No-Chill Infection

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NorCalBrewer1

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Just attempted BIAB with no-chill method for the first time...
$80 in grains/yeast/hops gone due to an infection of a 12 gallon batch :smack:


Definitely never gonna try this method again, as it is not worth the risk. Wild yeasts took over the wort fairly quickly (with airlock/lid attached) & the White Labs yeast could not compete. The wort/beer smells like a fruity crab, disgusting. I did have a small 1pint sample ferment out that did not get infection from the batch; and it smelled/tasted EXACTLY what I was aiming for.


Time to invest in 2 big wort chillers..
- Just sharing my bad experience with this method.
 
What's your no-chill set-up? If you transfer the wort at boiling and then roll/invert the container it will sterilize the inside, so any infection has to enter later. You mention an airlock, which is definitely risky since the contraction of the wort during cooling will suck air (and possibly nasties) in.
 
I used star san/water solution in the airlock, cleaned with scotch brite in both fermenters, then soaked in start san for 30 minutes prior to dumping & then transferring the hot wort into the fermenters.

It is very hard to tell if it was an infection caused by lack of sterilization or due to the no-chill method. There was a fair amount of headspace in the fermenters (a few inches) which may have been the reason? I've made beer plenty of times no problems with my sterilization methods, & I usually chill in a ice bath.

The fermenters were placed in a fridge (lager), and yes it sucked in some water from the air locks, which I refilled with more star san soaked water.

I did leave one fermenter out of the fridge that contained 2 gallons of wort just for testing purposes. It cooled down to around 70 degrees in 1 1/2 days. Opened it up (didn't suck any water, barely moved) and it was the first one to smell infected. The rest in the fridge were perfect, until the next day..
 
Oh well, what's done is done.

It's been 2 days, should I give it a week of fermentation to see if the infection dies down, or just toss it?
 
I vote let it ride and see what comes of it. Worst case, you'll be dumping it. But, what do you have to lose by letting it sit for a couple weeks?
 
I'm going to go head and say tubing used to transfer or a nasty washer en route to no chill cube or other hdpe container.
 
you say you cleaned your fermenters with scotchbrite pads? I hope it wasn't a plastic bucket you were using...
 
Unless you are going to do a true "no chll" with the very hot wort sealed HDPE containers, I feel it is best just to let the wort "no chill" right in the sanitary kettle post boil, then transfer within 12-24 hours and pitch a good quantity of healthy yeast. I've never had an issue no chilling right in the kettle.
 
About my 4th no-chill batch I got an infection, bought a chiller because I was convinced that it was due to no-chill, Next batch same infection, even though I chilled in 30 min. Turned out to be my Better Bottle! I am back to no-chill for the winter. (Don't like frozen hoses or skating rinks!).
 
djt17 said:
About my 4th no-chill batch I got an infection, bought a chiller because I was convinced that it was due to no-chill, Next batch same infection, even though I chilled in 30 min. Turned out to be my Better Bottle! I am back to no-chill for the winter. (Don't like frozen hoses or skating rinks!).
Click to expand...

What did you do about the Better Bottle situation? Chuck it? Clean it better? Just curious.
 
Yeah, this sounds like you weren't really following what is popularly referred to as the "no-chill" method on this forum:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/exploring-no-chill-brewing-117111/

Air locks aren't used in that method. If you got air and sanitizer sucked back into your fermenters through the air lock then that's likely where the infection came from. If you want to do a true no-chill you'd be better off investing in one of the winpack or jerrican containers linked to in post #1 in the above thread. They cost about $10/each.

If you're not going to do that then I'd advise as Wilserbrewer does above and just leave it in the boil kettle with the lid on to chill overnight and then transfer to your fermenter the next day.
 
Thanks for all the replies!

I'm letting it ferment out at very cold temps & it's still fermenting just fine, so it may take longer which I'm not concerned about. I'm hoping that the wild yeasts won't be able to eat the sugars as fast as my lager yeast in the cold temps. (~48 degrees F)
(Purely bro-science, nothing more...)

