No oxygen dry hopping

[Mer-man]

Isn’t she running for prez? #aoc

 

[jturman35]

We’re going to find out! Hopefully the c02 scrubbing & the cooling coil will mitigate any loss of aroma. I know Sierra Nevada keeps their bales in a slightly cool room, but open to the environment.

Keep us posted! I have this same conical with cooling coil. Interested to see how this works. I assume you are using a spunding valve instead of a blow off tube?

 

[logdrum]

Keep us posted! I have this same conical with cooling coil. Interested to see how this works. I assume you are using a spunding valve instead of a blow off tube?

Initially I’ll c02 scrub the receiving keg(s). I’ve yet to brew on this system, but in the past I’ve done something like this:

 

[logdrum]

We’re going to find out! Hopefully the c02 scrubbing & the cooling coil will mitigate any loss of aroma. I know Sierra Nevada keeps their bales in a slightly cool room, but open to the environment.

Like this-in a cool room, but no 02 mitigation:

 

[kevink]

I think most of us are brewing better beers than Sierra!

 

[logdrum]

When was the last time you’ve had an oxidized Sierra Nevada?

 

[mongoose33]

When was the last time you’ve had an oxidized Sierra Nevada?

There's a difference between hops being exposed to oxygen, and the finished beer being exposed to oxygen.

 

[Vale71]

Like this-in a cool room, but no 02 mitigation:

You mean besides the bale being pressed so tight that there is no air left in it any more?

 

[logdrum]

There's a difference between hops being exposed to oxygen, and the finished beer being exposed to oxygen.

That’s exactly what I’m saying: the short amount of time the hops will spend exposed before fermentation starts pushing out the o2 shouldn’t be a factor, we’ll see!

 

[logdrum]

You mean besides the bale being pressed so tight that there is no air left in it any more?

Until they’re broken up w that pitch fork & shovel[emoji6]

 

[Terpene]

When was the last time you’ve had an oxidized Sierra Nevada?

In 1991 at a frat house in Chico.

But they had strippers, so I didn't care too much about the beer situation.

 

[kevink]

When was the last time you’ve had an oxidized Sierra Nevada?

What I meant was that Sierra's hoppy beers aren't very good, so why would you want to copy what they do?

 

[Vale71]

Until they’re broken up w that pitch fork & shovel[emoji6]

I'm sure it doesn't take Sierra that long to go through a whole bale of hops if they're literally dishing them out with a shovel...
Now if they had that sitting there for a month I would really start to worry, but if the turnaround is really quick then it's really a non-issue.

 

[Terpene]

[P]ositive CO2 pressure being forced into the tank at the same time keeps all but a negligible amount out.

This.

For those using carboys, it's very easy to apply positive CO2 pressure while adding dry hops through the neck of the carboy. Just set your regulator to a couple psi and let the gas flow from an open tube. Remove the carboy cap/stopper, and immediately insert the the tube into the headspace of the carboy. Now you can take your time adding whatever dry hops you like. Oxygen ingress is essentially zero.

This is what I have been doing recently. But I've tried other methods.

One simple (and dirt cheap) method I've used successfully is to use a rubber stopper and a paperclip. Drill a small pinhole through the stopper and insert a paperclip through the pinhole. Bend the bottom into a hook and bend the top 90 degrees to support the load. Hang your dry hop bag to the hook. Seal the pinhole with keg lube or wax or whatever. On dry hop day, straighten the paperclip and let it drop. Like this:

It's not as high tech as some other solutions, but it's easy and costs essentially nothing.

 

[Terpene]

What I meant was that Sierra's hoppy beers aren't very good, so why would you want to copy what they do?

You may not prefer Sierra's hoppy beers, but there's no denying that the quality of their product is superb.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

We’re going to find out! Hopefully the c02 scrubbing & the cooling coil will mitigate any loss of aroma. I know Sierra Nevada keeps their bales in a slightly cool room, but open to the environment.

I've done a variation of this. I ferment in kegs and typically I dry hop in primary, by pushing CO2 into the gas post while I open the keg to drop in the dry hop charge. I feel like this works reasonably well but I still don't like opening it.

