All NEIPA recipes taste the same

[RyPA]

For grain bill, I'd go 70% 2-row, 15% white wheat, 10% oats and 5% CaraFoam. Mashed at or near 70°C. Shoot for an FG around 1.018 and around 70% attenuation, so a roughly 1.068 OG.

For hops, from what you've noted there and going for something "not the same" I would probably go with Strata, Mosaic and Vic Secret in 3:2:2 ratio. Token 15 IBU of Centennial or Columbus at the start of the boil, then nothing else until a 5oz minimum whirlpool at 75°C. DH maybe 6-7oz minimum and 10 if you really feel like it.

Ferment with Verdant on the warmer end of the spectrum. You honestly won't get any real benefit from liquid yeast, honestly I think they're 3x the cost and 10x the effort for an overall less consistent outcome.

Thanks for the response.

Why no Golden Promise? I do prefer a slighly sweeter over dry beer, wouldn't GP support that?

While I am going for something 'not the same', I still want it to have some juicy characteristics, and not just some random mix of hops. Ideally orange, peach, grapefruit, a bit on the sweet side, no bitterness, or just enough to make it taste like beer. I also have a # of lactose I can add to the recipe.

Regarding yeast, that is good to hear as I prefer not to get involved with liquid. I'd much rather spend $5 on a pack of dry for each batch.

 

[HM-2]

Thanks for the response.

Why no Golden Promise? I do prefer a slighly sweeter over dry beer, wouldn't GP support that?

While I am going for something 'not the same', I still want it to have some juicy characteristics, and not just some random mix of hops. Ideally orange, peach, grapefruit, a bit on the sweet side, no bitterness, or just enough to make it taste like beer. I also have a # of lactose I can add to the recipe.

Regarding yeast, that is good to hear as I prefer not to get involved with liquid. I'd much rather spend $5 on a pack of dry for each batch.

By all means split the 2-row 50/50 with GP but I suspect the difference will be pretty imperceptible. With the hops and adjuncts you'd have to be a far better taster than I to tell the difference. These days I mostly use pilsner malt as the base in my hazies- mostly because I bought up a very large amount of floor malted Czech Pilsen malt from a local maltsters at a very cheap price. I've used pale ale, pilsner, MO and GP plus mixtures of 2 or 3 of the above without really noticing much difference.

Assuming "typical" crops and decent storage, that hop combo should give you something familiar but perceptibly different. Strata is pretty passion fruit forward which IMO makes it quite interesting as the main hop in a NEIPA. Mosaic brings that overripe mango and pineapple with a bit of weedy funk, and Vic pushes more pineapple and pine/dank.

If you wanted to lean more into.thr citrus then I'd swap the Mosaic with either Amarillo (sweet orange and tangerine) or even centennial (pink grapefruit). I don't use Cent much in my hazies but it regularly appears in my westies and mountain IPAs as an aroma hop and can throw some wonderful citrus peel vibes.

 

[RyPA]

@HM-2 What do you have planned for your Treehouse style IPA?

Here's the recipe, OG and FG are little on the lower side. Debating swapping Vic Secret for El Dorado. Not sure how I feel about Strata being all over the place, but maybe that will provide some balance to the fruity character.
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1531155/amarillo-strata-vic-secret-neipa

 

[HM-2]

@HM-2 What do you have planned for your Treehouse style IPA?

Here's the recipe, OG and FG are little on the lower side. Debating swapping Vic Secret for El Dorado. Not sure how I feel about Strata being all over the place, but maybe that will provide some balance to the fruity character.
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1531155/amarillo-strata-vic-secret-neipa

View attachment 865454

My treehouse style one is Citra LupoMAX, Strata and Luminosa. 8% ABV, modelled on a recipe they gave on their YouTube channel.

82% pilsner, 10% torrefied oats, 5% wheat and 3% CaraHell.

