No Nonsense Stout

[igliashon]

What temperature/time did you use to roast the oats? Does a longer time at a lower heat vs. a shorter time at a higher heat make a difference when roasting oats?

I went by color moreso than time; I roasted at about 350 for maybe two hours? But I started with wet oats, so they had to dry and then brown. But basically I roasted them until they were the color of milk chocolate. I don't know if long-and-low makes a difference vs. short-and-high, but since I'm not trying to protect any enzymes, I went for the shorter time. I also only let them waft for a week.

 

[igliashon]

Do you have a finalized recipe for this after post-brew and bottle conditioning or would you stick with it as is?

I dunno; it's REALLY good, so it's hard to say what could be improved on. Maybe do 50/50 rice/sorghum? IDK, I'm brewing another stout tomorrow using no sorghum, so we'll see how that one comes out.

 

[robbyhicks]

I went by color moreso than time; I roasted at about 350 for maybe two hours? But I started with wet oats, so they had to dry and then brown. .... I also only let them waft for a week.

Two questions, i have never toasted/roasted before... How do you prep the oats to roast wet? Second, what do you mean by waft for a week?

 

[igliashon]

Two questions, i have never toasted/roasted before... How do you prep the oats to roast wet? Second, what do you mean by waft for a week?

Ah, it's exactly what it sounds like. Pour the oats in a big mixing bowl--make sure there's room for the oats to swell, or they'll overflow as they absorb water--and pour enough water over them just to cover. You can use warm or cold water, it doesn't really matter, but warm water absorbs faster. Then you let them sit for a while, until the oats absorb as much water as they can. Pour off any remaining excess, then spread the oats on a baking sheet (or two, depending on how much you're toasting).

Once you've toasted the grains, it's good to put them in a paper bag (or a bowl covered with a towel) and let them sit for a few weeks, as this is supposed to allow harsh/sharp flavors to "waft away", leading to mellower and "less burnt" flavor in the final beer. At least, this is what I've been told; I didn't always do it that way and I'm not sure doing it longer than a week really makes a significant difference.

Also, FWIW I might recommend using more grains than I did. 2 lbs per 3 gallons gave me just a little bit of flavor, I'd up it to at least 1 lb per gallon, if not more, if you really want the flavor to come through.

 

[oneillkza]

Heh -- I actually dry toasted my oats. I'll try wet toasting next time. I imagine it gets more Maillard reactions going. They're sitting in a paper bag until I get back from a trip in two weeks and can brew again.

When I toasted them, they smelled quite strongly. I didn't mind the smell too much, but my wife said it was like burned cabbage, and it lingered in the kitchen for a few days. So be warned. (They smelled fine after a week in the bag.)

Also, I think I read somewhere that too much oats (more than about 25% of total grains?) can cause astringency in the beer. And apparently something like 8% is more common.

I'm thinking about toasting different grains for grain+extract brews. I've heard good things about millet and quinoa.

 

[thanantos]

Thanks for the instructions igliashon. I was going to ask the same question.

 

[BrakeleyBrewing]

I dunno; it's REALLY good, so it's hard to say what could be improved on. Maybe do 50/50 rice/sorghum? IDK, I'm brewing another stout tomorrow using no sorghum, so we'll see how that one comes out.

How did the stout without sorghum come out? I have a friend asking me to make a gluten free stout, and I'm currently putting together a recipe. I was planning on going pretty heavy with roasted oats.

 

[igliashon]

It was a Russian Imperial Stout, so I haven't bottled it yet...probably will this week, though! I used 4 lbs of roasted grains (2 lbs buckwheat, 2 lbs purple rice, both roasted quite dark) and some beets, as well as 2 lbs of D90 Candi syrup and some rice solids. I think using the rice syrup is better, but I'm not sure how I feel about this beer yet. I hopped the crap out of it with Willamette and I'm not sure if that was the best choice...bitterness is kind of rough right now.