What I've done in one previous batch and in a batch currently fermenting is use a 2nd keg to dry hop, and load it with the dry hop charge at the beginning hooked up with jumpers so it gets purged by fermentation and a blow-off tube coming off the dry hop keg. The batch I did this in previously turned out pretty well I thought.

 

[okiedog]

With the head space is filled with CO2 from fermentation, there should be no (or minimal) chance of oxidizing the hops. With that setup, if the hops can be oxidized, so can the beer. Great idea, logdrum!

 

[okiedog]

With the head space is filled with CO2 from fermentation, there should be no (or minimal) chance of oxidizing the hops. With that setup, if the hops can be oxidized, so can the beer. Great idea, logdrum! Now I'll have to figure out how to do that with my glass carboys.

 

[okiedog]

With the head space is filled with CO2 from fermentation, there should be no (or minimal) chance of oxidizing the hops. With that setup, if the hops can be oxidized, so can the beer. Great idea, logdrum! Now I'll have to figure out how to do that with my glass carboys.

 

[okiedog]

Sorry for multiple posts! Anyway, how do I delete a post?

 

[Vale71]

Apparently you can't.

 

[day_trippr]

Nope. Delete is not allowed. There's a whole thread covering this...

 

[okiedog]

Well, how do ya like that?! What happened was that I was trying to post and nothing was happening. Then all of a sudden I had triple posted! Oh well, c'este la vie.

 

[G Scott Stukey]

...I crack open the butterfly valve just enough to let pressure escape, up through the sight glass, taking the oxygen in the sight glass and which came in with the hops, out through the tubing terminating in the airlock jar. In other words, at this point I'm using the CO2 produced by fermentation to purge the oxygen around the hop pellets, creating an oxygen-free environment in the sight glass.

When I get down to about 5-7 points of gravity remaining, I open the butterfly valve and let the hops drop in. That's what you see in the video. I then remove the gas QD from the pressure manifold, letting the pressure build as the remaining fermentation proceeds...

I appreciate the additional information & context @mongoose33! I wanted to let you know I've been inspired by your approach and am "borrowing" your process to help with my own fermentation. Appreciate all the photos & information you've shared thus-far.

Slight tangent, but one thing that is stumping me just a bit is how to best minimize the O2 when racking to the keg. There's that bit of O2 between where the racking Butterfly Valve is and the connection. Could you share how you go about your racking process?

Thanks again!

 

[mongoose33]

I appreciate the additional information & context @mongoose33! I wanted to let you know I've been inspired by your approach and am "borrowing" your process to help with my own fermentation. Appreciate all the photos & information you've shared thus-far.

If you read the whole thread, and I suspect you did, you can see some of that is inspired by others' comments and ideas. So I'd say it's not "my" process but "our" process.

Slight tangent, but one thing that is stumping me just a bit is how to best minimize the O2 when racking to the keg. There's that bit of O2 between where the racking Butterfly Valve is and the connection. Could you share how you go about your racking process?

Thanks again!

There's no O2 there. It's all been blown out with the O2 that is in with the hops. A fermentation produces copious amounts of CO2--about 1 volume per every 2 points of gravity. So between what is consumed by the yeast and what's being blown out, you have nothing left.

Now, with mine, I'm almost always closing up the fermenter with 5-8 points of gravity remaining to be fermented, so the beer self-carbonates. When it comes time to rack to keg, the fermenter is under pressure, and I add to that using some CO2 from my tank/regulator.

 

[G Scott Stukey]

If you read the whole thread, and I suspect you did, you can see some of that is inspired by others' comments and ideas. So I'd say it's not "my" process but "our" process.

Definitely read this thread. I'm glad I asked a question in June (which seemed to kickstart the slightly dormant conversation).

When it comes time to rack to keg, the fermenter is under pressure, and I add to that using some CO2 from my tank/regulator.

kegging is the part that I was asking about (rather than the DH part). I'm new to stainless and not entirely sure how to best rack with minimal/no O2. I guess if I had a butterfly valve at the racking port open during fermentation, I would have wort/beer fermenting up against the TC fitting (to then rack to the keg)... Then all I'd need is to purge the tube to have No* (*low) O2 Transfer to the purged keg.

Is that how you do it?

