No oxygen dry hopping

[Schlenkerla]

Believe me, I kow for a fact that HSA is not a myth. What is a myth is what you make it out to be and also the idea that your totally unproven methods are in the least bit effective at actually improving beer quality.

I think you need to read Wolfgang Kunze.

 

[mongoose33]

Right then: Make That Dry Hopper!

Cheers!

Or this:

 

[Schlenkerla]

Or this:

Did you defeat the purpose?

 

[day_trippr]

Isn't there like more than $36 worth of tri-clamps alone in these "solutions"?

Cheers!

 

[mongoose33]

Isn't there like more than $36 worth of tri-clamps alone in these "solutions"?

Cheers!

Ever do anything just to see if you could?

No?

Didn't think so....

 

[Schlenkerla]

Isn't there like more than $36 worth of tri-clamps alone in these "solutions"?

Cheers!

Prolly

Ever do anything just to see if you could?

No?

Didn't think so....

I'm guilty. When it comes to pizza, beer and sex.

Oh, and smoked meats....

 

[Gravitysucks]

Isn't there like more than $36 worth of tri-clamps alone in these "solutions"?

Cheers!

If you add up all the parts Stout says you need to complete the Dry Hopper it comes to $168.70. Mine was only slightly more than that and if I had used parts I had on hand rather than the second Spike manifold it would have been under $100. Whether the "money spent/improvements to beer" ratio ends up in the plus category remains to be seen but it was a fun project and I think that's half the fun of homebrewing.

 

[kevink]

If you add up all the parts Stout says you need to complete the Dry Hopper it comes to $168.70. Mine was only slightly more than that and if I had used parts I had on hand rather than the second Spike manifold it would have been under $100. Whether the "money spent/improvements to beer" ratio ends up in the plus category remains to be seen but it was a fun project and I think that's half the fun of homebrewing.

Just ignore day trippr. He HAS to be trolling.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Just ignore day trippr. He HAS to be trolling.

Trolling for likes! [emoji16]

 

[couchsending]

I don’t understand these elaborate dry hopping devices when you have a unitank. Bung at the very tail end of fermentation to at least create some head pressure, connect Co2 and pump into headspace while opening the top port and quickly dump you hops in. Purge headspace a few times.

You listen to so many professional brewers of great hoppy beers and almost all have gone back to this method. The old traditional way of pumping Co2 in through say the CIP arm and dumping in through the top port.

 

[Vale71]

I don’t understand these elaborate dry hopping devices when you have a unitank. Bung at the very tail end of fermentation to at least create some head pressure, connect Co2 and pump into headspace while opening the top port and quickly dump you hops in. Purge headspace a few times.

You listen to so many professional brewers of great hoppy beers and almost all have gone back to this method. The old traditional way of pumping Co2 in through say the CIP arm and dumping in through the top port.

Try doing that with a tank full of carbonated beer...

 

[Vale71]

I think you need to read Wolfgang Kunze.

Believe me, I've read a lot more than just that. And in the original version too. We don't need no stinking translation...

 

[couchsending]

Try doing that with a tank full of carbonated beer...

Plenty of breweries do it. Witnessed it more than a few times. You do it right you don’t get a gyser.

 

[Vale71]

Or this:

I'm so happy my SSB tank has a 3" port...

 

[Vale71]

Plenty of breweries do it. Witnessed it more than a few times. You do it right you don’t get a gyser.

That might be, but if you think you're not getting any oxygen in you're just fooling yourself.

 

[couchsending]

That might be, but if you think you're not getting any oxygen in you're just fooling yourself.

The most shelf stable hoppy beers I’ve drank that have also won Alpha King, GABF, WBC for IIPA and IPA are all made this way. That alone is plenty of indication to me that the minuscule amount of oxygen ingress at that level is not doing any harm to the hop quality of the beer.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Believe me, I've read a lot more than just that. And in the original version too. We don't need no stinking translation...

He speaks volumes about controlling oxygen egress. It goes back years. I would not suggest HSA or LOB/LODO is bunk based on what he has published. That said, I prefer when people actually cite, "Measured", DO values with the process to correlate the impact.

 

[Schlenkerla]

The most shelf stable hoppy beers I’ve drank that have also won Alpha King, GABF, WBC for IIPA and IPA are all made this way. That alone is plenty of indication to me that the minuscule amount of oxygen ingress at that level is not doing any harm to the hop quality of the beer.

I think hop preservation is only part of it (on the cold side) To me it's more of the hot side and malt flavors. That alone recognizing malt flavor/hop balance can change ones opinion. You need to recognize the malt difference first.

Make a beer you always make non LODO then try it LODO and then observe change. My first beer with LODO using Noble German hops and pale malt made it clearly evident. Smelled the hops right after the pour. Then tasted the fresh roasted malt. It's kin to fresh roasted coffee vs plain coffee made from a old open can of coffee.

 

[mongoose33]

I'm so happy my SSB tank has a 3" port...

I tried to get spike to add a 2" port on my lid, but they said the engineers indicated it would compromise the integrity of the lid. So mine's a workaround given the limits of the lid.

 

[kevink]

I don’t understand these elaborate dry hopping devices when you have a unitank. Bung at the very tail end of fermentation to at least create some head pressure, connect Co2 and pump into headspace while opening the top port and quickly dump you hops in. Purge headspace a few times.

