Newbie: Right gear, but no idea.

[Dmacnnz]

Hi,


I have read all I can from faq, books, forums and YouTube.


Just after some confirmation and/or further advise more specific to my actual setup.


I haven’t brewed for 10 years and that was mostly failed attempts.


This time I am going all out. I have a new 65L kettle( with built in pump etc) and a 65L conical unitank (with built in glycol system).

(I’m currently living in China so these can be obtained domestically very cheap!) pics attached.




I plan to make IPA initially and most likely some wheat beer in the future.


From my research I have the following idea/sequence in mind.

1. Clean and sterilize everything!
2. Make the malt
3. Boil
4. Add hops
5. Cool wort
6. Transfer via cooling pipe to fermenter (fermenter pre cooled to yeast required temp)
7. Airate with bubble stone with O2
8. Pitch yeast when wort at correct temp
9. Seal with pressure valve set to around 12psi (unsure?!)
10. Drop yeast from Cornical.
11. Add dry hops. (What’s the best way in a pressure fermenter?)
12. Force carbonate with bubble stone( is this needed if pressure fermented)
13. Cold crush in fermenter. ( apparently it can cool to around 3 degrees C.)
14. Pressure transfer to kegs.

As I am hoping to pressure ferment to reduce oxygen contamination I have a few questions.

Steps 7-9 are the bits I am struggling to find info on.

What is the best way to add dry hops to a pressure vessel?


I would ideally like to “finish” the beer in the unibody and then transfer finished carbonated beer to the kegs.


I realize this isn’t the average starter kit for home brewing but with my current location I couldn’t resist making the most of it. Hopefully I can make some great tasting beer.


Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Aleforge]

First of all that's a hell of a beginner setup. Secondly I feel like it might be a little ambitious to start out with thirdly I have no answers. LOL. I just kind of wished you nailed down the ground zero process before leaping so high but to each their own.

 

[mongoose33]

Hi,


I have read all I can from faq, books, forums and YouTube.

Can you get a copy of Palmer's "How to Brew"? It's probably (IMO) the best beginning reference, plus it has higher level information as well.

This time I am going all out. I have a new 65L kettle( with built in pump etc) and a 65L conical unitank (with built in glycol system).

(I’m currently living in China so these can be obtained domestically very cheap!) pics attached.

Wow. Like @Aleforge I wonder if it might be worth starting a little slower, doing some smaller batches, learning the ropes before you leap without a net.

I plan to make IPA initially and most likely some wheat beer in the future.

I'd like to suggest you make a simple recipe the first couple of times. The more complicated, the more that can go wrong and the harder it is to track down the error(s).

Something like a basic ale would be good.

1. Clean and sterilize everything!

YES

1. Make the malt

Do you mean the mash? Not clear here.

1. Boil

Yes

1. Add hops

This is part of the boil, unless you dry-hop where you also add hops during or after fermentation.

1. Cool wort

Yes

1. Transfer via cooling pipe to fermenter (fermenter pre cooled to yeast required temp)

Yes

1. Airate with bubble stone with O2

Yes. You can buy an aeration wand for this, though with your setup you probably need something inline. Can't tell if you have a valve that would let you add and then remove an O2 stone.

1. Pitch yeast when wort at correct temp

Yes

1. Seal with pressure valve set to around 12psi (unsure?!)

No. You want to allow the fermenter to "breathe" and off-gas CO2. Some do pressure fermenting but that should come later if you decide to do it. Don't do it unless you have a specific reason, and you're sure your equipment can handle it.

1. Drop yeast from Cornical.

Maybe. If you're planning to save it. Not necessary if you have a good source for yeast.

1. Add dry hops. (What’s the best way in a pressure fermenter?)

I'd avoid that for your first couple of brews. You put them in and those of us who do that will have positive CO2 pressure going into the fermenter so it's blowing past the hops as we add them.

1. Force carbonate with bubble stone( is this needed if pressure fermented)

Yes, you'll need to add carbonation. You can't get to the level you want at fermentation temps.

1. Cold crush in fermenter. ( apparently it can cool to around 3 degrees C.)

Cold crash. yes.

1. Pressure transfer to kegs.

Yes.

As I am hoping to pressure ferment to reduce oxygen contamination I have a few questions.

You won't have any oxygen issues if you just let the blowoff shed CO2 to the outside. A typical batch might produce 20-25 volumes of CO2 (a volume meaning equivalent to the batch size, say, 5 gallons). Terminate the blowoff tube in a jar of Star-San. Or use an airlock.

Pressure fermenting makes the yeast work differently than normally expected. As noted, I'd stay away from that initially if I were you.

I would ideally like to “finish” the beer in the unibody and then transfer finished carbonated beer to the kegs.

You can do this by carbonating after you crash the temp, depends on how you pressurize the fermenter as to how long it will take.

I realize this isn’t the average starter kit for home brewing but with my current location I couldn’t resist making the most of it. Hopefully I can make some great tasting beer.

