NHC 2015 - Registration Open

[TobyG]

When peoples say "posted" are they talking about on the beer competition website? I don't recall last year knowing anything about my results until the unofficial results started circulation HBT. Just want to know if I need to keep an eye out on the website. Pennsylvania judging is this weekend.

They're doing it the same as last year. The comps send the results to the AHA and they get verified. Once they're verified, the winners are posted to the NHC Winners page. Since they're not all crammed into two weekends, they're getting verified in a decent turnaround, though. Once all the sites have been processed, scores and certificates will be available on the brewingcompetition.com website. Score sheets should be getting sent out to everyone as each site gets processed. Some people have even received theirs already.

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/competitions/national-homebrew-competition/winners/

 

[jeff62217]

I owe the competition directors big time for taking off the avery labels I forgot to, avoiding disqualification. I finished 3rd in Category 21.

 

[LabRatBrewer]

I only entered one but it looks like it didn't make it...planing for next year I guess.

 

[SavoryChef]

Nothing for me this year

 

[FatsSchindee]

Score sheets should be getting sent out to everyone as each site gets processed. Some people have even received theirs already.

My wife says mine came in the mail (Austin region), but I'm on a trip and don't get home until tomorrow night... And she wouldn't read them to me! Suspense...

 

[thrillhouse]

Sigh. Kolsch scored a 40 in Nashville but didn't advance. Time to move on and brew some more beer. Congrats to everyone who is advancing!

 

[TrickyDick]

Sigh. Kolsch scored a 40 in Nashville but didn't advance. Time to move on and brew some more beer. Congrats to everyone who is advancing!

Condolences. Where did you see your score/sheet??

TD

 

[thrillhouse]

Came in the mail today. I think Nashville had some delays finishing judging a few categories but took the down time to prep the majority of the scoresheets so they went out relatively quickly after posting.

 

[TobyG]

Sigh. Kolsch scored a 40 in Nashville but didn't advance. Time to move on and brew some more beer. Congrats to everyone who is advancing!

Them's the breaks. Did it advance to mini-BOS? That's usually about the most you can hope for. After that, it's somewhat of a crapshoot. Both my Scotch ale variants scored a 43, and only one advanced.

 

[TrickyDick]

Got my score sheets today. Wasn't expecting much for my first ever competition entry.
I had four beers in play.
Best was a 40.5 (8C), went to mini-BOS, but ended there. received some great comments.
Next best was a 32 (23A), had some opposing/conflicting reviews and comments, but I guess I should have kept the description simple and got "dinged" for including a few descriptors in the name - namely, chocolate and oats. It was a sour I made from a half batch of the wort of a KBS clone brew. I think its fantastic, but I guess that the ingredient flavors didn't persist through the souring.
The judges hated my Saison, but I love it. I can't tell much difference between mine and Vielle in a blind tasting.
My Dopplebock suffered from a contamination during bottling. Probably the darn tubing I used with the beer gun... I was afraid that was a possibility since the bottles all had pellicle except for 5, and I had assumed those were clean. 23.5 overall. I knew was a risk to send given risk of infection. Personally I think it tastes a little better with the Brett infection than it did without!
Maybe enter next year for fun. It would've been nice to go on to round two, but not too bad. I think some of my other beers would've scored better but I think they need to make some changes to the categories: add an IPL, and an American Sour category for instance.
TD

 

[eulipion2]

My Belgian quad placed 3rd in Belgian Strongs in Philly today! Scored a 38.
American barleywine got a 30 - they didn't like the caramel and perceived aged qualities. Imperial Stout got a 32. Hoped for more out of those two, but so it goes.

 

[Qhrumphf]

My Belgian quad placed 3rd in Belgian Strongs in Philly today! Scored a 38.
American barleywine got a 30 - they didn't like the caramel and perceived aged qualities. Imperial Stout got a 32. Hoped for more out of those two, but so it goes.

Were you there or know someone, or are they posted somewhere already?

 

[eulipion2]

Were you there or know someone, or are they posted somewhere already?

I was there to judge, and asked if I could see my sheets. Sometimes it pays to be nosy

 

[Qhrumphf]

I was there to judge, and asked if I could see my sheets. Sometimes it pays to be nosy

Damn you...

 

[Qhrumphf]

Also congrats.

 

[eulipion2]

Damn you...

I get that a lot...

Also congrats.

And thanks!

