Nitrogen Levels / Seaweed

[Ruint]

Cable is used for supporting the coir and the plants, not for the actual plant to grow up on.
Picture is example of a "v" trellis.

 

[CodeSection]

Thanks for the link to Schmidt. I enjoyed watching a few of their videos.

I tried calling them earlier to see about the width of the 75# rope. Their pricing of $18 is very reasonable even if it is more than I currently need. The shipping cost was a killer at $31.

Even though the ultimate cost per foot is about three times as Schmidt, I wonder if this is adequate....https://www.amazon.com/Organic-Garden-Natural-Coconut-Fiber/dp/B07F6Q3NQY

 

[Ruint]

That is a very amiable product. I searched for a poundage rating and did not see it, but for 1st year plants, that should hold up just fine. 60 to 75 pounds is good for 1st year. 75 to 85 pounds is good for 2 and 3 year olds. Depending on varietal, 75 to 100 pounds for 4+ year olds. Now this is just how much poundage can be applied to the coir, continually, before it fails or snaps. Failure means that your hops are now on the ground, and serious damage to the plant happens fast. If you don't catch it within a couple hours, more than likely you are going to happen upon a very wilted pathetic looking heap of vegetal matter. More depressing is the chance that you'll be able to reverse the damage. That coir from amazon is also one length so custom lengths are not going to be any problem.

 

[Ruint]

Also, I forget this, as I haven't had 1st year plants in a while, it is recommended to forgo the nitrogen supplement. Wait for them to get to 3 feet or more tall, then give them a small dose of maybe a 10N rated fertilizer, instead of giving them the 25+N they will be looking for in their later years.

 

[CodeSection]

@Ruint, thanks for the tips! I will order the thicker twine tonight.

 

[CodeSection]

@Ruint, we have been in the mid 80s this past week, so I have been watering the hop plants roughly every 36-48 hours. The Multihead and Willamette look good, but the Amalia and Willow Creek existing larger leaves are turning brown. Also, I see on the Willow Creek some leaves curled as if they are not getting enough water. Am I not water them enough or am I over watering them? Their new budding leaves appear fine....

Amalia below

Willow Creek below

 

[Ruint]

You might already have leaf hoppers. The yellowing at the tips looks like hopper burn. Tiny insects that suck the water and nutrients out of your leaves...They can stunt your plants growth quickly. It could be spider mites also, as I see many little white dots on the leaves. You'll want a decent (cheap is good) gem inspection lens. Mites are very hard to see. Flip your larger leaves over and look for very fine silk strands. If your area is high as having spider mites, those fresh plants while on the ground was like a big salad being offered. There are many local pesticides you may consider for eradicating them from your area, with no harm. Just do a Google search for spider mite control.

 

[Ruint]

Leaf hoppers are easy to spot, as they look like a green triangular bug that can get as tall as a 1/4 inch, and look more like the jump than fly. They usually come around mid May maybe early June though. Spider mites on the other hand are fairly persistent and are opportunistic feeders. They will quickly populate and by May, you'll have an infestation going on. Won't kill the plants normally, but they take a lot of potential away from that plant growing well and producing what you want. They are not easy to see, and with the naked eye, you might only see them as a tiny tiny black spec.

 

[CodeSection]

Thanks for the response. As you can see in the area were they are placed behind the raised beds, there are literally no other plants in the yard....just dirt and decorative gravel. Plus, those are the only two of the four plants affected. I will check under the leaves tonight when I get home from work. I will also put a piece of white paper under the plant/leaf and do a shake test to see if any tiny specs fall off.

Years ago at another house our pyracantha bushes got spider mites and we literally sprayed them off daily with water and I guess drowned them. Wouldn't something like that work if indeed these have spider mites?

Our plants under the patio do not show any signs of any type of insect like mites or leaf hoppers you are describing.

It only has been five days since receiving these plants. I would think if they have insects of some type, the others would too. Plus, my vegetable seedlings that I put out all day in a different area under the patio do not show any signs of insects.