This is what the hopping regime looks like:

Your recipe looks very solid and should produce a solid hazy. The only two tweaks I would personally make would be to:

1) Mash hotter to bring the attenuation down and FG up- as I think I mentioned before I target 1.016-1.018 in 6%, 1.018-1.020 in 7% and 1.020+ in 8%+ hazies as I find you get more expressive fruit- especially tropical and stone- in a sweeter beer. You could also bump FG with lactose or maltodextrin but the former will change the character slightly and the latter isn't quite as good as arriving at the higher FG naturally in terms of flavour (though IME it nails the mouth feel component).

2) I would also be inclined to add either a small FWH or bittering charge for about 10 IBU. You'll still be getting most of your IBUs from the whirlpool but I find this just gives a touch more structure and backbone without losing any of the juiciness.

I know some would probably suggest upping the oats and lowering the wheat quantities to near parity or slightly more oats but for my personal taste I actually prefer a higher proportion of wheat.

Possibly not one for this beer, but I would also highly recommend trying Golden Naked Oats at proportions up to about 10% in a hazy. They do double duty of adding a load of un-fermentable sugars and proteins that give fantastic mouth feel and a "breakfast cereal bar" sweetness without significantly affecting SRM/EBC. They're in 90% of my hazy recipes, though currently I'm trying out flaked torrefied oats with husk as a "middle ground" between GN (basically light crystal oats) and traditional flaked oats (which are gummy as f*ck in the mash). Will report back on Monday

 

[hungupdown]

1) Mash hotter to bring the attenuation down and FG up- as I think I mentioned before I target 1.016-1.018 in 6%, 1.018-1.020 in 7% and 1.020+ in 8%+ hazies.....

The final gravity (FG) for a New England IPA (NEIPA) should be between 1.008 and 1.016, according to the Brewer's Association's guidelines. The starting gravity (OG) should be in the 1.060 to 1.070 range.
Perceived Malt Aroma & Flavor: Low to low-medium malt aroma and flavor may be present.

Not sure what you're present FG is, but I'd be trying the opposite, and mashing cooler, to get more fermentable sugars, rather than loads of dextrins.
The temperature to target, largely depends on your system. But I'd be trying 145 - 150F, rather than exceeding you're present 154F.

After changing my (electric) AIO, I initially, kept getting consistently very full bodied, and very similar tasting, beers.
The new system, targeted correct mash temperature, near top of malt pipe. So acheiving recommended temperature (near top), meant the base temperature was often way to hot, for beta-amylase enzymes to survive.
Since reducing 'set' mash temperature, for majority of my brews, I've been enjoying the results, and the hops, much more.


Another thing, that could be worth trying, if you prefer sweeter tasting IPA, is to include sugar @ 5% - 10%. This can reduce the FG, hopefully to within style guidelines, even where there's plenty of unfermentable sugars / dextrins.

 

[HM-2]

The final gravity (FG) for a New England IPA (NEIPA) should be between 1.008 and 1.016, according to the Brewer's Association's guidelines.

Respectfully, those guidelines are arse (as are the BJCP guidelines). The vast majority of highly regarded modern commercial NEIPAs have FGs well above 1.015, and it's far from uncommon to see FGs at or near 1.030 for big (8+%) beers.

Another thing, that could be worth trying, if you prefer sweeter tasting IPA, is to include sugar @ 5% - 10%.

Eh? That's how you make a dryer beer, not a sweeter one

-Edit 2-

I think you also misread the BA guidelines, confusing the "American IPA" for "Hazy or Juicy IPA". Whilst they're still hilarious at the lower end, the actual FG spectrum they give is 1.008-1.020.

 

[DevilsCups]

Yeah to be honest, I personally don't like to see anything below 1.014 FG for my NE pales, and I prefer around 1.018 for IPA's.

