel....

to me, those statement comes across as showing off - which is entirely out of character for you. maybe that's why i called you out for it (or i tried... my degree of success was highly questionable).

maybe i'm just misreading things here. probably. back to our regular programming

 

[cbmikey]

Yeah we actually beat that one to death on here when it first came out.

Ah far out. Ok then I'm tardy to the party!

 

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Well it's not like a brit to cause a war ^.^

Anyway thanks again. This site has nearly all the answers I am looking for which is why I registered despite knowing it is mainly aimed at America. You lot are such show off's with your metal kegs and facy lardy dah equipment Can't wait to try the beer..... Thanks again.