 

[FarmerTed]

Got my score sheets today. Wasn't expecting much for my first ever competition entry.
I had four beers in play.
Best was a 40.5 (8C), went to mini-BOS, but ended there. received some great comments.
Next best was a 32 (23A), had some opposing/conflicting reviews and comments, but I guess I should have kept the description simple and got "dinged" for including a few descriptors in the name - namely, chocolate and oats. It was a sour I made from a half batch of the wort of a KBS clone brew. I think its fantastic, but I guess that the ingredient flavors didn't persist through the souring.
The judges hated my Saison, but I love it. I can't tell much difference between mine and Vielle in a blind tasting.
My Dopplebock suffered from a contamination during bottling. Probably the darn tubing I used with the beer gun... I was afraid that was a possibility since the bottles all had pellicle except for 5, and I had assumed those were clean. 23.5 overall. I knew was a risk to send given risk of infection. Personally I think it tastes a little better with the Brett infection than it did without!
Maybe enter next year for fun. It would've been nice to go on to round two, but not too bad. I think some of my other beers would've scored better but I think they need to make some changes to the categories: add an IPL, and an American Sour category for instance.
TD

A 41's nothing to sneer at (come on, just round up, we all do it). It is very tough to move on to the second round.

 

[tbred]

Any news on the Zanesville results? I have 2 beers I am eager to hear about!

 

[FarmerTed]

Hurry up and wait. It's been so long since I dropped off my entries at the Denver site that I barely remember what I entered.

 

[Yooper]

We judged in Chicago yesterday. I have no idea when the entrants will be notified, though.

I judged 23 and 21A/B. I had quite a few not-very-good beers, with only one score above 32 but I think there were a lot of good beers there in other categories from the chatter I heard.

 

[FatsSchindee]

Them's the breaks. Did it advance to mini-BOS? That's usually about the most you can hope for. After that, it's somewhat of a crapshoot. Both my Scotch ale variants scored a 43, and only one advanced.

Can you guys explain to me how the mini-BOS works? (Again, this is my first comp and the website rules don't really explain that part well - unless I'm missing it.) How many beers get selected for the mini-BOS, and what are the criteria? And in the mini-BOS, are the previous scores looked at, and used to determine the three places, or is it just based on tasting at this time (that's what the second bottle is for, right?)?

I submitted 5 beers, and was lucky enough to get a bronze in Austin for my American Amber Ale. So, before seeing my score sheets, I just assumed it was the highest scoring of those five...

Turns out, two of the others scored higher, and also went to mini-BOS, but didn't place:

Hef: 38.5, mini-BOS
Kölsch: 36.5, mini-BOS
American Amber: 35.5, mini-BOS, Bronze to nationals
Imperial IPA: 34
Roggenbier: 31.5

The Hef was the only one I've brewed before (one of the best beers I made last summer, so purposely rebrewed for the comp), the other we're all first attempts at each style (well, my very first batch was an extract clone of Fat Tire from AHS, so I guess technically this one would be my second American Amber, but first that's my own recipe). And the IIPA was actually a Double White IPA, but I underdid the Orange peel and coriander, compared to the hops, and you couldn't really taste it - so I just entered it in IIPA instead of Specialty, thinking it would do better there.

So, needless to say, I'm pretty happy with my results, and I'm definitely glad I entered the comp! I've heard scores in the thirties are pretty good, so I'm stoked to have scored all five there, for my level of experience. Did get some good feedback and input on each beer, so a big thanks to all who take the time to judge! I hope to eventually train my palate well enough to start judging someday as well... Cheers.

 

[eulipion2]

Can you guys explain to me how the mini-BOS works?

If there are a lot of entries in a given category, the competition coordinator will break down the table into smaller groups. Say there are 24 entries in a flight, the coordinator could break the table down into 3 groups of 2 judges each. Each set of judges will pull a beer from all the entries and judge it, then pull the next. One group may be faster, one may be slower, so the groups might not judge the same number of entries.

Once all the entries have been judged, each group will choose their best beers to push on to mini-BOS, usually 2-3 per group, and usually one judge from each group (or the judges with the highest rank, or whomever is least drunk...) will judge the beers that have been pushed forward to the mini-BOS. They won't look at the scoresheets, and they won't write new ones. They'll pour all the beers and judge them side-by-side by the guidelines. Usually it'll start with each judge saying which beer is the least accurate to style and if the other judges agree that beer gets kicked.