My suggestion, based on these two experiences, is that rice syrup plus dark candi syrup (maybe half D-90 and half D-180), a hint of molasses, maltodextrin, and some roasted steeping grains (at least 1 lb per gallon of wort) can make a very decent stout, more stylistically-convincing than most lighter gluten-free beers in fact! Make sure to use a British yeast, like S-33 or Windsor. Oats, purple rice, and buckwheat all toast very well. Oven-roasted beets are also not a bad addition at all.

 

[gailenjensen]

I see you posted about the GF stout in April. How did it turn out? My daughter has a gluten allergy and I would still like to make a Guinness type for her.

 

[igliashon]

I see you posted about the GF stout in April. How did it turn out? My daughter has a gluten allergy and I would still like to make a Guinness type for her.

LOL, did you read the thread, mate? I think you may have missed something!

 

[gailenjensen]

LOL, did you read the thread, mate? I think you may have missed something!

I did miss it, everything in between.

 

[igliashon]

Ha ha, no worries mate! I heartily recommend this recipe, only change I would make is doubling the toasted oats, and replacing half the sorghum with rice extract, but it's really splitting hairs. I was beyond satisfied with the original recipe. If you want more of a Guinness-type flavor, I would recommend using a different hop; I like the Columbus because it's more of an American-style flavor but putting in enough Fuggle or Willamette to match the original IBUs should give a more European style. Make sure you roast the oats nice and dark, too. Adding some carob powder or some coffee (if you're into that kinda thing, I'm not) would also not be a bad idea.

 

[ChasidicCalvinist]

Speaking of Guinness...I've looked into cloning Guinness before but not found much luck. Does anyone know what type of hops they use? One thing I have read is the distinct Guinness flavor comes from their use of sour beer. What is that?

 

[mloster]

On the Guinness note, you could add some roasted quinoa, not malted, to give it the sour flavor that usually comes from acidulated malt in other recipes. Roasted quinoa tends to have that acrid, sour flavor.

 

[igliashon]

Well, the sorghum on its own has that kind of sour twang, and in fact Guinness does add some sorghum to the beers they export to Africa (!!!). I think the main reason my stout lacked it was because the candi syrup contributed a fair bit of residual sweetness that Guinness lacks. That metallic twang was definitely there, though. Maybe halving the candi syrup and throwing in some dark roasted chestnuts alongside the toasted oats? Or maybe equal parts toasted oats, toasted quinoa, and roasted chestnuts?

 

[Burgs]

igliashon, thank you for this thread. I am looking to do my first gluten-free beer and had convinced myself that most people were doing IPAs & pale ales for the most part to try and deal with the sorghum twang. Your stout looks and sounds delicious and I think you have convinced me to try that instead!

 

[Burgs]

Is the S-04 essential, in your opinion? I like where you're head's at as far as choosing American hops - and I'm not looking to recreate Guinness by any means. Going with that thought - I thought about subbing in S-05. My main reason, though, is that the one batch I brewed with S-04 was the one batch that went down the drain. Could have been another issue with the recipe but it smelled god awful while fermenting and the finished product (a low gravity mild) was just not something I enjoyed at all.

 

[igliashon]

I think the S-04 is pretty essential. Your past experience with it was absolutely due to another issue, as I've used this yeast plenty of times and have always been pleased. It adds a light fruitiness that complements the hops well. If you're absolutely dead-set against it, I'd say use Windsor or S-33 instead. S-05 is just too flat and clean, IMO, for this recipe.

 

[thanantos]

I've used S-04 for all my batches (a whopping 8 or so) and they have all turned out great.

 

[Jenkins]

Hey there, I'm really interested in copying your recipe. A few months before finding out all my digestive issues were due to a gluten intolerance, my mouth was graced with Young's Double Chocolate Stout. It was also my first and last stout. So after reading through this post, I have to ask: You propose using half sorghum syrup - half rice extract syrup; where does one purchase the rice extract syrup? Can an equal weight of rice syrup solids be used? Thanks a lot for posting your recipes on this site. They're all super interesting!