 

[mongoose33]

Definitely read this thread. I'm glad I asked a question in June (which seemed to kickstart the slightly dormant conversation).



kegging is the part that I was asking about (rather than the DH part). I'm new to stainless and not entirely sure how to best rack with minimal/no O2. I guess if I had a butterfly valve at the racking port open during fermentation, I would have wort/beer fermenting up against the TC fitting (to then rack to the keg)... Then all I'd need is to purge the tube to have No* (*low) O2 Transfer to the purged keg.

Is that how you do it?

Starting with a fermenter under about 6-7 psi, which is what I end up with after crashing. I close it up while it's still warm and fermenting, when I drop the temp, the pressure drops as well.

I attach a TC to camlock male fitting to the butterfly valve, and then attach this to that fitting:



I used to use a TC to liquid-out post, but it tended to clog more for some reason and didn't allow for the level of flow I wanted.

Then, to purge the line of oxygen, I put a jumper post into the QD and open the butterfly valve:


It opens the QD and allows me to push beer through the line and into a pitcher. That way, I'm flushing the racking arm and tubing of trub, and at the same flushing the line of air, replacing that air with, well, beer.

I shut off the butterfly valve and then immediately remove the jumper. Now I have a purged racking line which is full of beer.

All I need to do now is attach that QD to the keg and open the butterfly valve. I attach a spunding valve and a line to add CO2 to the fermenter, and it's flowing.

 

[G Scott Stukey]

@mongoose33 - you're an amazing example of how awesome & collaborative the homebrewing community is. Thank you for this detailed information! I can't wait to try the 1st beer bubbling away in my Spike Flex+ (a hazy pale ale) using the processes discussed in this thread.

I'll be sure to report back. Happy to share my nest packaged brew with you

 

[SEndorf]

@mongoose33 - you're an amazing example of how awesome & collaborative the homebrewing community is. Thank you for this detailed information! I can't wait to try the 1st beer bubbling away in my Spike Flex+ (a hazy pale ale) using the processes discussed in this thread.

I'll be sure to report back. Happy to share my nest packaged brew with you

I will definitely second that !

 

[logdrum]

As a follow up to the Hop Dropper I posted, while setting it up initially was a bit of a challenge, it worked like a charm! I loaded 6 oz of pellets & released the hops after crashing.

 

[CodeSection]

I don't know if you got a cooling coil with your CF5 but if you did there's enough room on the 4" TC cap to weld on a 1.5 TC ferrule which you can attach your manifold to and frees up the lid 1.5 TC for adding hops or other things.
View attachment 634059
I did this to my CF10 so I could add a scaled down version of a hop canon I put together. Originally the idea was that I could use the co2 pressure that builds up in the fermenter to purge the O2 out of the hops through the purge valve on the hopper then use my CO2 tank attached to the second manifold to push the hops into the fermenter. I've also realized that if I remove the second manifold, cap that fitting off, and install a TC screen gasket above the butterfly valve I may be able to fill the hop canon up then recirculate wort through it using the purge valve which might allow dry hopping with less hop debris (possibly with leaf hops).
View attachment 634064
I realize it all probably overkill especially since I've had the CF10 for 6 months now and still haven't manage to get a batch into it but it was a fun project.

How is this working and have you ever recirculated wort through it? Where did you buy your hopper? I like this...do you happen to have a parts list? Thanks.

 

[Gravitysucks]

How is this working and have you ever recirculated wort through it? Where did you buy your hopper? I like this...do you happen to have a parts list? Thanks.

3" to 1 1/2" offset reducer - Stout
3" tri clamp cap with 2-1/4"NPT ports - Hardware Factory Store
Spike manifold
As far as I remember the rest came from Amazon
3" Viton screened tri clamp gasket (on the top cap to keep hop debris out of the pressure gauge when purging the hops with CO2 from the fermenter)
3" short tri clamp spool
1 1/2 butterfly valve
1/4"NPT 90 degree elbow
1/4" NPT valve
2-3" clamps
3-1 1/2" clamps
1/4" NPT to 3/8" hose barb
2-1 1/2" tri clamp gaskets
1-3" tri clamp gasket
1-1/4" NPT to 1 1/2" tri clamp fitting
I think that's it.
Other than pressure testing the hopper when I first built it to make sure it actually worked I haven't used it. I've had some health issues so I've not been able to brew since I finished putting my system together.