You listen to so many professional brewers of great hoppy beers and almost all have gone back to this method. The old traditional way of pumping Co2 in through say the CIP arm and dumping in through the top port.

I used to do it like that (create positive pressure in headspace while adding dry hops), but I always felt it can be done better. You will see more homebrewers using dry hop chambers like the ones in this thread as time goes on. I remember about four years ago, basically nobody here was dry hopping the way you just described (creating positive pressure while dumping hops), and now everyone is doing it. The next thing will be dry hop chambers and more careful dry hopping techniques to limit O2 ingress.

I don't really care what commercial breweries are doing and don't blindly think that they are doing things in the best way possible. The best part about homebrewing, in my opinion, is tweaking the process to make better beer than commercial breweries.

 

[CodeSection]

I tried to get spike to add a 2" port on my lid, but they said the engineers indicated it would compromise the integrity of the lid. So mine's a workaround given the limits of the lid.

Interesting..... I was under the impression the lid with the 1.5” and 4” TC port were added and manufactured in China before delivery to Spike. Could it be that they do not have the tools or mold or whatever is required to install anything in the lid? With the lid’s shape and thickness I would think that would require a different process. Perhaps there is a cost factor to change things or to add this to their current process.

Were they more specific as to what they meant how it would affect the integrity of the lid? At least one competitor has multiple TC ports on their lid. So, it is possible.

 

[couchsending]

I don't really care what commercial breweries are doing and don't blindly think that they are doing things in the best way possible. The best part about homebrewing, in my opinion, is tweaking the process to make better beer than commercial breweries.

Really? The guys that brew the same beer over and over and over. The ones that have trained QA/QC panels, fully staffed Labs with the most high tech equipment available, degrees in brewing science, ppb DO meters, etc. etc. etc. You don’t care what they do?

Plenty of people have been pumping Co2 into headspace while adding dry hops for a long long time. Those people would be professionals.

Do I care what my local middle of the road brewery does for their process? No probably not. But the really successful ones that make world class beer over and over and over again, I’d rather listen to them than anyone else.

You want better aroma/flavor from your dry hops get as much yeast out of the beer as possible before adding your hops.

 

[couchsending]

I tried to get spike to add a 2" port on my lid, but they said the engineers indicated it would compromise the integrity of the lid. So mine's a workaround given the limits of the lid.

I asked the same thing and got the same answer.

 

[kevink]

Plenty of people have been pumping Co2 into headspace while adding dry hops for a long long time. Those people would be professionals.

I said that people here (as in on this forum) weren't doing it 4 years ago.

You want better aroma/flavor from your dry hops get as much yeast out of the beer as possible before adding your hops.

I have started doing that, actually. I'm only two batches in, so I need more time to form an opinion about it. This was one of the bigger reasons for creating a dry hop chamber, though. Since the yeast is crashed out, there's no chance that it will take care of the O2 that inevitably gets dragged in by the hops.

 

[couchsending]

I said that people here (as in on this forum) weren't doing it 4 years ago.



I have started doing that, actually. I'm only two batches in, so I need more time to form an opinion about it. This was one of the bigger reasons for creating a dry hop chamber, though. Since the yeast is crashed out, there's no chance that it will take care of the O2 that inevitably gets dragged in by the hops.

There’s still plenty of yeast in suspension, a ton actually.

 

[kevink]

There’s still plenty of yeast in suspension, a ton actually.

Could be, but whether it's enough to take care of the O2 is anyone's guess. And what happens before the yeast take care of the O2? It does not happen immediately, so the O2 just hangs around in the beer, oxidizing it, before the yeast can get to it all.

 

[Vale71]

Okay, so couchsending thinks that dry-hop chambers are a waste of time and has nothing else to add to the thread. Duly noted. Moving on...

BTW a lot of commercial operations (small and large alike) do things the easy way because of cost reasons and manage to sell their beer anyway. Jolly for them but personally I couldn't care less.

 

[couchsending]

Could be, but whether it's enough to take care of the O2 is anyone's guess. And what happens before the yeast take care of the O2? It does not happen immediately, so the O2 just hangs around in the beer, oxidizing it, before the yeast can get to it all.

So are you grinding up all your pellets? What about all the O2 entrapped in the pellets? Oh no what’s that doing to your beer?

 

[Vale71]

Interesting..... I was under the impression the lid with the 1.5” and 4” TC port were added and manufactured in China before delivery to Spike. Could it be that they do not have the tools or mold or whatever is required to install anything in the lid?

They clearly have the tools to drill extra ports in their kettles so that's not the issue. I think with a pressurised fermenter they might be a bit more worried about something coming off and taking out someone's eye (or worse) and the liability that would represent for them than they would be when drilling an extra port in a boil kettle.

 

[couchsending]

Okay, so couchsending thinks that dry-hop chambers are a waste of time and has nothing else to add to the thread. Duly noted. Moving on...

BTW a lot of commercial operations (small and large alike) do things the easy way because of cost reasons and manage to sell their beer anyway. Jolly for them but personally I couldn't care less.

BTW it’s rather obvious which ones those are of you spend enough time listening.