No Bubble Love Happening?

[nbstl68]

Hi,
I'm still a novice....2nd time doing this.

I just started a new batch of Perry. 5 gal
In my bucket.
Just my own (slow heat pasteurized) pear juice I pressed myself.
mixed in pectic enzyme the night before
Started a smack pack of WYeast Sweet Mead 4184 the night before.
Next morning I aerated first, then mixed in some nutrient (1/2 tsp per gal).
Then poured in the yeast, mixed again closed the lid and put on the air lock.

56 hrs later and just a little foam on top...not a single bubble coming through the airlock.

I guess I was expecting a lot of action before now.

What to do?
Possible issues?

Thx

Nick in MO

 

[Psylocide]

It's definitely fermenting... the seal on your lid is probably letting the gas through, so your airlock isn't bubbling. No big deal. Just keep the lid on, get it sealed as best you can.

The less you open it, the better.

 

[BigMack]

It's definitely fermenting... the seal on your lid is probably letting the gas through, so your airlock isn't bubbling. No big deal. Just keep the lid on, get it sealed as best you can.

The less you open it, the better.

^This. Listen to the gospel.

 

[nbstl68]

thanks. I'll gi=ve it another day.
The lid on the bucket seems to lock on very tight where it is hard to remove, but that may not indicate a good seal I guess. It is only a year old.

What temp should I try to keep it at at this point? I've read 70-75 deg F and my room is currently closer to 65ish in the house.
Would that affect it at all?

 

[Psylocide]

thanks. I'll gi=ve it another day.
The lid on the bucket seems to lock on very tight where it is hard to remove, but that may not indicate a good seal I guess. It is only a year old.

What temp should I try to keep it at at this point? I've read 70-75 deg F and my room is currently closer to 65ish in the house.
Would that affect it at all?

I'm not familiar with that yeast... if the packet says to ferment at that temp, it's probably best. If you have your room @ 65°, the temp of the fermenting liquid (must in this case?), could be up to 8° higher or so. I think you're in the clear.

 

[nbstl68]

I used Wyeast 4184
https://www.wyeastlab.com/he_m_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=44

Directions:
Add to must or wort at 70°-75°F (21-24°C). Maintain temperature until fermentation is evident by CO2 bubble formation, bubbling airlock or foaming on top.

Did all that...also added additional nutrient just prior...so I guess from what I've read here from other people's batches I was expecting all kinds of reaction.

...Day 4 and it still looks the same...a little froth on top, zero air lock movement...bucket (Ale Pale) lid seems quite tight.

At what point should I intervene?...Do what? Add new yeast?

I only have 5 gal so I'd hate to ruin it and have nothing for spring.

My batch last year (different yeast) was slow too but not like this..the bubbler was going pretty good in a few days.

I know most people in this forum do apples...maybe pears are a diffferent beast as far as fermentation reaction?

 

[HB_in_Subic]

I would take a gravity reading with a sanitized hydrometer. The fizzing is active fermentation. Once the gravity readings are the same over several days it is safe to bottle. You can let it sit longer to let the yeast clean things up and start to floc out. I let my cider and beer sit a minimum of 3 weeks before I even consider bottling.

 

[slym2none]

At what point should I intervene?...Do what? Add new yeast?

If your gravity readings are stuck way higher than the projected FG, then pitch new yeast. Have you taken a gravity reading? And have you taken another one three days later to confirm it hasn't moved?

 

[nbstl68]

Current gravity seems stuck at 1.030.
I would assume it should have been active o 1.000 with the yeast and additional nutrient.
So pitch new (the same or different variety?) yeast is the answer?

Any idea what would have stopped e fermentation? Seems like I did everything correctly to cause an active fermentation all the way down to 1.000.

 

[paperairplane]

It's fermenting, so you have live yeast. At this point, they're doing their thing - most cider I have done ferments very mildly compared to beer. Totally ignore the airlock. Leave it alone for about 2 weeks and then see what it's doing. RDWHAHB

 

[nbstl68]

seems stuck at 1.303 the last few days. Nothing happening on top compared to the pic above.