Once it's down to about four beers remaining the judges start to haggle over 1st-2nd-3rd place until consensus is reached.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Can you guys explain to me how the mini-BOS works? (Again, this is my first comp and the website rules don't really explain that part well - unless I'm missing it.) How many beers get selected for the mini-BOS, and what are the criteria? And in the mini-BOS, are the previous scores looked at, and used to determine the three places, or is it just based on tasting at this time (that's what the second bottle is for, right?)?

I submitted 5 beers, and was lucky enough to get a bronze in Austin for my American Amber Ale. So, before seeing my score sheets, I just assumed it was the highest scoring of those five...

Turns out, two of the others scored higher, and also went to mini-BOS, but didn't place:

Hef: 38.5, mini-BOS
Kölsch: 36.5, mini-BOS
American Amber: 35.5, mini-BOS, Bronze to nationals
Imperial IPA: 34
Roggenbier: 31.5

The Hef was the only one I've brewed before (one of the best beers I made last summer, so purposely rebrewed for the comp), the other we're all first attempts at each style (well, my very first batch was an extract clone of Fat Tire from AHS, so I guess technically this one would be my second American Amber, but first that's my own recipe). And the IIPA was actually a Double White IPA, but I underdid the Orange peel and coriander, compared to the hops, and you couldn't really taste it - so I just entered it in IIPA instead of Specialty, thinking it would do better there.

So, needless to say, I'm pretty happy with my results, and I'm definitely glad I entered the comp! I've heard scores in the thirties are pretty good, so I'm stoked to have scored all five there, for my level of experience. Did get some good feedback and input on each beer, so a big thanks to all who take the time to judge! I hope to eventually train my palate well enough to start judging someday as well... Cheers.

Having never judged NHC before, I don't know what the procedure there is, but here's what happens usually:

1. Whole category is split between multiple sets of judges, so that no judge is tasting inordinate amount of beer.

2. Each judging group (2-3 judges) sends forward the top from their subset of the category. Most comps I judge we do 2 beers, sometimes it's one, sometimes it's 3, sometimes two judge pairs will sent three but a third pair will only send one since they didn't have any others that were even worthy.

3. Then each pair has one (usually the highest ranking) judge sit in on the mini-BOS. If you're lucky enough to have a 3 bottle comp, 2nd bottle is for mini-BOS (NHC is different, I'm assuming, since they don't do overall BOS, that the 2nd bottle is for mini-BOS, and that's why 3 bottles are needed for finals). Most comps I judge, we're going on the dregs of the 1st bottle, and the 2nd bottle is reserved for BOS, or in extreme cases, if we think the first bottle is infected and want to give the entrant a second chance with the other bottle. Previous scores are disregarded, and the judges simply taste all the mini-BOS contenders side by side, and come to a consesus on the best three. No rescoring, no new scoresheets.

I don't want to say "it's a beauty contest" but that's really the best way of thinking about it. It's really where the "intangibles" come to play. And it's more subjective than I'd like it to be, but it is what it is. I know I'll suggest placement based on style, even if I like a beer better. Last comp I judged, during one mini-BOS we had 6 beers, three with very minor flaws that we knocked out, and then the best tasting beer we gave 3rd, because while a great beer, the other two were almost as good, but better in their respective styles. Some judges may not always do it that way.

It's why you can have high scoring beers in initial judging not pass through mini-BOS, and you can have a beer scored in the mid 30's beat a beer scored in the low 40s. Not often that that happens, but it happens. Sometimes (at least in 2-bottle comps) the beer can change pretty dramatically once opened, and I've had EXCELLENT beers when we first popped them be much more lackluster when it gets to mini-BOS. Seen it with sours and highly hopped beers. And sometimes, it's just that some judges score more harshly than others, so what one set scored a 35 the next might score a 40 (and beat the one the latter scored a 39).

 

[Qhrumphf]

Meanwhile, I'm compulsively (and futilely) refreshing the NHC webpage for an update on Philly.

Anyone judging Philly know the status? Everything all wrapped up? And anyone else notice any patterns on the completition vs posting time? Seems to be pretty quick this time around...

Patience is not my strong suit. :rockin::rockin::rockin:

 

[FatsSchindee]

Thanks for the explanation, eulipion2 and Qhrumphf - that makes sense.

It's why you can have high scoring beers in initial judging not pass through mini-BOS, and you can have a beer scored in the mid 30's beat a beer scored in the low 40s. Not often that that happens, but it happens.