 

[Ruint]

The joys of hop farming!!! LoL! If you believe that you are overwatering, change the interval. Baby plants, like what you have, are a more challenging task. They are more susceptible to everything. I mostly watered mine in the evening hours. It was still light out, but the intensity of the sun was mostly done. The plants would look a little parched, sometimes wilty, but within a 1/2 hour after watering, looked like they recovered. You might try a 2 watering routine. Early morning to give water for plants for the heat of the day, and at night to replenish if it was a hot day. Maybe about a 1/2 quart each, both times. Until they get larger and need more. The curling could be from damage in the transplant. You will have more shoots coming soon.

 

[Ruint]

Some bugs like certain plants more than others...if given their choice, they will always pick the better ones first! Dang little heathen bastards they are!!! LoL!!

 

[CodeSection]

The joys of hop farming!!! LoL! If you believe that you are overwatering, change the interval. Baby plants, like what you have, are a more challenging task. They are more susceptible to everything. I mostly watered mine in the evening hours. It was still light out, but the intensity of the sun was mostly done. The plants would look a little parched, sometimes wilty, but within a 1/2 hour after watering, looked like they recovered. You might try a 2 watering routine. Early morning to give water for plants for the heat of the day, and at night to replenish if it was a hot day. Maybe about a 1/2 quart each, both times. Until they get larger and need more. The curling could be from damage in the transplant. You will have more shoots coming soon.

I'm hoping it is being caused by too much watering. I literally soak them and I'm sure giving them more than a quart of water.....probably at least 1/2 gallon using a trickle from a hose starting with one plant then all four, then repeat 4-5 times.

Never-the-less, when I get home later tonight, I'm going to bring the plants in and look under bright lights for mites or for anything that moves. I enlarged my original pictures and while there was one or two leaves that maybe had something on the lower end of the plant, it wasn't like they are now. Damn!

It just doesn't make any sense why only two plants are affected with them all receiving the same amount of water and are inches from one another....Damn!

 

[CodeSection]

Some bugs like certain plants more than others...if given their choice, they will always pick the better ones first! Dang little heathen bastards they are!!! LoL!!

If there are bugs, they will be dead soon!

 

[CodeSection]

Well, no bugs! Yea!

I'm thinking maybe they experienced more shock when transplanting as compared with the other two. Plus, maybe I shouldn't have waited 48 hours before watering at one time. I'm thinking of spraying the leaves and watering with a very diluted solution of seaweed mix on them to help with the transplant and for the nutrients to go into the root system. What are your thoughts with that? Too early?

I didn't remove all the rice hulls that were around them as I thought the hulls would retain more moisture. Do you think that would have some affect on them?

 

[Ruint]

I didn't remove any of the rice hulls on all 2000+ plus plants that were transplanted. Did encounter shock though, with all the transplants. Spider mites were the next problem. Easily overlooked. Those white specks in the middle of the leaves showing up, and then the edges going yellow to brown are tell take signs. I don't see brown or yellow edges yet on yours.

 

[CodeSection]

I reached out to GLH last night after getting home and they emailed me back this morning. They pointed out with those two plants, there was more growth than the other two. As such, they felt watering every 48 hours one time allowed them to dry out. This they said combined with just being transplanted and going from their greenhouse to full sun is causing some mild sunburn on the older leaves. They felt the old leaves were showing the sudden change but that new growth didn't.

They were not concerned and felt they were acclimating well so far. They suggested increasing how often I water slightly.

What a relief!!!!

 

[Ruint]

The transplant shock can last several days. How long before you get them in their larger bags? When you go to move them, just make a hole large enough to take the whole pots' worth. If you don't do it soon though, you'll have to take care when scooping them out, as some of the roots will be trying to escape thru the drainage holes in the pots.

 

[CodeSection]

The transplant shock can last several days. How long before you get them in their larger bags? When you go to move them, just make a hole large enough to take the whole pots' worth. If you don't do it soon though, you'll have to take care when scooping them out, as some of the roots will be trying to escape thru the drainage holes in the pots.