I could toss in more nutrient and re-aerate with my drill wisk to see if it will kick start.
Or should I just go get another yeast pack?

 

[HB_in_Subic]

Try a little nutrient and some DAP if you have some. Along with a gentle stir. Keep the temps in the upper range of your yeast and wait it out.

 

[nbstl68]

Thanks. Will do...but what is DAP?

 

[HB_in_Subic]

You are really still early on in your fermentation (at 10 days). I would not be sweating the FG yet. Like others have said, it can take a couple of weeks for cider to finish fermenting. If your gravity is still stuck after several days, then I would contemplate pitching some more yeast if warming the fermenter up slightly didn't help.

Prior to pitching additional yeast, I would make a starter with the yeast and step feeding it some of the cider. There is already alcohol present so you want to get the new yeast acclimated to the alcohol. Also, add some nutrient in the fermenter and the starter.

Disregard my comment about DAP (DiAmmonium Phosphate), it is generally used in Meads which have been on my mind lately.

 

[nbstl68]

ok, so I'm 11 days in since my last post....My fermentation is clearly stuck...Checking a couple of days apart, three times, it has been at roughly 1.016 for the last week w\ zero bubble action.
(I had previously added addtl nutrient and warmed up the fermentation too as suggested but made it no difference...no new activity).

As I understand it, my goal should be to get this to 1.00 or below for full fermentation, right?

Looking at an ABV calculator, though, it says the diff between my OG (1.060) and my current G (CG?) of 1.015 equates to about 5.91% if I did nothing further prior to racking.

..BUT I planned on back-sweetening with another gal of the pure 1.060 pear juice into my 5 gal.

I don't know how to calc that but I assume this 20% dilution would certainly bring down the ABV way too much if I leave it at the current 1.015.


So at this point does it make since to do as suggested above and re-pitch new yeast to try to get my FG down as close to as possible 1.00?

Should I rack first to get it off the old dead yeast before re-pitching?
I have read here it is not good to keep it on the old yeast too long.

 

[nbstl68]

I pitched new yeast Mon night (same smack pack) and nothing happening?
What am I doing wrong?

...Or is it ok to have my cider stuck at 1.015-ish and move on?

 

[BigMack]

Seems like fermentation may just be done. I'm also not sure with a FG like that it would even be necessary to back sweeten either. How does it taste?

 

[nbstl68]

It smelled very sweet with a little bit of that nice fermentation smell, for lack of a better term. but ittasted awful.
It had an almost metallic (iron?) taste to it as well?
Wat is that coming from?

 

[Jwin]

Probably a combination of hot fermentation and oxidation because you kept taking the damn lid off....
Stick it somewhere cool for another week and let the yeast clean up.
Might help
It may have to age in the bottles for a few months as well...

Did you taste it prior to pitching the yeast?

 

[nbstl68]

Prior to pitching it was just great tasting raw pear juice.
Ill leave it sit a bit longer.

 

[Yooper]

Prior to pitching it was just great tasting raw pear juice.
Ill leave it sit a bit longer.

Move to an appropriately sized carboy, about a week ago.

It needs to be protected from oxidation at this point. Actually, it's a bit late for that. But it needs to be done ASAP, and should have been done a bit ago.

 

[nbstl68]

I have had it in a sealed lid ale pale with a bubbler from the start.
Is that not good enough?
I thought I should only rack it to a carboy when it was mostly done fermenting to get it off the yeast.

 

[Yooper]

I have had it in a sealed lid ale pale with a bubbler from the start.
Is that not good enough?
I thought I should only rack it to a carboy when it was mostly done fermenting to get it off the yeast.

It is mostly done fermenting! It needs to go to a carboy or demijohn, and it's probably past time since the fermentation has slowed to a crawl, if not totally stopped.