I'm assuming the latter is probably what happened with my Amber... Especially as Cat 10 was the most-entered category in Austin (51 entries, with IPAs and Stouts close behind, of course). I knew there'd be tough competition in that category, but hey - I'll take it!

 

[stevo155]

Meanwhile, I'm compulsively (and futilely) refreshing the NHC webpage for an update on Philly.

Anyone judging Philly know the status? Everything all wrapped up? And anyone else notice any patterns on the completition vs posting time? Seems to be pretty quick this time around...

Patience is not my strong suit. :rockin::rockin::rockin:

I didn't judge but the other regions were getting posted online about 7-10 days after the competition. Now this was when there were only a couple each weekend, but this past weekend there were as many regions judging as there were the previous 3 weekends combined. Also assumes that the region has all their stuff in order and sent to the AHA but in the past, Philly has been outstanding in this regard.

I wouldn't expect anything before next weekend at least.

Good luck!

 

[eulipion2]

Meanwhile, I'm compulsively (and futilely) refreshing the NHC webpage for an update on Philly.

Anyone judging Philly know the status? Everything all wrapped up? And anyone else notice any patterns on the completition vs posting time? Seems to be pretty quick this time around...

Patience is not my strong suit. :rockin::rockin::rockin:

Like I said earlier, I was able to get my sheets the same day, so I'd assume they're on the ball. Not sure if they'll send sheets before or after results are confirmed by the AHA, but it shouldn't be too long.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Also assumes that the region has all their stuff in order and sent to the AHA but in the past, Philly has been outstanding in this regard.

This was my principle concern. I've usually entered in Zanesville in the past, first time going with Philly. But that was my impression too.

 

[TobyG]

Then each pair has one (usually the highest ranking) judge sit in on the mini-BOS. If you're lucky enough to have a 3 bottle comp, 2nd bottle is for mini-BOS (NHC is different, I'm assuming, since they don't do overall BOS, that the 2nd bottle is for mini-BOS, and that's why 3 bottles are needed for finals).

Yeah, I think the 3rd bottle for NHC is 'just in case'. Most 3 bottle comps have the 3rd bottle for BOS.

I don't want to say "it's a beauty contest" but that's really the best way of thinking about it. It's really where the "intangibles" come to play. And it's more subjective than I'd like it to be, but it is what it is. I know I'll suggest placement based on style, even if I like a beer better. Last comp I judged, during one mini-BOS we had 6 beers, three with very minor flaws that we knocked out, and then the best tasting beer we gave 3rd, because while a great beer, the other two were almost as good, but better in their respective styles. Some judges may not always do it that way.

It varies on the mini-BOS panel, but yeah, I have been in that position before too where I'm arguing against a beer I actually like better because it's not as representative of the style.

It's why you can have high scoring beers in initial judging not pass through mini-BOS, and you can have a beer scored in the mid 30's beat a beer scored in the low 40s. Not often that that happens, but it happens.

It probably happens more often that you'd expect.

I'm assuming the latter is probably what happened with my Amber... Especially as Cat 10 was the most-entered category in Austin (51 entries, with IPAs and Stouts close behind, of course). I knew there'd be tough competition in that category, but hey - I'll take it!

Categories 10, 13, and 14 are always tough since they almost always get the most entries. 6 and 16 are also pretty contentious. Learn to brew really good lagers if you want to help your chances of medaling.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Yeah, I think the 3rd bottle for NHC is 'just in case'. Most 3 bottle comps have the 3rd bottle for BOS.

Not that you don't know this already (more for everyone else) but most 2 bottle comps are 1 for both judging and mini-BOS, one for emergency judging OR BOS. 3 bottle comps its one each for judging, mini-BOS, and BOS.

NHC is 2 bottles for first round (but i don't think they do BOS in the first round, right?) and 3 for finals, which does BOS, so I'd assume it's like any other 3 bottle comp for finals. Firsr round I'd assume (having never judged it, only entered) that it's strictly judging beer plus a second mini-BOS beer. Of course someone who's judged it could clarify.

 

[TobyG]

Not that you don't know this already (more for everyone else) but most 2 bottle comps are 1 for both judging and mini-BOS, one for emergency judging OR BOS. 3 bottle comps its one each for judging, mini-BOS, and BOS.

Yep, that's why I don't understand a 2 bottle comp with a mini-BOS and BOS. It's really unfair to the entrants (although I was surprised to find out a while back how many people complain about 3 bottle comps).