It's just hard to recommend that this is how you should start out. Not saying not to have purchased it, just that there are a lot of moving parts in brewing and when you add the complexity you have, it'll make things harder to master initially.

I use a stainless conical, do electric brewing, I have a fairly advanced setup for home brewing, and yours is at least as complicated if not more so. I had about 50 batches under my belt before I started using the SS conical fermenter and using pumps and such to move things around, plus a RIMS system to control mash temps and recirculation. It took me a half-dozen times before I had everything worked out. And remember, I have some experience.

The key here is understanding the brewing process so you can duplicate it with your equipment.

Do you have anyone locally who can help you out, act as a mentor, show you the ropes, allow you to watch them brew, or anything like that?

 

[Alex4mula]

You just will need more time reading here. Take a topic (ex: yest pitch) and search and read it. Then another (Conical setup), etc. I did a lot of that before i went into a shopping spree. not as big nor fancy but I knew more or less like 90% of the process without reading any book. Youtube is another great resource. I would say with my very little experience that the mash and yeast pitching are probably where more questions will come. Good luck!

 

[CascadesBrewer]

My suggestions would be:

1. Brew an extract batch to get some feel for your system and the brewing process. Brewing an extract beer is at least 75% the same as doing a grain batch. You could do a full batch or a half batch.
2. If things go well, brew a similar beer as an all-grain batch.
3. Understand that you will not get everything perfect on your first batch...or your tenth batch. Brewing is a constant state of learning and striving to improve.
4. To build off #3, add stuff like "fermenting under pressure" to your backlog of things to learn. I don't know anybody that does that and I don't know the benefits. I do know that there are a lot of things that do have a direct impact on the quality of your beer (fermentation temp control, yeast management, sanitization, recipe creation, water treatment and mash pH, etc.).

 

[Dmacnnz]

Thanks for the feed back guys!
All duely noted.
I will keep it reading... sounds like dropping the pressure fermenting idea initially seems to be the general consensus.
This would also make dry hopping easier.
I have a 40L extract kit arriving any day to start things off.
Maybe new plan will be to carbonate in unitank after fermentation. And then rack.
The only reason I have ended up with such a elaborate setup. I was looking into a grainfather or something similar but as Due to my current location this is the same price as a basic grainfather (without fermenter!)
I have read the first edition of “how to brew”. I best get ahold of the new version.

 

[wepeeler]

Can you get a copy of Palmer's "How to Brew"? It's probably (IMO) the best beginning reference, plus it has higher level information as well.

It's online
http://howtobrew.com/

 

[mongoose33]

It's online
http://howtobrew.com/

Yeah, but it's the first edition. However, given his location, maybe that's the best option.

 

[Dmacnnz]

Thanks guys have got ahold of the second edition!

 

[Qhrumphf]

If dry hop even partly carbed beer through the top, you're gonna have a bad time.

Happen to see the "it's only beer" geyser video from a pro brewery making the rounds on social media maybe a month ago?

That's what happens when you dry hop even partly carbonated beer.

There's a way to dry hop under pressure. Basically put dry hops into a brink, pull beer in from racking arm to suspend the hops, then force the slurry back through the racking arm. Even at the scale you're working with it probably isn't practical. And doing it in a way that's both sanitary and not introducing oxygen is challenging.

It's a huge PITA.

 

[Qhrumphf]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...ook.com/worstbeerblog/videos/275327009996023/

 

[Dmacnnz]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=275327009996023&id=1509416335952933&refsrc=https://m.facebook.com/worstbeerblog/videos/275327009996023/

Thanks

 

[Qhrumphf]

Assuming that is a unitank, which it appears to be, you can do a few things.

Common best practice is to let it bubble into a blowoff first, and then close off the fermentation when it's *almost* done, a couple points above final gravity. This will generate most if not all the pressure needed for carbonation (especially if it can hold more than 1 bar), as well as keep pressure when crashing so you don't pull a vacuum (and oxygen).

If you don't want to dry hop under pressure, I would dry hop immediately before you cap. Will keep any volatile loss from nucleation inside. You still want to work quickly.

You've got a setup to do things right. Most homebrewers do not, and common homebrew bad practices (cold crashing not under pressure a big one) is completely avoidable.

You can also truly ferment under pressure. I would set it to 3-5 PSI at first, not 12.

Some yeasts do not like it. Some will quit entirely. And it will suppress esters. Yeast-forward beers (Belgian and English) historically did the opposite and fermented open. It does work well for lagers (though maybe not all strains).

 

[Qhrumphf]

Oh, and that's the nano-scale BIAB setup (with the latter B meaning "basket" instead of "bag" as practiced with smaller batches).

There's an entire BIAB section of this forum.

Once you get your initial legs, I would direct attention there.

 

[Tagobolts]

The good news is you got the expensive stuff out of the way! I would say jump in and do it.

Make some mistakes, document, learn from them. I would also suggest, to do some of the stuff you will probably not do in the future, IE bottle your first batch, don't cold crash, some of those things.

Also, what issues did you have with failed attempts?