 

[CodeSection]

3" to 1 1/2" offset reducer - Stout
3" tri clamp cap with 2-1/4"NPT ports - Hardware Factory Store
Spike manifold
As far as I remember the rest came from Amazon
3" Viton screened tri clamp gasket (on the top cap to keep hop debris out of the pressure gauge when purging the hops with CO2 from the fermenter)
3" short tri clamp spool
1 1/2 butterfly valve
1/4"NPT 90 degree elbow
1/4" NPT valve
2-3" clamps
3-1 1/2" clamps
1/4" NPT to 3/8" hose barb
2-1 1/2" tri clamp gaskets
1-3" tri clamp gasket
1-1/4" NPT to 1 1/2" tri clamp fitting
I think that's it.
Other than pressure testing the hopper when I first built it to make sure it actually worked I haven't used it. I've had some health issues so I've not been able to brew since I finished putting my system together.

First and foremost, I'm sorry to hear that you have been having health issues. I wish you the best and steady recovery.

Thank you so much for providing the parts list! That list will keep me busy tracking the items down. I like the larger hopper as it appears it will hold more hops than a 2" sight glass. When you tested it, did you notice any "bridging" of the hops that prevented them from falling into the fermenter? With a sight glass, you would observing the "bridging" or movement of the hops into the fermenter.

Again, I appreciate your help and I wish you a speed recovery!

 

[kevink]

So this contraption works great. I pulled 30" Hg in the chamber with the vacuum pump and pressurized it with 20 psi CO2 four times (suck, pressurize, suck, pressurize, suck, pressurize, suck, pressurize) before dumping the hops. I may tweak that part of the process, but I think it's probably about as good as it's going to get. It's probably not even necessary to put that much CO2 pressure on it during the purge when pulling that much vacuum, but it made me feel good and CO2 is cheap!

 

[Bilsch]

So this contraption works great. I pulled 30" Hg in the chamber with the vacuum pump and pressurized it with 20 psi CO2 four times (suck, pressurize, suck, pressurize, suck, pressurize, suck, pressurize) before dumping the hops. I may tweak that part of the process, but I think it's probably about as good as it's going to get. It's probably not even necessary to put that much CO2 pressure on it during the purge when pulling that much vacuum, but it made me feel good and CO2 is cheap!

Quite impressive. This is the kind of 'out of the box, over the top' thinking you normally see over at the low oxygen brewing forum.

 

[NewJersey]

Has anyone made a dry hopper hop the 4" port of the Spike flex+?
I'm not gonna be using it for the cooling coil and would love something more compact height wise

 

[kevink]

Has anyone made a dry hopper hop the 4" port of the Spike flex+?
I'm not gonna be using it for the cooling coil and would love something more compact height wise

It will work awesome with a 4" valve and then build everything else like mine but with no reducer. 4" valves are not as expensive as I thought they would be. There are a few around $100 on ebay.

 

[fun4stuff]

This is all I see!

View attachment 643136



On a more serious note, not a bad idea! I wonder how this affects the hops sitting out if you wait till week 1 or 2 of fermentation?

So how did it work?

 

[logdrum]

So how did it work?

If you mean that hop dropper get up I made, the jury is still out. I've used it a few times, but I'm still conflicted about the hops spending so much time "exposed" to the ferm temps. Just did a IIPA with the more traditional dry hop through the 1 1/2" TC port with c02 trickling up through the bottom. Not kegged yet, so still need that data point.

 

[SEndorf]

@mongoose33 - you're an amazing example of how awesome & collaborative the homebrewing community is. Thank you for this detailed information! I can't wait to try the 1st beer bubbling away in my Spike Flex+ (a hazy pale ale) using the processes discussed in this thread.

I'll be sure to report back. Happy to share my nest packaged brew with you

I think we can officially nounerate this process. @mongoose33
Any configuration of dropping hops from a sight glass is hereby called a Mongoose.
Therefore, I think the primary solutions to no oxygen dry hopping are, you can either "Mongoose" or "Brink"......