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No, it's not chill haze.

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Sea

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I just kegged my second beer that had a haze problem from brewing till gone. It never settles out. This particular beer has been in the fermenter for 2 months, and is still hazy. I have never had this problem before, except for the batch before last, and this batch. I haven't changed my process, and my beers are usually exceedingly clear. The flavor is effected, it's slightly yeasty, but otherwise good. This is driving me nuts!

Any ideas?
 

BigEd

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More information is required to give any type of rational answer. Can you let us know recipe, yeast, techniques, temperatures, etc? If I had to guess I'd say it was an infection of wild yeast or bacteria.
 
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Sea

Sea

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Both were AG IPAs.

10-12 Lbs 2-row, couple lbs of spec. grains, lots of hops with many late editions. I mash my IPAs at 154-155 F for 60 min, and batch sparge. Both used Safale S-05 Dry yeast. I clean with TSP, and sanitize with Iodophor, following prescribed methods for both, though nothing has changed in my technique.

Wild yeast/contamination was a thought, though the first batch was quite quafable, and (so far) so is the second batch that has been effected by this problem.
 

BigEd

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Sea said:
Both were AG IPAs.

10-12 Lbs 2-row, couple lbs of spec. grains, lots of hops with many late editions. I mash my IPAs at 154-155 F for 60 min, and batch sparge. Both used Safale S-05 Dry yeast. I clean with TSP, and sanitize with Iodophor, following prescribed methods for both, though nothing has changed in my technique.

Wild yeast/contamination was a thought, though the first batch was quite quafable, and (so far) so is the second batch that has been effected by this problem.
Nothing stands out in your specifics, everything looks OK. I'm going to stay with my original guess of an infection, especially since you said in the first post that the beer tasted "yeasty". If there are any phenolic or Belgian beer flavors then that would almost certainly be the case. Most of the Safale products drop like a rock so if there is suspended yeast in the brew after all this time it is probably a wild one. Since you also used "lots" of hops there could also be some hop particulates and tannins from all of that vegetable matter. If so most of that will continue to settle slowly so you could continue to wait things out and also get the temp down if possible.
 

WBC

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Did you have any white wheat in the recipes? They can leave a haze.
The only other thing I can think of would be that the yeast MFG got some Hefewizen yeast in the package. Not likely though. LOL
 

Bobby_M

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My IPAs are much slower at clearing than the rest and even when they do, it's not brilliant. I think it has a lot to do with large late hop additions and especially when dry hopping.
 

ohiodad

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Bobby_M said:
My IPAs are much slower at clearing than the rest and even when they do, it's not brilliant. I think it has a lot to do with large late hop additions and especially when dry hopping.
I agree with Bobby.. Hard time clearing up those IPAs because of the hops! I think the dry hopping is what does it. I call it a hop haze... Even many of the commercial IPAs have a haze when you pour them.
 

FSR402

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ohiodad said:
I agree with Bobby.. Hard time clearing up those IPAs because of the hops! I think the dry hopping is what does it. I call it a hop haze... Even many of the commercial IPAs have a haze when you pour them.
If you look at the BJCP guide lines for an IPA they state that a slight haze is ok do to the dry hopping.
My guess is that you have a little protein haze mixed with the hop haze and it needs to have time and maybe a little gel to drop it out.
 
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Sea

Sea

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Thanks for the replies. I know what you mean by IPAs tending not to clear as well as other styles, and both these beers did have around 4 oz of pellets added after 20 min. left in the boil. However, I brew a lot of IPAs, and this is something very different, almost as if you were to swirl a homebrew bottle and be sure to pour all the sediment into the glass. I'm beginning to think it's some sort of infection. Can Gelatin clear a hazy infection? It's yet to be seen what happens to this batch, but the last one I drank for several months with little or no change in flavor.
 

tbulger

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IVe had had this problem as well on three beers. I have no fing clue what was up with these particular beers, it definly was a hazy beer that had nothing to do with yeast or hops and was a permanent haze. THe last two i had i left in the seconday for three months around 60 and no reduction in haze. The last two actually taste bad. ONe turned into a gellatin like substance which is something ive never heard of before. IT was the only extract bew i have done in the past year or so and now its almost like lme. ONe thing i thought i had it linked too was using a cooler a mash tun (the extract somehwat disproved that). BUT i still think it had something to do with using the cooler the first time.
This is how i broke down the issue.
THe first one was the first AG batch i did, it was brewed about a year ago. I still have about 20 left and they have still not cleared yet.
This was the first time using my cooler mash tun and the subsequent brews were clear. IN october i switched mash tuns to a new cooler and the subsecuent brews were cloudy. my last brew i switched the cooler and it the beer wasnt cloudy. ? i dont know what the problem is either i havnt heard of this before.
 