 

[RyPA]

Brewday with my most recent NEIPA went well. I hit my numbers and the beer looks awesome.
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1531155/amarillo-strata-vic-secret-neipa

I took a taste immediately before dry hopping and noticed no off flavors, 5 days later/post dry hop, I am getting what I believe is hop burn. For the dry hop charge I crushed up the hops the best I could to get it into a powder, in hopes this would improve utilization. I added the hops after I soft crashed to 60F and let the hops sit for 2 days at 60, I then dropped the temp to 36 for the cold crash and its been there for 2 days.

Should I let this sit in the fermenter at 36F, or should I transfer and let it rest in the keg at 36F?

 

[HM-2]

Get it off the green matter and into a keg under carbonation pressure ASAP. At these DH rates you will get hop burn, it's unavoidable. A week in keg at 12psi and it'll be carbed and the astringency cleared.

Hazies tend to come into their prime about 10 days from packaging. Many commercial breweries wait 3 or more weeks from canning to sale to the public.

 

[day_trippr]

Zero IBUs?

 

[HM-2]

I think it's just Brewer's Friend being wonky in it's calculations. That 6oz whirlpool is probably about 25-30 IBU.

 

[day_trippr]

Yeah, maybe BF thinks isomerization starts somewhere above 165°F.
I mean it's going to be low, but it's not going to be zero...

Cheers!

 

[RyPA]

The transfer went smooth. It took around 45 minutes and I got like 99.796% of the beer transfered.

Though, the silicone tubing I recently bought has thicker walls than the tube that came with the Torpedo floating dip tube. I think this may be too stiff and at one point overpowered the buoy, making it go under the surface. I came across the FLOTit 2.0 floating dip tube that I am considering buying instead of using the buoy style Torpedo brand version. Does anyone have experience with it?

 

[Dog House Brew]

The transfer went smooth. It took around 45 minutes and I got like 99.796% of the beer transfered.

Though, the silicone tubing I recently bought has thicker walls than the tube that came with the Torpedo floating dip tube. I think this may be too stiff and at one point overpowered the buoy, making it go under the surface. I came across the FLOTit 2.0 floating dip tube that I am considering buying instead of using the buoy style Torpedo brand version. Does anyone have experience with it?

View attachment 866549

Buy The Flotit, never an issue and amazing service. I have 6 of them w no regrets.

 

[RyPA]

Buy The Flotit, never an issue and amazing service. I have 6 of them w no regrets.

Have you also used traditional/buoy floating dip tubes? They have served me well for the most part over the last 3 years. Occasionally they would let out gas instead of beer which would require some vessel shakes to get it back into the beer.

Does the Flotit work for closed transfers?

Trying to justify buying one, I dont need a 4th floating dip tube, but if its better, Ill definitely pick one up

 

[Dog House Brew]

Have you also used traditional/buoy floating dip tubes? They have served me well for the most part over the last 3 years. Occasionally they would let out gas instead of beer which would require some vessel shakes to get it back into the beer.

Does the Flotit work for closed transfers?

Trying to justify buying one, I dont need a 4th floating dip tube, but if its better, Ill definitely pick one up

Yes they work. I’ve never had mine blow off. I started with Flotit and never had an issue. So no experience with the others. My FZ fermenters came with one, changed to the Flotit. Probably should have tried it.

 

[RyPA]

Get it off the green matter and into a keg under carbonation pressure ASAP. At these DH rates you will get hop burn, it's unavoidable. A week in keg at 12psi and it'll be carbed and the astringency cleared.

Hazies tend to come into their prime about 10 days from packaging. Many commercial breweries wait 3 or more weeks from canning to sale to the public.

I am realizing that this may be an indicator of why my NEIPA’s have historically all tasted the same. For 98% of them I did not get hop burn and began drinking them pretty quickly; I fermented in a keg, once FG was reached I would add dry hops to the keg and move the keg to the kegerator and I began drinking once carbonated. So maybe all of this time I have been under hopping and as a result getting minimal hop flavor and the malt/yeast was providing the majority of the flavor, resulting in most of the beers tasting identical. Interested to see how this one tastes in 10 days.

