Nitrogen Levels / Seaweed

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The joys of hop farming!!! LoL! If you believe that you are overwatering, change the interval. Baby plants, like what you have, are a more challenging task. They are more susceptible to everything. I mostly watered mine in the evening hours. It was still light out, but the intensity of the sun was mostly done. The plants would look a little parched, sometimes wilty, but within a 1/2 hour after watering, looked like they recovered. You might try a 2 watering routine. Early morning to give water for plants for the heat of the day, and at night to replenish if it was a hot day. Maybe about a 1/2 quart each, both times. Until they get larger and need more. The curling could be from damage in the transplant. You will have more shoots coming soon.
I'm hoping it is being caused by too much watering. I literally soak them and I'm sure giving them more than a quart of water.....probably at least 1/2 gallon using a trickle from a hose starting with one plant then all four, then repeat 4-5 times.

Never-the-less, when I get home later tonight, I'm going to bring the plants in and look under bright lights for mites or for anything that moves. I enlarged my original pictures and while there was one or two leaves that maybe had something on the lower end of the plant, it wasn't like they are now. Damn!

It just doesn't make any sense why only two plants are affected with them all receiving the same amount of water and are inches from one another....Damn!
 
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Well, no bugs! Yea!:yes:

I'm thinking maybe they experienced more shock when transplanting as compared with the other two. Plus, maybe I shouldn't have waited 48 hours before watering at one time. I'm thinking of spraying the leaves and watering with a very diluted solution of seaweed mix on them to help with the transplant and for the nutrients to go into the root system. What are your thoughts with that? Too early?

I didn't remove all the rice hulls that were around them as I thought the hulls would retain more moisture. Do you think that would have some affect on them?
 

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I didn't remove any of the rice hulls on all 2000+ plus plants that were transplanted. Did encounter shock though, with all the transplants. Spider mites were the next problem. Easily overlooked. Those white specks in the middle of the leaves showing up, and then the edges going yellow to brown are tell take signs. I don't see brown or yellow edges yet on yours.
 
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I reached out to GLH last night after getting home and they emailed me back this morning. They pointed out with those two plants, there was more growth than the other two. As such, they felt watering every 48 hours one time allowed them to dry out. This they said combined with just being transplanted and going from their greenhouse to full sun is causing some mild sunburn on the older leaves. They felt the old leaves were showing the sudden change but that new growth didn't.

They were not concerned and felt they were acclimating well so far. They suggested increasing how often I water slightly.

What a relief!!!!
 

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The transplant shock can last several days. How long before you get them in their larger bags? When you go to move them, just make a hole large enough to take the whole pots' worth. If you don't do it soon though, you'll have to take care when scooping them out, as some of the roots will be trying to escape thru the drainage holes in the pots.
 
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The transplant shock can last several days. How long before you get them in their larger bags? When you go to move them, just make a hole large enough to take the whole pots' worth. If you don't do it soon though, you'll have to take care when scooping them out, as some of the roots will be trying to escape thru the drainage holes in the pots.
I was going to let them stay in the current 2.25-2.5 quart size containers for at least two weeks, possibly three weeks, and then transplant them into 15 gallon grow bags. I'm not sure how fast the root system will spread in the current containers and I did not want to transplant them again too soon and have all the soil crumble when putting them into the larger containers since the roots had not enough time to spread.
 

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They may not be in those containers long enough for them to get that far. Mine were in the large dixies, which is definitely not as roomy as your planters. Some of those roots were 4+ inches beyond the drainage holes in the dixies though, and they were in the dixies for around 3 to 4 weeks. Don't be surprised is all! They really do want to grow!!!
 

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Following!
I don't use Coir anymore because SS braided wire works great and is permanent. Coir has to be replaced every season or risks breaking where I live. I'll have to post a pic of my setup. Tried pulleys but the SS wire bound them up so plain O rings into my Roof Soffet (Sp?) Can raise and lower whole bine by lowering the wire - no ladders = no falling. I've used the liquid Fish and Kelp before and it smells awful. Used it for my regular garden.