I was going to let them stay in the current 2.25-2.5 quart size containers for at least two weeks, possibly three weeks, and then transplant them into 15 gallon grow bags. I'm not sure how fast the root system will spread in the current containers and I did not want to transplant them again too soon and have all the soil crumble when putting them into the larger containers since the roots had not enough time to spread.

 

[Ruint]

They may not be in those containers long enough for them to get that far. Mine were in the large dixies, which is definitely not as roomy as your planters. Some of those roots were 4+ inches beyond the drainage holes in the dixies though, and they were in the dixies for around 3 to 4 weeks. Don't be surprised is all! They really do want to grow!!!

 

[TrickyDick]

Following!
I don't use Coir anymore because SS braided wire works great and is permanent. Coir has to be replaced every season or risks breaking where I live. I'll have to post a pic of my setup. Tried pulleys but the SS wire bound them up so plain O rings into my Roof Soffet (Sp?) Can raise and lower whole bine by lowering the wire - no ladders = no falling. I've used the liquid Fish and Kelp before and it smells awful. Used it for my regular garden.

I now order live plants from chileplants.com, I switched from seeds when one year a squirrel go onto my deck and toppled my hardening off seedling tray and I had to get live plants because was too late to start over. They sold the liquid kelp and fish emulsion stuff too, and huge selection of plants that I grow. I will still direct sow a couple seeds here and there. Anyway, over the years I have a new garden system and doesn't need the emulsions. My setup is from a place called Verti-Gro out of Summerfield FL which is close to where I live. They use Coco husk and Perlite for the potting medium and drip nutrient pumped from a tank over the system. Anyway, check it out. https://www.vertigro.com/ I haven't tried using this system for hops though but I'll bet I could use the fertilizer component on my plants? I post pics later on what it is for fertilizer. You mix the concentrate 2 pounds per gallon to make a concentrate which you add to the tank based on the volume of your tank. They have a chart to keep it simple to follow. I'll bet I could add some of the concentrate to the hops as advised in May and June and call it good? I prefer either doing this or a granular fertilizer for ease of application, but admit I have not been the most successful hop gardener so I'm going to read up the rest of the thread after a fast skim.
Good growing this season!
TD

 

[TrickyDick]

I forgot how to post pictures on this site I been so out of homebrewing for a while. Let me see if I can figure it out again.

 

[TrickyDick]

 

[TrickyDick]

Going to line the bottom with landscaper fabric to keep soil in but allow drainage. Probably add some extra perlite to the bottom. I don’t have much leftover perlite from the garden.

 

[TrickyDick]

Was raining today when I took the pictures. Maybe get some new pics with new hop planters.
What did you think about that fertilizer? And the ratio? So the concentrate is two pounds for 1 gallon that is added in 41 oz of each to fill the empty tank (55gal) but that’s for the garden. For hops I could do a similar dilution for one gallon of feed? Too much?? Too little?

 

[Ruint]

Hey TD! That looks to be a fairly decent hydro-lizer(new word! LoL). Skip the 6-12-28 at beginning and end...in the middle is good. Need to up the nitrogen at beginning...this is what I would do:
20(+)-0-0 for early feed...maybe last week in April
Both bags for 2nd feed 6-12-28 + 15-0-0 (which = 21-12-28) three weeks after 1st feed
Then last feed is beginning of June, just don't do it after the soltice...or you will spike the cone growth, not in a good way! When the cones are sprouting leaves 1/3 the way down the cone (often called wings or Angel wings) it is a tell tale sign that there was late nitrogen feed.
I like your set up too! I did entertain running ss cables for the permanent cable, but I know untangling them can sometimes be more effort than I want to spend. With the coir, I can just throw it in the burn pit!
I prefer live plants over rhizomes, and honestly have not tried to grow from seeds....my luck there would be that they all came up as males!!! LoL!
Looking good Tricky...Will be watching to see how you make out.