 

[bwible]

Scanned all the posts in this thread. It started with a discussion of yeast then went in 30 different directions as some of these do. Right away I thought of Wyeast 1318 London III and I did not see it mentioned. Isn’t this supposed to be the yeast for NEiPA?

Profile: Originating from a traditional London brewery, this yeast has a wonderful malt and hop profile. It is a true top cropping strain with a fruity, very light and softly balanced palate. This strain will finish slightly sweet. London Ale III has become synonymous with the production of New England IPAs, also known as a juicy IPA or hazy IPA, and balances well with the tropical fruit qualities from late and dry hop additions.

I saw Verdant mentioned a few times. I’ve come aroumd to dry yeasts but don’t know which dry yeasts equal which liquid yeasts, ie if 1318 and Verdant are similar. I realize too that not everybody likes liquid yeast, etc. But I would think if you’re trying to make something this specislized it would be best to follow the science as they say.

Disclaimer: I’m not your guy for NEIPA. I do not brew it or drink it, as the mere sight of it causes my throat to close and initiates a gag reflex. But I always see this yeast description when I’m looking at yeasts, British yeasts specifically.

 

[day_trippr]

You gonna be ok?

fwiw, I always use 1318 for my hazies...

Cheers!

 

[RyPA]

From what I’ve read, Verdant IPA is a derivative/dry version of London Ale III

 

[HM-2]

From what I’ve read, Verdant IPA is a derivative/dry version of London Ale III

It is an LA3 mutation. Verdant are regarded as one of the best hazy brewers in the UK and their yeast is absolutely stellar for this style of beer.

 

[DevilsCups]

I came across the FLOTit 2.0 floating dip tube that I am considering buying instead of using the buoy style Torpedo brand version. Does anyone have experience with it?

The FLOTit is fantastic.

 

[RyPA]

The FLOTit is fantastic.

I ended up buying it because why not, it arrived yesterday. I am going to use it in my All Rounder.

Though, I do think the only benefit over the filtered Torpedo variant is better filtration, which is good when sucking up the last 1” or so of fermented wort right off of the yeast/hop cake.

I dont like the 2 thin metal pins that protrude out as these may scratch the inside of the All Rounder. I am going to try to file the sharp edges down a bit, if that doesnt work Ill try to use the flotit filter with Torpedo buoy.

 

[RyPA]

I am at 10 days in the keg and the beer does not taste good, I think it’s a bit over dry hopped. Though it is one of my nicest looking NEIPA’s.

I read that maybe some biofine or gelatin can help. If this will get me results faster than waiting months, then I’m all for it. Does anyone have experience with either?

 

[YeastFeast]

I am at 10 days in the keg and the beer does not taste good, I think it’s a bit over dry hopped.

Are you referring to hop burn/bite? I don't remember if you said, did you soft crash to 50-55ºF for several days and THEN dry hop?
Once I started doing this I get zero hop burn from day 1.

 

[RyPA]

Are you referring to hop burn/bite? I don't remember if you said, did you soft crash to 50-55ºF for several days and THEN dry hop?
Once I started doing this I get zero hop burn from day 1.

I did soft crash to 50 for a few days prior to dry hopping. The beer has since improved significantly, though I think I used too much dry hops. It has a bit of a hop bite and not as much of a juicy character I was aiming for.

 

[Bobby_M]

Try only leaving the beer on the dry hop for 24-36 hours.

Another thing I noticed is that anything more than 1oz of dry hops per gallon of beer, the aroma didn't improve but the time to allow hop burn to diminish just increased.

 

[RyPA]

Try only leaving the beer on the dry hop for 24-36 hours.

Another thing I noticed is that anything more than 1oz of dry hops per gallon of beer, the aroma didn't improve but the time to allow hop burn to diminish just increased.

What size DH charge do you normally do in a 5-6g batch?

 

[RyPA]

Providing an update on this batch... while it has improved, it still does not taste good and will likely become a dumper. I am going to keep my dry hop charges more modest as that has worked great in the past.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1531155/amarillo-strata-vic-secret-neipa