I now order live plants from chileplants.com, I switched from seeds when one year a squirrel go onto my deck and toppled my hardening off seedling tray and I had to get live plants because was too late to start over. They sold the liquid kelp and fish emulsion stuff too, and huge selection of plants that I grow. I will still direct sow a couple seeds here and there. Anyway, over the years I have a new garden system and doesn't need the emulsions. My setup is from a place called Verti-Gro out of Summerfield FL which is close to where I live. They use Coco husk and Perlite for the potting medium and drip nutrient pumped from a tank over the system. Anyway, check it out. https://www.vertigro.com/ I haven't tried using this system for hops though but I'll bet I could use the fertilizer component on my plants? I post pics later on what it is for fertilizer. You mix the concentrate 2 pounds per gallon to make a concentrate which you add to the tank based on the volume of your tank. They have a chart to keep it simple to follow. I'll bet I could add some of the concentrate to the hops as advised in May and June and call it good? I prefer either doing this or a granular fertilizer for ease of application, but admit I have not been the most successful hop gardener so I'm going to read up the rest of the thread after a fast skim.
Good growing this season!
TD
 

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Going to line the bottom with landscaper fabric to keep soil in but allow drainage. Probably add some extra perlite to the bottom. I don’t have much leftover perlite from the garden.
 

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Was raining today when I took the pictures. Maybe get some new pics with new hop planters.
What did you think about that fertilizer? And the ratio? So the concentrate is two pounds for 1 gallon that is added in 41 oz of each to fill the empty tank (55gal) but that’s for the garden. For hops I could do a similar dilution for one gallon of feed? Too much?? Too little?
 

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Hey TD! That looks to be a fairly decent hydro-lizer(new word! LoL). Skip the 6-12-28 at beginning and end...in the middle is good. Need to up the nitrogen at beginning...this is what I would do:
20(+)-0-0 for early feed...maybe last week in April
Both bags for 2nd feed 6-12-28 + 15-0-0 (which = 21-12-28) three weeks after 1st feed
Then last feed is beginning of June, just don't do it after the soltice...or you will spike the cone growth, not in a good way! When the cones are sprouting leaves 1/3 the way down the cone (often called wings or Angel wings) it is a tell tale sign that there was late nitrogen feed.
I like your set up too! I did entertain running ss cables for the permanent cable, but I know untangling them can sometimes be more effort than I want to spend. With the coir, I can just throw it in the burn pit!
I prefer live plants over rhizomes, and honestly have not tried to grow from seeds....my luck there would be that they all came up as males!!! LoL!
Looking good Tricky...Will be watching to see how you make out.
 

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I have been reading from various sources about suggested nitrogen levels. Sources from posts here in this forum range from using Miracle Grow 10-10-10 to 12-4-8 to 17-17-17.

Others suggest using granules with a slow release. Sources from universities like MSU give nitrogen recommendations based up pounds per acre which doesn't help me since I will be using 10 gallon grow bags.

For those of you that have hops planted in a small area, pot or grow bag, what are you using?

Currently, I have Miracle Grow in two concentrations (16-8-8 and 30-10-10).

Lastly, in the past I have used a Seaweed fertilizer on plants and vegetables....
https://www.amazon.com/Sea-Soluble-Seaweed-Extract-Fertilizer/dp/B00NIZ6KEO

Has anyone tried something like that?
I seriously suggest urine. Diluted. The best results I've seen are based in piss.
 

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My 3:1:2 ratio is going fairly well indoors, but I think I'll be boosting that to 4:1:2. Nitrogen is the first element that starts to show deficiency symptoms when I spread fertilization too much.
 