So... let's hope it turns out good. Probably won't, but might as well try!
I think next time I'll take your advice, let the keg cool down for 12 hours with the lid, and then put it in the fridge for the rest of the time. Unfortunately my lid isn't exactly air tight... Would using flour paste around the lid help?
(Some stillin' technique to seal leaks)


My small infected pint sample seemed to have cleared up on the top, and doesn't look infected anymore, but there definitely seems to be two layers of trub at the bottom. It still smells like fruity crab, but not as bad. My small sample has plastic wrap over the top to keep the co2 headspace.

If only it weren't infected... That first pint sample that wasn't tasted exactly how I wanted it! (Like coors, but better)


This beer will be cold micro filtered, so I hope it clears up any weird yeast tastes
 
With as much as hot wort shrinks, as well as the suction caused by the cooling of the headspace, and airlock should get sucked dry while cooling. My no chill containers contract A LOT during cooling. Never an infection with my no chills.
 
NorCalBrewer1 said:
If only it weren't infected... That first pint sample that wasn't tasted exactly how I wanted it! (Like coors, but better)
Click to expand...

That's what I think about infected fruity crab beer -- unlike coors, but better! :)

Sorry for that. And sorry about your batch. Some winter evening when I'm finishing my brew out in the dark, I may try the "leave-it-in-the-pot-overnight method. Seems like a better way to go.
 
Singletrack said:
That's what I think about infected fruity crab beer -- unlike coors, but better! :)

Sorry for that. And sorry about your batch. Some winter evening when I'm finishing my brew out in the dark, I may try the "leave-it-in-the-pot-overnight method. Seems like a better way to go.
Click to expand...

Haha, good one! :cross:
Coors doesn't taste "good" but it is definitely easy to drink a lot of!
I like to *ATTEMPT* to make lighter beers because of drink-ability but I'd prefer a little more hoppy flavors than what's offered for your average domestic light beer.


Yeah, I left the last bit of wort in the keg (1/2gal) and it didn't seem to start an infection for almost an entire week. So I guess the infection really may have been from the airlock star san solution, or the siphon tube. Next time, I'll soak everything for about 30mins prior in star san after cleaning. I usually only soak the hydrometers, temp guages/probes, buckets, bottle brush and keggle. The siphon tube I usually just clean out with hot water +bottle brush, then pour star san through, let swirl around for a few minutes, then rinse with cold water.
 
NorCalBrewer1 said:
Haha, good one! :cross:
Coors doesn't taste "good" but it is definitely easy to drink a lot of!
I like to *ATTEMPT* to make lighter beers because of drink-ability but I'd prefer a little more hoppy flavors than what's offered for your average domestic light beer.


Yeah, I left the last bit of wort in the keg (1/2gal) and it didn't seem to start an infection for almost an entire week. So I guess the infection really may have been from the airlock star san solution, or the siphon tube. Next time, I'll soak everything for about 30mins prior in star san after cleaning. I usually only soak the hydrometers, temp guages/probes, buckets, bottle brush and keggle. The siphon tube I usually just clean out with hot water +bottle brush, then pour star san through, let swirl around for a few minutes, then rinse with cold water.
Click to expand...

Coors is the drink of our generation.....wink wink
 
I actually prefer the idea of a santized container, being filled with boiling wort, then being sealed. If anything was left to survive in the container, it wouldn't survive long in that environment.

Next day, pop it, pitch it, and watch the magic.
 
You may be able to rescue your "infected" wort by cold crashing it as cold as you can or even freezing the wort. Ice crystals inside of yeast will expand, effectively killing the wild yeast. Then thaw it out, rack the wort off the dead yeast and trub and
overpitch a healthy yeast. The new yeast will theoretically overtake any
left over wild yeast and re start your fermentation. If you have a bacteria infection I'm not sure if this will help but you can try it.
Its better to use a mistake as an experiment, you have the $ invested, so why not see what works and what doesn't.
I only do "no chill" in the fall/winter/ spring, when night temps drop below about 50 degrees, (or lower) and just leave the brewpot outside and siphon to the fermenter in the morning.
It works fine for me and a good deal of trub settles out in the process.
 
Last edited:
I remember reading an article that said that rinsing with water after using a sanitizer like Star San is the equivalent of throwing the piece of sanitized equipment in the dirt.
 
phyllobeddo said:
I remember reading an article that said that rinsing with water after using a sanitizer like Star San is the equivalent of throwing the piece of sanitized equipment in the dirt.
Click to expand...


Water is as dirty as dirt?



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