No Chill Experiment

[MMW]

wait. Can I use my six gallon plastic bucket and simply pour my boiling wort directly into that? then use a blow off into a large container w/ sanitized solution until it cools?

then pull the blow off tube or lid off and pitch my dry yeast?

Also, what is a Real Wort Starter and why would want want to use it?

Whirlpool your wort and let cool to 185-190 F, then transfer to the sanitized (better safe than sorry) bucket. I've done it this way for the last three batches. I have a thermometer that came with my turkey fryer that seals into the grommet in my ale pail lid pretty tight.

As the wort cools, it sucks the thermometer into the grommet and keeps everything sealed up. If you're worried about the pressure differential (it's like 2 psi) run by every couple of hours and bump whatever you're using to keep the hole plugged. I tried sanitized foil over an airlock once, that worked too.

This works great if you're pitching the next day.

 

[smellysell]

Asked this in another thread and didn't get a response, so I'll try again here.

Anybody see any concerns with using a corny to no chill ferment in?

 

[gxm]

Anybody see any concerns with using a corny to no chill ferment in?

I'd read on this board and elsewhere about fermenting in a corny.
Some thoughts:

1 - Using a tall thin fermenter. Yeast will have a longer distance to travel to fall out of suspension. Not sure if this really makes a difference.

2 - Where do you put your airlock? If you use a post hole, thats a pretty small hole that could easily clog in a blowoff situation. If you're brewing 5g batches, and you put them in a 5g container, you'll see plenty of blowoff.

That said, give it a shot. Let us know how it turns out.

 

[smiths9312]

I've decided to experiment with a batch using this method.

I did not order a special "jerry". I just poured the hot wort into my Ale Pail and placed a cotton ball in the airlock.

By the next morning, the wort was at room temperature. I placed it in my wine fridge to come to 60 degrees (I was brewing a Kolsch/Wheat). The next afternoon, I pitched my yeast. It's been two weeks and I'm bottling tonight.

I've tasted it several times and I can't tell the difference between this no chill beer and a chilled beer. I would think that by tasting it while it is young, any off flavors would be readily apparent.

The next test will be the finished beer, but it will probably be August before I can take it to the next club meeting to see if anyone else can taste any off flavors.

I've realized that I probably should have chosen a different recipe as this recipe had 50% wheat and any haze will be disguised by the cloudiness of the wheat.

 

[The Pol]

Asked this in another thread and didn't get a response, so I'll try again here.

Anybody see any concerns with using a corny to no chill ferment in?

Just the issue of the vaccuum formed when it cools, plus the complete lack of headspace for fermenting. Both I am sure you can get around.

 

[chefchris]

Just the issue of the vaccuum formed when it cools, plus the complete lack of headspace for fermenting. Both I am sure you can get around.

Maybe you could get the beer out post to stick to allow air to escape (or be sucked in in this case). Just cover it with some tin foil. I'm talking about the little pin in the middle, push it down and to the side so that it doesn't seal the post back up.

Just a thought.

 

[babalu87]

I use these: 5 Gal UN Approved Plastic Carboys - US Plastic Corporation

Just the issue of the vaccuum formed when it cools, plus the complete lack of headspace for fermenting. Both I am sure you can get around.

Where is the headspace in a 5 gallon plastic carboy?

 

[The Pol]

Where is the headspace in a 5 gallon plastic carboy?

Probably isnt any, or very very little. This is why I use 6 gallon HDPE containers. OR you can use Foam Control.

 

[smellysell]

Maybe you could get the beer out post to stick to allow air to escape (or be sucked in in this case). Just cover it with some tin foil. I'm talking about the little pin in the middle, push it down and to the side so that it doesn't seal the post back up.

Just a thought.

I was thinking I'd just take the entire post out.

 

[chefchris]

I was thinking I'd just take the entire post out.

Yup, probably easier.

 

[The Pol]

Here is a typical no chill beer... clarity not an issue. SNPA clone at 34F...

 

[brrman]

mmms - tasty.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

So are we saying that chill haze is a booggieman? Obviously, if chill haze was real and if precipitating cold break mattered it would affect the beer. I just don't understand how the science matches to reality with this method.

Traditional wisdom says that precipitating proteins via hot and cold breaks is important and produces a more stable beer with improved head, clarity, stability, and in general better flavor.

So is the science wrong, are the assumptions wrong, or are certain styles not affected by these things? There is a disconnect somewhere and I don't know where it is.

 

[sirsloop]

i didnt read the whole post... I would have just gotten a large rubbermaid garbage bucket and used that for fermenting.

 

[MMW]

Traditional wisdom says that precipitating proteins via hot and cold breaks is important and produces a more stable beer with improved head, clarity, stability, and in general better flavor.

It wouldn't be the first time TW led us astray in this hobby.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I know, but this TW is from scientific professional brewers. It is explained by chemistry and physical observations.

On the flip side, so is HSA and autolysis... I however still believe in those and take step to avoid them. IMO just because we can't taste something doesn't mean it isn't there. For example, autolysis is always present it is just the degree to which it affects the flavor of our beers.

My thoughts on NC brewing are that it may be a fine way to brew, but until I understand it and why the science is wrong about the benefits of chilling rapidly, I will not likely change my ways. Also, my chilling only takes about 15 minutes and uses about 15-20 gallons of water. I use more than that in cleanup anyway.