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Hey TD! That looks to be a fairly decent hydro-lizer(new word! LoL). Skip the 6-12-28 at beginning and end...in the middle is good. Need to up the nitrogen at beginning...this is what I would do:
20(+)-0-0 for early feed...maybe last week in April
Both bags for 2nd feed 6-12-28 + 15-0-0 (which = 21-12-28) three weeks after 1st feed
Then last feed is beginning of June, just don't do it after the soltice...or you will spike the cone growth, not in a good way! When the cones are sprouting leaves 1/3 the way down the cone (often called wings or Angel wings) it is a tell tale sign that there was late nitrogen feed.
I like your set up too! I did entertain running ss cables for the permanent cable, but I know untangling them can sometimes be more effort than I want to spend. With the coir, I can just throw it in the burn pit!
I prefer live plants over rhizomes, and honestly have not tried to grow from seeds....my luck there would be that they all came up as males!!! LoL!
Looking good Tricky...Will be watching to see how you make out.
OK so my hope plants JUST delivered today... My potting/soil mix already has some slow release fertilizer in there. Suggestions on fertilizing schedule? Tomorrow is May 1, and I haven't even planted them yet - tomorrow or later tonight. We had a TON of rain so the planters should have moist soil. I could plant them and check on them tomorrow after work.
Was thinking, since solstice is Jun 20, that I could push back your recommendations y 1-2 weeks?

Beautiful plants they sent me. I'll take a pic once I've planted them. Need to wait for some hardware to arrive for my Cable system. Won't matter much until the hops start to take off anyway.

How many bines/vines/runners should I permit to grow per plant?

TD
 

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You don't have to feed them 3 times TD. Fresh youngsters like what you have, should have a lighter plan for food boosts. Second year, and older plants will be better suited for an aggressive feeding regime. I would let them go for 3 weeks before feeding, and then go with your 15-0-0 fertilizer lightly one day and once more 1 week later. Skip the next week, and then the last feeding should be your 6-12-28, which should be before the solstice. Vertical growth greatly slows down after the solstice and hops greatly increase their effort on the flowering stage before the end of the season. The fourth or 5th day after feeding for the 1st time, if your leaves start to yellow, back off on the nitrogen a bit. Youngsters are more susceptible to nitrogen burn, which is not fatal, but can slow your growth. You should notice a more vibrant darker green/blue color in the leaves of your hops when your measured doses are correct. Important to increase the watering when they get between 4 and 5 feet tall. Lastly, I found out the hard way, putting in a "V" trellis for 1st year plants is not really needed. I would go with a single line, and train 4 healthy leads into it. Full the rest. You can let more grow, but know that fertilizer and water needs go up, and it is harder for the plant to grow all bunched on one line, and is more difficult for it to nourish all those bines in the spacing.
 

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You have been flirting with disaster Jim....lol...I use 85 pound coir. Have you ever noticed any cuts from the fishing line on some of the tender growth?
 
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Last Saturday I ended up transplanting the plants into 15 gallon grow bags. Since it got really hot, I put the bags under a ramada for shade until my 40% shade screen is delivered.

The Amalia and Willamette are really growing and taking off. The Multihead is a little slower and the Willow Creek is struggling.

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@Ruint, I hope to install the coir this weekend. I read on another thread where a HBT member posted three years ago that he was reusing his ~24' coir drops for the past six years. Is that possible? If it is, how are the bines separated from the coir?

If the coir can be reused and it is relatively easy to separate the bines from it, then that would change how I tied it off at the top or even lengthen it so I could lower it. I was under the impression the coir could really only be used for one season.....
 