 

[Nate_503]

I have been reading from various sources about suggested nitrogen levels. Sources from posts here in this forum range from using Miracle Grow 10-10-10 to 12-4-8 to 17-17-17.

Others suggest using granules with a slow release. Sources from universities like MSU give nitrogen recommendations based up pounds per acre which doesn't help me since I will be using 10 gallon grow bags.

For those of you that have hops planted in a small area, pot or grow bag, what are you using?

Currently, I have Miracle Grow in two concentrations (16-8-8 and 30-10-10).

Lastly, in the past I have used a Seaweed fertilizer on plants and vegetables....
https://www.amazon.com/Sea-Soluble-Seaweed-Extract-Fertilizer/dp/B00NIZ6KEO

Has anyone tried something like that?

I seriously suggest urine. Diluted. The best results I've seen are based in piss.

 

[Apimyces]

My 3:1:2 ratio is going fairly well indoors, but I think I'll be boosting that to 4:1:2. Nitrogen is the first element that starts to show deficiency symptoms when I spread fertilization too much.

 

[TrickyDick]

I seriously suggest urine. Diluted. The best results I've seen are based in piss.

But only for Citra!!

 

[TrickyDick]

Hey TD! That looks to be a fairly decent hydro-lizer(new word! LoL). Skip the 6-12-28 at beginning and end...in the middle is good. Need to up the nitrogen at beginning...this is what I would do:
20(+)-0-0 for early feed...maybe last week in April
Both bags for 2nd feed 6-12-28 + 15-0-0 (which = 21-12-28) three weeks after 1st feed
Then last feed is beginning of June, just don't do it after the soltice...or you will spike the cone growth, not in a good way! When the cones are sprouting leaves 1/3 the way down the cone (often called wings or Angel wings) it is a tell tale sign that there was late nitrogen feed.
I like your set up too! I did entertain running ss cables for the permanent cable, but I know untangling them can sometimes be more effort than I want to spend. With the coir, I can just throw it in the burn pit!
I prefer live plants over rhizomes, and honestly have not tried to grow from seeds....my luck there would be that they all came up as males!!! LoL!
Looking good Tricky...Will be watching to see how you make out.

OK so my hope plants JUST delivered today... My potting/soil mix already has some slow release fertilizer in there. Suggestions on fertilizing schedule? Tomorrow is May 1, and I haven't even planted them yet - tomorrow or later tonight. We had a TON of rain so the planters should have moist soil. I could plant them and check on them tomorrow after work.
Was thinking, since solstice is Jun 20, that I could push back your recommendations y 1-2 weeks?

Beautiful plants they sent me. I'll take a pic once I've planted them. Need to wait for some hardware to arrive for my Cable system. Won't matter much until the hops start to take off anyway.

How many bines/vines/runners should I permit to grow per plant?

TD

 

[Ruint]

You don't have to feed them 3 times TD. Fresh youngsters like what you have, should have a lighter plan for food boosts. Second year, and older plants will be better suited for an aggressive feeding regime. I would let them go for 3 weeks before feeding, and then go with your 15-0-0 fertilizer lightly one day and once more 1 week later. Skip the next week, and then the last feeding should be your 6-12-28, which should be before the solstice. Vertical growth greatly slows down after the solstice and hops greatly increase their effort on the flowering stage before the end of the season. The fourth or 5th day after feeding for the 1st time, if your leaves start to yellow, back off on the nitrogen a bit. Youngsters are more susceptible to nitrogen burn, which is not fatal, but can slow your growth. You should notice a more vibrant darker green/blue color in the leaves of your hops when your measured doses are correct. Important to increase the watering when they get between 4 and 5 feet tall. Lastly, I found out the hard way, putting in a "V" trellis for 1st year plants is not really needed. I would go with a single line, and train 4 healthy leads into it. Full the rest. You can let more grow, but know that fertilizer and water needs go up, and it is harder for the plant to grow all bunched on one line, and is more difficult for it to nourish all those bines in the spacing.