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Sea

Sea

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Well, at least I'm not alone! Seriously though, I don't think it has anything to do with the cooler. I have brewed quite a few batches with this particular MLT, and of course, anything picked up there would be neutralized by the boil. I'm thinking it's possibly a wild yeast infection given the following facts:

1. It imparts a yeasty flavor to the beer.
2. It doesn't make the beer taste nasty, or deteriorate the flavor over time, so it's probably not bacterial.
3. Both beers used Safale S-05, so it's possible, though improbable, that that's where it originated.
4. I can't find any other likely explanation, and you know what Holmes said about deduction....
 

FSR402

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You know what?
let's end this now.
Send me the beer and I'll age it and dring it.
then you don;t have to worry about it anymore.


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Sorry but I have been drining a lot of Apfelwein in the last 2 hours. :D
 

bigben

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Maybe your crush is too fine.

I recently started AG Brewing, and my first few beers were all 'hazy' or cloudy....forever...it never went away.

My last batch I went to a different LHBS for my ingredients. Right away I notice the crush was different...not as fine. This beer is the clearest beer I have ever made, it can see through it when it's in the amber bottles and when I pour it in a glass it's crystal clear. I didn't use any fining agents and I did not use any Irish Moss. I didn't dry hop either but I hadn't on my previous AG recipes either. I definitly think it's the crush in my case...we will see on the next beer.
 

Yooper

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Sea said:
Well, at least I'm not alone! Seriously though, I don't think it has anything to do with the cooler. I have brewed quite a few batches with this particular MLT, and of course, anything picked up there would be neutralized by the boil. I'm thinking it's possibly a wild yeast infection given the following facts:

1. It imparts a yeasty flavor to the beer.
2. It doesn't make the beer taste nasty, or deteriorate the flavor over time, so it's probably not bacterial.
3. Both beers used Safale S-05, so it's possible, though improbable, that that's where it originated.
4. I can't find any other likely explanation, and you know what Holmes said about deduction....
But a wild yeast infection would make the beer taste bad- or at least not good. I really don't believe it's wild yeast. Also, the flavor might be ok at first, but then become much worse as time went on. I assume you're still getting the same hot break, cold break, and using the same finings like whirlfloc, etc. S05 has not been particularly flocculant when I've used it- is it possible that it's not just flocculating out the way the other yeasts have for you?

I'd suggest trying a very flocculant yeast as the first step to see if that is it. I am leaning towards hops haze and less flocculant yeast as the cause of your haze.
 

tbulger

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IM glad im not alone too, I think it is possible that it may be the crush. I did notice that the beer was cloudy in the runoff:
Most of my beers run off clear (even though there is still grain particled in them, so i think it something that happens pre boil. As well wehn tranfering to fermenter the beer is not clear, even when siphoning from the top. I think it happens before the beer ferments that why i had it down to my mash as the culprit.
Another suggestion is that it could be mash temps, maybe. These beers will not clear.
The yeast i used were us05 and nottingham on these brews, and i use 05 the majority of the time and do not have any problems with floccuation.
 

macs

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tbulger said:
IM glad im not alone too, I think it is possible that it may be the crush. I did notice that the beer was cloudy in the runoff:
Most of my beers run off clear (even though there is still grain particled in them, so i think it something that happens pre boil. As well wehn tranfering to fermenter the beer is not clear, even when siphoning from the top. I think it happens before the beer ferments that why i had it down to my mash as the culprit.
Another suggestion is that it could be mash temps, maybe. These beers will not clear.
The yeast i used were us05 and nottingham on these brews, and i use 05 the majority of the time and do not have any problems with floccuation.
Maybe it's starch haze left over from incomplete conversion during the mashing phase? What type of base grains did you say you used?
 
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