 

[mloster]

You can rice syrup at your local health food syrup, probably near the sugar, honey, etc. You can also buy it online here: http://www.highgravitybrew.com/productcart/pc/LME-Brown-Rice-Gluten-Free-p3506.htm There's been some problems with shipping from this company, myself included. They said they have resolved them though.

 

[igliashon]

I've gotten fine results with rice solids, as well. My RIS was brewed with mostly rice syrup solids, and it is fantastic.

 

[Jenkins]

Awesome. Thanks a lot for the replies!

 

[BBBF]

I took a shot at a stout yesterday. I based it off igliashon's recipe. It tasted great coming out of the brew kettle.

3.5 Gallon Batch:

Grains:
14 oz of toasted GF oats. I didn't go nearly as dark as igliashon.
2 oz of roasted buckwheat. I went very dark here.
2 lbs D-180 candi syrup
3.3 lbs liquid sorghum extract
4oz of dry sorghum extract
8oz of lactose

Hops:

0.34 oz Nugget (60 min)

Yeast:
Safale S-04

Est. OG: 1.060 / Actual: 1.065
Est. FG: 1.012
Est. IBU: 38

 

[scaesare]

**Newbie Question Alert!!**

I'm just getting in to homebrew (well sorta, did it once a couple of years ago under the direction of somebody who knew what he was doing). One of my reasons for brewing is that my wife now has a gluten allergy and I'd like to brew her something.

So, I'm going to try this recipe, as it sounds like something she would enjoy, and seems relatively straightforward. However, the previous recipe I tried had all the steps spelled out for a beginner like me, such as what to do when the boil started to 'break', when to pitch yeast, etc...

Is there much more that simply steeping the oats in the water as it comes to a boil, adding the ingredients at the specified intervals, and then turning off the heat?

Is there a "standard" guide to how to then chill, add the yeast, how long to let it sit for, secondary fermentation, etc? In other words, is there a place you can point me to and say "Here, RTFM", so I can make sure I understand the other steps not specified in the recipe?

Thanks.

-sc

 

[frothdaddy]

The manual: www.howtobrew.com

Obviously, gluten free is different, but that has a great overview of the general procedure.

 

[scaesare]

Thanks, I'll see if I can get this ordered.

I'm hoping to brew with a friend this Saturday... so I'll do some more searching to see if I can find some online resources that give a good overview as well.

Any other pointers appreciated.

-sc

 

[frothdaddy]

If you click "Enter", the entire book is available online.

 

[Cainepolo12]

Hey Igliashon, how did the Russian Imperial turn out? Did you end up doing a 5050 blend with sorghum and rice? I did that with my porter and love the results.

 

[scaesare]

Firstly, thanks to frothdaddy for the link to the book, and for clueing me in that it was available online.

Secondly, thanks to igliashon for the recipe. I brewed it up last weekend, having toasted the GF oats for better then 2 hours (and eventually getting up to about 450 degrees) until they were a nice dark chocolately brown. The wort had nice aroma and color, and seemed to "start" well. The carboy has been active, and I got a nice foam rolling.

In order to give back to the community a bit 9or for those that are bored, lol), here are some pics and video of the process:

Pictures of the process:
http://www.caesare.com/Media/Images/tabid/131/AlbumID/596-1020/Default.aspx

A time-lapse of brew day:
http://www.caesare.com/Media/Videos.aspx

And finally a timeline of the fermentation:
http://www.caesare.com/beer.aspx


We plan to do a secondary fermentation at the two week point. I just scored a 6.5 gal oak barrel, so I'm debating whether to use it for this GF Oatmeal Stout, or my Smoked Porter...

I'll check back in with results in a bit...

-sc