 

[The Pol]

I dunno guys, this is a SNPA and I brewed my Haus Ale this way too... the same result. Clear as clear...

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I just don't understand, that's all.

 

[The Pol]

Well, I am no scientist... but I do enjoy practical applications of ideas. I dont know why this process seems to have little to no affect on the calrity... I just know that in practical terms, it doenst seem to.

I can read all day long, but in the end, some other guy wrote this stuff and I dont know if he actually TRIED it. So, I read it, then I try it... I go based on results, not printed words.

Hope this makes some ppl think twice about No Chill and clarity.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I think it would be silly not to at least consider it. I think the greatest benefit would be for people who travel to brew. It would be easier to take a cube home and pitch tomorrow than hassling with fermenters like I do now. That is a situation where it would make sense to me for sure, science be damned in that case.

 

[Austin_]

Just the issue of the vaccuum formed when it cools, plus the complete lack of headspace for fermenting. Both I am sure you can get around.

Could you hit it with some CO2 and and build up some pressure to counter the vaccuum that forms and then transfer it to a carboy at a later date?

 

[The Pol]

Could you hit it with some CO2 and and build up some pressure to counter the vaccuum that forms and then transfer it to a carboy at a later date?

This has been considered... again, there are ways around it I am sure.

 

[gxm]

Not to get too far OT...

I think HSA and autolysis are the bigfoot and chupacabra of homebrewing.
*Maybe* they can happen, but the amount of time spent worrying about them far outweighs the actuality of them happening in homebrew. Kinda like someone who worries about being kidnapped, just doesn't happen enough to think about.
However, we have some luxuries that the Pros don't have. Such as, my beer never sits in a hot truck getting shipped cross country.

Back to the topic at hand, I *really* like the process improvement with no-chill. My brew day is much shorter, which means I can brew more easily on weekdays, and I'm not exhausted at the end of the brew day.
In the winter, when my tap water is 35F, I might chill some batches, but right now it's 58F, and it will peak over the summer at around 65-70F. It uses a ton of water and it's slow.
Use real wort for the starter is also a helpful process improvement for me. It means I don't have to plan as much ahead of time, and I don't have to buy spendy DME. I've been cutting the wort with boiled water to get around 1.035, so it's more yeast friendly. It does mean I need to be around a day or two after brew day.

Is the no-chill brew as good? I don't know that yet for me and my process, which is the reason for the direct comparison experiment.

 

[MMW]

I think it would be silly not to at least consider it. I think the greatest benefit would be for people who travel to brew. It would be easier to take a cube home and pitch tomorrow than hassling with fermenters like I do now. That is a situation where it would make sense to me for sure, science be damned in that case.

I am by no means an expert in brewing, but perhaps more affects chill haze than simply the cold break. Maybe, and I'm speculating here, a good hot break or plenty of time in the fermenter at proper temps has more to do with preventing chill haze than rapid cooling to pitching temps?

I'm not saying the argument that rapid cooling of wort will prevent chill haze is wrong, but it is certainly a possibility that it (or our understanding of it as homebrewers) is incomplete.

 

[MMW]

Back to the topic at hand, I *really* like the process improvement with no-chill. My brew day is much shorter, which means I can brew more easily on weekdays, and I'm not exhausted at the end of the brew day.
In the winter, when my tap water is 35F, I might chill some batches, but right now it's 58F, and it will peak over the summer at around 65-70F. It uses a ton of water and it's slow.
Use real wort for the starter is also a helpful process improvement for me. It means I don't have to plan as much ahead of time, and I don't have to buy spendy DME. I've been cutting the wort with boiled water to get around 1.035, so it's more yeast friendly. It does mean I need to be around a day or two after brew day.

Me too. WAF was also zero for an IC...

Is the no-chill brew as good? I don't know that yet for me and my process, which is the reason for the direct comparison experiment.

Should be what? A week out or so from the first bottles? Or are you kegging?

 

[gxm]

Me too. WAF was also zero for an IC...

Should be what? A week out or so from the first bottles? Or are you kegging?

WAF?

I kegged them Monday, and I'll give them at least 2 weeks in the keg, so 7/20 at the earliest.

 

[MMW]

WAF?

I kegged them Monday, and I'll give them at least 2 weeks in the keg, so 7/20 at the earliest.

Wife Acceptance Factor

Can't wait on the results.

 

[bakins]

Where is the headspace in a 5 gallon plastic carboy?

I don't ferment in my cube, I transfer to a bucket. I may start fermenting in a container like Pol's, but so far, so good.

 

[brewt00l]

Traditional wisdom says that precipitating proteins via hot and cold breaks is important and produces a more stable beer with improved head, clarity, stability, and in general better flavor.

Plus it's commonly cited that precipitating the related proteins out of the beer via the cold break contributes to longer term stability.

Has anyone using this brewing method compared results out over a longer period (10-12 months+)?

 

[The Pol]

Plus it's commonly cited that precipitating the related proteins out of the beer via the cold break contributes to longer term stability.

Has anyone using this brewing method compared results out over a longer period (10-12 months+)?

Well, with beer as clear as seen in the photo, I am not sure that there are more protiens existing in my no chill beers than there are in traditionally chilled beers. I mean, if there were, youd be able to see signs that they actually existed at 34F. Wouldnt you?