NHC is 2 bottles for first round (but i don't think they do BOS in the first round, right?) and 3 for finals, which does BOS, so I'd assume it's like any other 3 bottle comp for finals. Firsr round I'd assume (having never judged it, only entered) that it's strictly judging beer plus a second mini-BOS beer. Of course someone who's judged it could clarify.

2 bottles for first round are judging and mini-BOS. They don't do a BOS. Ninkasi award goes to the person with the most points at NHC Finals. I forgot that the Homebrewer of the Year is the BOS, so that's the 3rd bottle there.

 

[Hello]

I got my score sheets back. My holiday spice ale did better than expected at 31.5. One judge said the vanilla was not apparent, but there were 3 beans used. I really like the feedback given so I can improve if I decide to brew it again.

Then there is an IPA which has really been a winner among people who have tried it, including other brewers. It scored a 37, which I'm happy with, but one judge said there was great bitterness from the hops in the aroma but none in the flavor. The flavor itself actually came from the hops, so I was left a little perplexed. The only alarming statement is one judge said it had a sour astringent taste and it was too astringent leaving with me a low on technical merit. But if you pan back up to the top, it was a nice balance between malt and hops.

He also said it was like chewing raw grain. I need to research how that comes to be in a beer. Maybe I'm not getting the conversion I think I'm getting.

Taking that, I'm fine with the wishy washy feedback, but I am concerned about the sour astringency claim. If it is truly sour then an infection set it. I can't seem to detect it today with a sample drank at serving temp and room temp.

Either way, I apprecaite that at least 3 of the judges actually added comments.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Yep, that's why I don't understand a 2 bottle comp with a mini-BOS and BOS. It's really unfair to the entrants (although I was surprised to find out a while back how many people complain about 3 bottle comps).

Completely and totally agree. I have no problem with 3 bottle comps. I don't enter ones where half a case is needed though. And most entrants likely don't know what goes into judging, and probably don't know why they're asked to cough up 3 bottles. If they knew it was for their benefit i think less would complain.

2 bottles for first round are judging and mini-BOS. They don't do a BOS. Ninkasi award goes to the person with the most points at NHC Finals. I forgot that the Homebrewer of the Year is the BOS, so that's the 3rd bottle there.

Ok, that's exactly what i thought.

 

[TobyG]

Then there is an IPA which has really been a winner among people who have tried it, including other brewers. It scored a 37, which I'm happy with, but one judge said there was great bitterness from the hops in the aroma but none in the flavor. The flavor itself actually came from the hops, so I was left a little perplexed.

I can understand, because bitterness isn't an aroma.

The only alarming statement is one judge said it had a sour astringent taste and it was too astringent leaving with me a low on technical merit. But if you pan back up to the top, it was a nice balance between malt and hops.

Also confusing because astringency is more a mouthfeel than a taste.

He also said it was like chewing raw grain. I need to research how that comes to be in a beer. Maybe I'm not getting the conversion I think I'm getting.

Astringency and graininess could be over-crushing, over-sparging, or too high of a pH in the mash or sparge.

Taking that, I'm fine with the wishy washy feedback, but I am concerned about the sour astringency claim. If it is truly sour then an infection set it. I can't seem to detect it today with a sample drank at serving temp and room temp.

Yeah, I think some people conflate sour and astringent. Sour is more too low a pH (i.e. acetic and/or lactic acid levels are high). Astringent is a more like sucking on a teabag. They can occur at the same time, but are two different sensations. Maybe they're just hyper sensitive to bitterness.

 

[bob1852]

(although I was surprised to find out a while back how many people complain about comps no matter how they're run).

Troo!

 

[Qhrumphf]

Could also be hop tannins. Part of why iso-extract is becoming more popular. But the "chewing on raw grain" comment points to mash/sparge pH issues. It could even be a combination of both

 

[stevo155]

4 of the 6 regions from the past weekend now in verifying status...now the refresh wait begins!!

 

[FarmerTed]

4 of the 6 regions from the past weekend now in verifying status...now the refresh wait begins!!

You think that means they'll post the winners today? I'd rather get the let-down over with.

 

[Pilgarlic]

Flanders Red went through with 44.5, Bronze, Nashville.

 

[stevo155]

You think that means they'll post the winners today? I'd rather get the let-down over with.

I somehow doubt they will have results today, but you never know. I believe Janis is still the only person who verifies the results at the AHA.

They are doing a great job and I like how they are doing it this year by releasing the results as soon as they are ready. There doesn't seem to be the same level of complaining as in past years either.