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It is possible to use coir for several seasons. It is a precarious journey though. Take in environmental factors. Was it windy? Was it a wet year! Where on the strand is the weave/union? (I'll show pictures of this later, can't right now as my coir is 88 miles away from me currently!) If you can chop your bine down without cutting the coir, whether it is during or after harvest of the cones, you can separate the coir from the bines, with only a little difficulty. Not a super huge deal when you have a "few" plants. Much cheaper and easier on large scale operations to cut both at the same time and do the mechanical type of harvest where all of it (bine and coir) are brought through the machine which strips the cones from the growth and separates it. True coconut husk coir is biodegradable. This occurs with everything that is natural. Take as much chance as you are comfortable with this. It is not if it finally degrades to a level and breaks at a stress point.....It is when! Coir is relatively cheap, and is readily clung to by the bine. Stainless steel cable is not at the same price point, nor does the bine cling to it. Arguably, some will chime in that their hops climb up it. Yes, it will go up it, that is the hop's nature....to climb. Does it readily stay there? Given the right circumstances, it will slump down as it has no grip on what it is climbing. Can the wind unravel your trained bine? Yes, it can. Can a good rain storm? You betcha! If you don't have to contend with any of those conditions, then you have it made. Where I am geographically located, I am subject to all of that. I use 100% coconut husk coir, to give the plants the best possible chance for staying put, and me the best chance of not trying to retrain bines that have come undone. You can use a multitude of string, rope, chain, or wire. You can even use lengths of lumber, or poles, or sapling trees, to full grown trees to let the hops grow up. It then comes down to this....How easily can I harvest these beautiful cones? How am I going to maintain a clear growing area for next season? What is the price that I am willing to accept to pay, to give me the best chance of success, for the least amount of difficulty? These suggestions are based on my findings YMMV! LoL!!!
 

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First picture is just to show how fantastically coarse coconut coir is, in case you have not seen it. Hop bines really grip this. In the second picture, you can see where the coir is tightly wound, and appears thinner (both towards the top and bottom of the picture) but then it gets a little thicker and looks looser (center of picture). This is where 2 strands were braided together (weave or union) in order to be able to get the overall length required.
 

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First picture is just to show how fantastically coarse coconut coir is, in case you have not seen it. Hop bines really grip this. In the second picture, you can see where the coir is tightly wound, and appears thinner (both towards the top and bottom of the picture) but then it gets a little thicker and looks looser (center of picture). This is where 2 strands were braided together (weave or union) in order to be able to get the overall length required.
Ahhh, I would never have thought of that. I would have tied a knot. Or did that come from the manufacturer that way?
 
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Installed the coir on three of the four grow bags and trained the bines on them. All the hop plants are looking really good (Amalia, Willamette, Multihead and Willow Creek). Since the Willow Creek has slow growth as compared to the others, I will probably install its coir in a week or two.

I needed to use a heavy construction stake to help hold down the coir since the two stakes in each growth bag would not hold down the coir. The soil isn't compact enough and the spikes raise up.

From left to right: Amalia, Willamette and Multihead.

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I don’t currently have any hops... if I ever get moved and do get some, Jack’s All Purpose 20-20-20 is a great fertilizer. I used to work at a greenhouse and that was the only brand we used. They make various kinds. I use it for all my house plants and out doors plants if I’m not too lazy.
 
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Temporarily installed the 40% shade cloth to see how it handles the wind we get. Once I determine how it handles the wind, I will install the plastic gromments and carabiners to the PVC above for a more permanent installation.

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@Ruint, the last blood meal I gave the plants was three weeks ago come Wednesday. The plants seem to be doing really well with two of them about 10' or so in height and the other two about 5' or so in height.

So, do you give any other type of feeding after Summer solstice such as fish or seaweed extract? What about adding a inch or so layer of compost on top of the soil already in the grow bags?
 

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You can give them seaweed extract as it is low in nitrogen. I usually only feed the fish emulsion to them in the early growing stage, but as long as the nitrogen level is low, I don't think any bad side effects will occur. You can use bloom booster safely as well, although depending on what brand you go with, it could be expensive. I hear it works very well on it's cousin and for tomatoes!:rolleyes:;)
I'll see about snapping a couple pics of my hops later today and posting them.
 
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