The Sg reading from 11/2 isn't correct- that reading doesn't make any sense. It could be 1.003, though. That was three weeks ago, so it's been unprotected for that long. It's past time to get it out of the bucket.

 

[nbstl68]

I moved the cider to a carboy last night as suggested.

I noticed your past comments about "moving it last week" and "probably past time".

What exactly is the concern there? Has having it in the closed bucket too long negatively affected the cider by now? And if so, how and can anything be done about it at this point?

(BTW, My LHBS told me originally I could leave it in the fermenting bucket for several weeks without issue?)

That 1.030 reading was accurate at that time...I took a photo. (Can hydrometers be wrong \ go bad?)
It eventually stalled at 1.016ish (looks like my hydrometer dashes are in 0..2 increments.)

I have since contacted the yeast mfg and they suggested pitching more yeast...So I actually did that and added another gal (6 gal total now) to the bucket, so when I moved it to my 6 gal carboy it would be up to the neck.

It is back to 1.02 now for a couple of days with just teeny bubbles just before pitching it to the carboy last night.

Note, the fermentation, from day one was never very aggressive...just very small bubbles.
It has been in the temp range of approx. 68-74 def F.

 

[Jwin]

I moved the cider to a carboy last night as suggested.

I noticed your past comments about "moving it last week" and "probably past time".

What exactly is the concern there? Has having it in the closed bucket too long negatively affected the cider by now? And if so, how and can anything be done about it at this point?

(BTW, My LHBS told me originally I could leave it in the fermenting bucket for several weeks without issue?)

That 1.030 reading was accurate at that time...I took a photo. (Can hydrometers be wrong \ go bad?)
It eventually stalled at 1.016ish (looks like my hydrometer dashes are in 0..2 increments.)

I have since contacted the yeast mfg and they suggested pitching more yeast...So I actually did that and added another gal (6 gal total now) to the bucket, so when I moved it to my 6 gal carboy it would be up to the neck.

It is back to 1.02 now for a couple of days with just teeny bubbles just before pitching it to the carboy last night.

Note, the fermentation, from day one was never very aggressive...just very small bubbles.
It has been in the temp range of approx. 68-74 def F.

IF you secondary, you want to move it before fermentation stops, but past the peak. Usually a couple days past krausen falling is a good time as the bulk if the yeast cake has formed. This is so the remainder of the fermentation will drive off any o2 pickup.
And yes, you could just leave it in the bucket for several weeks, AND not use a secondary.

 

[Yooper]

I moved the cider to a carboy last night as suggested.

I noticed your past comments about "moving it last week" and "probably past time".

What exactly is the concern there? Has having it in the closed bucket too long negatively affected the cider by now? And if so, how and can anything be done about it at this point?

(BTW, My LHBS told me originally I could leave it in the fermenting bucket for several weeks without issue?)

That 1.030 reading was accurate at that time...I took a photo. (Can hydrometers be wrong \ go bad?)
It eventually stalled at 1.016ish (looks like my hydrometer dashes are in 0..2 increments.)

I have since contacted the yeast mfg and they suggested pitching more yeast...So I actually did that and added another gal (6 gal total now) to the bucket, so when I moved it to my 6 gal carboy it would be up to the neck.

It is back to 1.02 now for a couple of days with just teeny bubbles just before pitching it to the carboy last night.

Note, the fermentation, from day one was never very aggressive...just very small bubbles.
It has been in the temp range of approx. 68-74 def F.

You didn't need more yeast- the fermentation was going fine. I'd take a hydrometer reading, make sure that the sample is degassed first by stirring it to get any bubbles out, and checking the hydrometer in plain water first.

Something is wrong with your hydrometer readings it seems. Adding more fermentables isn't the way to go- now fermentation should restart and you're not any further ahead than you were.

It's been a month(?) in a bucket. It's past time to get it protected in a carboy or demijohn. Cider is easily oxidized, especially if you're not adding campden/sulfites.

Cider and wine typically don't have big bubbles or lots of activity apparent.